Need advice/ideas on dealing with dd13

[Changed]

This is hard for me to figure out because I don't know what my "philosphy" on homeschool is. Part of me thinks it should be scheduled with a set start time and finish time, no goofing off until school's done (This is how dh thinks it should be). The other part of me thinks one of the joys of hs'ing is doing whatever we want, whenever we want.

 

Anyway, we are nearing the end of our third week of 8th grade. This is our fourth year hs'ing, but the first year we actually started out at home (pulled her from 2nd, 4th, and 6th to finish the year at home, and now have finally decided to hs all the rest of the way). The first week she got up at 7am, started school at 8am and worked until lunch. Took an hour for lunch and then finished up. We would do math together while the littles napped.

 

The second week started out closer to 9am, longer lunch break, finishing up later d/t running errands and such during "school" hours.

 

The third (and present week) she is two days "behind" in several subjects and is taking a nap right now having done no school yet. It's almost 2pm. :001_huh: She does usually finish everything before the week is up, but if she doesn't want to do it she just keeps pushing it aside knowing that I will a. forget about it or b. be to busy to keep insisting she does it. *sigh*

 

Please give me the kick in the rear I need. What should our day look like? My dh would not be happy if he knew she was up until midnight last night taking a geography test, only to be sleeping the afternoon away. I don't mind the lack of schedule so much as the fact that when she's not on a schedule, she just tries to fly through things to "get 'r done", and I don't feel like she's learning much.

 

I'm sure this has been discussed many times before, but if you could humor me by answering me directly, or linking me to helpful threads. :)

[Anne in CA]

I am afraid that a schedule is just a must for a student. Routine is an essential tool to getting things done IME. I, myself, and just now getting back to a house keeping routine, because without that routine my home and yard were slowly falling apart. Sad but true.

 

I would make sure that she was up at 7:00 if you are, and starting school at 8:00. I would make her finish the undone work on Saturday and Sunday this week and keep to a schedule as much as having younger children permits.

 

Of course deviate from a schedule for field trips, dr's appointments, and a sunny day with friends to go hiking when time permits, but most of the time a schedule is a boundary that even grown ups need.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Have a start time for sure, but consider letting her start at 9, instead of 8, if that works better for her. Kids at this age need sleep, and their rhythms are screwed up relative to childrens and adults rhythms, such that it's normal for them to stay up later and sleep later. Interesting discussion of the evidence for this (among other things) can be found in the book Nurture Shock.

 

I struggle with the scheduled vs. flexible days, too, and the reality is that for us, having a schedule - a time/order when each subject happens - helps it happen consistently. While we do deviate from the schedule under special circumstances, for the most part we do the same subjects at the same times each day.

[MamaT]

We start at the same time every morning, and other than 1/2 hour for lunch, do nothing other than school until it is done. I think having a set time to start, and then working until assignments for the day are done, is the only way not to get behind.

[Changed]

I told her we were starting at 9am tomorrow and working until we were done...or until the usual†done†time and we'd finish on Saturday. All the kids have been sick this week so she's been helping me and that's a little of the reason for her being behind.

 

But what do I do when she just constantly gets distracted, fixes her hair, etc, and just generally stalls. I don't have the time or energy to tell her 15 times an hour to get to work. How can I motivate her to do her work without me having to constantly nag her? How do you punish your kids for this?

[regentrude]

But what do I do when she just constantly gets distracted, fixes her hair, etc, and just generally stalls. I don't have the time or energy to tell her 15 times an hour to get to work. How can I motivate her to do her work without me having to constantly nag her? How do you punish your kids for this?

 

I do not punish my kids for becoming distracted - they just earn the logical consequence of their actions: they lose the privilege of working independently and have to work under my direct supervision.

Which would mean sitting next to me at the kitchen table or in my office, instead of working in their rooms. This way, I can watch and immediately redirect. They hate it, and I never have to do this for long.

