Help me pick PreA for this child? (x-post from PreA fence straddler thread)

[Chrysalis Academy]

I posted this at the end of the PreA fence-straddlers thread, but then realized maybe it should be its own question . . . thank you for taking a stab at my question!!

 

Awright, I just went through chapter 1 of AoPS PreAlgebra, and I gotta say, I don't see this working for DD AT ALL!! This is not how she thinks. She is more linear, a symbolic/semantic learner, as opposed to a figural/visual learner. I can see getting cool word problems from it, and I love the online videos, but I do not see this approach working very well for her as a main text. Of course, things could change in a year, but as of now I think I need to rethink my plan of trying to do AoPS as our primary PreA.

 

She is doing really well with MM, we are able to move through it pretty quickly using ~ half of the problems, doubling up on some lessons. She's acing the tests, and even though we do a lot of supplementing, she'll finish 5 before the end of this school year (as well as finishing LOF Frac & Decimals). My current plan is to start MM6, and go through that, though at this rate it will also take less than a year . . . so we may be looking to start PreA in a year from now.

 

She likes a mastery program, hates heavily spiral programs. She loves LOF, really likes the conceptual explanations, but concluded (after finishing Frac) that it isn't enough practice on its own. She would like to continue using it as a supplement, though.

 

Anybody got any suggestions for this child? Not a visual learner, not very into manipulatives, very verbal, pretty linear and parts-to-whole, loves LOF, HOE, does great with MM. Where to go for PreA. Help??? Pretty please???

[Deniseibase]

I don't know if Foerster's has a Pre-algebra, but Foerster's sounds right up your alley for Algebra. Maybe Dolciani Pre-Algebra or Lial's BCM?

[jennynd]

Will u consider integrated math like Singapore math DM?

Or... Since she does well with MM and MM does offer preA worksheet. Maybe just have her work on the MM worksheet for preA and then change to algebra?

[freesia]

She likes a mastery program, hates heavily spiral programs.

 

Anybody got any suggestions for this child? Not a visual learner, not very into manipulatives, very verbal, pretty linear and parts-to-whole, loves LOF, HOE, does great with MM. Where to go for PreA. Help??? Pretty please???

 

My son, who sounds like a boy version of your dd, did very well with Dolciani Accelerated Pre-Algebra. I wouldn't say he loved it to death (what compares to LOF, really?) but he didn't complain. The instruction was exactly right for a verbal, linear, parts to whole child.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Will u consider integrated math like Singapore math DM?

Or... Since she does well with MM and MM does offer preA worksheet. Maybe just have her work on the MM worksheet for preA and then change to algebra?

 

I've looked at integrated math, and the idea definitely appeals to me; I guess my worry is if you start down that path, are you stuck with it? And I'm confused by the Singapore website, it seems like they are retiring their previous series and introducing a new one tied to common core standards. Hmm. I'm not sure how that affects scope & sequence? I will need to look into that more.

 

I've definitely considered your second suggestion - home-made preA using MM, Zaccaro, & LOF and then straight into algebra, but then the question becomes, which Algebra??? :laugh:

[Chrysalis Academy]

Ok, Dolciani seems to be getting a lot of love, I will definitely have to check that out. :auto:

[dereksurfs]

I've looked at integrated math, and the idea definitely appeals to me; I guess my worry is if you start down that path, are you stuck with it? And I'm confused by the Singapore website, it seems like they are retiring their previous series and introducing a new one tied to common core standards. Hmm. I'm not sure how that affects scope & sequence? I will need to look into that more.

 

I've definitely considered your second suggestion - home-made preA using MM, Zaccaro, & LOF and then straight into algebra, but then the question becomes, which Algebra??? :laugh:

 

 

One fence straddling at a time! :laugh:

 

Honestly I know this can be challenging to decide with so many ways to go, and I'm a planner! But one thing I've discovered in moving through pre-A is that while its good to have a general plan or even 'a few' scenarios you have to remain open to changing them. Observe your child's developments during the Pre-A stage including their struggles while grappling with a whole new abstract way of thinking. Their little brains are changing so fast making new connections and pathways to things that didn't exist before. During this time your perception of their abilities will change also. And that will help you better determine what that next step should be - that just right challenge.

 

Its still fine to evaluate different programs and consider various paths looking down the road. I've found it very helpful to pick up Algebra 1 texts to compare (Foerster, Dolciani, AoPS, etc...). The older books can be picked up used for very little. So they are worth just having around as references. I've also considered using Derek Owens' classes for example. So I emailed him questions I had regarding his courses which helped as well. Part of this research I think is for my own sense of sanity when presented with so many options. Now I have a clearer view of the roads we may travel with ds11, and I've got two dds following right behind.

