Would this bother you? (In-law related)

[Slipper]

My husband's dad and step-mother seem determined to dislike me, although I thought things were better between us. They came by today and I didn't worry when they gave me one gift while everyone else received several. After gifts were opened, they handed out cards with money in them, one for every person attending, except for me. That was a bit embarrassing (because it was very obvious) but they were full of smiles, hugs and enthusiastic "I love you's" so I thought maybe it was just me.

 

However, one of the gifts they gave my youngest daughter was Max Lucado's book, "Just in case you ever wondered". My youngest is currently in therapy. Since starting to talk with her therapist, she has started having nightmares, waking up with panic attacks several times at night, afraid of adults, afraid of dying, afraid of her family being killed, afraid of everything it seems. She sleeps with us at night and cannot be alone in any room of the house after dark. She has regressed in almost every area, including academics. Obviously, our home is stressed. None of our relatives know any of this.

 

My middle daughter had read the book previously and had reservations about my youngest reading it. It takes very little to frighten her these days. My step-MIL pulled middle dd into another room and suggested that she read it to our youngest and tell her that no matter how badly she messes up, God will always love her. Middle dd asked what she meant and step-MIL said that she could tell that youngest dd was "acting funny" lately. She told middle dd that she should let youngest dd know that in spite of messing up a lot, God would forgive her if she confessed her sins to him.

 

Middle dd agreed to do it, but didn't. She grabbed the book after they left and found me and told me everything. I'm hurt and furious that my in-laws would not discuss their concerns about our daughter with myself or my husband. I also don't like the secretive attitude they took in asking middle dd to say things to our youngest. I haven't told DH because he's still upset about our last visit with them.

 

I'm trying to look at this objectively. I'm trying to figure out how they meant this kindly. But we're not really happy at the moment with anything resembling "secrets".

[misty.warden]

My husband's dad and step-mother seem determined to dislike me, although I thought things were better between us. They came by today and I didn't worry when they gave me one gift while everyone else received several. After gifts were opened, they handed out cards with money in them, one for every person attending, except for me. That was a bit embarrassing (because it was very obvious) but they were full of smiles, hugs and enthusiastic "I love you's" so I thought maybe it was just me.

 

However, one of the gifts they gave my youngest daughter was Max Lucado's book, "Just in case you ever wondered". My youngest is currently in therapy. Since starting to talk with her therapist, she has started having nightmares, waking up with panic attacks several times at night, afraid of adults, afraid of dying, afraid of her family being killed, afraid of everything it seems. She sleeps with us at night and cannot be alone in any room of the house after dark. She has regressed in almost every area, including academics. Obviously, our home is stressed. None of our relatives know any of this.

 

My middle daughter had read the book previously and had reservations about my youngest reading it. It takes very little to frighten her these days. My step-MIL pulled middle dd into another room and suggested that she read it to our youngest and tell her that no matter how badly she messes up, God will always love her. Middle dd asked what she meant and step-MIL said that she could tell that youngest dd was "acting funny" lately. She told middle dd that she should let youngest dd know that in spite of messing up a lot, God would forgive her if she confessed her sins to him.

 

Middle dd agreed to do it, but didn't. She grabbed the book after they left and found me and told me everything. I'm hurt and furious that my in-laws would not discuss their concerns about our daughter with myself or my husband. I also don't like the secretive attitude they took in asking middle dd to say things to our youngest. I haven't told DH because he's still upset about our last visit with them.

 

I'm trying to look at this objectively. I'm trying to figure out how they meant this kindly. But we're not really happy at the moment with anything resembling "secrets".

 

Oh. He#$. NO. That is beyond unacceptable to me. your middle dd is still a child and adults have no business putting her in the middle of an already inappropriate discussion of one of her siblings. If your inlaws have concerns about your child you are the one they should talk to and you are the one who can decide what to do with that information. I also dislike the implication they're making that your youngest's behavior has anything to do with her sinning. :grouphug: for you and especially your middle dd for doing the right thing and bringing this to your attention.

[GWOB]

Boundaries were crossed. You are right to be upset. That would bug the snot out of me.

[Anne in CA]

To say that this behavior would be unacceptable to me would be an understatement. Your poor middle dd, I really feel for her. Really I would not feel bad that things were not well between you and the in-laws. Clearly they are dysfunctional and know that you won't buy in. They are trying to draw your children into their world. I would not bother to call them on their garbage, I would be unavailable to do anything with them for a really long time, and none of my children would EVER be alone in a room with one of them again. Did I say EVER? Because I mean EVER.

[thebacabunch]

You MUST tell your dh. It might hurt him, but it isn't your fault. It is more important for him to be a fully informed parent than a protected child at this point. Take your middle dd and the book to him, have dd tell him what happened and let the chips fall where they may. Honestly, if my parents treated my dh the way they treated YOU let alone your dd I would be LIVID!

[thebacabunch]

Also, have you talked to your dd's pediatrician about the amped up stresses since starting therapy? Are you sure the therapist is a good fit? Has she been assesed for high functioning autism? I see you have a dd on the spectrum. My dd7 is high functioning autistic and has similar behaviors and anxieties to yours.

