Starting WWS next week, reworking LA

[Stuart]

I have debated this for a while. I was waiting to start till next year but I'm tired of looking for the perfect filler program. We are working in WWE4 and my son is ready for more. Slow and steady I think this will be the right program for us.

 

We will continue to work through the rest of FLL4 which I am milking. After that we will go light on grammar for a year maybe LLATL tan and a diagramming review book. My kid loves to diagram. Then for 6,7,8 we will go to AG. He is naturally strong in grammar and doesn't require much review. I will use our time to work on writing(of course that is applying the grammar)

 

I'm dropping formal spelling because my child benefits more by being exposed to words. We will use this time to read more.

I don't think I will start a vocabulary program yet his reading is strong and he absorbs a lot from that.

 

I think that covers it all. I feel confident is all my choices except grammar. What I need is a program that is planned out, I like the confidence FLL gives me to teach and the open and go nature. I need open and go with my work schedule. I don't mind teacher intensive, he's my one and only. What he does not need is a lot of review. He is a very fast learner and gets frustrated with repetition. I know it seems contrary to FLL but I modify for him. Most of the instruction is for me, I like it. He likes it but is getting to the end of his patience with it.

I've looked into:

Hake to repetitious

R&S Can't get past the religion

KISS really want to like this but don't

MCT ditto above, I have a very strong feeling every time I go to the site it will not work for us. My son has seen the program IRL and has no interest.

VIE $$$

 

Any opinions or options I haven't considered appreciated.

[5LittleMonkeys]

Well, they aren't really planned out...more just do the next thing type books, but if you want something that will discuss grammar within the context of writing you might want to look at the Killgallon books. I love them and my dc do to. They don't feel like "grammar" instruction. They are wonderful for dc who like to play around with words and sentence structure, but also work well for dc who are a bit phobic about those things too. For your son I would recommend the middle school books.

[Stuart]

Thanks I will take a look at that.

[skimomma]

Stuart,

 

Thanks for posting this. We are in a very similar situation and I just might swipe your plan:) Do you have any recommendations for a diagramming review book?

[Stuart]

I think we are going to try the recommendations in the WTM. This one to start http://www.rainbowre...l.php?id=ELDGPK its a little pricey so I'm still considering other options.

 

I also might get the CLE guide to diagramming to check out. It is much cheaper.

[MicheleinMN]

Higher Lessons in English http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/7188

Mother Tongue II http://archive.org/details/mothertongueboo00arnogoog

[Stuart]

Thanks Michele I will check those out.

[fourisenough]

http://www.amazon.co...es garlic press

 

How about this for Grammar? It is what Classical Conversations recommends for grammar for advanced practice after the grammar book they use for 4th-6th graders (Our Mother Tongue).

 

ETA: Please report back after you've got a few weeks of WWS under your belts. I'd love to hear how your son does with it, as I suspect we may be in a similar situation a year from now.

[nansk]

Three options to consider:

1. JAG

2. Steps to Good Grammar

3. Diagramming Sentences

[skimomma]

 

 

ETA: Please report back after you've got a few weeks of WWS under your belts. I'd love to hear how your son does with it, as I suspect we may be in a similar situation a year from now.

 

 

I second this:) I have WWS on its way right now and we might also stop WWE4 and start WWS. WWE is not really a challenge and I feel like we are just going through the motions. I am a little scared after reading accounts from people with older kids struggling with WWS. I figure we are either making a big mistake starting it early or it will help to start early so we can take it really slow. Not sure which:)

[Dana]

 

I second this:) I have WWS on its way right now and we might also stop WWE4 and start WWS.

 

We did all of WWE 2 and 3. We did the textbook for WWE 4 (so just 4 or 5 weeks, skipping through the year). Then we started WWS. It's been fine here. We don't cover a week in a week... it does take longer, especially with the writing assignments which we generally spread over 2-3 days, especially because I have my son write his essay one day, then type and revise it the next day before submitting it to me. He's 10.

[Chrysalis Academy]

 

We did all of WWE 2 and 3. We did the textbook for WWE 4 (so just 4 or 5 weeks, skipping through the year). Then we started WWS. It's been fine here. We don't cover a week in a week... it does take longer, especially with the writing assignments which we generally spread over 2-3 days, especially because I have my son write his essay one day, then type and revise it the next day before submitting it to me. He's 10.