[5LittleMonkeys]

I do not punish my kids for becoming distracted - they just earn the logical consequence of their actions: they lose the privilege of working independently and have to work under my direct supervision.

Which would mean sitting next to me at the kitchen table or in my office, instead of working in their rooms. This way, I can watch and immediately redirect. They hate it, and I never have to do this for long.

 

:iagree:

 

Here is the kick in your pants. You chose to homeschool her therefore it is your responsibility to make sure she is getting educated. That means you have to train her to be diligent in her work, even if that means adjusting your priorities so that you aren't distracted from making sure she is staying on task during school time.

 

I think a schedule would be a good idea for both of you. It doesn't have to be set in stone and inflexible; it needs to be realistic. Let her have a say in how to organize the day...make certain things absolute such as working for a certain number of hours a day or a week, needing to be done with school at a specific time of the day, or if there are days you don't want school going on, and what time of the day she needs to do subjects that require your instruction or help (you get to choose those times). Other than that let her decide when she will start, how many breaks she takes, what days she works, what order she does her work in, and so on. Post the schedule where it is visible to everyone and both of you put your signature on it.

 

I've found, with my older dc, that if we schedule every subject with weekly assignments due on Sunday afternoon, it gives them much more of a sense of flexibility. They shoot to have their work done on Fri., but if something comes up they know they have until Sun. to catch up. I don't allow work to spill over from week to week because, in our house, that equals too much slacking and getting behind.

 

I do have to stay on top of them though, especially dd13. They work in their rooms, but I ask to see there work throughout the day. I also make a huge effort to make my scheduled appointments with them (the time I work one on one with them). I show them by example that their education is a priority.

 

It will take a commitment from both of you, but if you keep each other accountable and make this a priority soon it will feel like second nature.

[Changed]

I do not punish my kids for becoming distracted - they just earn the logical consequence of their actions: they lose the privilege of working independently and have to work under my direct supervision.

Which would mean sitting next to me at the kitchen table or in my office, instead of working in their rooms. This way, I can watch and immediately redirect. They hate it, and I never have to do this for long.

 

Maybe punish was too strong a word. I guess I meant what are the consequences of them not getting their work done? She would hate for me to sit next to her, but I'm not sure I could do that with the two little ones. I can only give her one-on-one time when they're napping.

 

:iagree:

 

Here is the kick in your pants. You chose to homeschool her therefore it is your responsibility to make sure she is getting educated. That means you have to train her to be diligent in her work, even if that means adjusting your priorities so that you aren't distracted from making sure she is staying on task during school time.

 

I think a schedule would be a good idea for both of you. It doesn't have to be set in stone and inflexible; it needs to be realistic. Let her have a say in how to organize the day...make certain things absolute such as working for a certain number of hours a day or a week, needing to be done with school at a specific time of the day, or if there are days you don't want school going on, and what time of the day she needs to do subjects that require your instruction or help (you get to choose those times). Other than that let her decide when she will start, how many breaks she takes, what days she works, what order she does her work in, and so on. Post the schedule where it is visible to everyone and both of you put your signature on it.

 

I've found, with my older dc, that if we schedule every subject with weekly assignments due on Sunday afternoon, it gives them much more of a sense of flexibility. They shoot to have their work done on Fri., but if something comes up they know they have until Sun. to catch up. I don't allow work to spill over from week to week because, in our house, that equals too much slacking and getting behind.

 

I do have to stay on top of them though, especially dd13. They work in their rooms, but I ask to see there work throughout the day. I also make a huge effort to make my scheduled appointments with them (the time I work one on one with them). I show them by example that their education is a priority.

 

It will take a commitment from both of you, but if you keep each other accountable and make this a priority soon it will feel like second nature.

