DD doesn't like to read, doesn't want to read... (Reading-Reflex question)

[alisoncooks]

PLEASE SEE POST #20 OR #24 BEFORE REPLYING.

 

I am at a loss for teaching my oldest to read (she's nearly 7, in 1st).
In the last few months we have tried several programs, but always hit a point where we cannot progress. She says she hates to read, doesn't want to learn.... but she loves books. I think her confidence is shaken and I'm sure it's mostly my fault for curriculum hopping. (In my defense, we stick with something a few months but when she makes no progress at all, I start looking around a new approach.) We are currently stuck in CVC-wasteland, with much struggling, letter reversal, guessing, confusion and tears.

I've tried many of the "popular" programs with little success (AAR, HOP, Phonics Pathways, R&S, ETC, OPGTR).... but now I'm considering moving on to more remedial programs. DH had significant reading troubles in school and I'm wondering if DD has "inherited" some of that. (I suspect younger DD might be a quick-to-learn reader -- another reason I want to get older DD up and going before she gets "passed.")

I've been looking at:
Reading Reflex *top contender*
Dancing Bears *2nd choice*
ABeCeDarian *though I'm not sure about this*

I'm also thinking of starting something like Apples & Pears (we currently do not do a spelling program, but I was wondering if this would help...) I really cannot afford any expensive programs (looked at Barton and Wilson, but those are way out of my league)....

Thoughts? Reading Reflex fans? Can I do RR and Apples & Pears concurrently? (Or does A&P do better with DB?)

[Joshin]

My 7 year old was a very, very reluctant reader. According to him there was no point, other people could read to him, and he didn't want to. I had to find his motivation (for him it was "you can't work for NASA unless you can read") then I had to get rid of all the fluff. That pretty much meant no curriculum at all. he knew his letter sounds already, so I just threw together a weekly plan of going over each main blend set and the digraphs, one at a time, then we did 10 minutes of activities to practice them. I also spent some time teaching two or three sight words each week. It seemed as he gained confidence in being able to quickly recognize a few words, he was more willing to sound out and try to read other words. Listening to him now you would have no idea that he couldn't read anything five months ago.

 

It really was the extra stuff in most curricula that was holding him back. By the time they moved on to the next thing, he had forgotten everything from before because of all the extra games, songs, and such thrown in. When presented with the bare bones of "this is how you do it" he was able to progress much easier. I combined my plan with daily reading, but we took turns -- he would read a sentence then I would read the next. This way he didn't lose the thread of the story when he stumbled, which frustrated him and was further taking the fun out of reading.

 

If you would like, I can PM you the list and curriculum I put together for him. I stopped updating it about halfway through when reading clicked for him, but it has the basics I was doing for each week and a full listing of the phonics blends we were covering.

[wapiti]

You might find this recent thread on reading instruction interesting, maybe for later if not for now: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/450226-decoding-multisyllable-words-by-chunking/

Other than looking at different programs, you might also rule out developmental vision issues with a covd optometrist

Personally, I've been intriqued by Dancing Bears but I have no experience with it. Good luck!

Edited September 15, 2016 by wapiti

[MinivanMom]

I vote for Reading Reflex. I am a huge fan. It's cheap, simple, and straightforward. There is no fluff. It is probably the easiest way to teach any child to read. I've never understood why it isn't more popular. I used to tutor part-time and I used it to reteach many struggling readers. Later I used it to teach both of my older children to read.

 

I don't know about the possible genetic component, but research has shown that some children simply need more instruction to learn to read. I would have to go dig around on my bookshelf for actual figures and citations, but this is what I remember off the top of my head:

*Some children simply get reading. It's enough to just expose them to books and read aloud to them a lot. They have an ability to break down the code on their own.

*Other children need phonics instruction. They need someone to teach them what sound each letter (or letter combination) represents. They will not figure it out without direct instruction. Once they get that phonics instruction, though, they will take off as readers.

*The last group of children needs to be taught phonemic awareness. For them it is not enough to just teach phonics. They need someone to teach them how to break apart the individual sounds in words. They will not figure it out without direct instruction.

 

This is what Reading Reflex does. It doesn't just teach phonics, it teaches phonemic awareness. I've never used them, but my understanding is that All About Reading and Synthetic Phonics are other programs that include phonemic awareness activities. There are probably others that I'm not aware of. This is what you probably want to be looking for in whichever program you choose. Any program that uses "word families" is not teaching phonemic awareness. Any program that teaches "sight words" may not even be teaching thorough phonics. You want to look for a program where words are broken down to the phoneme level and the child has the opportunity to manipulate those phonemes.

