Is Algebra necessary?

[Abbeygurl4]

Interesting article. I also heard an interview on NPR with Diane Rehm.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/opinion/sunday/is-algebra-necessary.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

[Munchkins_mama]

That is a question that my 5th grader would love to have answered. hahaha!

[Mrs Mungo]

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showthread.php?t=411799

 

:)

 

My answer? Go here:

http://www.gocomics.com/foxtrot/2009/01/25/

 

People use Algebra all the time, whether they realize it or not. NOT teaching Algebra will limit a student's choices severely.

[Abbeygurl4]

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showthread.php?t=411799

 

:)

 

My answer? Go here:

http://www.gocomics.com/foxtrot/2009/01/25/

 

People use Algebra all the time, whether they realize it or not. NOT teaching Algebra will limit a student's choices severely.

 

I should have known one of you brainy moms already posted this :)

 

I was listening to NPR in my car and I wanted to see what the hive thought but it's too hard to search the forums on my iPhone.

[Munchkins_mama]

That is a question that my 5th grader would love to have answered. hahaha!

 

On a serious level, I use higher math all the time in my daily life. :) She wants to be a hair stylist and I keep telling her she needs math and science to make it happen.

[ChristyB in TN]

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showthread.php?t=411799

 

:)

 

My answer? Go here:

http://www.gocomics.com/foxtrot/2009/01/25/

 

People use Algebra all the time, whether they realize it or not. NOT teaching Algebra will limit a student's choices severely.

 

This. Absolutely. NOT knowing algebra presents limitations.

[Kalypso]

This. Absolutely. NOT knowing algebra presents limitations.

 

This is exectly what I thought. Why in the world would anyone want to be limited at such a young age?

[StephanieZ]

Begin rant.

 

I really, truly, don't understand JUST HOW BAD most math education must be. It is astonishing and just depressing.

 

I don't understand what you'd do for math if you didn't teach algebra. I don't understand how more than maybe 5-10% of the US population could be so math-unfunctional as to not be able to readily learn algebra.

 

My kids have all been ready for algebra well before high school age. Given that they are mathy, bright kids with a mathy mom/teacher, I can accept that most kids might not be ready until high school age. But, assuming the child has achieved a strong basic math background before high school, can't they at least plan to teach a well prepared high schooler algebra!?!?

 

What on earth are they teaching kids these days if they don't have time and mental effort left for algebra?

 

End rant.

[PinkInTheBlue]

What out further than Algebra I? Is Algebra II and Calculus necessary? For non-mathy student this has turned into outrageous torture in my house. I'm willing to be wrong if you can clarify. :)

[Mrs Mungo]

What out further than Algebra I? Is Algebra II and Calculus necessary? For non-mathy student this has turned into outrageous torture in my house. I'm willing to be wrong if you can clarify. :)

 

I don't think that *every* student needs Trig, if that's what you're asking. I'm going to be lucky to drag my completely non-mathy eldest through Teaching Textbook's Pre-Calc, which is as good as no math at all, according to some here. :tongue_smilie:

[vonfirmath]

What on earth are they teaching kids these days if they don't have time and mental effort left for algebra?

 

End rant.

 

My answer is calculators. If you get used to letting the calculator do the work, then you aren't really confident yourself and you don't know how to do the same type of problem when some of the numbers are replaced by letters (and thus can't be done by calculator)

[Ellie]

No, as long as good, solid arithmetic is taught. Yes, I know that technically, when you're trying to figure out how much wallpaper you need for the kitchen, or how long to cut the lumber to build the chair, is "algebra," but good, basic arithmetic teaches those things without having to have a long string of letters and numbers and and parenthesis and doing on one side of the equation what you're doing on the other.

 

I won't debate this, either. Y'all beat me up on the high school forum a couple of weeks ago on this topic; I emerged bruised and battered but with my mind unchanged. Everything I *needed* to know to function well as an adult in society I learned by the end of 9th grade (which was business math for me).

 

:auto:

[Laurie4b]

No, algebra is not necessary for many people and the inability to pass it is an enormous obstacle for a signficant number of kids.

 

I took calculus in high school. One of my kids got through Calc III and Differential Equations before going off to college. (No, I did not teach those!) I see the value of higher math.

 

But I've got a nephew that struggled and struggled and struggled to pass algebra. I worked in the school system and mental health system with many kids like him. Passing algebra requires some types of higher level abstract thinking skills that some kids do not have (while they may have other types of intellectual skills). Anything beyond the most basic algebra (which is included in general math) is not needed for functioning for a huge number of adults. I enjoyed algebra, but I've not used any except the most basic (the kind you get in general math) since I stopped taking math courses.

 

On the other hand, a high school diploma IS required for many jobs. By requiring kids to pass algebra to get a high school diploma, you are limiting THEIR futures, for no reason, as the article points out. For instance, some kids with nonverbal learning disabilities canNOT do higher math. They can have very high verbal intelligence. Why should they be held back in life by a deficit in an academic area that they aren't going to use in life? Why should we be denied their gifts as a society because of an arbitrary requirement to a high school diploma?

