Lowering cholesterol with diet

[Night Elf]

Would a diabetic diet lower cholesterol? If it does, what numbers does it target?

 

I posted recently about my lipid panel but I finally got around to comparing my June numbers to my last December numbers.

 

Total cholesterol went up from 158 to 243

HDL went up from 31 to 41

LDL went up from 89 to 173

Triglycerides went down from 188 to 148

 

Total cholesterol and LDL numbers increased when they shouldn't have. :( I've been on Weight Watchers since the end of Sept. so I've been eating more fiber and less fat, but still not making the best food choices. I've lost 36 lbs. and I'm officially in my healthy weight range though.

 

In early May, I stopped taking my 'statin med. I continued taking fish oil, niacin, extra B vitamin, and an aspirin.

 

This labwork was ordered as part of a routine workup by my psychiatrist because of other meds I'm on. My general physician hasn't seen the results and likely won't unless I bring it to her attention. Before I contact her, I want to figure out how to change my diet to see if it will help. My doctor will just want me to go back on the statin.

 

My blood glucose number stays between 105 and 120, so my mom wants me to adopt a diabetic diet to reverse prediabetes. So would it also work on lowering the cholesterol?

[Momof3littles]

Low carbers typically have low triglycerides (under 100 if they aren't cheating). They also lower their subparticle # for VLDL, which is the most dense and sticky form of LDL. Look into the issue of subparticles and pattern A and pattern B.

 

Many low carbers see a small rise in LDL or a drop, but their overall *pattern* becomes better. They tend to have fluffier, less dense, less sticky LDL (which is what you want) vs. the sticker, denser forms of LDL.

 

Read Dr. Eades and Gary Taubes. This is why the "reduce fat" to cut cholesterol has not really been the best advice, IMO. Some people drop their overall cholesterol # but end up with less desirable outcomes.

 

Get the Taubes book and I think you'll understand.

 

If you want a primer on it, read his NYT piece from years ago called "What if it is All a Big Fat Lie?" (he has refined his argument since then, but it will give you some idea of what his books are about). His more recent piece "Is Sugar Toxic?" (also available on the NYT website) discusses cholesterol and sugar.

 

eta: are you familiar with the term metabolic syndrome? Look into the connection between insulin resistance, high cholesterol, and diabetes/prediabetes/elevated blood sugars and metabolic syndrome. Seriously, please consider reading Taubes :)

[Ellie]

Four years ago my cholesterol was over 300.

 

Today it is 187. I don't have the break-down in front of me, but my doctor was impressed.

 

Atkins.

[Lisa in Jax]

Would a diabetic diet lower cholesterol? If it does, what numbers does it target?

 

I posted recently about my lipid panel but I finally got around to comparing my June numbers to my last December numbers.

 

Total cholesterol went up from 158 to 243

HDL went up from 31 to 41

LDL went up from 89 to 173

Triglycerides went down from 188 to 148

 

Total cholesterol and LDL numbers increased when they shouldn't have. :( I've been on Weight Watchers since the end of Sept. so I've been eating more fiber and less fat, but still not making the best food choices. I've lost 36 lbs. and I'm officially in my healthy weight range though.

 

In early May, I stopped taking my 'statin med. I continued taking fish oil, niacin, extra B vitamin, and an aspirin.

 

This labwork was ordered as part of a routine workup by my psychiatrist because of other meds I'm on. My general physician hasn't seen the results and likely won't unless I bring it to her attention. Before I contact her, I want to figure out how to change my diet to see if it will help. My doctor will just want me to go back on the statin.

 

My blood glucose number stays between 105 and 120, so my mom wants me to adopt a diabetic diet to reverse prediabetes. So would it also work on lowering the cholesterol?

 

There's a supplement called Glucomannan that helps with cholesterol, blood sugar regulation and weight loss. It's a fiber that makes you feel full, and also seems to "grab" some of the cholesterol and help you get rid of it.

 

It'd be best to clear it with a pharmacist or doctor to be sure it can be taken with your meds, but it might be the thing that helps you lose weight and drop your cholesterol.

 

http://www.nutritionexpress.com/article+index/diet+weight+loss/glucomannan+for+dieting/showarticle.aspx?id=296

 

HIH,

 

Lisa

[Cinder]

For someone like dh an Atkins type diet didn't lower his cholesterol. I think his has a genetic component though because it was about the same when he was on meds as it has been now that he's off meds. The biggie was that his trigs went way way down. Way down. But he's sticking to the low-carb because it keeps his blood sugars stable.