[myfunnybunch]

Looking at this objectively: No. No way. Not in a million years. I'll echo misty.warden and say He#$. NO.

 

The gift thing, meh. Rude and passive-agressive, sure. But really that part is petty.

 

The interaction with your middle dd crosses too many lines and this isn't really the time to be objective.

 

Talk to your dh. Your inlaws are toxic and need to be reined in NOW. My stomach just churns at the whole thing. Your poor sweet young dd. Bless her big sister for coming to talk to you right away. Good for her.

 

If these people are going to be a part of your lives, you must set very clear boundaries about this behavior and do. not. budge.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

Cat

[Elizabeth in MN]

This sounds like a problem you've been dealing with for a long time now. However you have been dealing with you in-laws in the past does not work, so I would try a different approach.

[Melissa in Australia]

You MUST tell your dh. It might hurt him, but it isn't your fault. It is more important for him to be a fully informed parent than a protected child at this point. Take your middle dd and the book to him, have dd tell him what happened and let the chips fall where they may. Honestly, if my parents treated my dh the way they treated YOU let alone your dd I would be LIVID!

:iagree:

[Joanne]

I am concerned on a lot of levels. However, the thing ( with the exception of your dd's pain) that bothers me most is your perpetuating the dysfunction with your own secret.

[gardenmom5]

she stepped so far over the line, she'd no longer be welcome in my house - or to have "private" time with my children.

 

don't keep it from your husband. he's their father, and she's his mother. He needs to chose what he is willing to do to protect his daughters - and you both need to do so together.

[gardenmom5]

you know what - get the book on boundaries that tends to do the rounds on this board. You and your dh BOTH need to read it, and implement the strategies. Your dd well being is far more important than his mother's ego.

 

[Cassy]

Yes, I'd be upset too, very upset. On the other hand, to me, she sounds a weirdo, so after a bit of fuming I'd probably dismiss it. I'd also feel very reassured by the trust, loyalty and complete common sense shown by your middle DD. I would talk it through with my DH though, probably as calmly as possible if I thought it would upset him. Then I'd forget it.

 

I'm very sorry your step-MIL's cr@ppy behaviour has upset your Christmas.

[marbel]

I am concerned on a lot of levels. However, the thing ( with the exception of your dd's pain) that bothers me most is your perpetuating the dysfunction with your own secret.

 

Yes! This is your husband's family, so you need to have your daughter tell him what happened and he needs to deal with it in whatever way he considers appropriate. I'd also make sure kids were not alone with the in-laws.

 

Dysfunctional families have a way of passing on their dysfunctions. You need to keep this stuff out of your own family as much as you can. Not telling your husband because he's upset about a previous encounter with his dad and stepmother is not helpful with the bigger problem at all.

[SKL]

I probably would not be upset because grandma suggested to one of my children to say encouraging things to the other, honestly. Or to read a book to her. Unless she told your middle dd to keep it a secret from you, I would not consider this a "secret" as much as her trying to talk privately to your dd rather than in front of the whole crowd (for the sake of younger dd's privacy).

 

Maybe she should have asked you about your dd, but how would you have responded to that? Do you have a history with her of being defensive or otherwise indicating that you don't want to talk to her about such things? Was there an opportunity for her to talk to you about it in private?

 

It has nothing to do with how much loot you got from your MIL. Not sure why those facts were included here. To me, that suggests that you were a bit too ready to find fault in whatever she did.

[texasmama]

None of that is okay. It crosses boundaries to speak to your dd's in that manner and slights you to exclude you from cash given. My grandparents (now deceased) and my dad (my mom is deceased) always gave/give cash for Christmas. After marriage, the spouses of my brother and I were given the same cash gift that everyone else received. Your dh needs to address the issue regarding how your middle dd was spoken to privately with his dad and step mother.

[Annie G]

Since your extended family doesn't know that your dd is having these issues, you probably have to talk to dh and figure out how to handle it together. You don't have to carry this burden alone- dh will stand with you. If you decide to fight MIL over this, you'll probably need to tell her what's goig on with dd- and perhaps you'd rather keep that private for right now. It's a tricky situation- MIL clearly pushes boundaries, FIL allows it, and you're stuck trying to do too many things- cope with being the obvious un-favorite, help your middle dd navigate a manipulative grandma, help your youngest work through her issues, shield dh from the stress. It's too much for you to do alone. Talk to dh- he didn't do anything wrong and you're not blaming him, you just need your partner to cowboy up and help you through this. He can't do it if you don't let him know what's going on or how you feel.

[Callie]

Looking at this objectively: No. No way. Not in a million years. I'll echo misty.warden and say He#$. NO.

 

The gift thing, meh. Rude and passive-agressive, sure. But really that part is petty.

 

The interaction with your middle dd crosses too many lines and this isn't really the time to be objective.

