Nakia Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 **Sorry for the bold print. I cut and pasted this from somewhere else and can't it off bold** I made a decision today that I've been putting off for a while. I'm going to have my sweet Emma tested for ADD. I haven't posted much about her on the boards because I've been asking about things for my other two, but I think I've gotten them settled, lol. I actually also made an appt for Emma to have her eyes checked because she is squinting a lot, complaining of headaches, and seems to often skip lines when reading. My husband has horrible eyesight so it's kind of expected that at least one of them will too. Emma is an excellent reader (and read earlier than my other two), but she can't remember a lot of details about many things she's read especially non-fiction. She definitely reads better than she understands, if that makes sense. Math continues to be a disaster. She cannot stay on task with math. She doesn't understand the directions unless I read them to her and break it in to small chunks. She doesn't get the concepts unless I explain it 20 ways and then it's still hard. What she knows today, she will forget tomorrow. She's in her own world most of the time. I don't know what's normal for her age and what's not. My oldest never had these problems (she has her own, lol) so I can't compare Emma to her. I don't know what's her personality and what's just abnormal. I do know it's causing a lot of difficulty and strife with her school work. She also has so many good qualities. She is sweet, kind, and loving. And sooooo creative! She takes time to think things through before jumping in, which is a good quality. Except when she loses focus on what she was thinking about and gets frustrated. :( Which leads me to part two: testing for learning disabilities. Our insurance will not cover that so I guess we're going through the school system. All this makes me nervous because she has so much anxiety and is so melancholy. I don't want her to think something's wrong with her, and she already says that from time to time. I don't even know how to prepare her for it. Help?!? Any ideas what could be going on? Am I covering all my bases here? I'd be happy to answer any questions you all might have to help clarify what's going on. I did feel out the Vanderbilt form this morning, and she has 5 out of 9 indicators for ADD (need 6 according to that for a diagnosis). She also had enough indicators for anxiety/depression. She's always been anxious, and now I think a lot of that is because she is afraid of messing up. The anxiety has improved IMMENSELY over the last two years. I just thought of something else. Is it common to have more than one child in a family with ADD and/or ADHD? My youngest has ADHD. Thanks for any help!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 I actually also made an appt for Emma to have her eyes checked because she is squinting a lot, complaining of headaches, and seems to often skip lines when reading. My husband has horrible eyesight so it's kind of expected that at least one of them will too. FWIW, there's more to vision than 20/20 eyesight. I would see a developmental optometrist (www.covd.org) for this particular checkup and note these issues to the doc. In addition, I have read about situations where developmental vision problems can result in symptoms that resemble ADHD. Of course, a person could also have both, and in any case, it sounds as though there may be some sort of LD going on. Good luck getting testing for LDs!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted October 30, 2012 Author Share Posted October 30, 2012 FWIW, there's more to vision than 20/20 eyesight. I would see a developmental optometrist (www.covd.org) for this particular checkup and note these issues to the doc. In addition, I have read about situations where developmental vision problems can result in symptoms that resemble ADHD. Of course, a person could also have both, and in any case, it sounds as though there may be some sort of LD going on. Good luck getting testing for LDs!! Yes! I've heard of this type of thing before. I've actually looked on that website. The closest one listed is 1.5 hours away, and it's not covered by our insurance. I'd be willing to take her there for an appointment, but I'm not sure we could do it long term for financial reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedarling Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 All this makes me nervous because she has so much anxiety and is so melancholy. I don't want her to think something's wrong with her, and she already says that from time to time.... I just thought of something else. Is it common to have more than one child in a family with ADD and/or ADHD? My youngest has ADHD. My dd11 found it extremely freeing to realize that so many of her issues were just a processing problem. She's been much happier since we started that discussion (we're still waiting on appointments for testing.) She already senses she different, and that is depressing at that age...but to have an explanation helps! You might be surprised at her reaction that there could be an explanation for her struggles! My dd was begging me to get her tested right away...and she asks daily how much longer she has to wait! Yes, ADD runs in families. Have you read the book "Healing ADD" by Dr. Amen? He talks about 6 different types of ADHD. Of me and my 4 kids, all but my youngest seemed to fit one of the profiles (each different)....my dd11 fit the depressive ADD (or ADD with depression symptoms). We started her on some of his recommended supplements, and this may have been part of improvement, as well. (The suggested supplements for my more "classic" adhd child did not seem to work as well....stimulating him just gives a different set of issues.