 

 

Ditto here. We did the first 10 weeks of WWS in the spring of 4th grade, we're doing the middle of it in 5th grade (including poetry and literary analysis) and saving Research and the final Project for the beginning of 6th grade. It's great. If you go at your younger child's pace, and don't load them up with too much other writing, it is doable for young, strong writers who are ready for more than WWE.

[Stuart]

Thanks for all the ideas. I didn't know diagramming sentences was available through currclicks as a download. I have it in my amazon cart,waiting for $25 to accumulate so I can get free shipping :)

I think I will try that and this Grammar & Diagramming Sentences (Advanced Straight Forward English Series)

Nan DeVincent Hayes to start.

 

Tomorrow is start day I am excited and nervous but hearing from others is helpful. We will go as slowly as we need to. I have no intention of following the day to day weekly schedule. We will just chug along slow and steady. For now I will not require any additional writing. I'm hoping that by Sept I will be able to add some content writing but I will not rush that. I will also work with him. I do not expect independence yet.

I will post to let you know how we are doing and anything I have found useful.

 

[Murrayshire]

Have you looked at GWG?

For 5th, we are going to try Jr. Analytical Grammar......my older DD is going through her second season right now and is happy with it! Hopefully my middle dc will feel the same....

[RootAnn]

I started WWS yesterday with my not-as-allergic-to-the-pencil-as-she-once-was dd#1. Glad for the easy intro as Day 1 & Day 2 have been quick & painless. She's definitely in the designed-for-age-range, but is likely to run into the frustration / throw-the-book-across-the-room attitude at some point. I figure we'll take a break when we need to, but chug through some of it during the summer. I don't have the heart to pick CW Homer back up right now.

[Dana]

I do find with WWS that on the essay days, having read a book or two on the writing topic is helpful... That additional background information does help with the essay.

[Kendall]

I second the Mother Tongue II that Michele mentioned. I downloaded the pdf(free) and then when I need pages I print in the print to fit option. This makes the text bigger. This is a rigorous book, but it does not include diagramming. I've used Rod and Staff which I felt is very thorough and rigorous, but MT 2 is harder. I like that it uses real sentences and lines from poetry. Shakespeare, DeFoe, lots of poets, etc. Interestingly enough, my daughter that really struggles in school started finally getting some of the parts of speech when we used this harder book. I think it was because she had to really understand it. When the sentences are written or adapted to fit the current grammatical concept, then it is easier to pick out the parts without really understanding. This seems to be the case in most modern grammar texts. The "real" sentences used in MT 2 made guessing the write word impossible, especially in the poetry lines where word order won't help you either.

[Kendall]

I just reread your post. I guess MT 2 is open and go(I never prep), but it doesn't have an answer key. It can be teacher intensive because I have to wrestle with some of the answers and since the sentences aren't easy I have to help the child.

[Stuart]

2 week down. So far it has been successful. He's very good at narrating but can be a little wordy. He doesnt include too much detail he just doesnt know how to write a cause and effect sentence efficiently. We talked a lot about that. He likes to outline and does a great job with it.

Grammar we are still chugging away at FLL. Today he told me he will be sad when it end. He asked if we could do it again. Thanks everyone for the suggestion I am continuing to look them over. No choice yet.

I am using oral narration, copy work and dictation in our science and history reading. Doing this I feel like I cover reading comprehension,

penmanship, spelling and grammar review. My plan would be to move to outlining and summaries when he is ready.

I'm definitely glad I chose to start now instead of waiting.

[skimomma]

2 week down. So far it has been successful. He's very good at narrating but can be a little wordy. He doesnt include too much detail he just doesnt know how to write a cause and effect sentence efficiently. We talked a lot about that. He likes to outline and does a great job with it.

Grammar we are still chugging away at FLL. Today he told me he will be sad when it end. He asked if we could do it again. Thanks everyone for the suggestion I am continuing to look them over. No choice yet.

I am using oral narration, copy work and dictation in our science and history reading. Doing this I feel like I cover reading comprehension,

penmanship, spelling and grammar review. My plan would be to move to outlining and summaries when he is ready.

I'm definitely glad I chose to start now instead of waiting.

 

 

I am still watching this thread. We started WWS this past week too and so far, so good. I know it ramps up but we will just take it slow. Dd also struggles with too many words and difficulty understanding what should be included in the same sentence....cause-and-effect style. I don't think I did a good job of explaining this is WWE so we might have to repeat the first few weeks with different passages until this is easier. I do find it comical that she pulls out all of her FLL tools to try to cram as much into a sentence as possible. I have never seen so many semi-colons from a 4th grader!

 

We also are just weeks away from finishing FLL4. I have Analytical Grammar in hand now and am thinking about starting it when FLL is done....maybe a month on and a month off....or something like that. I have not yet found a diagramming curriculum that I think will be a hit, is secular, and does not cost a fortune. Between slow progress with Analytical Grammar and Latin for Children C, we should be OK.

 

I am very close to tossing spelling all together. We both find it boring. I think I may just start a spelling notebook and have dd write down words she misses in other topics. Perhaps do some light practice with those words and "graduate" them out of the notebook when she becomes proficient. If anyone has better ideas, I am all ears. We just cannot devote a daily 15 minutes to something we both hate so much......

[Stuart]

I have never seen so many semi-colons from a 4th grader!

 

We just cannot devote a daily 15 minutes to something we both hate so much......

 

 

 

My son is also a huge fan of the semi-colon. LOL Your child sounds exactly like mine. Let me know how AG goes when you start. That has plenty of diagramming so you wouldn't need anything else.

Spelling ugh I stopped our program he didn't hate it but he was learning zero. It was an exercise in get it done and never in 15 min, my kid is SLOW. Probably because he's board because when I challenge him he works faster and harder. For now we are using our copy work, dictation and writing to cover spelling. We started a notebook but I'm not sure there will be enough there. So far we have 2 words. Of course I feel like if we completely drop spelling it will come back to bit us in the butt. I still feel in my gut more reading time is most beneficial to this child so I am sticking to my gut for now. My husband says I worry for no reason he already writes better than most people. He never worries, wish I could do that.

Good luck and keep me updated it sound like we are running very similar course.

[Stuart]

I have never seen so many semi-colons from a 4th grader!

 

We just cannot devote a daily 15 minutes to something we both hate so much......

 

 

 

My son is also a huge fan of the semi-colon. LOL Your child sounds exactly like mine. Let me know how AG goes when you start. That has plenty of diagramming so you wouldn't need anything else.

Spelling ugh I stopped our program he didn't hate it but he was learning zero. It was an exercise in get it done and never in 15 min, my kid is SLOW. Probably because he's board because when I challenge him he works faster and harder. For now we are using our copy work, dictation and writing to cover spelling. We started a notebook but I'm not sure there will be enough there. So far we have 2 words. Of course I feel like if we completely drop spelling it will come back to bit us in the butt. I still feel in my gut more reading time is most beneficial to this child so I am sticking to my gut for now. My husband says I worry for no reason he already writes better than most people. He never worries, wish I could do that.

Good luck and keep me updated it sound like we are running very similar course.

[skimomma]

 

 

My son is also a huge fan of the semi-colon. LOL Your child sounds exactly like mine. Let me know how AG goes when you start. That has plenty of diagramming so you wouldn't need anything else.

Spelling ugh I stopped our program he didn't hate it but he was learning zero. It was an exercise in get it done and never in 15 min, my kid is SLOW. Probably because he's board because when I challenge him he works faster and harder. For now we are using our copy work, dictation and writing to cover spelling. We started a notebook but I'm not sure there will be enough there. So far we have 2 words. Of course I feel like if we completely drop spelling it will come back to bit us in the butt. I still feel in my gut more reading time is most beneficial to this child so I am sticking to my gut for now. My husband says I worry for no reason he already writes better than most people. He never worries, wish I could do that.

Good luck and keep me updated it sound like we are running very similar course.

 

 

I will keep you updated. I think we have about 3 weeks of FLL left before we will start AG.

 

We are in the exact same spelling place and I also think what we are doing is a waste of time. Dd is so bored with it and really, she is a natural speller so most of the words are just "going through the motions." This hampers our ability to really get anything out of the exercise. I notice that the few words she struggles with do not improve from our spelling efforts. They only improve in application when she is required to go look up the word in the dictionary. There is no motivation to get a word correct during spelling.....but she is VERY motivated to not have to drag the huge dictionary out in the middle of writing something. So, I am just in the "why bother?" camp right now. I too fear it will bite us in the end but I try to keep it in perspective. She already spells better than most adults I know and there is always spell check if this really does "bite" her, right?

 

:glare:

 

I just hate to spend any amount of time doing something that she hates that seems to have very little return. I would never just toss math because we found it tedious, but for some reason I feel like four dedicated years of spelling just might be enough. For now anyway. I can always bring it back if we need to.