How do you know what standard to hold them to?

[Renee in NC]

I have been homeschooling for 6-7 years officially. I have a 10yo that will be in the 5th grade this year, a 7yo first grader, an almost 6yo Ker, and a 4yo PKer.

 

I did not expect enough out of my 10yo and allowed him to develop some bad habits. Namely, I did not require him to write or to do things that were difficult for him. This has to end, but I don't know what is reasonable to expect. We are doing Calvert 5 Scholastic this year which might be a stretch - he hasn't done much writing because it was so "hard".:glare:

 

His handwriting is really bad, but if he *tries* then it is much better. Should I make him re-do things that are not neat?

 

How long do I make him keep trying at something? Sometimes he will spend hours doing something I know he can do, but he doesn't want to put forth any effort.

 

Will he live to see 11?:lol:

[Sunshine State Sue]

His handwriting is really bad, but if he *tries* then it is much better. Should I make him re-do things that are not neat?

 

How long do I make him keep trying at something? Sometimes he will spend hours doing something I know he can do, but he doesn't want to put forth any effort.

 

Will he live to see 11?:lol:

With 20/20 hindsight, we should have taught ds manuscript writing properly back in K or 1st. Since we didn't, last year (6th grade), we had to do remedial manuscript handwriting. We used Write Now and had handwriting every day. He had to relearn how to form the letters properly. Mostly, he started at the bottom. Towards the end of the year, his daily handwriting was from work that was illegible. He eventually learned that if he made it legible the first time, there would be no handwriting that day. His manuscript is still not fabulous, but it is much better.

 

BTW, dh taught ds cursive in 2nd grade and his cursive is very nice.

 

And to offer you some hope, 6th grade was our best year ever. I don't know if ds is maturing or just figuring out that things go faster if he doesn't stop to butt heads. Maybe it's the same thing. :blink:

 

Good luck!

[Greta Lea]

The only writing with a pencil that my older son did at that age was dictation. We didn't do any creative writing (although he IS creative) and we did ORAL narration only. But that is the year he started learning to type (or maybe he was 11yo).

 

He is now 14 1/2yo and TYPES all his school work *and* has just started writing (typing:) his first book!

 

When I say he types everything for school, I mean everything. Last year, he used SOTW vol. 4. Instead of filling in the outline worksheet with a pencil, he typed what was on the worksheet (or sometimes I'd type that part for him to save time, since I still type faster than him), then he'd type in the missing parts from the outline. Any written narrations were typed. Science vocabulary, notes and answers to study questions were typed.

 

Once he could type pretty well, he completely stopped complaining about school work. I mean COMPLETELY stopped!

[Renee in NC]

I didn't hold him to proper manuscript formation either - hence the illegible handwriting now.

 

I think I just have to be tough - I've told him that 5th grade "steps up" quite a bit, so he is expecting things to be harder. He even wants to hold to the Calvert schedule in the manual - even though that means that he may have "homework" to do on his own time in order to finish.

 

I want this to be a successful year - even if it is painful for him.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

I didn't hold him to proper manuscript formation either - hence the illegible handwriting now.

 

I think I just have to be tough - I've told him that 5th grade "steps up" quite a bit, so he is expecting things to be harder. He even wants to hold to the Calvert schedule in the manual - even though that means that he may have "homework" to do on his own time in order to finish.

 

I want this to be a successful year - even if it is painful for him.

 

BTDT.

 

I bought another HWT Cursive workbook (he's been through it once already). I give him the option of completing his R&S grammar work in print/manuscript AND then he gets to do the HWT workbook, OR he can complete it neatly and in cursive and not have to do the HWT workbook. You can guess what he chooses.

 

He learned to type a few years back and does all his IEW drafts and finals on the computer.

 

BTW, my friend's with kids in junior high would love to have their kids typing because the teacher's preferred typed reports.

[BlueGator]

 

How long do I make him keep trying at something? Sometimes he will spend hours doing something I know he can do, but he doesn't want to put forth any effort.

 

Will he live to see 11?:lol:

 

I had these issues with DS in K,1 & 2 grades. Handwriting was a nightmare. Most of the problem was that he would not pick up the pencil. :confused:

 

I think it was a perfectionism and iron will issue. I spoke to several Physical Therapists about it. They told me to do a little everyday. It has slowly slowly gotten better.