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafiki Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 nt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 My dd11 found it extremely freeing to realize that so many of her issues were just a processing problem. She's been much happier since we started that discussion (we're still waiting on appointments for testing.) She already senses she different, and that is depressing at that age...but to have an explanation helps! You might be surprised at her reaction that there could be an explanation for her struggles! My dd was begging me to get her tested right away...and she asks daily how much longer she has to wait! Yes, ADD runs in families. Have you read the book "Healing ADD" by Dr. Amen? He talks about 6 different types of ADHD. Of me and my 4 kids, all but my youngest seemed to fit one of the profiles (each different)....my dd11 fit the depressive ADD (or ADD with depression symptoms). We started her on some of his recommended supplements, and this may have been part of improvement, as well. (The suggested supplements for my more "classic" adhd child did not seem to work as well....stimulating him just gives a different set of issues.) :iagree: My dd also handled her central auditory processing dx really well. It took a huge weight off her shoulders, and it helped us as a family. Our communication really improved. It's a great thing for a kid--and the whole family-- to know that they're not "bad" and that there's a good reason for their difficulties. Anxiety can also go hand-in-hand with ADHD. I've often heard that if there's a mood disorder a doctor will want to treat that first. However, I think some parents will tell you their kid's anxiety got better when the ADHD was treated. I have more first hand experience with CAPD, and I can understand how it can cause anxiety, because someone is not perfectly in sync with what's going on around them and isn't getting the messages he needs to to be able to function smoothly, especially in group situations. Plus, they are bombarded with signals that they aren't able to process efficiently. I can see how these same things would apply to ADHD. There's the frustration of not being able to focus and think like you'd like to and then the worry that you're not meeting other people's expectations. There's also the fact that they simply get overwhelmed by stimulus they can't filter. I hope you find the answers and help you need. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenL Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 We are currently in the process of having ds tested with a NP and Educational Specialist after an initial diagnosis of ADHD-Inattentive. Like your dd, he has a lot of anxiety issues that seem compounded with the ADHD. I suspect some dyslexia too or possibly a LD despite him being very bright. We explained the entire process to ds by telling him that we saw he was struggling in certain areas and we wanted to make sure we got him the help he may need in order for him to become his best self and for us to help him become his best self. We explained that the testing was to make sure we weren't missing something that was making his schoolwork and life harder than it had to be. We spoke of how we all have issues and struggles and that sometimes there is help for these things. We tried to explain the testing in a positive light, that it would be a benefit for him because we cared. Thankfully, we an amazing NP whom ds adores who has helped the process of understanding. Part of me has learned that it's okay for kids to know that there is "something 'wrong' with them" so they can understand their strengths and weaknesses. Yet, it doesn't have to be presented as "wrong", kwim? Instead, it can be presented as a weakness vs. a burden/something insurmountable. We can rise above weaknesses through support, practice, new behaviors, etc and they are not things in which we should be embarrassed. I think it's all in the approach from mom and dad and those who are supporting the child. I hope I'm making sense - my boys are being distracting, so I'm trying to get my words out amidst chaos :D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I actually also made an appt for Emma to have her eyes checked because she is squinting a lot, complaining of headaches, and seems to often skip lines when reading. My husband has horrible eyesight so it's kind of expected that at least one of them will too. Emma is an excellent reader (and read earlier than my other two), but she can't remember a lot of details about many things she's read especially non-fiction. She definitely reads better than she understands, if that makes sense. Math continues to be a disaster. She cannot stay on task with math. She doesn't understand the directions unless I read them to her and break it in to small chunks. She doesn't get the concepts unless I explain it 20 ways and then it's still hard. What she knows today, she will forget tomorrow. She's in her own world most of the time. I don't know what's normal for her age and what's not. My oldest never had these problems (she has her own, lol) so I can't compare Emma to her. I don't know what's her personality and what's just abnormal. I do know it's causing a lot of difficulty and strife with her school work. Have you had her checked by a developmental optometrist? My daughter has almost exactly the same issues as those quoted above. Last week was her first evaluation after all of these issues appeared (beginning of 1st grade). She already wears glasses and had successful vision therapy a couple years ago, but her vision has