Would this bother you? (In-law related)

[misty.warden]

I don't see where there was any "sowing secrecy."

 

I don't see how the granny is in the wrong for giving a kid a kiddy book. She was NOT informed of the child's issues. If she had concerns about one of her grandchildren's behavior and brought it up with her parent, they would be the ones to choose how much information she needed to know and if her gesture was appropriate and welcome. A sibling may not know what steps the parents are taking or the extent of the issue either, exactly why they should not be used as a middleman for the message stepMIL is trying to send.

 

I don't believe a grandparent has to "inform" the parent that she spoke to her grandchild during a family get-together. If it was a chat about something other than behavioral issues of the grandchild's sibling, I'd agree with you. The act of speaking didn't need permission, a sibling is simply not the appropriate person to be the first, and seemingly only, person she should have talked to about her concerns.

 

I don't believe there is anything wrong with a grandparent speaking to a child about her sibling in the way that was done here, i.e., 'she seems to need comforting and here's a way you can comfort her.' I'll repeat this part again for emphasis: She told middle dd that she should let youngest dd know that in spite of messing up a lot, God would forgive her if she confessed her sins to him. That's not advising the comforting of her sibling, that's implying that the 7-year old is "messing up a lot" and needs to be reminded that she can be forgiven for acting this way. Not knowing this child's understanding of sin and responsibility nor the details of what's causing her anxiety, this seems a very confusing suggestion at best.

 

Perhaps there is more to the story, but in general, I think it's a good thing when a grandmother has a heart-to-heart with an 11yo granddaughter, and it doesn't require permission nor reporting. In general, I completely agree. Talking about the situation and how her middle dgd might be feeling and how to help would be something I would agree with as a parent, IF the grandmother knew what she was talking about. If grandma is in the dark, she's making a rather large assumption that there is something wrong and that this book is a good way to handle it. Dispensing advice in an information vacuum isn't what I'd call helpful unless it was a much less specific type like "let your sister know that even if she's having a hard time, we still all love her/she can always talk to God about it." Maybe I'm living on another planet. As a matter of fact, my kids are with their grandma right now, for 3 days, and I have no intentions of asking what they discussed "behind my back." Honestly, this is irrelevant. Talking to your children without you present is not the issue, talking to a child about another child's behavior problems without confirming with a parent that there is even an issue is. This next part is in the calmest voice I can muster: If you're fine with your mother or MIL or anyone other than your child's father telling one of your children to pass on to their 7-year old sibling that they need God's forgiveness for "acting funny" without even asking you if there is a problem and/or how you're handling it, then you are on a different planet than me, personally.

 

And by the way, it's quite natural for grandparents to pass along religious ideas to the younger generations. Been happening for millennia, right? Suddenly in this generation it's spoken of like child abuse. Yeah, that disturbs me. These are only words - gentle ones at that. Not what I was saying was the problem. The religious content of the book and whether or not OP would want that passed on to her children was secondary to my concern that the step-MIL was discussing with another child the behavior of a sibling and steps she should take to help fix it without saying anything to the parent about the same issue to find out if her suggestion would be helpful. That is being secretive.

[gardenmom5]

And by the way, it's quite natural for grandparents to pass along religious ideas to the younger generations. Been happening for millennia, right? Suddenly in this generation it's spoken of like child abuse.

 

try again. this has aboslutely NOTHING to do with a grandparent sharing her religious ideas - whether they are the same as the parents or not.

 

what part of "she's seven years old" and her grandmother is telling the 11 yo her 7yo sister is "bad" (and that's why she's having problems) don't you understand? and she's doing it all behind the parents back - probably because she knows they'd object. nothing the grandmother did was actually conducive to a loving healthy relationship.

 

Or do you feel seven year old children do commit sin that they need to go to God/priest/whomever to confess their sins so they won't be punished by feeling anxious?

[SKL]

 

Or do you feel seven year old children do commit sin that they need to go to God/priest/whomever to confess their sins so they won't be punished by feeling anxious?

 

 

Well, I have a 6-year-old who is definitely stressing out over her difficulty with making good/bad choices. It would not offend me if her granny gave her a book intended to help her make better choices.

 

I see a lot of loaded language here. Nobody said anxiety is a punishment. However, guilt and anxiety are realities for all of us when we know we've made avoidable mistakes. Guilt can also cause us to act out. And letting go of guilt is very healing. I'd be happy for my kids to understand these realities - the sooner, the better.

 

Unfortunately, children often feel guilt for things that are not their fault, as could be the case if the OP's suspicions are correct. But again, Granny does not know about OP's suspicions.

 

"Sin" is not defined the same way by everyone. I don't know what the granny meant exactly, but it's a bit foolish IMO to pretend that a 7yo never makes poor choices. It is pretty mainstream Christian to teach children that everyone sins and that children are born in sin. I wouldn't actually put it that way myself, but I was taught this as a young child and I survived. It's not the same as singling out one child as if she is an evil person and others are not.

 

Obviously there is more to this story, and the OP has her reasons for not sharing it. I don't believe the granny just happened to pull her observations out of the air. However, I prefer not to speculate about the substance of what Granny must have observed, as it would not be helpful.

