What's next.. Math. Algebra 2 or geometry? Which geometry?

[jennynd]

DS is almost at the end of AOPS algebra 1 (plan goes to ch 13) and I am starting to think for next school year. For the rest of the school year and summer, we plan to finish singapore NEM 1 and 2 exercises as review. But for next year? Here are the options I am thinking

1. Finish AOPS algebra 2 part. Maybe adding patty paper geometry once a week as "pre" geometry. I think DS will like patty paper.

2. Jacob geometry. I have both Ed 2 and 3rd.. Mann I am addicted buying curriculum.

3. TT geometry as preview ( i just got a great deal from ebay) and AOPS geometry after.? I probably can start TT geometry along with NEM review this school year.

 

Jump right in AOPS gemoetry most likely will not work. The boy simply too young to tackle it.

Which option makes most sense? or any Other suggestion?

[EKS]

TT Geometry is a solid geometry course, though not anything special and not honors level. Jacobs 3rd edition is considered honors level in my local (highly regarded) school district. If your son is young, I'd go with whatever you think will work for him, and if it is Patty Paper, do that.

 

Jacobs 2nd edition is more "traditional" than the 3rd edition is. Both are excellent. I found that I couldn't teach from them so we switched to TT. It was adequate and nothing more. My son still talks about how the guy on the videos sounded like he was talking to preschoolers (he does).

 

If I had to teach geometry again, I'd use Derek Owens. He uses Jacobs 3rd *and* he does the grading. I found grading geometry papers to be a pain because if the kid doesn't write the proof exactly the way it is written in the answer key, you have to work it out yourself to see if what he did was right. My kid rarely conformed to the answer key.

 

Those are my rambling thoughts on geometry. You probably shouldn't listen to me because geometry was our worst math year ever mostly because of my own personal issues.

[regentrude]

We have been using AoPS and finished the entire Intro to Algebra book before moving on to AoPS Geometry.

[jennynd]

We have been using AoPS and finished the entire Intro to Algebra book before moving on to AoPS Geometry.

 

How do you compare the difficulty level between the algebra 2 part and geometry part?

[jennynd]

TT Geometry is a solid geometry course, though not anything special and not honors level. Jacobs 3rd edition is considered honors level in my local (highly regarded) school district. If your son is young, I'd go with whatever you think will work for him, and if it is Patty Paper, do that.

 

Jacobs 2nd edition is more "traditional" than the 3rd edition is. Both are excellent. I found that I couldn't teach from them so we switched to TT. It was adequate and nothing more. My son still talks about how the guy on the videos sounded like he was talking to preschoolers (he does).

 

If I had to teach geometry again, I'd use Derek Owens. He uses Jacobs 3rd *and* he does the grading. I found grading geometry papers to be a pain because if the kid doesn't write the proof exactly the way it is written in the answer key, you have to work it out yourself to see if what he did was right. My kid rarely conformed to the answer key.

 

Those are my rambling thoughts on geometry. You probably shouldn't listen to me because geometry was our worst math year ever mostly because of my own personal issues.

 

I didn't consider outside instructor. I think I will check on that. I do agree that proof is hard to grade.

[regentrude]

How do you compare the difficulty level between the algebra 2 part and geometry part?

 

I would say the algebra 2 part of AoPS Intro is much easier than the geometry book (after you get through the easy intro chapters)

AoPS geometry is considered their hardest book, and I would be inclined to share this assessment. Very abstract, lots of challenging material.

My DD did Intro to Algebra when she was 12, completed the entire book in one school year including summer, and then did Intro to Geometry the following year.

My DS started Algebra in 6th grade, finished the algebra 1 portion in one school year, took a semester for Counting and Probability and is now, in the middle of 8th grade, about to finish the Intro to Algebra book. He will then start on the geometry book within the next weeks.

[quark]

I can't remember if your DS has finished the AOPS NT and CP books...apologies if you already mentioned that somewhere. That's the first option that comes to mind.

Between/ concurrently with algebra 1 and geometry (DS didn't use AOPS as his core curriculum) we took a few months to cover geometry living math style. We used:

1. Hands On Geometry by Christopher Freeman. It was a fantastic introduction to constructions and my DS still refers to his workbook when encountering constructions in his high school geometry text. I really like it because there are questions that ask the student to explain why you can or cannot achieve something, in what ways diagonals of a rectangle are related to each other etc. He basically had to put some thought into what he was constructing.

2. A little Patty Paper Geometry - eventually relegated to an unschooled resource (i.e. not led by me)

3. String, Straightedge and Shadow by Julia Diggins - was a good read aloud/ discussion resource

4. Murderous Maths books on geometry and trig themes Fiendish Angletron, Savage Shapes and one or two others...forgetting the titles

5. Lots of origami, reading about fractals etc.

6. The first two activity books in this series.

7. ETA: We also watched several videos from Teaching Company's high school Geometry title. It was a nice, proof-light intro.

 

We also took a while to focus on problem solving through the Math Olympiad books, and we watched James Tanton videos on youtube.

 

One milestone after algebra 1 was that DS could start working on algebra-based physics so although you didn't ask, I suggest giving him the chance to apply his algebra to problem solving in physics (if he is interested).

[Kim C]

I haven't seen any of the geometry curricula you mentioned, but here's my plan. I plan to ease into geometry. We are doing Lial's Intro. to Algebra this year. The current plan is to do Patty Paper Geometry over the summer (or whenever we finish algebra I) before starting geometry. Currently, I plan to use Discovering Geometry, but I'm still early in the planning phase. We will do some form of algebra I review while doing geometry to keep it fresh in my son's mind so he is ready for algebra II.

 

Kim

[jennynd]

 

I would say the algebra 2 part of AoPS Intro is much easier than the geometry book (after you get through the easy intro chapters)

AoPS geometry is considered their hardest book, and I would be inclined to share this assessment. Very abstract, lots of challenging material.

My DD did Intro to Algebra when she was 12, completed the entire book in one school year including summer, and then did Intro to Geometry the following year.

My DS started Algebra in 6th grade, finished the algebra 1 portion in one school year, took a semester for Counting and Probability and is now, in the middle of 8th grade, about to finish the Intro to Algebra book. He will then start on the geometry book within the next weeks.

 

 

That is my thought too after flip through the AOPS geometry. I do not think it will work for him this year. How about compare AOPS algebra 2 to say.. like Jacobs geometry?

[jennynd]

I can't remember if your DS has finished the AOPS NT and CP books...apologies if you already mentioned that somewhere. That's the first option that comes to mind.

Between/ concurrently with algebra 1 and geometry (DS didn't use AOPS as his core curriculum) we took a few months to cover geometry living math style. We used:

1. Hands On Geometry by Christopher Freeman. It was a fantastic introduction to constructions and my DS still refers to his workbook when encountering constructions in his high school geometry text. I really like it because there are questions that ask the student to explain why you can or cannot achieve something, in what ways diagonals of a rectangle are related to each other etc. He basically had to put some thought into what he was constructing.

2. A little Patty Paper Geometry - eventually relegated to an unschooled resource (i.e. not led by me)

3. String, Straightedge and Shadow by Julia Diggins - was a good read aloud/ discussion resource

4. Murderous Maths books on geometry and trig themes Fiendish Angletron, Savage Shapes and one or two others...forgetting the titles

5. Lots of origami, reading about fractals etc.

6. The first two activity books in this series.

7. ETA: We also watched several videos from Teaching Company's high school Geometry title. It was a nice, proof-light intro.

 

We also took a while to focus on problem solving through the Math Olympiad books, and we watched James Tanton videos on youtube.

 

One milestone after algebra 1 was that DS could start working on algebra-based physics so although you didn't ask, I suggest giving him the chance to apply his algebra to problem solving in physics (if he is interested).

 

 

did he like patty paper?