 

Talk to your dh. Your inlaws are toxic and need to be reined in NOW. My stomach just churns at the whole thing. Your poor sweet young dd. Bless her big sister for coming to talk to you right away. Good for her.

 

If these people are going to be a part of your lives, you must set very clear boundaries about this behavior and do. not. budge.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

Cat

 

 

Agree

 

Callie

[Slipper]

Thanks for the replies. I need to clarify something - DH's mother is staying with us for a few days and was recently diagnosed with cirrhosis. DH and I are going with her in a few hours to her doctor's appointment. We are worried that it will be bad news. I do plan to tell DH but not until after the appointment today. And if it's bad news, then I plan to wait a few days. This isn't a long term 'secret' I'm keeping from DH, it's short term. I don't want his stress about his mother to cause him to explode on his father/step-mil and make a situation worse.

 

Also, it's not about the "loot" from step-MIL, seriously. I was trying to convey that I felt like they were already being passive aggressive prior to the incident.

 

thebacabunch - without going into a lot of detail, there is concern that my youngest has been exposed or victimized by some type of trauma. She had specific behaviors which caused us concern and we sought therapy. Once a therapist started talking to her about what has happened, her nightmares increased and unusual fears began. I don't believe she is on the spectrum, although it's possible she has underlying anxiety which is making this worse.

 

SKL - I wasn't interested in the loot, truly. Step-MIL and I had been having a pleasant discussion prior to Christmas and I thought things were going well on Christmas Day. That's why I was confused about being excluded in the 'money' gift (they handed out 8 envelopes with nine people present - it was very obvious and embarrassing with no explanation given). Then after middle dd told me what happened, I wondered if it was their way of excluding me from their concerns - basically a slam on my parenting skills. Yes, I would have been open if they asked me what was going on with our youngest (though I wouldn't have told them the truth because at this point, we can't with any of our relatives). I would have explained that she was having lots of nightmares and general anxiety. It was a confusing situation.

 

Cassy - Yes, I'm proud of dd. I'm thankful that she was able to deal gracefully with the situation and privately tell me her concerns (which were spot on).

[Joanne]

Is MIL alcoholic? That would inform my response.

 

I know all about cirrhosis, regardless of etyology, it is the same disease.

 

About the codependent stress management for DH, I still say that is a prolem, not a healthy solution.

[Slipper]

Is MIL alcoholic? That would inform my response.

 

I know all about cirrhosis, regardless of etyology, it is the same disease.

 

About the codependent stress management for DH, I still say that is a prolem, not a healthy solution.

 

 

MIL is an alcoholic, step-MIL (who made the comments) is not. Step-MIL does not like MIL at all and there is already some stress as she thinks we spend more time with MIL. MIL has not had a drink in three weeks, but she is not in good shape, at all. Her abdomen and legs are swollen, her skin itches all the time, she tires easily, lots of vomiting/diarrhea, lost massive amounts of weight and looks about thirty years older than she really is. The last visit was when they told her she had cirrhosis. They wanted to talk more and scheduled this doctor's appointment for this afternoon. Most of the meds they have given her do not appear to be working as expected. We are trying to talk MIL into moving onto our property so we can help look after her (we have a small play house in our back yard that could be modified into a guest house).

 

I know very little about cirrhosis and MIL/DH know less than I. We're all worried that she may be dying.

 

You're right, DH does not handle stress well and I usually time any bad news carefully if I can. We won't be seeing his dad/step-mil for at least another few months, so I can wait a few days. That may not be the 'right' answer for everyone, but it's the best way for him.

[Joanne]

 

MIL is an alcoholic, step-MIL (who made the comments) is not. Step-MIL does not like MIL at all and there is already some stress as she thinks we spend more time with MIL. MIL has not had a drink in three weeks, but she is not in good shape, at all. Her abdomen and legs are swollen, her skin itches all the time, she tires easily, lots of vomiting/diarrhea, lost massive amounts of weight and looks about thirty years older than she really is. The last visit was when they told her she had cirrhosis. They wanted to talk more and scheduled this doctor's appointment for this afternoon. Most of the meds they have given her do not appear to be working as expected. We are trying to talk MIL into moving onto our property so we can help look after her (we have a small play house in our back yard that could be modified into a guest house).

 

I know very little about cirrhosis and MIL/DH know less than I. We're all worried that she may be dying.

 

You're right, DH does not handle stress well and I usually time any bad news carefully if I can. We won't be seeing his dad/step-mil for at least another few months, so I can wait a few days. That may not be the 'right' answer for everyone, but it's the best way for him.

 

 

DId DH grow up in MIL's home?

 

Your choice to "time" news for your DH does not speak to a healthy, mutual, adult dynamic.

 

Cirrhosis is an evil disease. Meds can't cure it, but can help manage symptoms.

 

Has MIL gotten treatment for her alcoholism?

[Slipper]

 

 

DId DH grow up in MIL's home?

 

Your choice to "time" news for your DH does not speak to a healthy, mutual, adult dynamic.

 

Cirrhosis is an evil disease. Meds can't cure it, but can help manage symptoms.