[Momof3littles]

For someone like dh an Atkins type diet didn't lower his cholesterol. I think his has a genetic component though because it was about the same when he was on meds as it has been now that he's off meds. The biggie was that his trigs went way way down. Way down. But he's sticking to the low-carb because it keeps his blood sugars stable.

Did he have subparticles broken out, like VLDL? Even if it doesn't lower overall #s, for many people it decreases their VLDL (typically estimated on most tests vs. directly measured, and they estimate it using triglyceride numbers. So if he has low tris, his VLDL would be estimated to be low). VLDL is the worst form of LDL, thought by many to be more concerning than "fluffier" forms of LDL. My point is that most "total #" measurements, or even just a straight LDL/HDL breakdown without further differentiation doesn't always tell the full story.

 

Interestingly, some people like Dr. Eades even think LDL if your tris are very low (under 100 as is typical in a LCer), the Friedewald equation may not be accurate. THe Friedewald equation is used to estimate LDL...on most lab tests, LDL is actually *not* directly measured. It is calculated using a formula, and there is some thought that the formula may not hold up accurately in someone with low tris. Google Iranian equation and Friedewald equation. I'll see if I can find Dr. Eades' post on the topic.

 

Study on the "Iranian equation" vs. Friedewald:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18426324

 

More on Friedewald with lower than average triglycerides:

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/weight-loss/low-carbohydrate-diets-increase-ldl-debunking-the-myth/

 

This is a bit of a summary of some of the things Eades and Taubes discuss...this is kind of an oversimplification but a good starting point if these ideas are new to you:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35058896/ns/health-heart_health/t/bad-cholesterol-its-not-what-you-think/#.T-2oDnBIggE

Edited June 29, 2012 by Momof3littles

[Cinder]

Did he have subparticles broken out, like VLDL?

 

I'm not sure--I'll ask him about that. Thanks for the info!

[JFSinIL]

It may depend (how is that for an answer!) A family friend has high cholesterol in her family no matter what they do, diet-wise. Her middle dd, as a teen, had bad numbers and the doctor sat them down to say "She has to stop the high-fat, fast-food, red meat diet!" At this the mom and dd started laughing - the teen was a scrawny thing who had been a dedicated vegan for years! She did not eat any of the foods the doctor told her to avoid!

 

She needed to be on medication to control her cholesterol. Her mom is on it, too. Sometimes diet alone is not enough. If you try controlling it with diet, do so knowing you may still need medication. You won't know until you try.

[ktgrok]

To me those numbers are much better! Raising HDL and lowering trigs are more important than the LDL number. Also, LDL is a symptom, not a cause, of heart issues. LDL goes to the site of inflamattion to "band aid" it. If you get rid of the inflammation you will lower your LDL.

 

Either way, please please please please listen to the story on the Diane Rehm show about statins, particularly in women. They are NOT proven to help in women. And in fact, in women, LDL is not truly a marker of heart disease anyway!!!! The woman in the interview is a researcher at a major University (forget which), not some quack. She goes over all the numbers in the show. http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-06-12/new-cholesterol-research-and-heart-disease-prevention

 

(you can read the transcript if you don't want to listen)

[Night Elf]

Get the Taubes book and I think you'll understand.

 

I've got it in my amazon cart but wondered if I wanted a diabetes book as well. There is a series called 'Tell Me What To Eat' and they have one for diabetes.

 

I listened to Taubes being interviewed under the same title as the article. Some of it is interesting but there really is so much that goes over my head. I guess you could consider me an average citizen, I believe. Would you say the average citizen doesn't really understand how to eat healthy? The main problem I always encounter is that there is simply too much information. And what works for Betty Sue didn't work for Mary Jane, but Bobbi Lee did something entirely different and swears if everyone ate the way she did they would all be healthy. And then I give up. I need to adopt the 'everyone is right' attitude and just start trying various things. But right now, my two biggest concerns are staying off the statins and lowering my blood glucose level. I was just hoping that one way of eating would kill both birds with one stone.

 

I'm not eating as horribly as I did prior to WW and I've lost weight and I feel good. So I've got that going for me. I just need to take it a step farther but I don't know which way to step. I am thinking of making an appt. with my doctor but I feel she's no more than one opinion just like all these other opinions I read.

[Momof3littles]

The thing with Taubes is he gets at why there is so much conflicting advice. The whole premise is flawed in terms of our understanding of cholesterol, insulin, diet, etc. He dissects why that is.

