x-post - Need help with sequencing science for 7-8th grade for AP in HS

[prim*rose]

Posted on the K-8 board & posting here in case any veterans have any insight :)

 

I have a very science-motivated 6th grade daughter and I'm trying to figure out sequencing of science so she can do AP bio, chem & physics in high school. Her goal is to be an astrophysicist and she wants to go to Harvard or MIT. I'm trying to come up with a way that makes sense to do the next few years of science, so she can take online AP classes in high school (or at a minimum, the AP tests). We're viewing the AP credits as validation of her knowledge, not something that will count as college credit.

 

That said, I'm wondering if we should do a high school level bio or chem for 7th grade, to serve as a first layer in working towards the AP class. I'm not sure what order we should do things in, so any advice or guidance on that, as well as secular high school level curriculum would be greatly appreciated. This is all new to us, and I'm just trying to ensure the timing on everything works out :)

 

Thank you!

[regentrude]

A regular non-AP bio is a good idea in middle school, as long as it does not go too much into the biochemistry part. Conceptual chemistry may serve as a good precursor to a later AP chemistry course.

I personally prefer to start the high school sequence with algebra based physics, because physics is a prerequisite for chemistry, which in turn is needed for biology. Then chemistry, bio, and calculus based physics.

The biggest constraint for the science sequencing of most students will be the math skills. The typical high school sequence starts with bio for the sole reason that schools teach algebra 1 so late that the average student does not have the math prerequisite for anything else in 9th grade. If your DD has a serious science interest and is aiming for schools like MIT, I would strongly encourage you to step up her math preparation so that she can take calculus before senior year and can finish her high school science sequence with calculus based physics. What exactly you do in middle school sciences will, to a certain degree, depend on her math skills. A regular chemistry course needs algebra up to exponentials and logarithms; she probably may not have this in 7th grade, but Conceptual Chemistry by Suchocki is a good choice.

You asked for secular high school level curriculum: I found most high school science texts useless and much prefer to use introductory college texts for non-majors which are of far superior quality than what passes for high school science books. As a gentle high school bio, I like Campbell's Exploring Life (reserve Campbell's Concepts and Connections or Biology for AP). For algebra based physics, my favorite text is Knight College Physics. I have used Change:General Chemistry for chemistry(no AP).

[Gwen in VA]

What we did -- (4 kids so I use "or" to cover the various permutations!)

 

9th grade -- biology & geometry

10th grade -- chemistry or AP Chemistry & algebra 2

11th grade -- AP Chemistry or AP Physics B & precalculus

12th grade -- AP Physics B or an "unusual" science with Calculus 1 & Calculus 2 (two of my kids have skipped science that year, including the one currently in a Ph.D. program in engineering!) If your child is seriously interested in MIT, do NOT skip science senior year!

 

AP Physics B is easy enough that it can be done as a first exposure to physics.

 

For AP Chemistry, I would recommend a prior class. We ended up having one child do AP Chem with no prior chemistry exposure, and it was doable but tough.

 

If your child is interested in MIT --

1) Your child can take more than one science in a year. This option may make doing multiple science AP's easier. Our local high school does block scheduling, so many of my kids' friends have done three and even four science AP's during junior and senior year.

2) Don't forget to find time to fit in a computer programming class or two! This is strongly recommended for those interested in engineering!

3) Math is really important. Go deep, don't rush, and get through calculus 1 at an absolute minimum.

[Kathy in Richmond]

My son is an MIT grad, and my daughter was also accepted there. Their math and science course progressions are listed in this older thread. Both of them took the three AP sciences (chem, bio, and calc-based physics) during high school. But if you'd asked me back when my oldest was in sixth grade and we were starting out homeschooling, I would not have known that would happen! We definitely took things one year at a time.

 

During the elementary and middle school years, our science goals were based on encouraging curiosity and a sense of wonder in the natural and physical worlds. We were not very textbook oriented in those pre-high school years, but rather spent our time naturally: reading library books on various science topics, paging through science encyclopedias, subscribing to science and nature magazines, visiting and taking classes at our science museum (and many others during vacation travels), working on Boy Scout badges (weather, geology, environmental science, astronomy,..), keeping nature journals, taking things apart, working through some lab science books and kits (kitchen chemistry was a hit here), Lego Dacta kits and electronics stuff from Radio Shack, and learning the basics of computer programming (my son especially loved programming games in Basic).

 

During these kinds of activities, we tried to leave time for discussions and lots of what-if questions. The bonus of not following a curriculum was that we had time to follow bunny trails when topics lit a spark in one of the kids. We did make time for Rainbow Science during middle school as a good (but not too time consuming) intro to textbook learning. The Rainbow labs were lots of fun!

 

Another important thing we did before high school was to work on math skills and reading comprehension skills. Having rock solid skills in both areas help a LOT in studying college level science.

 

AP sciences (chem and especially physics) have math prerequisites as others have described in this thread. Even more importantly, math problem-solving skills (think courses like AoPS math) build reasoning skills, which are super important once you get to these sciences. Instead of memorizing countless formulas, a student with good reasoning ability will be able to produce most of these formulas on the fly from first principles.

 

Good reading speed and comprehension skills will enable a student to read a dense science textbook, follow the examples, & pick out and summarize the important points without spending hours per week and feeling lost in a sea of details.