Thank you for the kick! The first two Weeks I did try to give weekly assignments, but she saves it all for thur, Fri, and, sat and turn just rushes through it. So I think, and she agreed, that she does better with daily assignments to keep her on task. Odd course, if she doesn't finish something she would have until sun. But, honestly

I don't want to be helping her with school work on the weekend, yk??

[MomatHWTK]

I wonder if the distractability was a contributing factor at school as well. If so, she may have some genuine issue that needs to be addressed through behavior modification or medication.

 

Beyond that, if she were in a ps setting, there would be a live person standing in the room telling her to stay on task, right? Yes, there might be 25 other students, but there's still a teacher who has to be there for the most part.

 

Yes, you can give one on one time when the littles are awake. Or at least one or three time with two of the three getting redirected while you are actually talking to and instructing the third. Look at the signature lines on this board. If we all waited until the littles were asleep, school would only be done at midnight. Or in my case, it would be 4 a.m. when the little finally gives up and falls asleep!

 

If you are her teacher, then teaching her is now your job. You determine a lesson plan and schedule, you identify your students weaknesses, you work to address those weaknesses or accomodate them.

 

You can be flexible in how you schedule, but it's up to the teacher to get the materials taught. Some of the parents here have taught their children to be independent in their studies, but I'm sure it took more than a few weeks. ;)

 

In our school, we school in two blocks, one in the late afternoon and a second in the evening because that's what works for all of us. In addition, I have independent reading assignments for my two olders to complete each day. With a 13 year old, I would be honest and sit down with her and talk it out. Show her what must be completed, discuss your concerns that you are both going to be in trouble with the principal if things fall too far behaind and work out a plan. You are an education team now. You can make it work, but it will be work to learn new, good habits.

 

ETA: I saw you have another on the way. I am exhausted when pregnant. In that situation, I would probably go with as much online learning as possible and just hang out in the room with her and the littles keeping her on task. (A nice couch next to the computer maybe?)

Edited August 31, 2012 by MomatHWTK

[kewb]

After completing 8th grade with my son last year I have come to the conclusion that no one learns anything in middle school. Everyone is just biding their time until the hormonal rampage is over. Sure, maybe a fact or two sticks, but overall just waiting for the emotion rollercoaster to stop.

[5LittleMonkeys]

I don't want to be helping her with school work on the weekend, yk??

 

Yes, I know exactly what you mean because I have two older dc that I have to do this with. You make sure those things you have to help her with are scheduled for the days and times YOU want. The other things she doesn't need help with can be done when she decides, but if they aren't done by Sunday afternoon then there is a consequence. Such as sitting next to you the next week to do all her work, losing electronics for the following week, not getting to do something, etc.

 

Hang in there!

[PeterPan]

Wish I had some great words of wisdom for you and not just commiseration. I have the 10 year gap too, and it really makes it hard to teach. You don't get the comraderie of having the kids closer or the competition/motivation to finish so they can play together. It's only just distraction and teen vs. toddler annoyances and power struggles.

 

So yes, what she's doing is what my dd is doing. I think it's motivation, reality check, lots of things. I think it's not fun to work if mom and the littles get to play while she sits doing her daily drudgery. She can't work with the littles underfoot but doesn't want to be left alone. (at least that's how it is here) When I look at your dd's list, a lot of that looks mom-driven. I've tried to get a lot of our stuff set up such that she can do it herself. I'm moving to *very clear* expectations of how I want the day to flow.

 

Just as an outside thought, are you perhaps irritable or tired with your pregnancy? I mean, seriously, it might be what she's doing is within the realm of normal for the age (since it sounds like my dd) and that it's just bugging you more or frustrating you more because you're hormonal. :)

 

What we did at the end of last year, and what I may do again this year if necessary, is I had *dh* wake her up each morning. I totally agree with making sure they get enough sleep, which is why I'm not doing it now. On the other hand, that husband power can be very helpful. Only works out well though if they go to bed early, which doesn't happen while the days are still so long. Come winter though, that's easier to enforce.