[gardenmom5]

My step-MIL pulled middle dd into another room and suggested that she read it to our youngest and tell her that no matter how badly she messes up, God will always love her. Middle dd asked what she meant and step-MIL said that she could tell that youngest dd was "acting funny" lately. She told middle dd that she should let youngest dd know that in spite of messing up a lot, God would forgive her if she confessed her sins to him.

 

 

 

I see a lot of loaded language here. Nobody said anxiety is a punishment. However, guilt and anxiety are realities for all of us when we know we've made avoidable mistakes. Guilt can also cause us to act out. And letting go of guilt is very healing. I'd be happy for my kids to understand these realities - the sooner, the better.

 

Unfortunately, children often feel guilt for things that are not their fault, as could be the case if the OP's suspicions are correct. But again, Granny does not know about OP's suspicions.

 

"Sin" is not defined the same way by everyone. I don't know what the granny meant exactly, but it's a bit foolish IMO to pretend that a 7yo never makes poor choices. It is pretty mainstream Christian to teach children that everyone sins and that children are born in sin. I wouldn't actually put it that way myself, but I was taught this as a young child and I survived. It's not the same as singling out one child as if she is an evil person and others are not.

 

Obviously there is more to this story, and the OP has her reasons for not sharing it. I don't believe the granny just happened to pull her observations out of the air. However, I prefer not to speculate about the substance of what Granny must have observed, as it would not be helpful.

 

"granny" as you call her, was the one who labeled the 7yo's behavior as a reaction to "sin" - whatever the grandmother meant. "granny" IS the one to suggest the little girl's struggles are due to "messing up, and that she needs to confess her sins" in order to feel better. no one was putting words in "granny's" mouth.

 

please explain how children feeling "guilt" for things "not their fault" is relevant to the "granny" stating the 7 yo is "messing up" and needs to "confess her sins to God?"

[SKL]

"granny" as you call her, was the one who labeled the 7yo's behavior as a reaction to "sin" - whatever the grandmother meant. "granny" IS the one to suggest the little girl's struggles are due to "messing up, and that she needs to confess her sins" in order to feel better. no one was putting words in "granny's" mouth.

 

please explain how children feeling "guilt" for things "not their fault" is relevant to the "granny" stating the 7 yo is "messing up" and needs to "confess her sins to God?"

 

 

I am pretty sure we're never going to agree on this, so I'm ready to give it a rest.

[misty.warden]

 

Well, I have a 6-year-old who is definitely stressing out over her difficulty with making good/bad choices. It would not offend me if her granny gave her a book intended to help her make better choices.

 

I see a lot of loaded language here. Nobody said anxiety is a punishment. However, guilt and anxiety are realities for all of us when we know we've made avoidable mistakes. Guilt can also cause us to act out. And letting go of guilt is very healing. I'd be happy for my kids to understand these realities - the sooner, the better.

 

Unfortunately, children often feel guilt for things that are not their fault, as could be the case if the OP's suspicions are correct. But again, Granny does not know about OP's suspicions.

 

"Sin" is not defined the same way by everyone. I don't know what the granny meant exactly, but it's a bit foolish IMO to pretend that a 7yo never makes poor choices. It is pretty mainstream Christian to teach children that everyone sins and that children are born in sin. I wouldn't actually put it that way myself, but I was taught this as a young child and I survived. It's not the same as singling out one child as if she is an evil person and others are not.

 

Obviously there is more to this story, and the OP has her reasons for not sharing it. I don't believe the granny just happened to pull her observations out of the air. However, I prefer not to speculate about the substance of what Granny must have observed, as it would not be helpful.

 

 

Underlined are the issues I'm not understanding from you. You know the reason for your child's stress, the stepMIL of OP does not know the reason for her gdd's behavior. These situations are not similar, so insisting that something you would accept for your child is automatically ok for another child who may be dealing with a completely different issue boggles my mind. Unless your "survival" of the explanation of sin you received as a child coincided with the same type of issue OP's child is dealing with, your comparison is irrelevant.

 

There is a time and a place to teach children about sin, guilt, and dealing with avoidable mistakes. Assuming that a child "acting funny" is dealing with these specific issues and automatically suggesting a book about forgiveness is a very strange leap of logic. No one said it was impossible for a 7 year old to make poor decisions, but I think one's head must be in a strange place for that to be the first thing to think is going on.

[Slipper]

Sorry I haven't been more responsive, we're dealing with other things today.

 

We do not have the best relationship with FIL/Step-MIL. We had an awful argument with them this summer. One thing that sent us to our therapist was our youngest daughter's reaction to FIL's yelling at DH. Our youngest had nightmares for weeks that FIL would come kill DH. (For the record, we do not suspect FIL of murderous intent or anything else). However, she does not remember, at all, witnessing their actual argument. She has blocked it from her memory completely. It is possible that she has been avoiding them when they visit because she is still frightened of them. She knows that she does not have to be around any adult that makes her uncomfortable.

 

FIL/Step-MIL are deeply religious. We do not currently attend church (although I have found one that we will be trying this Sunday). I don't want my children to learn to "confess their sins". I want them to learn that they can talk to God about anything.