[crazyforlatin]

Ok, Dolciani seems to be getting a lot of love, I will definitely have to check that out. :auto:

 

Dolciani Pre-A reminds me of MM but without the workbook feature. That may be a problem for DD since she doesn't like to re-write problems or put her answers on a separate page. We've also done well with MM.

 

MM's Pre-A should be done in 1.5 years, from what I've read on the boards. That's 6 months too late for you, right?

 

 

[freesia]

Dolciani Pre-A reminds me of MM but without the workbook feature. That may be a problem for DD since she doesn't like to re-write problems or put her answers on a separate page. We've also done well with MM.

 

MM's Pre-A should be done in 1.5 years, from what I've read on the boards. That's 6 months too late for you, right?

I wouldn't say 1.5 years. We switched pre-alg programs in November and finished by the end of June. Ds is strong in math but not a genius. We had to work steady, though. I would have rather had a school year to finish.

[boscopup]

MUS Algebra as prealgebra, followed by Foerster Algebra might be a good option?

 

I also really like Jacobs Algebra - there is a hefty sample on Google books. It's good for younger kids, as it has plenty of humor. The explanations are very good, and it is straightforward.

 

Definitely pick up a copy of Dolciani Prealgebra. I paid $6, shipped, on Amazon (used). My copy had never actually been used either. It was a public school "discard". I don't plan to use it, but we'll see. I'm going to try AoPS, and if it's not a good fit yet, I will probably do some Jacobs, and if I need to fill in with Dolciani, I can. Or I might pick up MUS Algebra, but I'm trying to make do with what I have, since I have plenty. :lol:

[boscopup]

I wouldn't say 1.5 years. We switched pre-alg programs in November and finished by the end of June. Ds is strong in math but not a genius. We had to work steady, though. I would have rather had a school year to finish.

 

She was talking about Math Mammoth creating a prealgebra program. It's not done yet, but it is probably going to be done 1.5 years from now. :)

[crazyforlatin]

 

I wouldn't say 1.5 years. We switched pre-alg programs in November and finished by the end of June. Ds is strong in math but not a genius. We had to work steady, though. I would have rather had a school year to finish.

 

What I meant was that I think Maria won't be done writing her Pre-A for another year and a half, which means that OP will be left with 6 months or more of no Pre-A book after MM 6 is completed. Having a Pre-A similar to MM1-6 would be good, but I haven't seen anything like that. Horizons has a separate TM, but that's not what I want. Maybe when kids are about 10 or so, they don't need workbooks and should be able to write their answers in a separate notebook.

 

 

 

 

[crazyforlatin]

 

 

She was talking about Math Mammoth creating a prealgebra program. It's not done yet, but it is probably going to be done 1.5 years from now. :)

 

Yeah, I should have been more clear. I forgot that there are members who have kids already in algebra or beyond that don't know about MM's upcoming Pre-A.

[dereksurfs]

What I meant was that I think Maria won't be done writing her Pre-A for another year and a half, which means that OP will be left with 6 months or more of no Pre-A book after MM 6 is completed. Having a Pre-A similar to MM1-6 would be good, but I haven't seen anything like that. Horizons has a separate TM, but that's not what I want. Maybe when kids are about 10 or so, they don't need workbooks and should be able to write their answers in a separate notebook.

 

 

This is good to know. I didn't realize she was developing a Pre-A program. My dds are young enough that I can evaluate it for them along with all the other options. :D

[TracyP]

I emailed Maria a while back and she said that she planned to have MM7 out by the fall of 2014. MUS Alg as PreA is a top contender here if AOPS doesn't work out.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Dolciani Pre-A reminds me of MM but without the workbook feature. That may be a problem for DD since she doesn't like to re-write problems or put her answers on a separate page. We've also done well with MM.

 

MM's Pre-A should be done in 1.5 years, from what I've read on the boards. That's 6 months too late for you, right?

 

 

 

Yes, exactly. We're using the "old" MM 5 & 6. It looks like the CC revision is pushing a few topics back (5 to 6, 6 to 7/PreA) but we're just a little bit ahead of Maria's revision schedule, which is just as well, as we're doing fine with the "extra" material in the earlier grade. But it seems like the "old" MM6 covers at least part of traditional PreA, which is partly why I'm questioning what PreA to use.

[jennynd]

 

 

I've looked at integrated math, and the idea definitely appeals to me; I guess my worry is if you start down that path, are you stuck with it? And I'm confused by the Singapore website, it seems like they are retiring their previous series and introducing a new one tied to common core standards. Hmm. I'm not sure how that affects scope & sequence? I will need to look into that more.

 

I've definitely considered your second suggestion - home-made preA using MM, Zaccaro, & LOF and then straight into algebra, but then the question becomes, which Algebra??? :laugh:

 

 

PreA is really nothing more than a review. So I do think just use MM green, golden worksheet for pre A should be enough. I was Asia educated so I really never use and didn't see a point to have preA if ur kid done good from 1-6.