 

MIT also looks for more than just good science and math test results. They like to see demonstrated interest in a STEM field in the student's choice of extracurriculars and free time activities. Middle school is not too soon to watch your child to see what lights her/his passions & to get involved somehow. One of my kids was really into all things computer science, building electronics & robotics, doing CS competitions, studying advanced CS stuff at summer camps, etc, while the other was passionate about math and spent much of her free time participating in various math camps, teams, and the AoPS community online.

 

Have fun!

[Barbara H]

Hello,

You've gotten a lot of good advice. It isn't for everyone, but it worked well for us not to do multiple years of the same science. So, we didn't do a year of bio and then a year of AP bio. We just went straight to AP bio. The same thing worked well for us with chemistry. It worked in part though because we did self designed courses and we had control over the pacing. If your student is going straight into a structured AP course online, it would be good to get some foundation or budget some extra time for the course. One thing I would suggest on sequencing is to make sure your student has a good foundation in chemistry before they do AP bio because otherwise they can really struggle with the earlier material.

[prim*rose]

Thank you all so much for your helpful feedback & suggestions! Kathy, your response put my mind at ease. I want to make sure I don't let my daughter down, and give her the best chances possible. She's been involved in robotics, 4H and wants to volunteer at the local observatory, and I want to make sure she has time for these hands-on activities. There are times when I feel a little overwhelmed and not sure if we're doing all we need to be for her to reach her full potential. Thanks for talking me down from the ledge :)

 

She's going to be finishing up pre-algebra and intro to geometry (very basic, no proofs or anything) in the next few months, and we were looking at AoPS for Algebra 1. I feel like that's the right choice for her right now after reading all these responses.

[PeterPan]

No experience getting a dc into MIT, and my dd is a humanities person anyway. However the high school I went to did what Barbara said, allowing you to jump directly into AP classes. I did this for chem and physics, and it's definitely fine for a bright, ready student. However you notice what Kathy mentioned about a survey course like Rainbow that hit the basics in middle school? Well that's what I DIDN'T get, somehow in changing from school to school over those years. I think that hands-on experience of seeing reactions and seeing eggs drop in parachutes and making the circuits is really important. Reading comprehension is connected to those prior experiences and your ability to visualize and have a clue what you're seeing. So my advice would be to plan strong middle school experiences that allow her to go directly into the AP if she wants. The BJU physical science is good (actually all 3 middle school books), Rainbow, Prentice Hall CIA (Concepts in Action), the conceptual physics and chem books, whatever. I'm just saying that's where my hole was, in the real world side, seeing the stuff happen so I could have a clue what I was reading about. That's where I've been putting my money with my dd.

[prim*rose]

Thanks, Elizabeth! It makes me feel better knowing she can go straight into AP with just an overview like Rainbow.

[omd21]

Great thread!

[8filltheheart]

This is an old resurrected thread. Just thought I'd pt it out. ;)

[omd21]

This is an old resurrected thread. Just thought I'd pt it out. ;)

I love looking through these old threads! They are so helpful! :)

[swimmermom3]

A regular non-AP bio is a good idea in middle school, as long as it does not go too much into the biochemistry part. Conceptual chemistry may serve as a good precursor to a later AP chemistry course.

I personally prefer to start the high school sequence with algebra based physics, because physics is a prerequisite for chemistry, which in turn is needed for biology. Then chemistry, bio, and calculus based physics.

The biggest constraint for the science sequencing of most students will be the math skills. The typical high school sequence starts with bio for the sole reason that schools teach algebra 1 so late that the average student does not have the math prerequisite for anything else in 9th grade. If your DD has a serious science interest and is aiming for schools like MIT, I would strongly encourage you to step up her math preparation so that she can take calculus before senior year and can finish her high school science sequence with calculus based physics. What exactly you do in middle school sciences will, to a certain degree, depend on her math skills. A regular chemistry course needs algebra up to exponentials and logarithms; she probably may not have this in 7th grade, but Conceptual Chemistry by Suchocki is a good choice.

You asked for secular high school level curriculum: I found most high school science texts useless and much prefer to use introductory college texts for non-majors which are of far superior quality than what passes for high school science books. As a gentle high school bio, I like Campbell's Exploring Life (reserve Campbell's Concepts and Connections or Biology for AP). For algebra based physics, my favorite text is Knight College Physics. I have used Change:General Chemistry for chemistry(no AP).

 

I really want to emphasize the part regentrude has in bold. I know that the OP is talking about AP subjects, so of course it makes sense to use college texts for that, but I would highly encourage parents of average to accelerated students to look at introductory college texts as opposed to high school texts. My older son used a Pearson Algebra 2 text at our local public school and had to routinely refer to our Foerster and even our Saxon texts for better explanations. Many of today's high school texts offer a definition and maybe a couple of sentences as best to explain a topic and then provide a few examples. They are written at a surface level and require the student to spend very little time with them since terminology is highlighted as are core ideas. They give you enough information to regurgitate basic answers on a basic test; they do little in the way of encouraging the student to think deeply about the subject  or to ask questions that generate excitement for the discipline.

 

Even if your student struggles with a high school text, I would encourage you to at least have them look at a college text, maybe read about the same topic. Sometimes I think we sell our kids short and say they don't get something when I think what they need is a bit more information that is of a higher quality.

 

OP - I am currently seeing the payoff for using Rainbow Science in middle school. Ds remembered all about losing and gaining electrons yesterday when we were talking about atomic structure in chemistry. "I can see the little green electron from Rainbow Science. Now I totally get it."

 

[swimmermom3]

That always happens when I don't read through to the end. :blushing:  I never notice the date of the thread unless it sounds vaguely familiar.