Socratic discussion problems - introverts

[Parrothead]

Or maybe this is more of a thinker vs talker problem. We are not great talkers in my immediate family. We spend a great amount of time in our heads since we are a family of introverts. Long intellectual discussions about works of art, literature or history just don't happen. We art interested in intellectually stimulating things, we just don't talk about them.

 

This was not something that either dh or I had growing up either in school or at home

 

Has anyone had to get over something similar in order to get through the later years of school? If you did how did you do it?

[Vida Winter]

Online courses can help in this area as it forces one to rise to the occasion and participate. After a while it becomes more comfortable. You may also want to involve your student in a local book discussion group (or start one if you want more input on book selection).

[Kalmia]

I wouldn't force it if it is unnatural to your family. Maybe have them watch something like the Teaching the Classics DVD or one of the Teaching Company's lectures to see what the basic format of literary discussion is, then let them READ other people's opinions on the books/artworks/etc to engage with another perspective. I think the point of these discussions is to learn things about a work you wouldn't have come up with on your own and to argue your own point of view. The learning can come from additional reading (even better if it is by an expert in the field) and the arguments can be made in the form of a persuasive essay. This way everyone can remain comfortably in their own head. So says the introvert who thinks joining a book club would suck every bit of joy out of reading a book.

[Shelly in VA]

I think there is a Great Courses course about decision making which he will have to do.

 

 

I need to look for that! The one-sided discussions here are frustrating, and definitely unproductive. My oldest would benefit from a decision making course.

 

That said - I have seen some improvement with all of my kids since I started having them give occasional oral presentations (we do them quarterly, now, at a minimum, ever since they reached high school age). Obviously not the same as discussions, because the kids have written the papers/speeches ahead of time, but it does give them a chance to practice verbalizing their ideas, and sometimes it facilitates discussion if someone asks a question. I have to admit, these presentations have been the most helpful for my middle two children, who are more extroverted, but I have seen distinct improvement for my oldest daughter, who is very introverted. Maybe, in reality, it's been most beneficial to the introvert, but the benefits are just not as outwardly apparent.

 

Thanks for the Great Courses suggestion!

[lllll]

..

[Parrothead]

So says the introvert who thinks joining a book club would suck every bit of joy out of reading a book.

I know! Right? What a way to kill a book. :laugh:

[Parrothead]

 

 

Kind of like these questions, only personalized, sometimes, to make them relevant to the kid to hold his attention. Otherwise, I found my kids would start getting distracted and goofing around. Well, they did that anyway, but a little less so if I was firing questions at them which made them stop and think. :tongue_smilie:

Thanks for that.

[Lori D.]

3 out of the 4 of us are extreme introverts, and the 4th is borderline introvert/extrovert. We spent large blocks of time quietly, separately doing our own thing, thinking deeply. ;) However, we do share at the dinner table what we've been thinking about. But, discussion is a learned activity, esp. for introverts.

 

We never formally used those Socratic questions, although, it skimming over them, I realize that we tend to ask some of those types of things naturally, but with a specific about the movie we all watched or the book we all read. In the middle school and early high school years, discussion tended to be me asking a lot of questions, sharing a few things I saw, and a few monosyllabic responses from DSs.

 

Knowing when to stop the discussion and move on is important, too -- being willing to dig around a little by coming at it in a few different ways, but if there's nothing there, it's best to stop. As they got older, and I persisted, and they got more comfortable, they would share comparisons of the Literature with a movie, or with other works, and then later on, themes and more subtle things they noticed. Lit. guide questions were indispensable to *me* in those earlier years to have ideas to springboard conversation. Following discussion bunny trails when they arose was very important. Seeing that it's time to stop is also very important.

 

Discussion is going to be a *lot* harder if it's just you and 1 student. A real-life co-op class or dual-enrollment class could be very helpful. What about an online class with a live discussion portion (even if it's just typing discussion back and forth)?

 

DH led DSs through the Logic text during high school -- read aloud, and discuss. When we watch a movie, we share what we saw or especially appreciated about it, which sometimes leads to discussion. In fact, many students find it easier to *see* things happening in a movie and then be able to talk about it first, and then work into seeing it in the literature to talk about it. For school discussion, We used discussion questions from Lit. guides during school hours. We read aloud some works together so we could share/discuss/analyze in the moment.

 

DSs enjoyed Worldview Academy and the deep thinking that aroused, and so occasionally initiate discussion. They also did Youth & Gov't and really enjoyed the debating, and learned to think well, argue well, and that carried over a bit into school discussions.

 

Slowly, you all feel your way forward into what works for *your* family for discussion. Some families do a once every few days "tea time" and discussion. Some read aloud a thought-provoking book for 15 minutes after dinner a few nights a week. The Pig Who Wants to Be Eaten might be a good one if you all enjoy thinking about philosophical/ethical topics.

 

Some find playing games in the evening relaxes everyone and allows for spontaneous sharing that can lead into interesting discussions. What about one night a week, have each person bring to the table and share something they found especially thought-provoking, and share why -- newspaper or magazine article; something from school; an event at work; something new learned from someone else...

 

Going to a play or art gallery with others may get the ball rolling for you in seeing how to discuss. What about emailing one another a question of the day, or vocabulary word of the day, and respond via email?

 

 

BEST of luck in working a comfortable amount of natural discussion into your day. Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Shmead]

You might have him read the material you are going to discuss aloud to you once or twice. One, this gets him warmed up to talk. Second, you can watch his face as he reads and sees which bits he reacts to emotionally, and which bits confuse him. Start by asking questions about the bits he reacts to emotionally, because that gets him going and makes him feel confident. Then start asking about the parts that confused him, and help him figure it out.

[Candid]

Or maybe this is more of a thinker vs talker problem. We are not great talkers in my immediate family. We spend a great amount of time in our heads since we are a family of introverts. Long intellectual discussions about works of art, literature or history just don't happen. We art interested in intellectually stimulating things, we just don't talk about them.

 

This was not something that either dh or I had growing up either in school or at home

 

Has anyone had to get over something similar in order to get through the later years of school? If you did how did you do it?

 

 

Your children are old enough to understand this is a skill they need and to begin to use it. Both my dad are introverts but can talk up a storm (people just drain us of energy) so I know it is not the introvert part. I think it is more the don't want to talk part, and they need to learn to do it. They will if they go to college be in classes where it is necessary. Even science is very much about team approaches, loan wolves don't get grants for the most part, teams do.

 

You need to begin to lead those discussions. Either come up with ones on your own or buy a program that uses them.

[MomatHWTK]

When I was in a situation requiring discussion, I found that many students spoke far too much apparently in fascination with the sound of their own voices. I also found that professors were able to determine who knew the material and who just liked to talk. Being able to provide relevant input is important, but based on my experience I wouldn't worry too much about quantity rather focus on quality.

[Tracy]

I was extremely introverted as a child. But I was actually won over to the Socratic method in 8th grade through writing rather than through talking. There was a lot of discussion in that class that I did not participate in. In addition, though, we were required to keep a journal and turn it in each week. I would turn in my journal thinking I was sure to get an "A." But it almost always came back with a "B" and all kinds of questions about what I thought about X, how I felt about Y, and why I wrote about Z. Although it was immensely frustrating at the time, it forced me to ask questions that no one had ever required me to ask, let alone answer, before. I came to so enjoy those questions and answers that by the time I got to high school, I couldn't stop interrupting the teachers with my questions.

 

So I would suggest that a good start would be to keep a journal that you both write in and respond to each other's questions. If they really do like intellectual things, they will eventually begin to see the benefit of the Socratic discussion.