 

His stuff is easier to understand if you start slowly. Try the NYT pieces if you haven't.

 

I would then try for his book Why We Get Fat. Good Calories, Bad Calories is fantastic but very science-heavy, and if you find that intimidating, Why We Get Fat is probably a better start from what I've heard.

 

I would start at how we got to the current recommendations. That's why you see different opinions on what works and what doesn't. I promise, Taubes addresses this. I think in the long run it will save you a lot of headaches trying to interpret the conflicting advice out there.

 

:grouphug:

[Night Elf]

Did he have subparticles broken out, like VLDL? Even if it doesn't lower overall #s, for many people it decreases their VLDL (typically estimated on most tests vs. directly measured, and they estimate it using triglyceride numbers. So if he has low tris, his VLDL would be estimated to be low). VLDL is the worst form of LDL, thought by many to be more concerning than "fluffier" forms of LDL. My point is that most "total #" measurements, or even just a straight LDL/HDL breakdown without further differentiation doesn't always tell the full story.

 

Oh.my.word. This post isn't directed at me, but you might as well be speaking in a foreign language. Well wait, you're talking in my language but I'm not translating it well. :tongue_smilie:

 

My stepdad has diabetes among a host of other conditions. I'm going to call my mom and see if she can explain some of this stuff to me since she talks to all kinds of doctors for my stepdad.

[Momof3littles]

Oh.my.word. This post isn't directed at me, but you might as well be speaking in a foreign language. Well wait, you're talking in my language but I'm not translating it well. :tongue_smilie:

 

My stepdad has diabetes among a host of other conditions. I'm going to call my mom and see if she can explain some of this stuff to me since she talks to all kinds of doctors for my stepdad.

 

Start slowly. Did you read the Men's Health/MSNBC article I linked to? Basically LDL isn't all created equal. SOme forms are thought to be much more detrimental. But standard lab tests don't break it down in most cases. They just give you a number, which by the way is calculated in most cases and not even directly measured.

 

Basically LDL (aka the "bad" cholesterol) has different sub-types. SOme are stickier and more dense (and really bad!). Some are fluffier, less dense, less sticky and thought to be less problematic. People with high blood sugar, high tris, etc. as a whole would tend to have the less desirable, more dangerous pattern of LDL. Some people have higher LDL, but they have low triglycerides, and their LDL is probably more neutral/less "bad"-more bouyant, doesn't stick as much. Right now most standard lab tests don't break that down accurately. If you have high tris, the overall pattern *tends* to be that there is stickier, denser LDL, which isn't good.

 

People who eat more sat fat and lower carb tend to have the less dense, fluffier subtype of LDL. SO their "bad" perhaps isn't as "bad" as was once thought.

 

Add in the issues of cholesterol in women, especially post menopausal women without other serious risk factors, and whether that is even really all that abnormal or indicative of heart disease in the first place.

 

Start slowly :) In the end, I think you'll find it saves you time.

 

The insulin/diabetes concerns tie in with heart disease and metabolic syndrome. Address the insulin-related concerns and many people have success with other issues related to metabolic syndrome.

[Night Elf]

It may depend (how is that for an answer!) A family friend has high cholesterol in her family no matter what they do, diet-wise. Her middle dd, as a teen, had bad numbers and the doctor sat them down to say "She has to stop the high-fat, fast-food, red meat diet!" At this the mom and dd started laughing - the teen was a scrawny thing who had been a dedicated vegan for years! She did not eat any of the foods the doctor told her to avoid!

 

She needed to be on medication to control her cholesterol. Her mom is on it, too. Sometimes diet alone is not enough. If you try controlling it with diet, do so knowing you may still need medication. You won't know until you try.

 

Thanks. I don't eat any of those things either. I do eat potatoes and bread the most I guess. I'm not a big meat eater at all. I would guess I eat 4 oz. of chicken a week and 1 oz. of 96%/4% lean ground beef. I don't like the pork chops DH makes. And that is pretty much our regular meats we cook each week. I need to eat more fish but I'm terribly afraid to cook it. I either overcook it and the consistency is hard rubber or I undercook it which might make me sick. But I would eat more of it if I could cook it. :)

 

Atkins has never appealed to me because I understand it to be a heavy protein diet and eating too much meat absolutely grosses me out. If it's the only way to lower cholesterol, I am in serious trouble.

