Can someone compare Smarr Lit to EiL?

[dancer67]

I am still leaning towards EiL. But I have to admit I am a little nervous that it might be *to* much for my incoming 9th grader.The author says your child should have a background in literary analysis before starting.(she doesn't other then lots of reading) Plus it looks like quite a bit of books to read, plus write all in one school year. I don't want to squash my daughters love for reading. Then someone told me about Smarr. I can only see the Short Story sample. I cannot see any other samples of her program.Can someone tell me if there is any writing instruction with this? And, I know you can get the CD-Rom at Rainbow Resource with the PDF files. And I would have to print out all the pages. It is more expensive then EiL as well plus you still have to get the books. But wondering if this might go at a slower pace? Can someone compare the two?(ETA: I am looking at the Smarr courses such as Intro to Lit and so on)

[Mom22ns]

I've never used Smarr so I can't compare, but EIL is broken into individual units. If it is too much, don't do them all. We dropped one unit in November this year to give ds more time for NaNoWriMo. The units can be done in any order, in any combination from the different levels. They are not interdependent.

[dancer67]

I've never used Smarr so I can't compare, but EIL is broken into individual units. If it is too much, don't do them all. We dropped one unit in November this year to give ds more time for NaNoWriMo. The units can be done in any order, in any combination from the different levels. They are not interdependent.

Ohhhhhh...................okay. I didn't realize that. So if I do English II, and I feel all the book units are to much, I can drop one. Got it. That makes it much easier. Is there vocabulary work in this, or does the author assume if the child doesn't know the word, he/she needs to look it up?

[TheApprentice]

My 9th grade ds is currently using EIL: Literature and Composition (the 2nd book). There is not a lot of hand holding in this curriculum, it is very much in the rhetoric stage.

 

There are no composition questions, vocabulary questions, or clear directions on how to write the papers.

 

Each unit has 2 books; a focus book and an honor's book. The focus book is the one your student has to write a paper on, the honor's has an approach paper. I have on a couple of occasions had my ds just do the approach paper. So far, our experience has been all the papers are expository in nature. The papers are very thought provoking and require the student to be an active reader (she encourages writing in the margins. Here is the question for the focus book "Walden Pond":

 

"The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation." What evidence does Thoreau offer for this statement, and what are his solutions? If you like, you may also consider whether his ideas are really the solution to "lives of quiet desperation." Be sure to use quotations from the focus text to support your thesis.

 

I would say the meat of the curriculum is in the context material that she suggests before reading the book, or at least concurrently.

 

This approach has worked for ds, and we'll probably continue with American Literature for 10th grade.

 

HTH

[Mom22ns]

Ohhhhhh...................okay. I didn't realize that. So if I do English II, and I feel all the book units are to much, I can drop one. Got it. That makes it much easier. Is there vocabulary work in this, or does the author assume if the child doesn't know the word, he/she needs to look it up?

 

 

There is no vocabulary included. She specifically tells students to look up words they don't know and write them down along with their definition, but there are no words suggested for each book or chapter.

[Mom22ns]

Each unit has 2 books; a focus book and an honor's book. The focus book is the one your student has to write a paper on, the honor's has an approach paper. I have on a couple of occasions had my ds just do the approach paper.

 

 

In the levels I have, no approach paper is suggested for the honors books. The honors books are only extra reading. There is a research paper added at the end for the honors level.

 

 

 

 

Key components of the Honors Option (in addition to regular assignments) include reading, writing, and a final exam. The reading is the most time- consuming element, as it’s the foundation for both the writing assignment and the final exam. Be sure to create a schedule that makes it all manageable!

• Extra reading

• 6–10 page research paper (depending on student’s grade level)

• CLEP test (For English II; exam optional for English I)

 

[dancer67]

Hmmmm. I don't know. I think those questions are going to be above my daughters head. And if there isn't a a lot of hand holding she might sink. If anyone has used Smarr please chime in. :grouphug:

[purplelily]

Smarr has your student read the books. Lesson's contain vocabulary words, vocab exercises, comprehension questions

and critical thinking questions. It has vocabulary quizzes. The students write papers for the books they read. There are some grammar type exercises s they relate to writing.

 

[3andme]

I haven't used either of these programs but I've been looking at them for use in the near future. I think they both fall short on the literary analysis end. In your case, I think Smarr might be a better fit.

 

EIL looks to me like it would work well with a self motivated or independent learner with strong language skills. It seems similar to a college course with a little more hand holding via the links. The student needs to be able to make their own connections based on the contextual links and writing assignment. They would also need to be able to organize and pace their work.

