Attachment concerns in newly adopted daughter

[Denisemomof4]

Again, kiddo was not adopted, but he "worked a room". At a work-related big dinner out, he would circle, greeting and checking everyone out. I recall predicting whose lap he'd end up on, as at 2, he always picked the matronly lady with the biggest bazoombas. Later, he'd pick whoever seemed pleasantly inclined who was eating what he'd like to try. Next think you knew, he was cozied up to man who looks rather like my brother, sharing his dinner.

 

I think he is a friendly but fairly typical kid now. He was just a very social toddler. Some people thought it "scary", and acted as if I had to quash this to keep him from being kidnapped, but he was always with us, and I wasn't worried. Other people thought it terribly charming.

 

I'm so glad I didn't think to agonize over this .... and I hope your friend just finds her to be an especially loving child.

 

There is a HUUUUUGE difference between an adopted toddler doing this versus a bio kid. Ds20 was very charming and LOVED to talk to people as a little boy. He was charming, funny, sweet, extremely wise. People would meet him and fall in love with him.

 

Dd9, my RAD and only adopted, would do the same.

 

The difference? Ds20 knew who mommy and daddy were. He loved them and knew he was going home with them. Dd9 was mommy shopping and looking for her next home. She had RAD and no attachment to the family who loved her, doted on her, played with her, fed her, kept her safe, etc. Etc. Attachment ISSUES are dangerous enough to warrant cocooning right away.

 

It is hard to understand unless you have either had done a lot of study on the subject OR have first hand experience with it.

 

It is very common for parents to believe their bio kids had similar issues, but in the adoption community we know differently. The common phrase heard is that it is the frequency and intensity which sets AD kids apart.

[Denisemomof4]

I'll pop back in later to read the rest of the thread and add my 1,000 responses. This is one area I REFUSE to stay quiet about. I don't quite seem to be a broken record yet.

 

I just hope your friend realizes something is off so she can start working with her dd NOW. I fully believe that had I known what was going on when dd was handed over to me, I could have started my work with her right away. I believe we would be in a much better place than we are now, and certainly wouldn't have had to travel such a difficult road.

[msjones]

I'll pop back in later to read the rest of the thread and add my 1,000 responses. This is one area I REFUSE to stay quiet about. I don't quite seem to be a broken record yet.

 

I just hope your friend realizes something is off so she can start working with her dd NOW. I fully believe that had I known what was going on when dd was handed over to me, I could have started my work with her right away. I believe we would be in a much better place than we are now, and certainly wouldn't have had to travel such a difficult road.

 

Denise,

I'm eager to say something to her, now that I've read these replies. I'll be seeing her tomorrow. Can you suggest some words I might use? I really know so little about this, and I'm reluctant to just say "I have a feeling that something is wrong with your daughter" just based on my observations. If I were her, I might just blow off a remark like that.

I had assumed that she must have been trained regarding these types of issues, but based on what you said, I could be wrong. I was hoping (and still am, really) that there's some kind of intervention going on at home that I don't know about. But, in public, the little girl is actively, busily going from person to person (adults and children), hugging, holding hands, sitting in laps, getting snacks and candy, and playing with all the kids. And like I said previously, this has been encouraged and enjoyed by the many families who have waited so long to meet her.

Any suggestions you have would be appreciated.

msjones

[NotSoObvious]

FWIW, I don't have time to read the other posts, but we got our girls when they were 4 and one of them was just like this.

She's perfectly fine now and it came with a good therapist and a few years of her learning about love and stability.

Attachment issues are a concern in any adoption. They are fairly normal. RAD is extreme and just because a child has attachment issues does not mean she is going to be x, y, and z. It just means they haven't had a chance to be loved yet!

[Denisemomof4]

if you were the mom, and someone noticed something of concern, would you want them to mention it to you? how would you want them to do that?

 

could you try,

"Mary", i am so glad that you got to adopt "Naomi". with homeschooling, i am a member of a board where many people have adopted kids, and one of the topics that comes up again and again is some of the attachment issues adopted kids may have. i was struck with how many of the women wish someone had told them right at the beginning that there were things they could do that would help make the transition easier for the adopted child, and for the family too. does the agency you used help you with things like that?

 

and then you could mention one of the signs that there may be helpful things the adoptive parents can be doing is the indiscriminate affection. and/or suggest she come to the wtm boards and do a search on older adoptions.

 

i think there is a chance for you to offer a real opportunity to this little girl and her new family.... it will be awkward, but it could save them all an awful lot of heartache.

 

:grouphug:

ann

 

I love this. I know I said that I don't think you should say anything, but honestly....... I am NOT one to be silent about adoption or attachment issues/AD/RAD!!! I am just so tired and I did not give my correct answer bevore. I definitely think something should be said either to her or her friend. I had already parented three bio kids and knew my love would be more than enough for any adopted child. I can't believe how naieve/ignorant I was. I did NOT know what to look for as warning signs, and your friend's dd definitely has some.

 

It sounds like this child is a fairly new adoption? If she has attachment issues, or worse, more behaviors will come out once the honeymoon phase is over. Adjustment in the home is said to take as long as the child was in an institution/foster care. So this child is three, so adjustment and healing may take three years, give or take, for her.

 

I do feel very bad for your friends and their dd. You can read all over the internet, as well as read in books, that the way they are handling their dd on public is not good for her or anyone else. And it could be feeding into her and making her issues worse.