 

Has MIL gotten treatment for her alcoholism?

 

DH's parents divorced when he was young. He grew up mostly in MIL's home until he was 12 yrs old. Then he went to live with his dad/step-mil (and her son who is DH's age). That lasted about six months and then he went to military school until he graduated. He hasn't lived with either of them since that time. At military school, he came home a week-end every three months and split his time between them.

 

I'm a bit confused, MIL has not had treatment for her alcoholism but is no longer drinking nor does she want to drink at this point. I don't think she needs treatment (but could be wrong). I did talk her into seeing a therapist but that was for many things, not just the cirrhosis.

 

I'm about to leave but will pop in later tonight. Even though we disagree about DH, thank you for your concern.

[Joanne]

 

DH's parents divorced when he was young. He grew up mostly in MIL's home until he was 12 yrs old. Then he went to live with his dad/step-mil (and her son who is DH's age). That lasted about six months and then he went to military school until he graduated. He hasn't lived with either of them since that time. At military school, he came home a week-end every three months and split his time between them.

 

I'm a bit confused, MIL has not had treatment for her alcoholism but is no longer drinking nor does she want to drink at this point. I don't think she needs treatment (but could be wrong). I did talk her into seeing a therapist but that was for many things, not just the cirrhosis.

 

I'm about to leave but will pop in later tonight. Even though we disagree about DH, thank you for your concern.

 

 

DH likely has some thinking and behavior in response to growing up with an alcoholic mother.

 

That mother, who drank enough to create cirrhosis, is unlikely to overcome alcoholism based on life threatening illness alone. Yes, that seems crazy and incongruent to people who don't have an alcoholic brain, but it is true.

 

Alcoholism is a disease, and needs treatment just like cancer, asthma, diabetes, and heart disease. The cirrhosis is its own disease, of course, but was created by the primary issue; alcohol dependence.

 

Alcoholism is a primary diagnosis (well, we don't actually diagnose "alcoholism, anyway). That means it needs to be treated before anything else can be adequately addressed - or all the other stuff and treatment are compromised.

[SKL]

 

Your choice to "time" news for your DH does not speak to a healthy, mutual, adult dynamic.

 

 

 

Well, IMO that depends on how important Granny's "acting funny" comment is in the grand scheme of things. There are times when it's best to focus on the big stuff. Personally I do not consider Granny's comment (and certainly not the money gift issue) to be "big stuff" compared to the medical issue at hand.

 

As an added comment, I think it's nice that Granny cares enough to notice dd's behavior change and to want to see her reassured. Not sure it's best to focus solely on Granny's method of delivery of her caring thoughts. It doesn't sound like she said anything subversive.

 

Now if she'd said "it doesn't seem like anyone is taking care of her" or the like, that would be a different story IMO.

[myfunnybunch]

without going into a lot of detail, there is concern that my youngest has been exposed or victimized by some type of trauma. She had specific behaviors which caused us concern and we sought therapy. Once a therapist started talking to her about what has happened, her nightmares increased and unusual fears began.

 

:grouphug:

 

Your family is dealing with a lot right now. Prayers for all of you.

 

Cat

[SKL]

DH likely has some thinking and behavior in response to growing up with an alcoholic mother.

 

That mother, who drank enough to create cirrhosis, is unlikely to overcome alcoholism based on life threatening illness alone. Yes, that seems crazy and incongruent to people who don't have an alcoholic brain, but it is true.

 

Alcoholism is a disease, and needs treatment just like cancer, asthma, diabetes, and heart disease. The cirrhosis is its own disease, of course, but was created by the primary issue; alcohol dependence.

 

Alcoholism is a primary diagnosis (well, we don't actually diagnose "alcoholism, anyway). That means it needs to be treated before anything else can be adequately addressed - or all the other stuff and treatment are compromised.

 

 

Some people do just stop drinking. The fact that these folks are not in counseling could distort the data gathered by counselors.

 

I'd never approach a person, who is neither my spouse nor my child, and tell them they need to focus on alcoholism when they (a) have stopped drinking and (b ) are faced with a serious medical issue (regardless of the cause of the medical issue). Maybe sometime down the line, if it seems helpful, but not at the time of the peak medical crisis.

[Joanne]

Some people do just stop drinking. The fact that these folks are not in counseling could distort the data gathered by counselors.

 

I'd never approach a person, who is neither my spouse nor my child, and tell them they need to focus on alcoholism when they (a) have stopped drinking and (b ) are faced with a serious medical issue (regardless of the cause of the medical issue). Maybe sometime down the line, if it seems helpful, but not at the time of the peak medical crisis.

 

 

Actually, treating the serious medical issue that caused the second serious medical issue is essential.

 

The medical community has some protocol regarding treating cirrhosis based on etyology and treatment if the etyology is alcohol dependence.

 

I am experienced on every side of this issue, and am not throwing random information at the OP.

 

This isn't about "counseling" or "data gathered by counselors" (who do not generally gather or research, anyway).