 

I do think think I have some Murderous Maths, not quite sure if I have geometry, Have to check on that. I totally forget about that fun series.. and I like the orgami idea. I think my younger DD will even like that better. :thumbup1: we can easily fit that into out non math day schedule as fun activity

 

the constructing the universe activity books looks amazing..

 

As far as physic, we are going through not so algebra based physics. And it was the plan to do a algebra based physics after we are done with algebra.

[regentrude]

 

That is my thought too after flip through the AOPS geometry. I do not think it will work for him this year. How about compare AOPS algebra 2 to say.. like Jacobs geometry?

 

Sorry, I don't know Jacobs. (We liked AoPS so much that we never glanced at another math book, until calculus)

[8filltheheart]

I tried using using Jacobs 2nd Ed with one of my ds. He absolutely hated it bc he found Jacobs very, very wordy and just wanted him to get to the pt. Another used Larson's geo and it was just your standard geo bk.

 

My favorite geo bk that I have used with 3 students now is http://www.chalkdust.com/geomoutnew.html I work the problems at the same time as my students so I don't find grading to be an issue bc I can see the various ways the proofs can be solved. I really think this bk strikes a good balance between proofs and application problems. I have also had younger students complete the text. (I think ds was 12.)

 

Fwiw, I have only used Patty Paper with my current 8th grader (who is currently using the linked text) and I think it has given her a great visual understanding of concepts.)

 

I have never seen AoPS geo, but have heard it is the hardest of the introductory texts.

[jennynd]

Sorry, I don't know Jacobs. (We liked AoPS so much that we never glanced at another math book, until calculus)

 

 

I should've known that :laugh:

 

So, going from algebra 1 to algebra 2 in the AOPS intro to Algebra book. Do you think that is a big jump as far as difficulty level? or it is a smooth ramp up?

DS had some problems with ch 6 and 7 last section on the word problem, other than that he is doing quite good, especailly the chapters after 7 up to where we are (ch11) He is doing exceptionally good. Do you think he will be ok go on algebra 2 part?

[jennynd]

I tried using using Jacobs 2nd Ed with one of my ds. He absolutely hated it bc he found Jacobs very, very wordy and just wanted him to get to the pt. Another used Larson's geo and it was just your standard geo bk.

 

My favorite geo bk that I have used with 3 students now is http://www.chalkdust...moutnew.html��I work the problems at the same time as my students so I don't find grading to be an issue bc I can see the various ways the proofs can be solved. I really think this bk strikes a good balance between proofs and application problems. I have also had younger students complete the text. (I think ds was 12.)

 

Fwiw, I have only used Patty Paper with my current 8th grader (who is currently using the linked text) and I think it has given her a great visual understanding of concepts.)

 

I have never seen AoPS geo, but have heard it is the hardest of the introductory texts.

 

 

 

Can't buy another curriculum

I already have jacobs, Patty paper, AOPS and TT. :ack2:. Got to make one of these to work

[Kathy in Richmond]

I love Patty Paper geometry as a pre-geometry supplement to give the child some hands-on discovery work w/o the more abstract theorem and proof aspect of geometry.

 

My absolute favorite geometry for young, gifted kids is Jacobs geometry 2nd edition. In my ideal world, I would follow that up in a later year with AoPS geometry.

[regentrude]

I should've known that :laugh:

 

So, going from algebra 1 to algebra 2 in the AOPS intro to Algebra book. Do you think that is a big jump as far as difficulty level? or it is a smooth ramp up?

DS had some problems with ch 6 and 7 last section on the word problem, other than that he is doing quite good, especailly the chapters after 7 up to where we are (ch11) He is doing exceptionally good. Do you think he will be ok go on algebra 2 part?

 

I did not find a significant increase in difficulty between the first and second half of the book. In fact, I found chapter 7, on ratios, the hardest; with DS, we postponed a large part of this chapter for the following school year and came back to it then.

If your DS has trouble with the starred sections in the later chapters, you could simply avoid them for now.

[jennynd]

I did not find a significant increase in difficulty between the first and second half of the book. In fact, I found chapter 7, on ratios, the hardest; with DS, we postponed a large part of this chapter for the following school year and came back to it then.

If your DS has trouble with the starred sections in the later chapters, you could simply avoid them for now.

 

That is good to know, I almost want to drop the book duringch6 and Ch7 because it was getting very frustrated for DS, but after that , it is all sunny and smile again. I was really worry if there is any chapter in Algebra 2 are like that. It is good to know that the ratio is the hardest part. Thanks a lot for that input

[jennynd]

I love Patty Paper geometry as a pre-geometry supplement to give the child some hands-on discovery work w/o the more abstract theorem and proof aspect of geometry.

 

My absolute favorite geometry for young, gifted kids is Jacobs geometry. In my ideal world, I would follow that up in a later year with AoPS geometry.

 

Based on all the great inputs about Patty paper, I think I will do Algebra 2 part in AOPS along with Patty Paper as fun extra activity.. maybe add some origami along the way too.. And depends how he does next year, I can re-evaulate if we need to do Jacobs before AOPS Geometry or jump right in. It will give him another year to mature. I do want him to do AOPS geometry eventually, if that means working on jacobs before AOPS to make it to work, I am totally willing to have him spend the extra time. That is great input. Thanks

[quark]

That is good to know, I almost want to drop the book duringch6 and Ch7 because it was getting very frustrated for DS, but after that , it is all sunny and smile again. I was really worry if there is any chapter in Algebra 2 are like that. It is good to know that the ratio is the hardest part. Thanks a lot for that input

 

DS works on AoPS Intro to Alg when he has time (AOPS is one of his "unschooled" programs) and he similarly found chapters 6 and 7 the hardest. And this was after finishing the entire Dolciani algebra 1 text.

 

OP, you asked about patty paper...yes, DS liked it but I don't think he finished the book.

 

ETA: just asked DS about patty paper geometry. He says that he liked the folding and drawing lines on the patty paper. He liked being able to see lines on the other side. He liked reading about symmetry and fractals. He liked figuring out how to carry out some of the folds. He says he stopped using it once he started geometry proper because it was much more fun spending his time thinking about proofs. :p I've seen him use patty paper in the ways suggested in the book...but he does it with his own "geometry ideas"...just random stuff that he comes up with. He doesn't use the book for instruction anymore. And OP, if buying the book, you only need the teacher guide.

[jennynd]

 

 

DS works on AoPS Intro to Alg when he has time (AOPS is one of his "unschooled" programs) and he similarly found chapters 6 and 7 the hardest. And this was after finishing the entire Dolciani algebra 1 text.

 

OP, you asked about patty paper...yes, DS liked it but I don't think he finished the book.

 

ETA: just asked DS about patty paper geometry. He says that he liked the folding and drawing lines on the patty paper. He liked being able to see lines on the other side. He liked reading about symmetry and fractals. He liked figuring out how to carry out some of the folds. He says he stopped using it once he started geometry proper because it was much more fun spending his time thinking about proofs. :p I've seen him use patty paper in the ways suggested in the book...but he does it with his own "geometry ideas"...just random stuff that he comes up with. He doesn't use the book for instruction anymore. And OP, if buying the book, you only need the teacher guide.

 

 

Thanks whole bunch. Now I see 2 extremely gifted kids thought that those chapters are indeed difficult, that make me feel so much more encouraged.

I took out the patty paper today for both my kids. Somehow we ended up making paper airplane... :)

[quark]

I took out the patty paper today for both my kids. Somehow we ended up making paper airplane... :)

 

That's a great start! :laugh:

[lewelma]

In fact, I found chapter 7, on ratios, the hardest;

 

My ds had to do Ch 7 twice. He finished it in December, and then after a 3-week break at Christmas, I had him do it again.

 

Ruth in NZ

[jennynd]

My ds had to do Ch 7 twice. He finished it in December, and then after a 3-week break at Christmas, I had him do it again.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

 

That's a good idea. We never get to do the challenging problem on ch6 and any challenging problems related to last section of ch7. It will really worthwhile to have him redo the 2 chapters after he done with the book.