[Changed]

Yes, I know exactly what you mean because I have two older dc that I have to do this with. You make sure those things you have to help her with are scheduled for the days and times YOU want. The other things she doesn't need help with can be done when she decides, but if they aren't done by Sunday afternoon then there is a consequence. Such as sitting next to you the next week to do all her work, losing electronics for the following week, not getting to do something, etc.

 

Hang in there!

 

Good point. I need to be sure and the stuff I have to "teach" is done when it's convenient for me.

 

Wish I had some great words of wisdom for you and not just commiseration. I have the 10 year gap too, and it really makes it hard to teach. You don't get the comraderie of having the kids closer or the competition/motivation to finish so they can play together. It's only just distraction and teen vs. toddler annoyances and power struggles.

 

So yes, what she's doing is what my dd is doing. I think it's motivation, reality check, lots of things. I think it's not fun to work if mom and the littles get to play while she sits doing her daily drudgery. She can't work with the littles underfoot but doesn't want to be left alone. (at least that's how it is here) When I look at your dd's list, a lot of that looks mom-driven. I've tried to get a lot of our stuff set up such that she can do it herself. I'm moving to *very clear* expectations of how I want the day to flow.

 

Just as an outside thought, are you perhaps irritable or tired with your pregnancy? I mean, seriously, it might be what she's doing is within the realm of normal for the age (since it sounds like my dd) and that it's just bugging you more or frustrating you more because you're hormonal. :)

 

What we did at the end of last year, and what I may do again this year if necessary, is I had *dh* wake her up each morning. I totally agree with making sure they get enough sleep, which is why I'm not doing it now. On the other hand, that husband power can be very helpful. Only works out well though if they go to bed early, which doesn't happen while the days are still so long. Come winter though, that's easier to enforce.

 

Wow! It's like you're in my house (and my head)!!! :001_huh: :D

 

The 10 year gap definitely makes things harder school-wise, although I would have never had three littles in four years without her help! She doesn't want to "miss" out on the fun by going to her room to concentrate (she's very social), yet being in the room with us is very distracting for her. And she enjoys playing with the kiddos.

 

Irritable?! Tired?! Hormonal?! How could you suggest such a thing?! :lol: You are probably right on the money there. Just this morning I was standing at the kitchen sink ranting, "I'm just so sick and tired of *yadda* *yadda* *this and that*!! I'm just sick and tired in general!" My poor family. I really need sleep. The littles have had fevers, diarrhea, and vomiting, so we've gotten very little sleep all week. Oh! And dd13 kept complaining all week of her ear hurting and just general puny-ness so I finally quit ignoring her and took her to the doctor today--she has an ear infection. *sigh* Poor kid probably just hasn't had the energy to do much of anything this week. We've decided to completely ignore this week and pretend like it was never supposed to exist. We'll just pick up next week. No way am I going to make her play catch up all weekend.

 

kewb--I've had the same thoughts at times!

 

MomatHWTK--thanks for the good advice!

 

Thank you all for the kicks and the encouragement!

[besroma]

I hope next week goes better for you.

 

I also homeschool with a 10-year age gap, and it is hard....and even harder when pregnant.

 

You have gotten a lot of good advice. I just wanted to offer additional encouragement. :grouphug:

[redsquirrel]

Huh, when you mentioned a mid-day nap I was wondering if she was ill. Sounds like she was.

 

My son and I sit down at some point on the weekend and make a schedule for the following week. I already know what we are going to cover, but not always on what day. We account for things like ballet lessons and orthodontist and piano lessons for the week and then we write down the assignments. Every day of the week is mapped out. I also build in wiggle room. Not ever day (hardly any day) goes off perfectly as planned and we all need to learn to set priorities, how to 'dodge and weave through the week' as my son puts it.