deteriorated some more and she is also now diagnosed with auditory processing disorder. (My vision provider also offers services related to listening problems.) There are non-invasive, non-chemical approaches to address these issues. I note that my daughter is also a good reader, even though she has vision problems. She still manages to get completely lost when reading "word problems" in math. She also can't follow along in class as they switch between listening, looking, thinking, and writing. The symptoms of my kid's diagnosed problems can look a lot like ADD and are often misdiagnosed as such. Therefore, I recommend that before testing for ADD, you check for vision and listening issues first. (I'm not talking about hearing and eyesight, but the ability to process the information seen and heard.) I know some schools seem eager to diagnose kids with ADD and medicate them to make them easier to manage. Most folks don't have much awareness of vision and listening issues beyond glasses and hearing aids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 We are currently in the process of having ds tested with a NP and Educational Specialist after an initial diagnosis of ADHD-Inattentive. Like your dd, he has a lot of anxiety issues that seem compounded with the ADHD. I suspect some dyslexia too or possibly a LD despite him being very bright. We explained the entire process to ds by telling him that we saw he was struggling in certain areas and we wanted to make sure we got him the help he may need in order for him to become his best self and for us to help him become his best self. We explained that the testing was to make sure we weren't missing something that was making his schoolwork and life harder than it had to be. We spoke of how we all have issues and struggles and that sometimes there is help for these things. We tried to explain the testing in a positive light, that it would be a benefit for him because we cared. Thankfully, we an amazing NP whom ds adores who has helped the process of understanding. Part of me has learned that it's okay for kids to know that there is "something 'wrong' with them" so they can understand their strengths and weaknesses. Yet, it doesn't have to be presented as "wrong", kwim? Instead, it can be presented as a weakness vs. a burden/something insurmountable. We can rise above weaknesses through support, practice, new behaviors, etc and they are not things in which we should be embarrassed. I think it's all in the approach from mom and dad and those who are supporting the child. I hope I'm making sense - my boys are being distracting, so I'm trying to get my words out amidst chaos :D. To add to these excellent thoughts, I think we've made it clear to dd that everyone has something to deal with. Somehow this has sunk in, and I don't think she sees herself as being alone in having her processing problem. The truly good thing about this attitude is that it's made her very compassionate toward others. When she's been in the presence of someone who makes a disparaging comment about another person's disability or mental illness, right away she jumps to the defense and says something like, "Everyone develops differently. It's not their fault." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 Have you had her checked by a developmental optometrist? My daughter has almost exactly the same issues as those quoted above. Last week was her first evaluation after all of these issues appeared (beginning of 1st grade). She already wears glasses and had successful vision therapy a couple years ago, but her vision has deteriorated some more and she is also now diagnosed with auditory processing disorder. (My vision provider also offers services related to listening problems.) There are non-invasive, non-chemical approaches to address these issues. I note that my daughter is also a good reader, even though she has vision problems. She still manages to get completely lost when reading "word problems" in math. She also can't follow along in class as they switch between listening, looking, thinking, and writing. The symptoms of my kid's diagnosed problems can look a lot like ADD and are often misdiagnosed as such. Therefore, I recommend that before testing for ADD, you check for vision and listening issues first. (I'm not talking about hearing and eyesight, but the ability to process the information seen and heard.) I know some schools seem eager to diagnose kids with ADD and medicate them to make them easier to manage. Most folks don't have much awareness of vision and listening issues beyond glasses and hearing aids. I haven't had her seen by a developmental optometrist. The closest one to us is 1.5 hours away, and we have ZERO vision coverage. I'm hoping and praying that my dh's company adds vision coverage for 2013, but I'm not holding my breath on that one. If we do find out that's what she needs, we will figure out a way to make it happen. I think after we get the regular vision screening next week that I will call that office and see, at least, how it works and check on pricing. When I talked to the exceptional children's program coordinator (who I happened to have gone to school with from 7th-12th grade), she was awesome and so reassuring! She said they are happy to work with our pediatrician and the behavioral pediatrician to find out what's going on. She also said they will do a ton of tests, one of which will test for processing disorders (hope I understood that correctly). I'm still learning about all of this, but I'm hoping to have a lot more knowledge when I for the meeting next week. Thankfully I don't think the school staff will be overly anxious to diagnose her with ADD and leave out other stuff. They have nothing to