 

Absolutely, for kids who can do it, algebra should be taught so as not to limit their options. But algebra should not be required, so as not to limit the options of other kids. A kid limited by not taking algebra (who could have) may have a more circuitous route to what they want in life. They can always go back and take it later. A kid limited because he cannot pass it and therefore cannot get out of high school faces a much stronger limitation and one that is very hard to overcome.

 

Passing a consumer math course or test, imo, would be a better requirement for all graduating high school students.

 

ETA: I wrote this before reading other responses. I am really saddened by them. Fellow homeschoolers, not everyone is as blessed neurologically as you and your kids. There are truly neurological differences--not laziness, not bad teaching, not calculators--that keep algebra out of reach for some kids. That doesn't mean that they are stupid. It doesn't mean that they don't have other kinds of intelligence. It doesn't mean they can't succeed in life and be real contributors to our society. But those with greater obstacles to overcome don't deserve derision, whether intentional or not. I know that comes from not knowing anyone like that and assuming others have the same neurological equipment you do, but still... I feel the same way when I read spelling threads about how people assume people who can't spell are lazy, stupid, careless, etc. when they may have worked harder than you've ever had to, are brilliant, etc. but have a learning disability. I've known, loved, and taught many of these kids.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Laurie4b

[dereksurfs]

Yes, I really think they do need it. IMO, the article is very short sighted. There are far too many college courses which require Algebra and above as prerequistes. How will a 10-14+ y/o ever know what courses or fields they may discover they are interested in while in college or even a trade school? Why limit a young person's potential before they are old enough to see the value in secondary mathematics for themselves? Many colleges and universities require this anyway prior to entry. I don't see this changing at all. So the question is really a moot point for most young people wanting the further their education beyond HS. In fact I think these 'minimum' requirements will only increase over the next several decades. I realize not everyone will go to college or a technical training school or somewhere they are required to *use* secondary math. But I don't think that is a good enough reason to do the absolute minimum one can get away with while in school.

[Laurie4b]

Begin rant.

 

I really, truly, don't understand JUST HOW BAD most math education must be. It is astonishing and just depressing.

 

I don't understand what you'd do for math if you didn't teach algebra. I don't understand how more than maybe 5-10% of the US population could be so math-unfunctional as to not be able to readily learn algebra.

 

My kids have all been ready for algebra well before high school age. Given that they are mathy, bright kids with a mathy mom/teacher, I can accept that most kids might not be ready until high school age. But, assuming the child has achieved a strong basic math background before high school, can't they at least plan to teach a well prepared high schooler algebra!?!?

 

What on earth are they teaching kids these days if they don't have time and mental effort left for algebra?

 

End rant.

 

Some kids are limited by the wiring they were born with, not by poor teaching. Though it is a minority who cannot do abstract math, it is not an insignificant number.

[Parrothead]

No, as long as good, solid arithmetic is taught. Yes, I know that technically, when you're trying to figure out how much wallpaper you need for the kitchen, or how long to cut the lumber to build the chair, is "algebra," but good, basic arithmetic teaches those things without having to have a long string of letters and numbers and and parenthesis and doing on one side of the equation what you're doing on the other.

 

I won't debate this, either. Y'all beat me up on the high school forum a couple of weeks ago on this topic; I emerged bruised and battered but with my mind unchanged. Everything I *needed* to know to function well as an adult in society I learned by the end of 9th grade (which was business math for me).

 

:auto:

Fortunately for us Ellie, 9th grade math was much more rigorous then than 9th grade math today. Carp like Everyday Math and the like have really messed up today's math students.

 

Then you add trying to do algebra 1 with a basis of math being weird math (EM and the like) it isn't all that mind boggling as to why students are failing out of school unable to do math.

[Kathryn]

I use my algebra, but I don't think I use anything I learned beyond that. I do think algebra is helpful for an adult to have learned.

[jessicalb]

I use math in computer programming, sewing, cooking, etc. I really enjoy math. I find it useful. I think it's sad that it's considered something that can be just dropped if it doesn't have an immediate use.

 

How truly useful is it for my son to have a more thorough grounding in world and US history than any adult I know (homeschooling parents not included)? How practically applicable will he find his knowledge of the history of inventions, art, and music? When will he have a burning need to discuss philosophy? What actual practical use could he have for learning Latin and Greek roots? All of those things are good for developing well rounded people and going farther in academics, but none are truly useful and applicable today, to simply surviving real life.

 

If I was doing purely practical education, I'd teach him formulas and how to use a calculator, make sure he knows how to deal with bills and insurance and interest rates, get him into a co-op to learn to fix cars, and send him off in life at 14. He could certainly work and live a life with that level of knowledge. I just don't want that to be his baseline. I'd like him to start life at 19 or even older with a solid foundation that is valuable simply because education is valuable, and that could send him anywhere he wants to go.