 

And, no, maybe you shouldn't approach a person and tell them they need to "focus on alcoholism." But I've got some reason to go there, and since the alcohol dependent person with cirrhosis is living in the home of the OP, influencing the dynamic of the home, I feel quite appropriate responding with the content I have.

[Mona100]

Some people do just stop drinking. The fact that these folks are not in counseling could distort the data gathered by counselors.

 

I'd never approach a person, who is neither my spouse nor my child, and tell them they need to focus on alcoholism when they (a) have stopped drinking and (b ) are faced with a serious medical issue (regardless of the cause of the medical issue). Maybe sometime down the line, if it seems helpful, but not at the time of the peak medical crisis.

 

 

My dad quit drinking all on his own when he was in his mid 50s after drinking for at least 35+ years. No therapy or anything. He just got tired of drinking. I bet this is not common among alcoholics but it does happen. He does consider himself a non-drinking alcoholic though and he doesn't allow alcohol in the house.

[Alexigail]

I don't think it's fair or safe to suggest types of treatment online. All we have is second hand information and it's clear that the OP's MIL is getting medical attention.

 

I do think that this family is hurting and that the OP may benefit from a perspective on the family relationships that takes into account that there may be alcohol related issues at play. Alcoholism affects families in specific ways, not just the alcoholic. (Because alcoholics cross boundaries and can say and do inappropriate things.) But I think the OP is right to focus on his or her daughter as the primary concern here.

OP it sounds like your daughter is hurting and I think it's great that you're seeking help for her. I don't know what the best thing to do is in your situation but I don't think it's out of line to discuss it with your husband at the time you feel is appropriate.

I know what it's like to deal both with difficult in-laws and with alcoholism. I hope that things settle down for you and the your daughter's situation improves. Hugs.

[Scarlett]

I agree with Joanne that the secret keeping is unhealthy. My step dads first marriage was like that ( and he was an active alcoholic through most of that long marriage). His late wife often kept secrets from him. Te other day my dad (step) had a heart attack scare and my mom called his dd from the hospital. She, my step sister, 'decided' she would not inform her brother until the next day.

 

My mom looked at me and raised her eyebrows....she said, 'that family likes to make decisions for other people'.

 

Yeah bad dynamic .

[Jennifer3141]

Wow. Some people get all the good Christmases, don't they???

 

I'm going to tell you a little medical factoid about alcoholism a lot of people don't realize. Just up and quitting is awesome for the actual alcoholism but it can cause utter chaos on the body as well. Depending upon what the patient consumes (is it a fifth of rum every day? 6 beers? 3 glasses of wine?) and upon the paitent's general health condition, just quitting may cause severe symptoms. It's withdrawal from a drug, just like any drug. And that is incredibly stressful on the body. Elderly people, people with weak hearts and/or people with diabetes or underlying health problems can die from sudden alcohol withdrawal. Again, it's also an addiction. So although your MIL may have told you, promised you, sworn to you. or whatever, don't be surprised if the alcoholism isn't over. I bet you have increased your MIL's chances for success by having her with your family right now and by seeking medical attention.

 

I don't like the secrecy in your home though. It makes me uncomfortable. I think your middle DD handled this well but I would have been happier if she had yelled, "Mom! Can you come here???" in the middle of your step-MIL's insane tirade. Why is everyone stepping around these whackos? This woman tried to insert herself between you DD and her parents. That.does.not.fly.

 

I've actually read a few Max Lucado books. He's a gentle man and although I don't particularly share his faith, I'm sure he's a great children's author for Xtian children. I am concerned about what "sins" your MIL thinks your 7 YEAR OLD daughter may be dealing with. What the heck is going on with that???

 

You have so much to deal with right now. Too much. I think it's time to get to the bottom of what is hurting DD and fix it. Your DH needs to put on his big boy pants and father up. Stop tip toeing around him. His father and crazy wife are putting your children't mental health at risk.

[CupOCoffee]

Wow. Some people get all the good Christmases, don't they???

 

 

I've actually read a few Max Lucado books. He's a gentle man and although I don't particularly share his faith, I'm sure he's a great children's author for Xtian children. I am concerned about what "sins" your MIL thinks your 7 YEAR OLD daughter may be dealing with. What the heck is going on with that???

 

You have so much to deal with right now. Too much. I think it's time to get to the bottom of what is hurting DD and fix it. Your DH needs to put on his big boy pants and father up. Stop tip toeing around him. His father and crazy wife are putting your children't mental health at risk.

 

Bolded. Yes, I wonder too what sins step-MIL thinks your 7 year old is harboring that are making her (how did she word it) "act funny". Sorry, but no adult should be having any 12 year old (did I get middle DD age right?) tell that kind of stuff to a 7 year old. Not to mention, now what is the 12 year thinking? That her sister is suffering because of some deep hidden sin? Sorry, that's messing with kids minds and is UNCACCEPTABLE.

 

Lines were crossed, access needs to be cut off until such time as the adult (cough cough) can respect some boundaries.

 

((hugs)) to you and your family.