 

He turned 9 this summer. A consistent routine made it easier. If he knew he could get out of it... well you know the drill. ;)

 

Last year, (3RD grade) he dictated his English Comp assignments to me. I'd type them into the computer. But he was becoming dependent on me because inadvertently I was doing the grammer and spelling.

 

I just got a typing program from www.timberdoodle.com for his writing (not handwriting) assignments and history. I told him if he learns to type he doesn't have to write out the sentences for history, English and composition. He really likes it so far.

 

I bought a Disney typing program on E-Bay several years ago that he hated. The new one works at a slower pace and you can repeat and practice the first key stokes for much longer. The Disney Program introduced, practiced then went to the next set of keys. It was too fast and it frustrated him.

 

I hope someone can use something that I wrote. The handwriting thing was huge for us. It has gotten better but it probably will not be his favorite.

 

He picked out the following. I found he likes clean simple pages that don't have to much on them.

 

We use:

Printing - Handwriting without Tears,

Cursive - D'Nealian

Basic Drawing Shapes - Draw Write Now

[VickyKinLA]

I haven't read all of the replies on this post yet, but this topic is very interesting to me. When my two oldest children were homeschooling I focused alot on their weaknesses. For instance, my ds was very weak in writing but above average in math. I focused on bringing his writing up to what "I thought" was average, and kept him at grade level in math. I did the opposite with my ds who was strong in Language arts and weak in math. I regret doing this, because I don't think it helped either. Both are still weak in their weaknesses, and still do well in their strong areas. But I wonder what they could've done in their strong areas if I had given them more time and let them prosper a bit more.

I've changed the way I do things with my younger son. He's strong in math, and weak in writing like his older brother. But this time, I accept "good enough" in language arts, and push him a bit harder in math and science.

 

I don't think any of us really ever find that happy medium in what we expect from our children. But, that's my goal.

[EKS]

We are doing this too. This next year (7th grade) I will have my son type just about everything. And I am also making worksheets from the questions in his textbooks. This has another benefit in that I can eliminate or add questions as I see fit. I can also reword poorly written questions.

 

I figure that the more typing he does the easier it will be. I am hoping that by the end of 7th grade (and certainly by the end of 8th) that typing is fast and efficient for him.

[BlueGator]

But I wonder what they could've done in their strong areas if I had given them more time and let them prosper a bit more.

 

I wondered that all the time too.

 

I think as a HS teacher / Mom, you and DH need to determine a baseline that is acceptable. I don't know what that is for everyone, in our house I wanted him to write his name, address, the date and a sentence legibly.

 

He picked up reading on his own and would have read all day if he could. If you can read really well but can not express yourself or the idea in writing, I think that could hold you back in a literature or reading intensive career.

[melmac]

But... I have always heard that boys writing skills really begin to take off at this age if you start slowly requiring more and more from them. So that's what I'll be doing.

 

I just started using WWE this past week and we're going to go through it at a faster pace,( because this is remedial work for a boy who has done just about all subjects except math and handwriting practice orally until now).This way I will know we've covered all the steps.

 

Once we get through it I'll put him into WS 3 which we already have, it has a great introduction addressed to the child telling him/her that it's time for him/her to start doing this stuff on their own in a very encouraging and slow way. I think the first lesson has the child write 2 or 3 words and progresses from there.

 

I'm hoping that this time next year he'll be on level of where he should be.

 

HTH :)

[LisaKinVA]

I have raised our standards for ds writing each and every year. At first, he narrated, or answered everything orally -- during the 3rd grade I started clamping down. He has beautiful penmanship - but balked at actually using it. He'd turn in sloppy work, and I started making him write it over (even had an eraser, and I'd simply erase the messy work and demand that he write it neatly -- he COULD do it, the issue was he didn't want to).

 

My son does have some issues -- mostly that his brain is faster than his hand. He is learning to type, and I allow him to type *everything* that is composition and answers to literature questions (which require more thought).

 

I now *demand* that he use cursive for spelling, vocabulary and grammar (mostly fill in the blank type stuff, short answer). He may print science and history -- but it still *must* be neat. I'm also giving him penmanship grades.

 

Since I don't want to go through this again... my two younger school age children are both doing penmanship daily. youngest does printing, middle is doing cursive. My goal for the Ker is that he simply begin holding the pencil correctly and form his letters correctly. We do go over things, and I remind both of them when they write numbers backwards (we do number writing practice daily too).

 

Our motto? "Do it right the first time." I don't expect perfection, just a willingness to do their best every day.