The other thing u might consider is to add a "soft" algebra now. I started adding key to algebra when DS was in SM 5. When we done with sm 6. He was more than ready to go a regular algebra.

[Chrysalis Academy]

MUS Algebra as prealgebra, followed by Foerster Algebra might be a good option?

 

I also really like Jacobs Algebra - there is a hefty sample on Google books. It's good for younger kids, as it has plenty of humor. The explanations are very good, and it is straightforward.

 

Definitely pick up a copy of Dolciani Prealgebra. I paid $6, shipped, on Amazon (used). My copy had never actually been used either. It was a public school "discard". I don't plan to use it, but we'll see. I'm going to try AoPS, and if it's not a good fit yet, I will probably do some Jacobs, and if I need to fill in with Dolciani, I can. Or I might pick up MUS Algebra, but I'm trying to make do with what I have, since I have plenty. :lol:

 

Thanks for pointing me to this sample - I'm definitely liking the looks of Jacobs. It appeals to the verbal, explain what-why-and-how-before-you-ask-me-to-do-anything characteristic in dd!! It may be that after using MM6 with Zacarro Challenge Math, LOF Pre-Algebra, and HOE, we will be more than ready to jump into Jacobs, and take it slow!!

 

I will grab a cheap copy of Dolicani, too, though!!

 

For some reason, I am not feeling the MUS love. I've read tons of posts about using algebra as Pre-A, but something about it - the manipulatives? the teacher? I dunno - just doesn't get me jazzed. I guess I should show dd a sample lesson of a lower level - something she'll understand - and see if his presentation appeals to her. You need all the manipulatives though, right? My kids never seem to use manipulatives to actually understand math, although they do love building stables for their miniature horses with them. :D

[crazyforlatin]

 

 

PreA is really nothing more than a review. So I do think just use MM green, golden worksheet for pre A should be enough. I was Asia educated so I really never use and didn't see a point to have preA if ur kid done good from 1-6.

The other thing u might consider is to add a "soft" algebra now. I started adding key to algebra when DS was in SM 5. When we done with sm 6. He was more than ready to go a regular algebra.

 

I just added Key to Algebra. DD loves this series, but I suspect it's the friendly font size and it's level of difficulty (not very BTW). It's a workbook, which is exactly the format she likes. So we're using MM, Key, AOPS, HOE, and some other supplements. She seems to need a variety, but MM keeps us in line.

[crazyforlatin]

 

 

Thanks for pointing me to this sample - I'm definitely liking the looks of Jacobs. It appeals to the verbal, explain what-why-and-how-before-you-ask-me-to-do-anything characteristic in dd!! It may be that after using MM6 with Zacarro Challenge Math, LOF Pre-Algebra, and HOE, we will be more than ready to jump into Jacobs, and take it slow!!

 

I will grab a cheap copy of Dolicani, too, though!!

 

For some reason, I am not feeling the MUS love. I've read tons of posts about using algebra as Pre-A, but something about it - the manipulatives? the teacher? I dunno - just doesn't get me jazzed. I guess I should show dd a sample lesson of a lower level - something she'll understand - and see if his presentation appeals to her. You need all the manipulatives though, right? My kids never seem to use manipulatives to actually understand math, although they do love building stables for their miniature horses with them. :D

 

DD is very verbal, language-oriented, which is why AOPS may partly suit her, but it's not a direct method that she is used to, which means I need to seque into it while still using other math books. If AOPS were accompanied by an audiobook and space in the book to work out the problems, that would be most helpful.

 

I keep looking at Jacobs, several times ready to buy the set, but it's not cheap just for me to add another book to the shelf. I need more feedback from parents who have similar kids.

[Crimson Wife]

Singapore is revising the Discovering Math series to meet the new Common Core, but they're doing it in a similar way to how they revised Primary Math to meet the CA standards. Basically they're adding a few chapters and rearranging some topics. The 7th grade books are out now and the 8th grade books should be available in the spring. 7A/B covers pre-algebra and some of the easier algebra 1 & geometry topics. So even if you decide to switch to a traditional sequence after the first year, it'll just make whatever algebra 1 and geometry books you choose a bit easier at the beginning.

 

We're really liking DM for pre-algebra and are leaning towards using the 8th grade books for algebra 1. DD will probably do a traditional geometry textbook because Singapore does not appear to get into proofs in its geometry work. Algebra 2 I'm likely to need to outsource. CyberShala would be an option if we decide to continue on with Singapore. However, I'm not sure how that would look on a college application, so we may go with a more well-known distance learning program like CTY or EPGY. I'll worry about that when the time comes. :)

[freesia]

She was talking about Math Mammoth creating a prealgebra program. It's not done yet, but it is probably going to be done 1.5 years from now. :)

What I meant was that I think Maria won't be done writing her Pre-A for another year and a half, which means that OP will be left with 6 months or more of no Pre-A book after MM 6 is completed. Having a Pre-A similar to MM1-6 would be good, but I haven't seen anything like that. Horizons has a separate TM, but that's not what I want. Maybe when kids are about 10 or so, they don't need workbooks and should be able to write their answers in a separate notebook.