 

You may want to hold off on a spelling program. Choose one good phonics program to use. Work through that first. Once you've finished the phonics instruction, then you can move onto a spelling program. Using both at once is overkill.

[pollo_la]

Well, nearly 7 is still young!! I wouldn't necessarily worry about the younger one surpassing the older one either. We have this situation, and honestly, it hasn't been a problem. They each know they have their own strengths. If I were you I would take a break from ALL reading curriculum for 2 solid weeks. THEN... I would start with a "spelling program." Forget about reading for a couple months all together. Apples and Pears looks really fantastic, and it will also be "sneaky" and work on those reading skills as well.

 

ETA: And make sure you do lots of reading aloud (which I'm guessing you probably already do). :-)

[boscopup]

1) Have you had her eyes checked yet? (covd.org)

 

2) I agree with a PP to take a BREAK. In fact, I'd say break for a month or two - a nice, long, noticeable break.

 

3) Dancing Bears is excellent for this type of child. I haven't used A&P with it (I used it for a bit with a child who reads well), but I'd probably start DB first, then decide later whether to do A&P. How is her spelling?

 

My dad didn't read until 8 or so. He was very advanced once reading clicked. He thinks in pictures, and around age 8 is when such kids often are able to start reading. He says he's mildly dyslexic, but I didn't know that until we were talking about my son last year. He was a successful engineer for many years! My son is very similar to him, and I believe he thinks in pictures also. We haven't gotten out of CVC/CCVC/CVCC/CCVCC land much yet, but we'll get there. He still sounds out "big". Though he's loving the Star Wars Phonics set I got him. If they have a set based on something your girl is interested in, it might be worth picking up. :)

[cherylw]

Wow, I just checked out RR and it looks great...but don't they all. :bored: I'm struggling with a dyslexic 11ds with reading. He is currently using A&P spellling that I am pleased with so far. Is the RR book all you need? I noticed there are other wookbooks on the Read Amercia site, are those neccesary? I don't really see a lot of explanation.

[MinivanMom]

Wow, I just checked out RR and it looks great...but don't they all. :bored: I'm struggling with a dyslexic 11ds with reading. He is currently using A&P spellling that I am pleased with so far. Is the RR book all you need? I noticed there are other wookbooks on the Read Amercia site, are those neccesary? I don't really see a lot of explanation.

 

The only thing you need is the Reading Reflex book ($12.46 on Amazon). You will have to cut it up a little in order to use the phonemic awareness activities. I made photocopies so that I wouldn't have to cut up my book. I have heard of people purchasing two books, so that they can cut up one and still have the other. Unless you have access to free (or very cheap) copying, I say just buy one book and cut the darn thing up. I've organized all the activities into individual envelopes to keep track of everything. I have the enveloped numbered from Activity number 1 to Activity number 91 and I keep them in an old shoebox. It is the best, most inexpensive curriculum we have ever purchased. You don't need anything else, not a blessed thing.

 

I just wanted to add that when I quit teaching after having my first child, I tutored part-time for several years. It was mostly reading remediation for children at our local elementary school who weren't grasping reading and had been referred for special ed evaluations. I got every one of them reading fluently and consequently they didn't qualify for special ed as their reading scores were too high. I have seen it really work well for remediation situations.

[alisoncooks]

Thanks for the feedback!

I did go ahead and order RR (yay for Prime, it'll be here Thursday and I can read it over the weekend.)

[MeganW]

That was me in June. My kids weren't even reading CVC words, and I had been through the first 50+ lessons of OPGTR like 5 times. I finally got so frustrated I hired an Academic Associates tutor. Best money I ever spent! Her lessons were not very different from OPGTR, but her demeanor was night and day from mine. This woman had the patience of Job. She never got stressed. She never got annoyed. She didn't say "come on - try!". She would point, and just sit there. Eventually, the kid read the word. Fast forward 6 months, and all four of my kids are reading on a 3rd+ grade level. :) I am glad I managed to swallow my pride and outsource this!

[braymalena]

Glad you are giving RR a whirl! I tried a lot of different programs with my dd and nothing seemed to work. Things finally clicked when we used RR. It is a great program... super simple, but effective!

[Familyties]

I am using a program called Right Track Reading. I am using the second book called Back on the Right Track Reading for my 5th grader. He has always struggled with phonics which lead to reading problems. We are halfway through the book and I have to say it is working! My son is reading SO much better. The books are not expensive which is nice. Here is the website with more detailed information.