 

FWIW, my oldest's handwriting in all subjects has improved in the past year (and this child had beautiful penmanship as a 1st grader too -- just didn't "want" to use it.)

 

So, first I would say -- is the issue an "I don't want to" or an "I don't know how to." If it's the first one, you can pull the mean-mommy and refuse to accept the work. If it's the later, I'd suggest working on the issue, and only be demanding in one or two areas (short answer, fill in the blank), and make the goal that he do his best all the time.

 

Learning to type is excellent... but there may be times (college exams, high school exams, SATs) that the child will *have* to write essays by hand -- and have them be legible.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Peela]

I was warned several years ago by a friend with a teenage boy, to keep my son writing because once they get to 14 or 15, and they haven't written much, although i am sure a few will blossom- many parents have by then "lost control". My friend's son went to school because he would no longer do anything for his mother.

 

I have kept my son writing daily for 5 years- however, not much a day, and he would always know how much was expected- I couldnt spring more on him. At age 10, it was very little, but it was consistent. We did a lot of his work orally. He would do copywork OR dictation daily, just a couple of lines. Then he would have to write 3 times a week on something, a written narration.

 

The thing is, my son's handwriting didn't get much better if he tried hard. I realised he was doing his best. He was a very, very reluctant writer but my approach was consistent, daily, small amounts of writing. I also allowed him to type anything longer than a couple of lines.

 

Now, you wouldn't know this child. He is 12.5, his handwriting is beautiful, and he types page long assignments several times a week, sometimes longer. He is taking some pride in his work at last. he voluntarily handwrites paragraphs at times.

 

So, I can just say I am happy with the way I have handled his situation, and I have received a lot of positive feedback from educational people at how I have handled things.

[Snickerdoodle]

I was warned several years ago by a friend with a teenage boy, to keep my son writing

 

<snip>

 

I have kept my son writing daily for 5 years

 

<snip>

 

 

Now, you wouldn't know this child. He is 12.5, his handwriting is beautiful, and he types page long assignments several times a week, sometimes longer. He is taking some pride in his work at last. he voluntarily handwrites paragraphs at times.

 

 

That is very good to hear. My son hates writing too. He's only 7 but I do require an increasing amount of writing each year to a point. It's not a lot, but it is daily. I hope we have the same experience you do.

 

Also, I think typing is a great skill that all kids should learn.

[Janice in NJ]

I too haven't had the time to read all of the responses, but I would have him do a short "penmanship" assignment every day if that's an issue. BEFORE he starts, set a goal - give him ONE thing to work on for this assignment. "Watch your letters that drop below the line. Try to make them as consistent as possible. Ready. Set. Go. YOU CAN DO IT!!!!" Encourage him to focus and work as quickly and neatly as possible. Then ask him to self-evaluate. "So, how did you do? Which one is your best? Which one is your worst?" (Offered with a warm smile!!!!) But I would seriously work in the direction of a short, focused effort.

 

Teaching my kids to see ONE tree instead of the whole, impossible forest was the key. Focus on one thing. And then the biggest step was to move them immediately into the direction of self-evaluation!!!! That's makes the biggest difference - because THEY are responsible for their work. (I have spent YEARS trying to teach my kids that they aren't doing me a favor by doing their work!!!! It's THEIR work. I'm doing THEM a favor by helping them to do their best! LONG STORY there.... slow but steady wins the race... but that shifting of their mind-set is making a BIG difference in their lives over the course of years. MOM is not the slave-driver here. They aren't serving ME; they're serving themselves. And what do you know? THEY aren't getting a very good product, now are they???????:001_smile: Hmm.... so how do you plan to self-correct in order to get what you want out of yourself, eh? :001_smile::001_smile:)

 

Work on one thing with penmanship every day. Praise effort! Slowly work on character issues that impede effort (That's parenting, not homeschooling.... I know, I know... bummer! Hard work that "heart issue" stuff. As far as my expectations go, I try to pray that God will help me to see the line between what the child is capable of and what would be unkind. Tough stuff, I know. But then - I suspect that hsing has taught me to rely on God more than ever! So that's good! Life lessons for the momma..... now there's another loooooooooong post!)

 

Writing is another thing entirely. I FORCE my kids to make changes in their writing. NO first draft is EVER neat around here. :001_smile: I have tried to teach my kids that "Good writers make changes!" So they KNOW that their first draft is almost never their final draft. Getting those typing skills happening was a BIG help.

 

Gotta dash!

Have fun!

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey