Article re: Competency based college

[Nscribe]

Sharing the following I read today:

http://www.educationnews.org/higher-education/could-competency-based-college-be-the-future-of-higher-ed/

[regentrude]

Two thoughts I had when I read the article:

1. Credit by examination is possible even at traditional colleges, awarding a student credit for demonstrated knowledge acquired by whatever means.

 

2. A college education is so much more than a series of passed exams.

[Nscribe]

That was my thinking as well.

 

I am increasingly a fan of some of the MOOCs and alternatives, because I see a value in diversifying what a college education might include. However, I suppose I am a traditionalist in thinking there is an experience to be gained by attending college for 4 years which has value.

[regentrude]

 

Not necessarily. For many people, college is merely a necessary stepping-stone into gainful employment. Whether or not the "college experience" is attained is immaterial to many people. It ultimately depends on the person's personal goals.

 

I said college education. Not college experience. Not college degree. These are three very different things.

I agree that one can obtain a degree simply by a series of passed exams, and that what is generally referred to as the college experience is not necessary.

[Jane in NC]

Not necessarily. For many people, college is merely a necessary stepping-stone into gainful employment. Whether or not the "college experience" is attained is immaterial to many people. It ultimately depends on the person's personal goals.

I would like to give a specific example of how the college experience can translate into the work place.

 

My husband is computer engineer who works in digital design for complex systems. Nothing is done in isolation. There are a couple hundred engineers on site where he works. The company enjoys having student interns on site in the summer in part to see how well these future engineers function in team based projects.

 

I do not know if there are any colleges that give credit to engineers by examination. It was my experience as an instructor of Mathematics at an engineering school that successful students formed study groups and participated in group engineering challenges. It would be very difficult for a person who has learned in isolation to find himself in an environment that demands group interaction. This means that sometimes one's "good" idea does not make it to fruition. One has to accept other ideas.

 

I say this with some trepidation as I also am an advocate of self-education. While I am a firm believer in life long learning, I also recognize that self education can have its limitations. As an example, I will bring up French which my son and I both studied together. Certainly we could study grammar, but there is so much nuance that we could never understand without occasional questions to experts. It would have been arrogant as well as ignorant for us to have insisted that our pronunciation of the French language was the correct one. To be honest, we did the best we could--with great enthusiasm on my part. But did this equate to a great French class? Nope. Yet it was better than what is offered at the local high school where there is no French at all.

 

I do think that the college experience--not the frats or the drunken idiots--but the experience of exchanging ideas with peers and rubbing elbows with experts is pretty hard to replicate via Internet. In some cases, the Internet is the best someone can do because of circumstances. Go for it. I wanted more than that for my kid.

[Nscribe]

I do think that the college experience--not the frats or the drunken idiots--but the experience of exchanging ideas with peers and rubbing elbows with experts is pretty hard to replicate via Internet. In some cases, the Internet is the best someone can do because of circumstances. Go for it. I wanted more than that for my kid.

 

 

Here is the thing I am wondering....do they need 4 years, on campus. I look at the developing tech options and I really wonder if we couldnt' have freshman do their first year at home. Or even do two years, with something like once a year intensives on campus. Just thinking...

[regentrude]

Here is the thing I am wondering....do they need 4 years, on campus. I look at the developing tech options and I really wonder if we couldnt' have freshman do their first year at home. Or even do two years, with something like once a year intensives on campus. Just thinking...

 

 

What about labs?

 

ETA: The tech options would have to develop a lot more to replicate what is the most effective way to do physics problem solving exercises in a group. So far, there is no substitute for a group of students working on a wall-to-wall chalkboard. Not paper, not tablets, not chat rooms.

The quality of work and interaction and learning you get when you bring the live students together in a room still surpasses what is possible through an online interaction.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Here is the thing I am wondering....do they need 4 years, on campus. I look at the developing tech options and I really wonder if we couldnt' have freshman do their first year at home. Or even do two years, with something like once a year intensives on campus. Just thinking...

 

 

I wonder the same thing. I have a young dd, we have a great cc nearby . . . I could see the last couple of years of high school and the first couple of years of college kind of merging together somewhat seamlessly, and then having her transfer to a 4-year institution as a junior. So, labs would be covered at the cc . . . There are so many more choices than there used to be. But I do worry about her missing . . . something.

[Nscribe]

What about labs?

 

ETA: The tech options would have to develop a lot more to replicate what is the most effective way to do physics problem solving exercises in a group. So far, there is no substitute for a group of students working on a wall-to-wall chalkboard. Not paper, not tablets, not chat rooms.

 

To the extent that students engage in labs in their first two years (I know I had a lot...but ), why couldn't they attend for a 5/6 week intensive of the labs.

 

What about the use of a Bamboo for online blackboarding, chat at bottom of screen. If you think about it, big screens for computers are getting cheaper everyday. You could easily have blackboard at top, student with video icons and their own bamboo entry areas at bottom. The cost of that set up to the student is a lot less than living on campus.

 

You are right, there are challenges and experiences that would be different, maybe better different, maybe worse different. The thing is I have seen such huge change in the way we all live in my life, I just can't dismiss that we don't have to educate the same way we always have to be effective.

[Nscribe]

But I do worry about her missing . . . something.

 

Check out this article fromt the Atlantic.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/02/heres-exactly-how-many-college-graduates-live-back-at-home/273529/

 

With percentages like those living at home after a 4 year experience, it just seems like sending them away so you have time to clean their rooms before they return or something.

[Jane in NC]

Here is the thing I am wondering....do they need 4 years, on campus. I look at the developing tech options and I really wonder if we couldnt' have freshman do their first year at home. Or even do two years, with something like once a year intensives on campus. Just thinking...

Look at the British system: three years that is focused on the major. None of the Liberal Arts requirements. This is one way of reducing time on campus.

 

My son is an Archaeology major at a small LAC. His school is a writing intensive college--every senior spends his last year writing a thesis. There are stepping stones that lead up to this. All first year students take a writing intensive course. This is not Freshman Comp 101. Many colleges now offer writing intensive courses across the curriculum. My son took his First Year Seminar in the Music department. The seminars are small with lots of input from the profs. I don't see how this could be duplicated in a virtual experience.

 

As a first year student, he took a 300 level course in his major. Group projects were an essential part of this Archaeological Methods course; it translated to a real life experience last summer when he was working on a dig in Britain. I would say that his first year experience was not only important academically but also emotionally. His peer group bonded in a familial sort of way. They really looked after each other and helped each other through sickness and other issues. Not every freshman has this sort of experience. Certainly other kids find "family" and self definition via other paths.

 

Part of the whole college experience should be expansion in general with an exposure to new ideas and new people. Our community college does not have students who come from around the world. My son's first year roommate was from Vietnam. Ho Chi Minh City is huge and tropical. What an adjustment this kid to Midwestern small town life! My son helped him negotiate it. Good experiences all around.

[regentrude]

To the extent that students engage in labs in their first two years (I know I had a lot...but ), why couldn't they attend for a 5/6 week intensive of the labs.

 

 

I am thinking of GOOD labs. labs that are in sync with their theoretical intro science courses, and that enhance the conceptual understanding of the material they are learning when they are learning it. So, doing all labs of the year at the end of the year would defeat the purpose.

(yes, I know, lots of labs are not well designed to meet this objective).

 

What about the use of a Bamboo for online blackboarding, chat at bottom of screen. If you think about it, big screens for computers are getting cheaper everyday. You could easily have blackboard at top, student with video icons and their own bamboo entry areas at bottom. The cost of that set up to the student is a lot less than living on campus.

 

 

I am not familiar with the software. So basically every participant can write and draw on the blackboard, simultaneously? No typing of formulas, but hand writing and sketching? A large enough area so a whole problem fits on the screen?

How would that work if the trend goes to portable small devices?

 

You are right, there are challenges and experiences that would be different, maybe better different, maybe worse different. The thing is I have seen such huge change in the way we all live in my life, I just can't dismiss that we don't have to educate the same way we always have to be effective.

 

 

Oh, I absolutely believe in progress. I can replicate a lot of presence-things using the computer and can improve many things. There are just a few areas where I have not seen a demonstration of a technological solution that is better than the old fashioned technology.

We discuss this frequently among colleagues. Many of us theorists work themselves on a huge board if they get stuck - there is something about size and spatial organization that makes things click.

 

Lastly, one thing that is a bit elusive is atmosphere. Anybody who teaches knows that a room full of people develops a specific atmosphere and "vibe" as the audience members relate to each other and to the instructor. It is almost tangible and definitely varies form group to group, even if it the identical course. I wonder how much of an atmosphere is lost when classes are viewed at home by individuals at a time of their chosing - it is like the difference between a live theatre performance and a video of the same show; something is lost.

For the instructor, the unspoken feedback that comes through the atmosphere in the room is very important; this is lost for instructors who "perform" in front of hardly a handful of people because the lecture is recorded and will be watched by the rest of the class at a later point. It works, but there is something lost. I know that I, as an extrovert, need to have a live audience to fully engage as a lecturer; I could not muster the enthusiasm and energy if I had to do that in front of an empty room because the students are at home. (Actually, come to think of: I would stop probably teaching because it would not be any more fun.)

[Nscribe]

Our community college does not have students who come from around the world. My son's first year roommate was from Vietnam. Ho Chi Minh City is huge and tropical. What an adjustment this kid to Midwestern small town life! My son helped him negotiate it. Good experiences all around.

 

 

This is the experience that has so many schools work so hard at creating diverse entering classes. For the students who take advantage of what this offers it can be amazing. But, I can see where they could come to know each other online in the first couple of years before they mingle face to face the last two. This is a generation that can begin to know the world via the keyboard if they wish. Again, just thinking...

[Jane in NC]

Check out this article fromt the Atlantic.

http://www.theatlant...at-home/273529/

 

With percentages like those living at home after a 4 year experience, it just seems like sending them away so you have time to clean their rooms before they return or something.

 

In my opinion, the current economic climate does not invalidate a college education.

 

My dear friend Nan in Mass has used the term "family culture" in these sorts of discussions. I did not know when my son was born if he would be college material but I assumed he would go. My husband and I met in graduate school--education is important in our family. So my baby's college fund was opened within a month or two of his birth. I was the mean mother who funneled the five dollar bills in birthday cards as well as the $25 Christmas checks into his accounts. How many cheap plastic toys or videos did the kid need anyway?

 

So far, he is debt free but that is because of his merit scholarship, his parent's frugality and his minimal lifestyle. Some kids buy into school names and will attend despite the cost. I have no sympathy for them. I do have sympathy for those kids who have not been well counseled in decision making--for example, those who do not have the aptitude for certain majors yet are pressured into them by family. It is not surprising when they drop out of college after a year or two of sheer misery.

[Jane in NC]

This is a generation that can begin to know the world via the keyboard if they wish. Again, just thinking...

Boy, do I get that! My son is attached at the virtual hip to a girl across the pond. But they met in person first... The long distance relationship has been redefined by Skype.

[Nscribe]

I am not familiar with the software. So basically every participant can write and draw on the blackboard, simultaneously? No typing of formulas, but hand writing and sketching? A large enough area so a whole problem fits on the screen?

How would that work if the trend goes to portable small devices?

 

 

 

.....For the instructor, the unspoken feedback that comes through the atmosphere in the room is very important; this is lost for instructors who "perform" in front of hardly a handful of people because the lecture is recorded and will be watched by the rest of the class at a later point.

 

I need to play with quotes so that I can respond neatly like you!

 

Yes, the tech allows you to be incredibly detailed. My daughter has been using it for years and it just keeps getting better. She uses it for art and design, learned from an inker who used it to collaborate coast to coast with writers.

 

 

I have taught , and do a great deal of public speaking. It is as you describe, we agree. The thing is we have way too many kids going to college, assuming loads of debt and finishing with degrees they struggle to apply in the marketplace. Worse we have far too many who go, assume the debt and don't finish. I am very interested in finding ways to end those trends. I don't love Skyping, I love speaking in public and working in groups. But, Dd is coming along in a different world and they are learning in ways that are different. I suspect we may not have much choice eventually.

[regentrude]

I have taught , and do a great deal of public speaking. It is as you describe, we agree. The thing is we have way too many kids going to college, assuming loads of debt and finishing with degrees they struggle to apply in the marketplace. Worse we have far too many who go, assume the debt and don't finish. I am very interested in finding ways to end those trends. I don't love Skyping, I love speaking in public and working in groups. But, Dd is coming along in a different world and they are learning in ways that are different. I suspect we may not have much choice eventually.

 

I am wondering whether the change in technology will attract an entirely different type and personality of teacher.

What I love about teaching is the direct face-to-face interaction with students, which is what made me choose teaching over research. It is hard to describe to an outsider how much this energizes me. If I were forced to teach without the presence of live students, I would not teach, but do something else with my degree - because it would not satisfy the need my job fulfills for me.

 

Knowing many people who have a passion for teaching because they feel similarly, I wonder what type of people will flock to teaching online courses.

[Nscribe]

In my opinion, the current economic climate does not invalidate a college education.

 

 

Agreed. But, the long term trends do indicate some change might be needed. The trend toward shortened career spans, multiple life time careers, constant change in skill demands....it all means learning will be a lifetime pursuit not just for life quality but for life necessity.

 

I keep thinking we will have two sorts of "success" for those in careers. The local tradesman/artisan and the international everythingman (or insert woman in either). The middle will be a difficult place to be.

 

You sound like us, we saved and saved and saved for college for Dd.

[Nan in Mass]

 

 

Check out this article fromt the Atlantic.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/02/heres-exactly-how-many-college-graduates-live-back-at-home/273529/

 

With percentages like those living at home after a 4 year experience, it just seems like sending them away so you have time to clean their rooms before they return or something.

 

 

So - I haven't read the article... but I have children who are living at home post college. In fact, at this point, I have three or four who are living at home post college (one lives at work and vacations here). This is probably a matter of family culture, but we didn't send ours to college so they would leave home forever - we sent ours to college to educate them. We get them back as educated, self-supporting adults who are now contributing to the family. We are all richer because we live together. Life is easier and more luxurious for us all because we pool our resources. Among other things, having the adult children back to live with us is a way for us to contribute easily to their college loans. The ones with no college loans pay house money.

 

I understand that the article is probably not refering to fully employed college graduates who choose to live at home because everybody benefits that way. It probably refers to the ones who want to live on their own but who are living at home because they are unable to find a job, or the ones whose fields aren't lucritive enough to make this possible, or the ones who received bad advice and have taken on so much college debt that they are unable to live on their own. LOL Not the ones who made more money than their fathers last year. But I still think it is worth posting to say that there are other sorts of family culture out there, ones for whom a college education is desirable whether or not it makes one more employable and/or ones for whom a college eduation is just an education, not a moving out permanently.

 

I also think it is worth pointing out that in some family cultures, the college "experience" (not the party half, obviously) is an integral part of growing up. And in other families, that growing up takes place in other ways. I have noticed over the years that it is often difficult for the second sort to understand the first sort (and sometimes the other way round).

 

I just wanted to point out that some families are HAPPY to have their children come back home to live. More people to fix the roof and drive the younger ones around and babysit and help with the housework and maintenance. It ups everyone's standard of living and is friendly and fun.

 

Nan

[Nscribe]

 

I am wondering whether the change in technology will attract an entirely different type and personality of teacher.

 

It is a great question. Just from watching Dd and her friends, I suspect it will be something to do with being able to be authentic, personable and perceived as authoritative without being condescending. Those are the things Dd insists on whenever we are in the market for anything that may be similar.

[Dana]

Lastly, one thing that is a bit elusive is atmosphere. Anybody who teaches knows that a room full of people develops a specific atmosphere and "vibe" as the audience members relate to each other and to the instructor. It is almost tangible and definitely varies form group to group, even if it the identical course. I wonder how much of an atmosphere is lost when classes are viewed at home by individuals at a time of their chosing - it is like the difference between a live theatre performance and a video of the same show; something is lost.

For the instructor, the unspoken feedback that comes through the atmosphere in the room is very important; this is lost for instructors who "perform" in front of hardly a handful of people because the lecture is recorded and will be watched by the rest of the class at a later point. It works, but there is something lost. I know that I, as an extrovert, need to have a live audience to fully engage as a lecturer; I could not muster the enthusiasm and energy if I had to do that in front of an empty room because the students are at home. (Actually, come to think of: I would stop probably teaching because it would not be any more fun.)

 

 

I'm a major introvert and I completely agree about teaching.

I did a self-paced course last year and it was boring beyond belief for me. I wasn't teaching; heck, I was barely "facilitating" (hate that term). I've done internet courses before. Very very little teaching going on there. There's also more talk about going to even more canned courses for our basic math classes. When that happens, I'm probably gone.

[Nscribe]

I just wanted to point out that some families are HAPPY to have their children come back home to live.

Nan

 

We would be in that group. A lot could change, but assuming the better of her two teen self's prevails in the end :rolleyes:, we would be glad to have her home. Although I must say the dog may be so spoiled by the time she is away a couple of years, he might have issues with it.

[JennW in SoCal]

I don't think anything can replace the real classroom, with an engaging and knowledgeable professor and a small group of students ready and able to discuss, question and experiment. It has to be face to face, and it has been face to face for thousands of years. Just consider Confucius and Socrates. It is an essential part of an education, in the truest, purest sense of education.

 

But that is a rarified ideal and it isn't for everybody. Not every 18yo is ready for it, not every 21yo will benefit from having had it. And for young people who aren't cut out for traditional academics, a school that uses cutting edge technology can be a life saver.

 

I've got 2 very different kids who nicely fit into these two categories. My youngest is at a 4 year liberal arts college and he loves the atmosphere. He takes advantage of the educational opportunities there outside the classroom by having lunch with his professors, by attending lectures, and he loves having small classrooms where students are engaged and exchanging ideas. He craved that rarified educational environment, and it suits him well. He is a tech kid, very wired into the internet, even used the internet for parts of his homeschooling. But that face to face interaction between professors and students, and between students, is much more satisfying and much more challenging.

 

Now the oldest is simply not cut out for pure academics. He has known for several years exactly what he wants to do, and starting in high school he got hands on and real world training through mentors and volunteer jobs. But it could never lead to a job as so many employers want to see that BA degree. We originally figured he would go to a state colleges via the community college system, but it would take years and years (California and its budget woes -- long story) and the academics were still too traditional for him. He found, however, the perfect school for him. It is a non-traditional, technologically cutting edge school that uses a crazy scheduling system to get students from start to BA in 2 years. I kid you not! Classes each are one month long, you only take 2 per month, classes are on-line or live and often a combination of both. There are labs (sometimes at 1 in the morning), there are hands on, real world work opportunities, and they have a 90% placement rate for the students coming out of his program. (Crossing fingers this holds true for him -- he graduates in June!)

 

I know there are many students somewhere in between the two extremes represented by my kids. Most go for the traditional 4 year degree without thought as to why, or what they want to do and it is expensive!! Even the state schools are getting expensive, and it is at those schools where I would think creative uses of technology, and different means of earning credit could start bringing down the cost and to shorten the time.

[Nscribe]

 

I'm a major introvert and I completely agree about teaching.

I did a self-paced course last year and it was boring beyond belief for me. I wasn't teaching; heck, I was barely "facilitating" (hate that term). I've done internet courses before. Very very little teaching going on there. There's also more talk about going to even more canned courses for our basic math classes. When that happens, I'm probably gone.

 

Have you done interactive real time courses? Was it better?

[Nan in Mass]

There was a teacher in my son's elementary school who was doing a master's program where the work was mostly on-line but one weekend a month was spent at the school. She said it was working very well because of the monthly intensive weekend. I think she had previously tried a program that was entirely online and hadn't liked it because there wasn't enough interaction.

 

Some majors, even ones that end with a huge competency test, couldn't be done on-line.

 

Nan

[garddwr]

Look at the British system: three years that is focused on the major. None of the Liberal Arts requirements. This is one way of reducing time on campus.

 

My son is an Archaeology major at a small LAC. His school is a writing intensive college--every senior spends his last year writing a thesis. There are stepping stones that lead up to this. All first year students take a writing intensive course. This is not Freshman Comp 101. Many colleges now offer writing intensive courses across the curriculum. My son took his First Year Seminar in the Music department. The seminars are small with lots of input from the profs. I don't see how this could be duplicated in a virtual experience.

 

As a first year student, he took a 300 level course in his major. Group projects were an essential part of this Archaeological Methods course; it translated to a real life experience last summer when he was working on a dig in Britain. I would say that his first year experience was not only important academically but also emotionally. His peer group bonded in a familial sort of way. They really looked after each other and helped each other through sickness and other issues. Not every freshman has this sort of experience. Certainly other kids find "family" and self definition via other paths.

 

Part of the whole college experience should be expansion in general with an exposure to new ideas and new people. Our community college does not have students who come from around the world. My son's first year roommate was from Vietnam. Ho Chi Minh City is huge and tropical. What an adjustment this kid to Midwestern small town life! My son helped him negotiate it. Good experiences all around.

 

Jane, I want to know what school this is! PM me if you don't want to broadcast it. I would have loved this kind of college experience.

[Jane in NC]

 

Jane, I want to know what school this is! PM me if you don't want to broadcast it. I would have loved this kind of college experience.

 

PM sent.

[JennW in SoCal]

PM sent.

 

And I don't know if Jane mentioned it in her PM, but it is the same wonderful school where my ds is a freshman!

 

 

Way back in the dark ages before I had children, I worked in an academic department at a UC, scheduling classes and advising students. There were so many times when I wanted to throttle the undergrads who were whining about how a class was "useless" simply because it was a requirement in a subject they didn't care about. Ah, education is wasted on the young!! I don't know if technology can fix that -- there will still be required courses filled with uninterested young people.

[Dana]

 

 

Have you done interactive real time courses? Was it better?

 

 

The self paced course was real time. Students were required to be in class on campus, but the course was contained and self-paced with online software in a computer lab. I was there to answer questions. What happened was I repeated myself at points where students got stuck...much like tutoring. Very annoying to repeat the same problems five times over three different days.

 

I can understand the benefit to some students who just need to brush up on material, but I found it very boring as a teacher. Interestingly, I think I prefer complete online courses.

[Chrysalis Academy]

So - I haven't read the article... but I have children who are living at home post college. In fact, at this point, I have three or four who are living at home post college (one lives at work and vacations here). This is probably a matter of family culture, but we didn't send ours to college so they would leave home forever - we sent ours to college to educate them. We get them back as educated, self-supporting adults who are now contributing to the family. We are all richer because we live together. Life is easier and more luxurious for us all because we pool our resources. Among other things, having the adult children back to live with us is a way for us to contribute easily to their college loans. The ones with no college loans pay house money.

 

I understand that the article is probably not refering to fully employed college graduates who choose to live at home because everybody benefits that way. It probably refers to the ones who want to live on their own but who are living at home because they are unable to find a job, or the ones whose fields aren't lucritive enough to make this possible, or the ones who received bad advice and have taken on so much college debt that they are unable to live on their own. LOL Not the ones who made more money than their fathers last year. But I still think it is worth posting to say that there are other sorts of family culture out there, ones for whom a college education is desirable whether or not it makes one more employable and/or ones for whom a college eduation is just an education, not a moving out permanently.

 

I also think it is worth pointing out that in some family cultures, the college "experience" (not the party half, obviously) is an integral part of growing up. And in other families, that growing up takes place in other ways. I have noticed over the years that it is often difficult for the second sort to understand the first sort (and sometimes the other way round).

 

I just wanted to point out that some families are HAPPY to have their children come back home to live. More people to fix the roof and drive the younger ones around and babysit and help with the housework and maintenance. It ups everyone's standard of living and is friendly and fun.

 

Nan

 

Nan, what a lovely and inspiring post. This is the sort of family culture we're trying to create, as well. I would love it if my daughters choose to share their lives with us as adults.

[creekland]

I'm late being able to read this thread, but after having two kids in college and one more actively looking for "his" school, there's no way in the world that I would want them educated online instead (or even mostly online). The experiences they are getting is worth far, far more than just the education alone (esp one Jane mentioned about meeting people from around the globe).

 

Neither of my older two are in the frat and/or "drunken idiots" group. Both have found profs they absolutely love working for.

 

I'd be ok with any of my kids coming home after college. I enjoy sharing their lives.

[Nan in Mass]

Boy, do I get that! My son is attached at the virtual hip to a girl across the pond. But they met in person first... The long distance relationship has been redefined by Skype.

 

 

I've got one "attached at the virtual hip" to someone touring the country. Hours on skype every evening with someone in a hotel room who knows where. Having been in a long-distance relationship myself, skype seems miraculously wonderful to me. (They, too, began the relationship in person.) I also have another one who spends hours with his friends at colleges far away. They make a team connected via a head sets and play games with people on the other side of the world. Not exactly what I envisioned when I tried to make him bilingual lol but it has come in handy at times.

 

Despite this, I want mine to go to college in person, at least at this time. The world is changing but I don't think it has changed enough yet to make this a viable substitute for the particular sort of college education I happen to want mine to have.

 

Nan

[shawthorne44]

Online courses can be good or bad, just like live classes can. I took a couple of video/online courses that I thought were just as good as my live ones. Although, the ones I took were the video option for a live class. They just recorded the live class.