[Momof3littles]

Thanks. I don't eat any of those things either. I do eat potatoes and bread the most I guess. I'm not a big meat eater at all. I would guess I eat 4 oz. of chicken a week and 1 oz. of 96%/4% lean ground beef. I don't like the pork chops DH makes. And that is pretty much our regular meats we cook each week. I need to eat more fish but I'm terribly afraid to cook it. I either overcook it and the consistency is hard rubber or I undercook it which might make me sick. But I would eat more of it if I could cook it. :)

 

Atkins has never appealed to me because I understand it to be a heavy protein diet and eating too much meat absolutely grosses me out. If it's the only way to lower cholesterol, I am in serious trouble.

 

Do you like eggs?

 

I am a former vegetarian (8 years of it). When I got diagnosed with PCOS and figured out I'm prone to insulin resistance, I started eating this way. I got over my aversions. I prefer it to running into metabolic syndrome down the road (strong family history of it).

[Night Elf]

Some people have higher LDL, but they have low triglycerides, and their LDL is probably more neutral/less "bad"-more bouyant, doesn't stick as much. Right now most standard lab tests don't break that down accurately. If you have high tris, the overall pattern *tends* to be that there is stickier, denser LDL, which isn't good.

 

In 6 months, my tris went down from 188 to 148, but my LDL went up from 89 to 173. So do you think since my tris went down that my numbers aren't all that bad? What about the total cholesterol number? I understand it should be under 200 but mine went from 158 to 243. I don't like that.

[Momof3littles]

In 6 months, my tris went down from 188 to 148, but my LDL went up from 89 to 173. So do you think since my tris went down that my numbers aren't all that bad? What about the total cholesterol number? I understand it should be under 200 but mine went from 158 to 243. I don't like that.

I prefer tris for my family (not trying to give you medical advice) to be under 100.

 

If you are actively losing weight, some people find their LDL does increase as they are actively losing weight. I have no idea, as I don't LC for weight loss (have always had a normal BMI but LC because of PCOS/insulin resistance/strong family history of metabolic syndrome type of issues).

 

eta: but you are having some blood sugar concerns too, no? In that case, I'd be looking at controlling your insulin response, which brings us back to whether you'd consider LCing or reading Taubes at least ;)

[Momof3littles]

Have you looked into metabolic syndrome? IMO many people prone to that type of issue (very common, fwiw) can end up chasing a whole bunch of separate issues, or they can address insulin response and probably resolve or control a lot of them by getting to the root of the problem. It may take time to get there, but I think it is worth the investment to really read up on it and understand how it fits together, vs. looking at all of your individual pieces (elevated blood sugar, triglycerides, initially low HDL, elevated total cholesterol). In my mind, this is what Taubes does beautifully-bringing these pieces together and explaining why it comes back to insulin.

[Night Elf]

Well, I've been sitting here reading.

 

First, I did read up on metabolic syndrome but I seem to be doing everything recommended except I should increase my exercise. I read there is no particular overall treatment but that the individual components are treated. I've been on all the meds they recommend too, except I just learned that the Niacin I'm taking is probably not doing anything. I need to take regular niacin but it causes extreme discomfort with that dumb flushing. The only thing I read that counteracts is a low dose aspirin and I already take that, so it obviously didn't do anything. I'm also on a beta-blocker called Propranalol and I was on a blood glucose medicine called Metformin. I just went off the Metformin.

 

This is all too much to take in. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. :tongue_smilie:

[Momof3littles]

Well, I've been sitting here reading.

 

First, I did read up on metabolic syndrome but I seem to be doing everything recommended except I should increase my exercise. I read there is no particular overall treatment but that the individual components are treated. I've been on all the meds they recommend too, except I just learned that the Niacin I'm taking is probably not doing anything. I need to take regular niacin but it causes extreme discomfort with that dumb flushing. The only thing I read that counteracts is a low dose aspirin and I already take that, so it obviously didn't do anything. I'm also on a beta-blocker called Propranalol and I was on a blood glucose medicine called Metformin. I just went off the Metformin.

 

This is all too much to take in. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. :tongue_smilie:

I know the feeling. It gets better.

 

What I'm saying is Taubes' book will likely be able to tie all of the diagnoses you are dealing with together. Insulin is a major problem in all of them. You might want to start there and see if the pieces start to fall into place as you read. I know it feels overwhelming, but you may be able to get at the root of the whole thing. It takes time to get armed with info, but it may save you time and energy for the long-haul.

[HiddenJewel]

Low adrenals will trigger increased cholesterol. If that is the root, balance the adrenals, the cholesterol will come into line.