gain from it. They won't receive any extra funding from any diagnosis she might have. They aren't required to perform any services to homeschool students beyond speech and OT, if needed. I hope that will give them an unbiased view and we won't have the "quick" ADD label, kwim? I hope I'm not just overly optimistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 My dd11 found it extremely freeing to realize that so many of her issues were just a processing problem. She's been much happier since we started that discussion (we're still waiting on appointments for testing.) She already senses she different, and that is depressing at that age...but to have an explanation helps! You might be surprised at her reaction that there could be an explanation for her struggles! My dd was begging me to get her tested right away...and she asks daily how much longer she has to wait! Yes, ADD runs in families. Have you read the book "Healing ADD" by Dr. Amen? He talks about 6 different types of ADHD. Of me and my 4 kids, all but my youngest seemed to fit one of the profiles (each different)....my dd11 fit the depressive ADD (or ADD with depression symptoms). We started her on some of his recommended supplements, and this may have been part of improvement, as well. (The suggested supplements for my more "classic" adhd child did not seem to work as well....stimulating him just gives a different set of issues.) :iagree: My dd also handled her central auditory processing dx really well. It took a huge weight off her shoulders, and it helped us as a family. Our communication really improved. It's a great thing for a kid--and the whole family-- to know that they're not "bad" and that there's a good reason for their difficulties. Anxiety can also go hand-in-hand with ADHD. I've often heard that if there's a mood disorder a doctor will want to treat that first. However, I think some parents will tell you their kid's anxiety got better when the ADHD was treated. I have more first hand experience with CAPD, and I can understand how it can cause anxiety, because someone is not perfectly in sync with what's going on around them and isn't getting the messages he needs to to be able to function smoothly, especially in group situations. Plus, they are bombarded with signals that they aren't able to process efficiently. I can see how these same things would apply to ADHD. There's the frustration of not being able to focus and think like you'd like to and then the worry that you're not meeting other people's expectations. There's also the fact that they simply get overwhelmed by stimulus they can't filter. I hope you find the answers and help you need. :grouphug: We are currently in the process of having ds tested with a NP and Educational Specialist after an initial diagnosis of ADHD-Inattentive. Like your dd, he has a lot of anxiety issues that seem compounded with the ADHD. I suspect some dyslexia too or possibly a LD despite him being very bright. We explained the entire process to ds by telling him that we saw he was struggling in certain areas and we wanted to make sure we got him the help he may need in order for him to become his best self and for us to help him become his best self. We explained that the testing was to make sure we weren't missing something that was making his schoolwork and life harder than it had to be. We spoke of how we all have issues and struggles and that sometimes there is help for these things. We tried to explain the testing in a positive light, that it would be a benefit for him because we cared. Thankfully, we an amazing NP whom ds adores who has helped the process of understanding. Part of me has learned that it's okay for kids to know that there is "something 'wrong' with them" so they can understand their strengths and weaknesses. Yet, it doesn't have to be presented as "wrong", kwim? Instead, it can be presented as a weakness vs. a burden/something insurmountable. We can rise above weaknesses through support, practice, new behaviors, etc and they are not things in which we should be embarrassed. I think it's all in the approach from mom and dad and those who are supporting the child. I hope I'm making sense - my boys are being distracting, so I'm trying to get my words out amidst chaos :D. To add to these excellent thoughts, I think we've made it clear to dd that everyone has something to deal with. Somehow this has sunk in, and I don't think she sees herself as being alone in having her processing problem. The truly good thing about this attitude is that it's made her very compassionate toward others. When she's been in the presence of someone who makes a disparaging comment about another person's disability or mental illness, right away she jumps to the defense and says something like, "Everyone develops differently. It's not their fault." Thank you all so much. I had a nice little talk with Emma today and told her that I feel like she and I just learn very differently so I need someone to talk to us and help me find new ways to teach her. I hope that will discourage any negative thoughts she may have. I do worry that the actual testing process will upset her because she is so easily upset, but I am just going to pray that all goes well. I hope I can get to the bottom of this with all these resources. I would like to know what is causing what. Ya know? Thanks again so much!