 

http://www.righttrackreading.com/index.html

 

Here are a couple reviews on the second book...couldn't find any on the first book off Amazon.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Right-Track-Reading-Lessons-Step-/dp/0976329018/

 

Here is some more info on it..

 

http://www.proteacher.net/discussions/showthread.php?t=237560

 

Hope this helps!!

[redsquirrel]

I love Reading Reflex. I used it with both my boys as our reading instruction.

[cherylw]

I am going to order it!! Thanks for the info!!!

[AmyinMD]

I used Reading Reflex with my now 15 yo that had a lot of trouble with reading. That combined with vision therapy made a big difference for her.

 

Also for CVC words my 8 y o that has dyslexia just did Book 1 of Primary Phonics and it definitely helped and I think it would work well with RR. It's this one and is fairly inexpensive. You don't need the whole program. We are just using the workbooks and they have been really great for my struggling reader. We are also using an Orton-Gillingham tutor and ETC books right now.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Primary-Phonics-Workbook-Barbara-Makar/dp/0838803601/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1358953187&sr=8-1&keywords=primary+phonics

[alisoncooks]

I used Reading Reflex with my now 15 yo that had a lot of trouble with reading. That combined with vision therapy made a big difference for her.

 

Also for CVC words my 8 y o that has dyslexia just did Book 1 of Primary Phonics and it definitely helped and I think it would work well with RR. It's this one and is fairly inexpensive. You don't need the whole program. We are just using the workbooks and they have been really great for my struggling reader. We are also using an Orton-Gillingham tutor and ETC books right now.

 

http://www.amazon.co...primary phonics

I have this set. I really like the readers and the workbooks (I like these workbooks more than ETC, actually.) They've been good practice for DD.

[amazzie]

My son was in the same place as your daughter about a year ago. I tried Reading Reflex, and he did it, didn't mind it and we saw no progress. But eventually I made my way to Dancing Bears and it really really changed his reading. He can read fluently now on about a second grade level. It was quite the slog and he didn't like it, but who cares! He can read and that's what's important.

[alisoncooks]

My son was in the same place as your daughter about a year ago. I tried Reading Reflex, and he did it, didn't mind it and we saw no progress. But eventually I made my way to Dancing Bears and it really really changed his reading. He can read fluently now on about a second grade level. It was quite the slog and he didn't like it, but who cares! He can read and that's what's important.

Yeah, RR was cheaper :p so we'll give it a go first.... but if it doesn't show any improvement in her reading, then we'll probably go to DB next. I did go ahead and buy Apples & Pears (just to have a look at it, possibly for next year...)

 

And DD hasn't liked ANY of the phonics we've tried, not even the "fun" ones (*cough*....AAR.... :glare: ).

[rachelpants]

Alison....I know this is an old thread....sorry for the bump. I was just wondering your thoughts on RR (since it looks like you ordered it). Thaks!

[alisoncooks]

Alison....I know this is an old thread....sorry for the bump. I was just wondering your thoughts on RR (since it looks like you ordered it). Thaks!

 

It was a lot of work to set it all up (cutting the little pages and storage)!  I did all that and we did get through several lessons.  I really liked the approach in the first half of the book (the "basic code").  I liked the variety and the activities.  

 

That said, once you get to the "advanced code" section, the "hand-holding" really disappeared.  It was just a little too much for me to figure out -- I need something open-and-go.  My DD was already reading CVC words fairly well before we tried RR, and I was hoping that this would help her move on into long vowels and such... but that section of the book wasn't as explicit in its instruction, IMO.

 

We switched to Dancing Bears and it has worked well for us.  We've just finished Book A, and DD is reading beginning books (Horse in Harry's Room, Fox on the Job, Danny & the Dinosaur).  She's still behind but has made a lot of progress. :)

[ElizabethB]

Any of those programs would be good!

 

I would get talking letter factory for basic sounds, also while you are taking a break this summer, she can play on read, write, type, it is pretty fun and helpful:

 

http://www.talkingfingers.com

 

And my phonics concentration game:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Phonics/concentrationgam.html

 

For a change of pace program, I like School Phonics. It starts with long vowels, which are easier to blend than short vowels. You can just get the two workbooks:

 

http://www.didax.com/shop/searchresults.cfm/Keyword/School%20phonics.cfm

 

And I like these charts for children who take a while to learn sounds, easier for everyone to point to the chart instead of repeating the sounds of the letters:

 

https://www.phonovisual.com/products.php?c=1

 

Finally, here is how and why to teach the sight words phonetically and how and why teaching them as wholes can hinder reading progress:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/sightwords.html

[Matryoshka]

It was a lot of work to set it all up (cutting the little pages and storage)!  I did all that and we did get through several lessons.  I really liked the approach in the first half of the book (the "basic code").  I liked the variety and the activities.  