Oh, right. I was reading too fast. Maybe I shouldn't try to reply to the forum, clean the house, supervise the making of a gingerbread house and catch up on schoolwork all at the same time. Sorry! :0

[freesia]

DD is very verbal, language-oriented, which is why AOPS may partly suit her, but it's not a direct method that she is used to, which means I need to seque into it while still using other math books. If AOPS were accompanied by an audiobook and space in the book to work out the problems, that would be most helpful.

 

I keep looking at Jacobs, several times ready to buy the set, but it's not cheap just for me to add another book to the shelf. I need more feedback from parents who have similar kids.

My verbal ds is doing great in Jacobs. AOPS was not a winner with him, although I know it's a great book and may suit my third born.

[dereksurfs]

Thanks for pointing me to this sample - I'm definitely liking the looks of Jacobs. It appeals to the verbal, explain what-why-and-how-before-you-ask-me-to-do-anything characteristic in dd!! It may be that after using MM6 with Zacarro Challenge Math, LOF Pre-Algebra, and HOE, we will be more than ready to jump into Jacobs, and take it slow!!

 

I will grab a cheap copy of Dolicani, too, though!!

 

For some reason, I am not feeling the MUS love. I've read tons of posts about using algebra as Pre-A, but something about it - the manipulatives? the teacher? I dunno - just doesn't get me jazzed. I guess I should show dd a sample lesson of a lower level - something she'll understand - and see if his presentation appeals to her. You need all the manipulatives though, right? My kids never seem to use manipulatives to actually understand math, although they do love building stables for their miniature horses with them. :D

 

 

You absolutely do not need manipulatives with MUS Algebra. In fact ds11 used MUS from Primer through Pre-A and by the time we got to Pre-A he was not using them at all. The teacher is ok. His lectures are short and to the point. It would be good to try a sample with your dc.

 

If you go with the above self designed Pre-A I would suggest using Zacarro's Real World Algebra which we have also. It definately falls into the Pre-Algebra category in terms of easing into Algebraic topics and problem types. We are half way through ds11's TabletClass Pre-A and I would say half of Zacarro's RWA is too easy for him now, while the other half would be learning some new 'real world' applications.

[crazyforlatin]

Singapore is revising the Discovering Math series to meet the new Common Core, but they're doing it in a similar way to how they revised Primary Math to meet the CA standards. Basically they're adding a few chapters and rearranging some topics. The 7th grade books are out now and the 8th grade books should be available in the spring. 7A/B covers pre-algebra and some of the easier algebra 1 & geometry topics. So even if you decide to switch to a traditional sequence after the first year, it'll just make whatever algebra 1 and geometry books you choose a bit easier at the beginning.

 

We're really liking DM for pre-algebra and are leaning towards using the 8th grade books for algebra 1. DD will probably do a traditional geometry textbook because Singapore does not appear to get into proofs in its geometry work. Algebra 2 I'm likely to need to outsource. CyberShala would be an option if we decide to continue on with Singapore. However, I'm not sure how that would look on a college application, so we may go with a more well-known distance learning program like CTY or EPGY. I'll worry about that when the time comes. :)

 

 

Thank you for explaining SM. I've been confused about their books after PM.

 

A link to DM http://www.singaporemath.com/Discovering_Mathematics_s/219.htm

 

Sorry, I'm on a tablet and can't seem to link.

[Chrysalis Academy]

You absolutely do not need manipulatives with MUS Algebra. In fact ds11 used MUS from Primer through Pre-A and by the time we got to Pre-A he was not using them at all. The teacher is ok. His lectures are short and to the point. It would be good to try a sample with your dc.

 

If you go with the above self designed Pre-A I would suggest using Zacarro's Real World Algebra which we have also. It definately falls into the Pre-Algebra category in terms of easing into Algebraic topics and problem types. We are half way through ds11's TabletClass Pre-A and I would say half of Zacarro's RWA is too easy for him now, while the other half would be learning some new 'real world' applications.

 

 

Ok, gotcha. We are using Challenge math now, doing about half the problems this year w/ MM5, but I was saving the Level 2 problems for when we hit the concepts again in MM6. I can see that for Pre-A, the Real World Algebra book will be better. I don't know if it's necessary, with everything else, but I do like throwing a lot of word problems from a lot of different sources at her. I started this after she complained once that it "wasn't fair" that a word problem was asking her to do something that hadn't been specifically taught in the current lesson!! :ohmy: Boy is she sorry she ever said *that* out loud!!! ;)