 

Now, if he doesn't get his work done then he might have to address it on the weekend or in the evenings. I put it to HIM. "So, we didn't get to science today, what should we do?" Does he always have an answer? No. Does he usually? Yes. It is not always what I would have chosen, but he gets to make some of the decisions. It is something we are always talking about. He is part of the conversation.

 

I also think at this age you have to have buy in. Does she have any say in what the priorities are for the year? Did she have any say about what curriculum was chosen? If she hates a particular subject or book can she file a redress? Something are not negotiable in my house. Math, for example. If you don't like math I will work very hard to find a program you can deal with, but we will do math. But, if my son detested Latin, I might drop it for at least a year.

 

Now blah, blah, blah, I haven't taught an 8th grader. I am very nervous about 7th grade. I keep hearing it is the black hole of education, so we will see how it goes and who is left standing in June.

[tammieb]

This seems so often to be one of those "all or nothing" scenarios for homeschoolers. You've got the group that (I fall into) schedules every waking moment. Or there's the group that want to "enjoy time with my kids." As in everything in life, there's got to be a balance. And, unfortunately, we parents are the ones responsible for finding that balance. Not only for ourselves, but for our children as well.

 

We dealt with the SAME THING last year with both of mine! Ds is too smart for his own good! He'd be finished with his work WAAAAAAYYYYYYY before his sister and try to get her distracted (which doesn't take much effort!) in hopes that mom would give it up for the day and we'd move on to something else. Dd (12) would be steadily working on something and ANYTHING could happen (phone ring, washing machine go off, the cat would run through the kitchen!) and her mind was completely gone!

 

I tried to be the "dictator" mom who said you don't get to do anything else til your schoolwork is done in hopes that would help them focus. NOT! We'd be at the kitchen table til 5 and 6 pm. Way too long of a day for them AND ME!!

 

Dh gave me this idea and it seems to be working ---

 

Keep a schedule that is doable. If you look at your schedule and every day she's falling behind, you might need to tweek it a little til she gets on track. Put yourself in her position.... if you started out everyday knowing you still had work from the day before to complete, there would not be much motivation to even try.

 

Schedule an amount of time for each subject. Look realistically at what she typically does for daily lessons in each subject. Assign a time slot for each. We do 60 minutes each for Grammar and Math, 45 minutes each for History and Science, and 20 minutes for spelling. Subjects we do together (Bible, Latin, art, read alouds, etc) I don't set a time slot on. We do those after other lessons are completed. Have a timer available (we do lessons in the kitchen so I use the microwave clock timer). When she begins Grammar, set the timer for 60 mins (for example). At the end of 60 minutes, if she's not finished, she puts that away and it's homework for the night. Do this same routine for each subject.

 

I thought my hubby was crazy! I thought there's NO WAY that would work! It did!!! There's something about a kid and a "race." If her mind starts to wander, she sees the timer going and I can literally see the "oh! I've got to get busy look" on her face! Plus, it also gives a definitive start and stop time for each subject. As homeschoolers, so often our days "run together." If she sees she's accomplishing work in each subject in a specified amount of time, it'll give her the drive to do MORE in that same amount of time the next day.

 

Hope that helps! I feel your pain!!!! Every kid is different, so you've got to find what works for your family. The main thing, though, is to remember we are instilling in our children responsibility that will carry over into their families and careers when our homeschooling efforts are done. Think about the boss who won't think twice about letting an employee go who's constantly behind on their work. If our kids get into the mindset in school that it's okay to constantly be playing "catch up," they'll do it when they're older.

 

Hope this week is better for ya!

[Changed]

Huh, when you mentioned a mid-day nap I was wondering if she was ill. Sounds like she was.

 

My son and I sit down at some point on the weekend and make a schedule for the following week. I already know what we are going to cover, but not always on what day. We account for things like ballet lessons and orthodontist and piano lessons for the week and then we write down the assignments. Every day of the week is mapped out. I also build in wiggle room. Not ever day (hardly any day) goes off perfectly as planned and we all need to learn to set priorities, how to 'dodge and weave through the week' as my son puts it.