[Slipper]

Thanks. We just got in from MIL's appointment. By the way, she isn't living here. She came here for a few days for Christmas. She lives about 1 1/2 hours away. We went to her appointment because she isn't thinking clearly. At this point, I don't think addressing alcoholism will help. (And again, I am not a liver expert or an alcohol expert - I drink maybe five drinks per year). She is estimated to have less than 35% liver function left with no chance of the liver healing itself. Her medicines aren't working and she isn't taking her potassium, which is dangerously low. The doctor encouraged her to move in with us or to an assisted living facility. She's refusing both for now, but I anticipate she will move here if she doesn't die first. Tonight she's back at her home with the neighbors checking in on her.

 

I'm not going to bother DH with his nutty step-mothers behavior when he is distracted out of his mind about his mother. He has no siblings. He will want (and need) his father in the months to come. I'm just going to let this slide and will talk to step-MIL about it next time we see each other. I do think she crossed a line involving my middle daughter. (With recent birthdays, the girls are 13, 11 and 8). They think I'm over-protective and it probably looks even worse recently since we don't know who to trust right now.

 

It's estimated that MIL has about 6 months left. I do believe that she quit drinking completely. She had a horrible time for nearly two weeks afterward, but was seeing a doctor during that time. I don't know if she had medication to help with the withdrawals (and I understand how dangerous they can be) but somehow she made it through. I don't know how much she was drinking but she would start around 5 AM (morning) and continue until she fell asleep that evening. She's done this all her life. Over the past few years she progressed from champagne to vodka.

 

I'm just emotionally exhausted at the moment. Thank you again for all the comments.

[thebacabunch]

Oh man, you have it rough right now. I will be thinking of you and praying for you. There is a lot on your plate right now. Whether a lot of us agree with what steps you are taking right now or not I know you can get support here if you need it.

[texasmama]

:grouphug: You are dealing with a lot right now. :grouphug:

[Catwoman]

Not for anything, but what did your dh say about his dad and stepmom treating you so poorly on Christmas? It had to be obvious to him that you received only one gift and no envelope -- wasn't he upset by that? :confused:

 

Personally, I think you are making a huge mistake by not immediately discussing everything that happened on Christmas with your dh. Why shouldn't he be angry with his father and his stepmom? They were both out of line in many ways, and he has a right to know about it.

 

I know you mean well and want to do the right thing to help up dh feel better, but I'll be honest with you --- if I was in your dh's position, I would be very angry if you didn't tell me. Also, being angry with his stepmom might give him a break from worrying about his mom's health. (And FWIW, your dh's father is as guilty as his stepmom in the whole gift giving thing.)

 

And as someone else already pointed out, I don't think your dd's behavior was something to be proud of, because your step-MIL was asking her to do something she knew was wrong, so she should have stood up for herself and said no to Grandma, and immediately told you and your dh about it. I think politeness is very nice, but in this case, I would have wanted to know right away what was happening so I could address it immediately with step-MIL. I do, however, think that she should be highly commended for not doing what your step-MIL asked her to do, and for doing her best to protect her sister.

[SKL]

 

And as someone else already pointed out, I don't think your dd's behavior was something to be proud of, because your step-MIL was asking her to do something she knew was wrong, so she should have stood up for herself and said no to Grandma, and immediately told you and your dh about it. I think politeness is very nice, but in this case, I would have wanted to know right away what was happening so I could address it immediately with step-MIL. I do, however, think that she should be highly commended for not doing what your step-MIL asked her to do, and for doing her best to protect her sister.

 

 

I'm confused. What did Granny tell 11yo to do that was wrong? To read to her sister a kiddy book and say encouraging words to her?

[SKL]

Double Post.

[jujsky]

Not acceptable AT ALL! Discuss this with your husband and have him handle it with his dad & step-mom. I know you said he'll be mad, but it's his family, his mess.

 

All I can say is thank goodness your daughter knew enough to come to you and didn't take step-grandma's advice to read that book to your other dd.

[texasmama]

 

I'm confused. What did Granny tell 11yo to do that was wrong? To read to her sister a kiddy book and say encouraging words to her?

 

This is a quote from the OP: My step-MIL pulled middle dd into another room and suggested that she read it to our youngest and tell her that no matter how badly she messes up, God will always love her. Middle dd asked what she meant and step-MIL said that she could tell that youngest dd was "acting funny" lately. She told middle dd that she should let youngest dd know that in spite of messing up a lot, God would forgive her if she confessed her sins to him.

And yes, this is wrong on many levels.

[SKL]

This is a quote from the OP: My step-MIL pulled middle dd into another room and suggested that she read it to our youngest and tell her that no matter how badly she messes up, God will always love her. Middle dd asked what she meant and step-MIL said that she could tell that youngest dd was "acting funny" lately. She told middle dd that she should let youngest dd know that in spite of messing up a lot, God would forgive her if she confessed her sins to him.

And yes, this is wrong on many levels.