 

While I do not have the best relationship with them, I don't want to burn bridges because the rest of the family will need them when MIL passes. I do plan to talk with them about asking middle dd to intervene on this matter because it's inappropriate. I suspect they think I've been bad-mouthing them to the kids, which I haven't. I've told the kids that everyone has nutty relatives who do strange things and we love them anyway and that they love us. (Nutty because of various things that they do - ignoring the girls' birthdays, not having food available for our celiac daughter, etc - the kids' feelings get hurt).

 

It is my hope that we can resolve our youngest daughter's problems and I will be honest with FIL/Step-MIL about what is happening so they can at least understand my reasoning. If she had approached me, I would have told her that our youngest is having nightmares and a lot of anxiety at the moment. I can't give them more information than that at the moment.

 

I don't feel like step-MIL was trying to have a "granny and me" moment with dd. I feel like she was being manipulative and going behind my back. I'm very proud of my middle daughter for being able to navigate the situation and then tell me about it later. It felt odd to her or she wouldn't have mentioned it. I'm sure she has had plenty of "granny and me" moments with all four of her grandmothers that I know little about. She always tells me if she has done something wrong or if someone asks her to keep a secret. (Of course, usually the secret is that they had two sodas or something else that I am not overly worried about at a grandparents house). I feel that grandparents should spoil and have fun with their grandkids and I let a lot of things slide. But this situation felt wrong.

 

The most important thing is that my youngest does not need to feel like she is to blame because she already feels that way.

[bettyandbob]

It seems your FIL and StepMIL have some distorted views on Christianity. I recall last summer you visited and they took your younger dds to VBS, more to show off themselves not for the girls' benefit. They know your oldest dd has special needs and now your youngest isn't "right" in their view. Are they looking at these problems, as having resulted from sins in your family? If this is the case I would not view these people as a viable support system in the coming months as you MIL's health declines.

 

Whatever their thinking, these people were not supportive last summer. I do not see how to believe they will be any support for the coming stress. You may be better off accepting that they will be no help in the coming months. That way you do not have the added stress of thinking they would be supportive when they are not.

 

Ignore this next bit entirely if you want: is it possible your dh is still trying to be "accepted" by his father. Is that why you seem to be the point person on the current issue and is that why your dh doesn't want to rock the boat with his father. If that's the case, he needs to separate from that now and accept himself. I still remember the day my father realized he would never be good enough according to his father. I was 15. It wasn't dramatic. It took me a while to process what I had witnessed and what it meant. It still makes me sad for my dad.

[Joanne]

Thinking of you.

 

If you have any questions on cirrhosis or on alcoholism, let me know. I'd be happy to help.

[bzymom]

You've gotten a lot of good input already.

 

I'll just add that I would be REALLY angry with this type of sneaky behavior. It is so far out of line, I would be really hard-pressed to have anything more than a distant relationship thereafter. Have concerns? Come to the grownups.

 

No way.

[WTMCassandra]

I'm not going to bother DH with his nutty step-mothers behavior when he is distracted out of his mind about his mother. He has no siblings. He will want (and need) his father in the months to come. I'm just going to let this slide and will talk to step-MIL about it next time we see each other. I do think she crossed a line involving my middle daughter. (With recent birthdays, the girls are 13, 11 and 8). They think I'm over-protective and it probably looks even worse recently since we don't know who to trust right now.

 

Actually, I think it is just BECAUSE you are in the beginning stages of a long, serious crisis that you must tell your DH. Although your intentions are good, I'm concerned that you will inadvertently be encouraging Step-MIL to act up MORE during this time. Even if you speak to her yourself. Especially if you speak to her yourself. This will embolden her because she will know that you will peace-fake and maneuver behind your husband's back (again, very well-intentioned). She will love this drama and control over you and will act up more to see you dance. But your children will get caught in the cross-fire.

 

Habitual boundary-crossers do NOT think the same way we do. And they become much, much worse when either 1) people enable them and contort themselves to keep the peace or 2) there is a big family crisis. Combine the two? Kryptonite.

 

I think you should take your DH out to lunch, ask him how he's feeling about MIL's situation, listen to him for a while, and perhaps, over dessert, tell him gently that you don't want to add to his stress but that you must tell him about this so you can determine a strategy together. Ask him how active a role he wants you to play. The encounter does NOT have to be a vent/dump and run situation where you leave him holding the bag. But I do think he must be told.

[BrookValley.]

I also agree your husband needs to know, but I also understand that is easy for me to say because I don't know everything that is going on with your family. :grouphug:

 

Your MIL's behavior sounds flat-out sneaky and manipulative and just downright icky. Your middle DD is one smart cookie. You are a much more level-headed and thoughtful person than me; I'd have burned that bridge the second I could have gotten the ear of that woman. But I'm just like that (i.e., not nice, and blunt to a fault). The last thing you want is someone meddling in your relationship/interfering with the communication channels between you and your children. You and/or your DH are the people that your children should feel safe going to with their problems; how dare this woman interfere with that? Ugh. I'm sorry. It makes me angry for you.