 

Smarr is very open and go. I think it would work well for many students but esp. those who are not strong in organizational, comprehension, or language skills. At first glance, I thought it was a bit simplistic but, after further reflection, I think it is a solid program esp. so if you can add some literary discussion. The schedule and worksheets help with pacing and comprehension and keep the student moving through the text even if not at a deep level. The samples for the short story unit are indicative of the other samples. They all have pretty much the same categories on each worksheet. The British Lit course I have also has a "Bonus Thoughts" section that provides notes on literary devices or historical context. I'm not sure if that section is included in all their programs. The vocabulary is well chosen and not overwhelming. I'm leaning in this direction for my ds. There is no way in 8th, he would be ready for EIL without a lot of parental support.

 

Just to muddy the waters a little, I have also been looking at the Scott Foresman "America Reads" textbooks. These are older traditional anthologies with one complete novel/novella in each book. This series has been recommended on a few other threads. These might not work if you really like the whole books approach but these texts really shine in providing contextual background and literary analysis. These features are integrated into the text with the literary selections. After each selection, there are comprehension questions, brief vocab. exercises and writing prompts. An annotated instructor's book can be purchased inexpensively with answers and additional side notes on the readings. There isn't a pacing guide per se so it's not as open and go as Smarr.. However, since most of the selections are short, they lend themselves to daily work and you might not find it that hard to schedule.

 

Another curriculum that looked intriguing is Read with the Best. This is only available right now for American Literature but eventually a British Lit course is planned. It seems like a thorough and comprehensive "open and go" program with a strong foundation in literary analysis and vocabulary.

[Nscribe]

I am still leaning towards EiL. But I have to admit I am a little nervous that it might be *to* much for my incoming 9th grader.The author says your child should have a background in literary analysis before starting.(she doesn't other then lots of reading) Plus it looks like quite a bit of books to read, plus write all in one school year. I don't want to squash my daughters love for reading.

 

Have you looked at Lightening Literature? From what I have seen it is less reading and not as much expectation of analysis.

[mumto2]

We just received that EiL book last week with my order. Like your dd mine does not have an extensive written analysis background for lit. We discuss usually. A few SL essays each year. She spent a good hour looking the course over and is very excited. Wants to do some of the honors options. She loves reading and is excited about those books.

 

We have done some work with Smarr. Just the poetry courses which used to be free. We enjoyed Smarr. Even ds participated with the poetry and it went well. The above description does sound like what we did--I don't have it with me now. Honestly my main gripe was the pdf format. I printed everything but the pages kept going missing. I didn't want to bind it because I liked doing one unit at a time. I had stapled packs bond with a clip. Everyone kept taking them apart. I am hoping for more organization this year plus I knew the book selection would appeal to dd.

 

I forgot to quote it but the pp American Lit recomendation looked very interesting. I am hunting for something for American lit and if EiL doesn't work......

[dancer67]

Thank you for all the responses. I just don't think my DD will be ready for the type of essay questions they ask. I showed it to her and she got a glazed look. Reading is not an issue. But when it comes down to the essay questions, I think EiL is going to overwhelm her. Sounds like Smarr might fit in the middle of EiL and LL.? I was told Smarr had writing instruction, but I wonder how good it is. Hand holding type of writing instruction?(Which is what she needs) if not, I have a separate writing program I can use.

[Julie in MN]

Thank you for all the responses. I just don't think my DD will be ready for the type of essay questions they ask. I showed it to her and she got a glazed look. Reading is not an issue. But when it comes down to the essay questions, I think EiL is going to overwhelm her. Sounds like Smarr might fit in the middle of EiL and LL.? I was told Smarr had writing instruction, but I wonder how good it is. Hand holding type of writing instruction?(Which is what she needs) if not, I have a separate writing program I can use.

 

I used some individual Smarr guides with older dd, and used the MFW-adapted Smarr materials with younger ds.

 

If EIL is focused on "literary analysis" then it will not overlap Smarr materials. Smarr individual book guides focus on thorough comprehension of high school level literature, including vocabulary and detailed questions. Then there are a much smaller number of analysis/essay/discussion type questions that are more about meaning, worldview, comparison, thinking deeper about what you read and what the novel is "saying" beyond a list of events, characters, etc. The questions are not for the purpose of learning to name and analyze literary terms and techniques of presentation, at least in the guides we've used. There may have been some notice here or there of techniques used by a particular author, but it was not a focused, progressive study of those techniques.

 

Smarr also has a guide for writing which I've only used in the MFW-adapted version so not sure what their "regular" version is like. The guide we used focused on constructing an argumentative essay, and then on using grammar review to evaluate your own writing and improve it (e.g. review uses of pronouns, take out all subject pronouns from your essay). You would need to get the separate Smarr writing guide for this.

 

HTH,

Julie

[purplelily]

Have you considered IEW's Windows to the World?

http://www.excellenceinwriting.com/wtw-t

 

I used Smarr with my oldest daughter, but Smarr did not go in depth with literature analysis as Windows.

Windows breaks down each part of literary analysis into lessons. Jill Pike has lesson plans available to go with it that will hold your hand all the way through. IEW even suggests that Windows to the World be completed befor doing EIL courses. The students write essays through out the year analyzing literature.