 

I don't see this as telling 11yo to do something wrong. Telling 11yo to break a family rule would fit that description. From the perspective of an 11yo, IMO, this is more of a well-meant but misguided suggestion. I don't agree that the 11yo was wrong for not telling off the grandparent. I would have nodded and smiled and then done my own thing, just like this child did.

 

Whether the grandmother was wrong in her religious thinking is a different matter. The OP said her 11yo daughter had read that book which Granny gave her younger sister. That suggests to me that the religious message therein probably isn't forbidden in that home. There is something secret going on with the 7yo that maybe makes that message inappropriate for her at this time, but Granny isn't in the know about that.

 

Again, the fact that she took 11yo aside could have been more to protect 7yo's privacy from the larger crowd, or just to get a quiet moment. (If it's anything like our Christmas gatherings, you can't have a conversation like that without finding a quiet corner to talk.)

 

I guess I don't believe that a granny needs permission to talk to children about things like this. It strikes me as very benign. It disturbs me to see folks using words like "toxic" over this little conversation among close family.

[misty.warden]

I don't see this as telling 11yo to do something wrong. Telling 11yo to break a family rule would fit that description. From the perspective of an 11yo, IMO, this is more of a well-meant but misguided suggestion. I don't agree that the 11yo was wrong for not telling off the grandparent. I would have nodded and smiled and then done my own thing, just like this child did.

 

Whether the grandmother was wrong in her religious thinking is a different matter. The OP said her 11yo daughter had read that book which Granny gave her younger sister. That suggests to me that the religious message therein probably isn't forbidden in that home. There is something secret going on with the 7yo that maybe makes that message inappropriate for her at this time, but Granny isn't in the know about that.

 

Again, the fact that she took 11yo aside could have been more to protect 7yo's privacy from the larger crowd, or just to get a quiet moment. (If it's anything like our Christmas gatherings, you can't have a conversation like that without finding a quiet corner to talk.)

 

I guess I don't believe that a granny needs permission to talk to children about things like this. It strikes me as very benign. It disturbs me to see folks using words like "toxic" over this little conversation among close family.

 

If there are any concerns about behavior of a child, the person to talk to is the PARENT, not a minor sibling of the child. There's nothing wrong with the step-MIL having a quiet and private conversation about her religious beliefs or any concerns she may have, the problem is that she pulled aside another child to have that conversation with and did not inform the parent of a) her concerns or b ) the fact that she even said anything to the middle dd. Giving a child who has high anxiety already a book explicitly about how God loves you and forgives you if you confess your sins implies that the step-MIL thinks the sin of a 7-year old is somehow the reason for her anxiety. THAT is not a "little conversation" and sowing that kind of secrecy between a child and her parents is toxic.

[SKL]

If there are any concerns about behavior of a child, the person to talk to is the PARENT, not a minor sibling of the child. There's nothing wrong with the step-MIL having a quiet and private conversation about her religious beliefs or any concerns she may have, the problem is that she pulled aside another child to have that conversation with and did not inform the parent of a) her concerns or b ) the fact that she even said anything to the middle dd. Giving a child who has high anxiety already a book explicitly about how God loves you and forgives you if you confess your sins implies that the step-MIL thinks the sin of a 7-year old is somehow the reason for her anxiety. THAT is not a "little conversation" and sowing that kind of secrecy between a child and her parents is toxic.

 

I don't see where there was any "sowing secrecy."

 

I don't see how the granny is in the wrong for giving a kid a kiddy book. She was NOT informed of the child's issues.

 

I don't believe a grandparent has to "inform" the parent that she spoke to her grandchild during a family get-together.

 

I don't believe there is anything wrong with a grandparent speaking to a child about her sibling in the way that was done here, i.e., 'she seems to need comforting and here's a way you can comfort her.'

 

Perhaps there is more to the story, but in general, I think it's a good thing when a grandmother has a heart-to-heart with an 11yo granddaughter, and it doesn't require permission nor reporting. Maybe I'm living on another planet. As a matter of fact, my kids are with their grandma right now, for 3 days, and I have no intentions of asking what they discussed "behind my back."

 

And by the way, it's quite natural for grandparents to pass along religious ideas to the younger generations. Been happening for millennia, right? Suddenly in this generation it's spoken of like child abuse. Yeah, that disturbs me. These are only words - gentle ones at that.

[myfunnybunch]

And as someone else already pointed out, I don't think your dd's behavior was something to be proud of, because your step-MIL was asking her to do something she knew was wrong, so she should have stood up for herself and said no to Grandma, and immediately told you and your dh about it. I think politeness is very nice, but in this case, I would have wanted to know right away what was happening so I could address it immediately with step-MIL.

 

Give her a break. She's 12. A grandparent masking a werid boundary violation as concern would be really confusing. She probably felt completely blindsided and had no idea how to handle the situation. As adults we (most of us, anyway) can recognize that it was completely inappropriate for an adult to pull aside a child and ask her to help another child ask for forgiveness for her sin. (ICK) But a kid without a lot of life experience probably needed some time to process that it felt odd and uncomfortable. She did tell her mom instead of doing what the MIL asked.