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaughingCat Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I think after we get the regular vision screening next week that I will call that office and see, at least, how it works and check on pricing. If you're considering doing the COVD exam seriously -I would strongly consider getting the regular vision screening there instead of at a regular eye Dr. office. Otherwise you'll essentially be doing the regular screening twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenL Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Thank you all so much. I had a nice little talk with Emma today and told her that I feel like she and I just learn very differently so I need someone to talk to us and help me find new ways to teach her. I hope that will discourage any negative thoughts she may have. I do worry that the actual testing process will upset her because she is so easily upset, but I am just going to pray that all goes well. I hope I can get to the bottom of this with all these resources. I would like to know what is causing what. Ya know? Thanks again so much!!! I'm so glad you discussed it with her to give her a heads-up. Ds seemed relieved when we told him we were getting help. He finished his last testing session today - sessions he actually enjoyed attending! We just kept reassuring him if he seemed like he was nervous or going to be upset. Just keep providing the praise and support - you're doing a great job already, Nakia, by reaching out here and showing your concern and desire to help. I completely understand how hard it is to walk that fine line between sharing your concerns with your child and not letting your own anxieties about the situation come forth too strongly. It will be okay! :grouphug: I will be praying for you and Emma! Keep us posted :001_smile:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targhee Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I just thought of something else. Is it common to have more than one child in a family with ADD and/or ADHD? My youngest has ADHD. I have three kids with ADD/ADHD. My husband and brother both are (IMO) undiagnosed. It is very common for it to run in families. Current thought about what ADD/ADHD really is is delayed or deficient development of the prefrontal lobe, which is the last area of the brain to develop anyway, but for those with the condition it is even slower and may never reach the same stage of development as others. This area of the brain is in charge of most of your "executive functioning" (everything from emotional control, to time management, to organizational skills). I am sure you already know most of this since your son is ADHD. Having two of my own who are hyperactive, and one who is ADD I can say they look a lot different, even though they stem from the same developmental lag. My own Dd sounds similar to yours in many ways. Especially in reading comprehension. My DD is so bright in so many ways, and then we run into things and I feel like "why don't you get this?" Anyway, my real reason for posting was to say I hope you get the answers you are looking for with you assessments. Best wishes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Ok, I'll reply, but I haven't reread the comments by the others to know if this has already been said. Yes, the adhd/spectrum/whatever label of kids does run in families. You wouldn't be the first to get evals and then realize it came from one of the parents. Yes, if your dh is known for having vision problems, that's a concern. Yes, I would get her eyes tested. Yes, I would do it with a developmental optometrist and not waste your money with the regular one. I say that because we didn't. We got our regular exam with the regular eye doc and then the developmental one with the developmental doc. Don't do that. If the developmental optometrist is a long way away STILL do the regular eval with the developmental optometrist. I'm driving 2.5 hours each way tomorrow for speech therapy, and I drive almost an hour each way for our vision and dentist. I live it and understand the hassle. It's worth the effort for the more thorough evals. If you want to make it feel more worth the while, get all your kids checked on that day. :D Yes, you can start with just a regular eye exam and let them *screen* her for developmental stuff. Who knows, maybe she just needs glasses or something simple. Not EVERYONE needs VT. But everyone should at least get a basic eye exam. It's like going to the dentist or other basic care; just do it. If she's a good reader but nothing sticks with the non-fiction, she's just not engaged. Yeah, you've got enough little tickmarks there to think ADHD. No you don't want to conclude it off a survey. You know, this is just me, but the more I read books like the one by Cindy Gaddis the more I realize our np did us a great service. At the time he had, because I came out with such an ACCEPTANCE of her and peace. It's why I've become such a big promoter of evals. I'm not sure everyone does what he did for us. He didn't care about labels and didn't suggest meds. What he cared about was how to work with her, what was strong, helping us see things we hadn't seen before that were GOOD, how to work WITH her, not against her. And I'm only now beginning to realize how unusual that was. So I don't know what your options are on evals, but I suggest you just take your time and sort that out. Sometimes the ps system does an ok job, and sometimes, depending on the district, you get nominal help. You might get a sheet of test scores and not a bit of advice on what to DO with those scores. You could then take those scores and *pay* a np to give you advice. Or you could pay privately for the eval. Or you bring the scores on here and ask what to do, lol. What I'm saying is that while the eval is helpful, it's not the label but figuring out what you DO with the scores and label. So that's where I'd put your thoughts. You're going to find someone to give you the scores, yes. When you find out concretely her processing speed and EF (executive function) age