 

That said, once you get to the "advanced code" section, the "hand-holding" really disappeared.  It was just a little too much for me to figure out -- I need something open-and-go.  My DD was already reading CVC words fairly well before we tried RR, and I was hoping that this would help her move on into long vowels and such... but that section of the book wasn't as explicit in its instruction, IMO.

 

I used RR for all three of my kids.  I have no idea if they would have had problems with another program, but my brother, my uncle, and dh are all dyslexic, so I figured I'd just go with something that would work in case they were.

 

Worked great for all three.  I also had the envelopes all set up (I also photocopied and cut those), and you need a little white board.  That's it.  For the next kid, then you have to do nothing.  I like that there's no book.  I like the phonemic awareness 'tests' to make sure the kids are ready to start (along with exercises to get them there).

 

None of my kids had to do much after the Basic Code - I got Bob books and other phonic readers from the library and when we got to new 'sound pictures', I just explained them a la RR.  I hung a copy of the consonant and vowel sound picture/sound correspondences on the wall and referred to them as needed.

 

One dd did take a little longer, and I found that there was a workbook for Advanced Code put out by I think Roy Everson?  Who I think is sometimes on this board...  If you can't find that, ABeCeDarian is also PhonoGraphix-based (the RR method), and in workbook form.  I think they have workbooks that go through Advanced Code.  (BTW of course as soon as I got that workbook for the Advanced Code, that dd took off and I think about 3-4 pages got done...)

 

But I love, love, love RR.  No muss, no fuss, no memorizing rules or 'blends' or anything at all.  Just a book, little envelopes and a white board.  Best $16 (that's what the book cost then) I ever spent.  It taught me how to teach reading so I never needed any bells or whistles.  I used the same explanations/methods to explain the spelling patterns when we used Sequential Spelling.

 

[Vida Winter]

Whatever reading program you choose, be sure to read aloud plenty of interesting, funny, gorgeous picture books of all sorts.

[alisoncooks]

OLD THREAD ALERT!

 

(Not that I mind, I just wanted to make note, in case people were not noticing.)

 

I did start this thread in Jan. of 2013.  DD is reading much better and has a desire to read now.  She still struggles (is about a year behind grade level) but we are trucking away with our reading program (Dancing Bears).  As I noted a few posts above, DD has recently become able to read "real" books (current read:  Fox on the Job) and that has been very motivating for her.

[Ellie]

I am at a loss for teaching my oldest to read (she's nearly 7, in 1st).

In the last few months we have tried several programs, but always hit a point where we cannot progress. She says she hates to read, doesn't want to learn.... but she loves books. I think her confidence is shaken and I'm sure it's mostly my fault for curriculum hopping. (In my defense, we stick with something a few months but when she makes no progress at all, I start looking around a new approach.) We are currently stuck in CVC-wasteland, with much struggling, letter reversal, guessing, confusion and tears.

 

I've tried many of the "popular" programs with little success (AAR, HOP, Phonics Pathways, R&S, ETC, OPGTR).... but now I'm considering moving on to more remedial programs. DH had significant reading troubles in school and I'm wondering if DD has "inherited" some of that. (I suspect younger DD might be a quick-to-learn reader -- another reason I want to get older DD up and going before she gets "passed.")

 

I've been looking at:

Reading Reflex *top contender*

Dancing Bears *2nd choice*

ABeCeDarian *though I'm not sure about this*

 

I'm also thinking of starting something like Apples & Pears (we currently do not do a spelling program, but I was wondering if this would help...) I really cannot afford any expensive programs (looked at Barton and Wilson, but those are way out of my league)....

 

Thoughts? Reading Reflex fans? Can I do RR and Apples & Pears concurrently? (Or does A&P do better with DB?)

 

None of the above.

 

Spalding.

 

Although when you think about it, she's not yet seven, and you've "tried" *six* widely varied methods. I'm not surprised that she says she doesn't want to read and doesn't like to read.

 

It couldn't hurt to get some sort of professional evaluation, but she wouldn't be the first child who has no actual learning difficulties who was stymied by having so many different things thrown at her in a short amount of time.

 

Personally, I would put everything away for a few months and just read aloud to her from good books, without any stealth instruction, and then I would do Spalding.

 

[alisoncooks]

Thank you for the replies.  

Please see my post above.