 

Which is likely why MIL pulled her aside instead of the OP, for that matter, because the 12 y.o. was a lot less likely to tell MIL to mind her own #!$% business.

 

Cat

[SKL]

 

Which is likely why MIL pulled her aside instead of the OP, for that matter, because the 12 y.o. was a lot less likely to tell MIL to mind her own #!$% business.

 

Cat

 

 

True. Which suggests that folks' expectation that Granny bring her concerns up with the parent may not be entirely realistic. I get the impression this would be most unwelcome, though OP states she would have been open to the question.

 

Now if I someday have a grandchild who appears to be unhappy and I feel I can't approach her parents without getting my ass chewed out (or getting banned as "toxic"), I don't know what I'll do. I don't think it's right to just ignore the situation. I know grandparents don't have legal rights (generally), but that doesn't mean they don't have moral duties.

[Catwoman]

 

 

Give her a break. She's 12. A grandparent masking a werid boundary violation as concern would be really confusing. She probably felt completely blindsided and had no idea how to handle the situation. As adults we (most of us, anyway) can recognize that it was completely inappropriate for an adult to pull aside a child and ask her to help another child ask for forgiveness for her sin. (ICK) But a kid without a lot of life experience probably needed some time to process that it felt odd and uncomfortable. She did tell her mom instead of doing what the MIL asked.

 

I'm not criticizing what she did -- I'm saying that I thought it was a good thing that she was protective of her sister. What I meant was that I wouldn't encourage my child to smile and nod at Grandma, and wait until later to let me know what had happened. Clearly, the dd realized that Grandma was asking her to do something that would have been detrimental to her sister. Obviously, I wouldn't berate the kid for not standing up to Grandma, but I would have been sure she knew that next time, she didn't have to pretend to obey Grandma, but that instead, it would be OK to politely refuse, and to tell Grandma that she had to discuss it with her mom.

 

I'm a big believer in teaching my kid that polite assertiveness is a good thing, and that he should stand up for himself and for what he believes is right -- and in this case, the dd knew that what Grandma wanted her to do was wrong, so there was no reason why she shouldn't have felt free to express her feelings about it.

 

And FWIW, my ds is 12, and he wouldn't have been intimidated by the grandma, because he knows my dh and I are there to back him up if necessary. Honestly, though, my ds isn't one to be intimidated by an adult who tries to tell him what to do... unless maybe it's his Evil Mom! ;)

[Joker]

I'm not criticizing what she did -- I'm saying that I thought it was a good thing that she was protective of her sister. What I meant was that I wouldn't encourage my child to smile and nod at Grandma, and wait until later to let me know what had happened. Clearly, the dd realized that Grandma was asking her to do something that would have been detrimental to her sister. Obviously, I wouldn't berate the kid for not standing up to Grandma, but I would have been sure she knew that next time, she didn't have to pretend to obey Grandma, but that instead, it would be OK to politely refuse, and to tell Grandma that she had to discuss it with her mom.

 

I'm a big believer in teaching my kid that polite assertiveness is a good thing, and that he should stand up for himself and for what he believes is right -- and in this case, the dd knew that what Grandma wanted her to do was wrong, so there was no reason why she shouldn't have felt free to express her feelings about it.

 

And FWIW, my ds is 12, and he wouldn't have been intimidated by the grandma, because he knows my dh and I are there to back him up if necessary. Honestly, though, my ds isn't one to be intimidated by an adult who tries to tell him what to do... unless maybe it's his Evil Mom! ;)

 

There is something to be said for just agreeing with certain people and telling mom and dad later, though. My dds wouldn't argue with an elder relative because they've been taught differently. If it's something dangerous they know the difference and know it's ok to fight and call for help, but they wouldn't argue with a grandparent over something like this. It would just be considered using their manners. They would talk it over later with us. It's even a skill adults have to use from time to time.

[myfunnybunch]

What I meant was that I wouldn't encourage my child to smile and nod at Grandma, and wait until later to let me know what had happened.

 

Ah, I see. I agree with this, and with what you said about teaching children to politely assert themselves. And I still sympathize with the 12 y.o. who was caught in a situation that she was not prepared for. She handled the situation well considering she wasn't prepared. I'd be proud of her for that.

 

Cat

[myfunnybunch]

Now if I someday have a grandchild who appears to be unhappy and I feel I can't approach her parents without getting my ass chewed out (or getting banned as "toxic"), I don't know what I'll do. I don't think it's right to just ignore the situation. I know grandparents don't have legal rights (generally), but that doesn't mean they don't have moral duties.

 

But would you pull aside an older grandchild, tell them the younger grandchild is acting funny, and encourage the older child to discuss sin and forgiveness with the younger? That goes way beyond a concerned grandmotherly chat. Even if the OP isn't their very most favorite person in the whole world, why not approach it with the child's father instead of her 12 y.o. sister?

 

It is odd behavior, a serious misjudgement at best, to even imply to an older child that her younger sibling might be acting funny because she's got some secret sin weighing one her.

 

Cat