equivalents, probably a lot will click for you. But then you still don't know how to change your lives and get peace, kwim? I take a big grain of salt with Cindy Gaddis' comments about therapies, because they don't match our situation (either with my dd or ds). BUT, I'm finding as I read her book that her actual comments on education (not medical stuff) are right in line with what our neuropsych said and what brings peace with these kids. I think right now you'd trade an awful lot for a dose of peace. I think you probably want that even more than you want the label or the eyes checked. So I'm saying open your mind to some new ways of working together. Get the ebook from Cindy (I think it was $11), download it, have an out of body experience, then decide what sticks and what might shift your situation a little. You don't have to change EVERYTHING, but you might realize you have some changes you could make that would make a difference. Start somewhere, start at home. See to me, and this is just me, I'd be asking what you want the evals to give you. Yes, I would want to know if my child has physical vision problems. That's important to get checked. But you can't make decisions on things like meds till you've evaluated whether you've changed everything else that CAN be changed to help them work better. This is a really crunchy time of year. You've been working for a number of weeks (10?), and the kids start to get tired. What they could tolerate has gotten to the point of wearing them out, and it's really showing. The eval can help you see attention, yes. It can show you processing speed (this was huge in our house, I was trying to teach her and had to constantly bite my tongue and WAIT for the click), etc. etc. But you're also paying someone to tell you what you already know in your heart, that you chose whether you want your child to be a failure or success by defining the task, that these kids are AMAZING and that the schoolwork we pick is sometimes very narrow compared to how broad the kids' interests and abilities are. On a more practical level, I think you might need to move on from teaching her math. Just being blunt. I moved on, lol. Teaching Textbooks all the way, sister. :D I like TT and BJU. After RS (RightStart) for early elementary, we had a few bumps and went to BJU. When we tried to go from BJU 6 old edition to BJU7 new, we floundered. We tried MM, spun our wheels, and finally headed over to TT for pre-algebra. That was AWESOME, and we're staying put. What we've been doing this year is TT algebra 1 by herself and just the challenging problems from the BJU pre-algebra (new edition, serious doozies!) with me. It's a good combo. TT is BEAUTIFUL for these kids. So it doesn't work for someone else's VSL kid with a different label. I'm saying if your label is adhd/creative/girl, it's turning out to be pretty bang-up in our house. Cute characters, short lessons, lots happening so about the time their mind wanders they're drawn back in, and ever-patient spiral. The humor and whitty story problems have been just the thing to get her math facts faster, and she had a BIG bump in her computation scores this year. (Well at least it was big in our house after years and years of being unable to get that score to move!) I know someone else who is alternating a bit, TT one year, BJU another, for elementary. I think that might give you the best of both worlds. Just don't be afraid to sub it out a bit. It can make a HUGE difference. Sometimes fixing one problem subject fixes the whole day. That one problem may be making the rest of the day miserable! On non-fiction reading, well we have that problem in our house, sigh. I've decided not to make it a problem. You said your dd is a good reader? Well I know mine is. She tests as age 30+ on reading level on multiple tests (WJIII, another test with the np, etc.), but you hand her something she has no background on or doesn't care about and she will retain ZILCH. Nuts, she retains little when she WANTS to understand it, lol. So I can make it a problem or I can come back to it a different way. As the np put it, when she wants to and is engaged (college), she will. But stuff she's not engaged on is a no go. And does it REALLY MATTER? I mean SERIOUSLY, does it matter if your kid reads that book on worms? Is it REALLY not good enough that they've been reading every single work by Tolkien on the side as voraciously as they can? Our np's advice was that in the end she'll get there and not to sweat it, that it was engagement and attention, not a phonics issue or character or anything else. He pretty much said go outside the box as much as possible and stop sweating it. It's not that she *can't* but that she doesn't *need* to. In fact, oftentimes the alternate methods are going to be more memorable and *better* for her. So sometimes we read the science book for background, and sometimes we watch a video instead. If I really want her to read it, I'll make outline notes for her to fill in as she reads. Structure helps, clear expectations help. I'm walking my way through it this year and just trying to be very responsive and reasonable. You can have that kind of give and take. She's kind of an odd bird on the structure thing btw. Finally one day, when I was totally exasperated, I said "So you want to unschool but you want me to tell you what to do?!?!" Yup. :lol: My advice is to find peace by not fighting them. :) And yes, I mean that to be provocative. I'm not talking about disciplinary fighting or arguing. I'm talking about fighting who they ARE or who they can be by shoving them into a mold that isn't going to fit. Your goal is to plant some dirt around them and help them BLOSSOM. Unfortunately, our plants don't all need the same