[kerenlynne]

Wish I had found this forum before we pulled DS out of HS. So many choices. Using EIL intro into lit with Dyslexic son because it is what I feel like English should be. Since it is homeschool-I adapt. I like the idea of the whole book English and he needs to learn to write a paper. I also like all of the links to supplemental sources and that it is pretty affordable. I just don't always assign the paper or all of the papers for the unit. It seems to work pretty well for us and yes there is lots of handholding but it is just part of what we do in every class so I don't know how to do anything differently. His papers are pretty simplistic so far but we are working on upping expectations with each unit. I definitely will evaluate our program at the end of this and might switch to something less intense for American Lit and Brit Lit.

[dancer67]

We wouldn't be using individual Smarr guides. But the courses. Intro to Lit and so on. I have looked at WtW, and I will look at it once again. So far, I have seen many positive reviews about Smarr. I think that one has to find the right fit for their child. I am nt so sure EiL is it. But still mulling things over. Thank you so far for everyones input.

[Heathermomster]

I'm thumbing through EIL's Intro to Lit right now.

 

If you have never thoroughly studied literary analysis before, the author of EIL's Intro to Lit recommends going through Adam Andrew's Teaching the Classics DVD course, including the Worldview Supplement. The coursework she mentions use children's classics to teach the fundamentals of literary analysis with worldview. Basically, these are DVDs designed to teach mom exactly how to teach.

 

Alongside the DVDs, the author also recommends both How to Read Slowly: Reading for Comprehension by James W. Sire and Reading Between the Lines: A Christian Guide to Literature by Gene Edward Veith. or How to Read a Book: The Classic Guide to Intelligent Reading by Mortimer J. Adler and Charles Van Doren. The Adler/Doren book is available for free on-line.

 

Unit 1 teaches the student how to write an approach paper and reviews the 5 elements of fiction. I can't speak to the other units because I just started reading. If you use EIL, basically cut back and do what is comfortable.

[Jen the RD]

Have you considered IEW's Windows to the World?

http://www.excellenc...iting.com/wtw-t

 

I used Smarr with my oldest daughter, but Smarr did not go in depth with literature analysis as Windows.

Windows breaks down each part of literary analysis into lessons. Jill Pike has lesson plans available to go with it that will hold your hand all the way through. IEW even suggests that Windows to the World be completed befor doing EIL courses. The students write essays through out the year analyzing literature.

 

I agree. This is what we are using this year for my 9th grade dd. I have been very impressed with how thorough this program is. It gives the teacher and student excellent support. My dd loves the way Leisha Myers writes. She says she feel like she is right there explaining it in person. Ditto, for the lesson plans. They are very helpful. Do understand, though, that *I* do not feel that this is an independent program that you hand to your child. It really needs your involvement. The discussions are very useful to reinforce what is covered in the lesson, so I try to stay 1-2 weeks ahead.

 

HTH,

Jennifer

[Reflections]

I'm thumbing through EIL's Intro to Lit right now.

 

If you have never thoroughly studied literary analysis before, the author of EIL's Intro to Lit recommends going through Adam Andrew's Teaching the Classics DVD course, including the Worldview Supplement. The coursework she mentions use children's classics to teach the fundamentals of literary analysis with worldview. Basically, these are DVDs designed to teach mom exactly how to teach.

 

Alongside the DVDs, the author also recommends both How to Read Slowly: Reading for Comprehension by James W. Sire and Reading Between the Lines: A Christian Guide to Literature by Gene Edward Veith. or How to Read a Book: The Classic Guide to Intelligent Reading by Mortimer J. Adler and Charles Van Doren. The Adler/Doren book is available for free on-line.

 

Unit 1 teaches the student how to write an approach paper and review the 5 elements of fiction. I can't speak to the other units because I just started reading. If you use EIL, basically cut back and do what is comfortable.

 

 

Do you have a link? I've been googling and I can't find it.

[Julie of KY]

We've been using EIL this year, however we use it mostly for the books, discussion, and the links to learn more. We've been using Windows to the World for literary analysis with some WTM and Adam Andrews questions for discussion. I do a mix of things for the writing side of things - sometimes related to EIL, othertimes not. I've been happy with EIL e en though we've not used it with all the assignments.

 

[Heathermomster]

 

 

Do you have a link? I've been googling and I can't find it.

 

 

When I typed that last posting, I had downloaded the book for free. I thought the download was from google docs; however, I'm not seeing it there now. The book is packed with info, so I purchased the paperback anyways. I'm sorry..

[Reflections]

 

When I typed that last posting, I had downloaded the book for free. I thought the download was from google docs; however, I'm not seeing it there now. The book is packed with info, so I purchased the paperback anyways. I'm sorry..

 

 

That's okay. I did find a link to the book in pdf format... but I will probably get the *real* book too anyway....