 

Now, if he doesn't get his work done then he might have to address it on the weekend or in the evenings. I put it to HIM. "So, we didn't get to science today, what should we do?" Does he always have an answer? No. Does he usually? Yes. It is not always what I would have chosen, but he gets to make some of the decisions. It is something we are always talking about. He is part of the conversation.

 

I also think at this age you have to have buy in. Does she have any say in what the priorities are for the year? Did she have any say about what curriculum was chosen? If she hates a particular subject or book can she file a redress? Something are not negotiable in my house. Math, for example. If you don't like math I will work very hard to find a program you can deal with, but we will do math. But, if my son detested Latin, I might drop it for at least a year.

 

Now blah, blah, blah, I haven't taught an 8th grader. I am very nervous about 7th grade. I keep hearing it is the black hole of education, so we will see how it goes and who is left standing in June.

She did have say in what we're doing this year. She chose geog over history, and she begged me to keep TT. I will try to do the scheduling of the week/lessons alongside her so she can have some say in the pace and order.

 

This seems so often to be one of those "all or nothing" scenarios for homeschoolers. You've got the group that (I fall into) schedules every waking moment. Or there's the group that want to "enjoy time with my kids." As in everything in life, there's got to be a balance. And, unfortunately, we parents are the ones responsible for finding that balance. Not only for ourselves, but for our children as well.

 

We dealt with the SAME THING last year with both of mine! Ds is too smart for his own good! He'd be finished with his work WAAAAAAYYYYYYY before his sister and try to get her distracted (which doesn't take much effort!) in hopes that mom would give it up for the day and we'd move on to something else. Dd (12) would be steadily working on something and ANYTHING could happen (phone ring, washing machine go off, the cat would run through the kitchen!) and her mind was completely gone!

 

I tried to be the "dictator" mom who said you don't get to do anything else til your schoolwork is done in hopes that would help them focus. NOT! We'd be at the kitchen table til 5 and 6 pm. Way too long of a day for them AND ME!!

 

Dh gave me this idea and it seems to be working ---

 

Keep a schedule that is doable. If you look at your schedule and every day she's falling behind, you might need to tweek it a little til she gets on track. Put yourself in her position.... if you started out everyday knowing you still had work from the day before to complete, there would not be much motivation to even try.

 

Schedule an amount of time for each subject. Look realistically at what she typically does for daily lessons in each subject. Assign a time slot for each. We do 60 minutes each for Grammar and Math, 45 minutes each for History and Science, and 20 minutes for spelling. Subjects we do together (Bible, Latin, art, read alouds, etc) I don't set a time slot on. We do those after other lessons are completed. Have a timer available (we do lessons in the kitchen so I use the microwave clock timer). When she begins Grammar, set the timer for 60 mins (for example). At the end of 60 minutes, if she's not finished, she puts that away and it's homework for the night. Do this same routine for each subject.

 

I thought my hubby was crazy! I thought there's NO WAY that would work! It did!!! There's something about a kid and a "race." If her mind starts to wander, she sees the timer going and I can literally see the "oh! I've got to get busy look" on her face! Plus, it also gives a definitive start and stop time for each subject. As homeschoolers, so often our days "run together." If she sees she's accomplishing work in each subject in a specified amount of time, it'll give her the drive to do MORE in that same amount of time the next day.

 

Hope that helps! I feel your pain!!!! Every kid is different, so you've got to find what works for your family. The main thing, though, is to remember we are instilling in our children responsibility that will carry over into their families and careers when our homeschooling efforts are done. Think about the boss who won't think twice about letting an employee go who's constantly behind on their work. If our kids get into the mindset in school that it's okay to constantly be playing "catch up," they'll do it when they're older.

 

Hope this week is better for ya!

Great advice! I will try the timer and see if it helps to keep her on task.