dirt. You'll know when you've got it right, because they start to blossom. You may be burn out from working for 10+ weeks, which is why I mention it. Your kids may be TIRED. We're in our 2nd week of "let's do a lot of cleaning and creative stuff!" Seriously, they may be tired. You may or may not need major academic changes to find peace. It might be you trim a little, change one thing, and make more time for some things they need (those creative outlets, etc.). I don't know. It's ok to shake things up a bit. She's 9, right? Absolutely positively NOTHING will go wrong if you take off the entire rest of the year and do nothing but sculpt and craft and listen to read alouds and watch science videos. I kid you not. I know, because my dd was 9.5 when I had my ds. :D Shook my world after having an only for so long! You can loosen a lot and go with the flow and find some peace and still be FINE, honest. In fact, you might do that and realize it solves your problem entirely. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I haven't had her seen by a developmental optometrist. The closest one to us is 1.5 hours away, and we have ZERO vision coverage. I'm hoping and praying that my dh's company adds vision coverage for 2013, but I'm not holding my breath on that one. If we do find out that's what she needs, we will figure out a way to make it happen. I think after we get the regular vision screening next week that I will call that office and see, at least, how it works and check on pricing. When I talked to the exceptional children's program coordinator (who I happened to have gone to school with from 7th-12th grade), she was awesome and so reassuring! She said they are happy to work with our pediatrician and the behavioral pediatrician to find out what's going on. She also said they will do a ton of tests, one of which will test for processing disorders (hope I understood that correctly). I'm still learning about all of this, but I'm hoping to have a lot more knowledge when I for the meeting next week. Thankfully I don't think the school staff will be overly anxious to diagnose her with ADD and leave out other stuff. They have nothing to gain from it. They won't receive any extra funding from any diagnosis she might have. They aren't required to perform any services to homeschool students beyond speech and OT, if needed. I hope that will give them an unbiased view and we won't have the "quick" ADD label, kwim? I hope I'm not just overly optimistic. Few things. One, please consider canceling the regular optometrist appt. and doing that regular eval with the developmental optometrist. It costs the same but will get you the extra screening. She might not even NEED the developmental eval, so doing the regular eye exam with the screening with the dev. optometrist could save you a ton of money. The regular optometrist I took dd to totally missed some things the dev. optom. caught. I just don't think it's worth the money for the regular doc eval if you know you want to see a dev. optom. Make the effort to get the regular exam through the dev. optom. Next, that's fabulous that your local ps are so congenial and helpful!! Definitely take advantage of this!!! You pay taxes, so use it. You're going to get SO much more info from this than just a label. The point is NOT the label, at least to me. The point is the info in those scores and what it tells you about how to work with her. I'm not a score guru, but if the ps doesn't help you understand them you can post here for others' feedback or take them to a private psych for advice (typically $100 an hour). I think you're going to be able to figure it out though. So that's good that you've got someone already willing to help you! :) What did we get from the eval besides a label? How about surprising IQ scores? CTOPP scores that helped me sort out that issue. Processing speed and working memory. EF. Just go through the process and see what tests your school does. A good eval is way more than a label, that's for sure. For us it made this whole epiphany of "That's why!"... Well cool, I'm glad you could make some tracks on this. I'll backpedal for one second and say I think there's something unhealthy about going into an eval telling your kid you're doing it because there's something WRONG with them. If all it is is adhd, it's not WRONG; it's DIFFERENT. We want the eval so we can understand how you think better so we can teach you better and connect with you better. It's not so you can slap a label on them and decide this kid is broken, this is whole. I have to tell you, my kid isn't BROKEN. She has a strong sense of self and is very good at certain things. There's nothing WRONG with her, and that wasn't the point of the eval. I needed to know there if there were holes in what I had failed to do, and I needed to know how to connect with her better. She's not BROKEN or messed up. Personally, I find nt (neurotypical) kids the oddity. They're so much less interesting, with less drive, less creativity. They're too compliant and not nearly as interesting to be with. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Personally, I find nt (neurotypical) kids the oddity. They're so much less interesting, with less drive, less creativity. They're too compliant and not nearly as interesting to be with. :D I have to admit that I'm not sure what I'd do with a completely "normal" child. I grew up in a family that was proud to be "different"! I used to wear a button that said, "why be normal?" And I really felt that way. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DyslexicParent Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 (edited) One, please consider canceling the regular optometrist appt. and doing that regular eval with the developmental optometrist. It costs the same but will get you the extra screening. Here in Canada, the regular eye exam is free for children, but going to a developmental optometrist will cost at least $200 out-of-pocket. I keep getting warned off from vision therapy, but if all the evidence-based treatments such as neurofeedback don't work this school year, I'll have to chose among the unproven treatments such as VT, The Learning Breakthrough Program, Interactive Metronome or Integrated Listening Systems. Aside from VT, has anybody found any of these alternative treatments efficacious? Edited November 2, 2012 by DyslexicParent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 (edited) Here in Canada, the regular eye exam is free for children, but going to a developmental optometrist will cost at least $200 out-of-pocket. I keep getting warned off from vision therapy, but if all the evidence-based treatments such as neurofeedback don't work this school year, I'll have to chose among the unproven treatments such as VT, The Learning Breakthrough Program, Interactive Metronome or Integrated Listening Systems. Aside from VT, has anybody found any of these alternative treatments efficacious? To be clear, a developmental optometrist also offers regular optometry services, including regular eye exams. At a regular eye exam, a developmental optometrist may discuss and offer a recommendation on whether a developmental vision evaluation is warranted, i.e., they may screen for potential issues, especially when you tell them your concerns. The developmental vision evaluation is a separate appointment. If you are near a developmental optometrist in Canada, I would think you could do the regular eye exam at their office. Personally, I don't lump VT in with IM and Integrated Listening. We've done VT and the listening. Curiously, the combo of OT with listening dramatically improved dd's ability to do the VT exercises (long story, we started VT, and the daily exercises were a nightmare to get done, but for scheduling purposes we took a break from VT while we did a short, intensive program of OT with listening - 3 months 2-3x per week - and upon returning to VT, the difference was dramatic). Note that for at least one type of vision issue, convergence insufficiency, the research does show effectiveness, though I don't have that link at my fingertips. As far as I recall though I haven't looked in a long while, the other research on VT involved poorly-designed studies. With a good COVD optometrist (and yes, quality varies), progress is measurable, as in, with actual numbers on the various tests that they do. My feeling is that listening can help some kids, though often that benefit may go away once the listening therapy stops. Our OT used it for purposes of facilitating neuroplasticity, and while I remain skeptical, there is something to that, something that should be explored in years to come. If you have to put your money somewhere, between IM, listening and VT, I would definitely explore VT first. Eta, there are situations in which it may make sense to do OT first. I don't remember much about IM, though one of the developmental optometrist offices we went to also offered IM - I don't know whether the kids did so before, during or after VT. Interestingly, dd had some VT exercises that involved the metronome, though it's been about five years now so it's hard to remember. Edited November 2, 2012 by wapiti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DyslexicParent Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Eta, there are situations in which it may make sense to do OT first. What does "Eta" mean? By OT, do you mean that the occupational therapist did sensory integration training for an autistic child? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 What does "Eta" mean? By OT, do you mean that the occupational therapist did sensory integration training for an autistic child? eta = edited to add yes, OT = occupational therapy for sensory processing issues, but child is not autistic. Not all kids with sensory processing disorder (SPD, also known as sensory integration disorder, SID) are autistic. SPD involves problems with the central nervous system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 Thank you all soooo much!! I'd like to respond to each post and each pm, but I don't have time right now. I did want to jump on, though, and say that I made Emma an appointment with the doctor whose name I got from the COVD website. The appointment is 11/27 so not that far off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Here in Canada, the regular eye exam is free for children, but going to a developmental optometrist will cost at least $200 out-of-pocket. I keep getting warned off from vision therapy, but if all the evidence-based treatments such as neurofeedback don't work this school year, I'll have to chose among the unproven treatments such as VT, The Learning Breakthrough Program, Interactive Metronome or Integrated Listening Systems. Aside from VT, has anybody found any of these alternative treatments efficacious? Like wapiti said, VT is not for the same things as neurofeedback and IM. VT is for *vision* problems. Neurofeedback is for attention. IM is working memory and getting things to work together. And none of those are dyslexia, which I thought was your concern. You don't just throw therapies at a problem. Each therapy has a purpose. And yes, like wapiti said, a devel. optometrist does regular eye exams as well. That's what I suggest people get as a starting point, since it gives them a screening for the developmental stuff without committing to the cost of a full devel. eval. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.