 

If you do speak to the woman directly, do not be surprised if she is offended you said anything at all. I have seen some troubling behaviors in adopted kids of friends. If any sort of attachment issue is brought up, the parent may be insulted, as if their parenting was being called into question or worse, was the cause of the "problem.".

 

I tried to dig some stuff up for you on google but I just am too fried to find anything that your friend may be interested in reading. If she does want to, though, there is no shortage of info on the web. She can start there.

 

To the pp who's baby spent several months in the hospital, yes, that may have caused a disruption in the bonding process. One of my online attachment support groups did have a bio kid with severe RAD. This is where I learned that separation from mom and painful medical procedures can cause attachment issues or full blown RAD. I am seeing more references to this now than when I first started my research. There is even a mom on this board in this predicament. While it is a scary thing to face, you would be doing yourself, your child, andyour entire family a hige favor to look into this now. You will need to learn new ways to parent and bond with your child, learn how to handle difficult behaviors, learn new techniques to help the child IF he does have attachment issues.

 

I feel that I am leaving something out. Since I can barely make sense to even myself right now, I will leave this alone for now. :001_smile:

[Haiku]

Adjustment in the home is said to take as long as the child was in an institution/foster care.

 

That's interesting. Our dd has been with us for six years last month. She was in an orphanage for six years. She has started to calm down some in the last few months. I wasn't sure whether it was because she was grounded for four months, is approaching 18, or what. Maybe it's what you mentioned. Or a combination.

 

Tara

[JessReplanted]

My kids are extremely friendly. Maybe it is just the child's personality. At 3 years old, either of my girls would have hugged almost anybody.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Adjustment in the home is said to take as long as the child was in an institution/foster care.

 

Such a scary idea to those of us just a year into it. Light at the end of the tunnel, maybe, but soooooooooo far off.....

[nono]

I would add that a professional evaluation by someone who's truly versed in RAD is essential, if one can find someone qualified.

 

I was very lucky that here hanging off the end of the country there was someone fairly well-versed in attachment disorders within a reasonable driving distance. It really helped counteract all the "Don't worry, she's just a kid" reassurances that well-meaning, ill-informed adults threw my way. In case anyone is wondering, my dd didn't suffer* from RAD. She actually suffered* from a variant, which is call anxious attachment. My ds had issues that were unrelated to adoption but just his general personality in conflict with mine. So it isn't like this therapist just presumed RAD onto my children. Not at all.

 

*And, yes, the child suffered. The fairytale that a child is thrilled to have their entire world shattered without a vote needs to end. Children are not pieces of furniture that we can rearrange at will to suit our needs. They are not hard drives that we can wipe clean and rewrite over. We need to put the emotional needs of the child in transition first. We, as the adults, with much more cognition, need to help lead these children to a place of love, safety, appropriate behavior and understanding of their circumstances. Hoping that it'll all work out when there's some warning signs? Not a gamble I'd be willing to take.

[Denisemomof4]

For those who aren't lucky enough to have qualified local help, there are many therapist options where they therapist will travel to the home (Walt Buenning for one......several thousands$) and there are phone consultations, Heather Forbes is one of many. There are also groups you can join for group counseling handled through tlte conference calls. These are cheaper. I have had two phone therapists and two tele conference (consciously Parenty Project) and they helped FAR more than the local "attachment" therapist/social worker did. Local was a TOTAL waste of time and money.

 

My online support groups were my biggest help and proved invaluable early on.

[Lady Florida.]

 

I may be able to raise my concerns to another friend who does know her well enough to approach her. I'll think about it.

 

I don't know if you've already spoken to her, but I think this is a good option. Someone needs to talk to her, and if you don't know her well enough to feel comfortable, then perhaps you can convince a closer friend to do it.

[bethben]

 

Adjustment in the home is said to take as long as the child was in an institution/foster care.

 

I saw this to be true also. I mistakenly thought I could run a co-op that ran all day and kept me away from dd for most of the day. It did NOT work. She obviously needed me to be around with her for most of her waking hours. Every time I go would away for a day and leave her with someone other than daddy (some things just can't be avoided), I know I would "pay" for it the next day with having to re-establish my mommyhood. We passed the 2 1/2 year mark this past spring and I can say that things have gotten MUCH better in our home (it also helped that the co-op ended). It was around the 2 1/2 year mark that we politely asked her to not go downstairs. She turned around and said, "yes mommy" which shocked us to no end because usually we got some attitude laced sassy remark. It has taken awhile.

 

Beth

Edited June 9, 2012 by bethben

[EmilyK]

Tara, Please advise me on this. I just have no clue how to keep this from happening. I think homeschooling will help (esp the one child). But what about in certain groups of people? Not going just isn't an option.

 

Earlier, after replying, I thought that one thing that may be playing into it is that I encourage us to walk around and "mingle." This is really something encouraged and something I used to not do much. But maybe if I stayed standing near our seats. Then people are leaning over our seats or the seats in front of us to hug or handshake. I will also find it easier to reign kids in that way. And I will have an extra second to ask people to please not pick them (esp the littlest) up. Seems like it would just naturally put a little more barrier to some of the behaviors. Additionally, if someone was struggling, having them sit at my feet or even just in their seat would make a difference, helping them not have those experiences or use that "power."

 

But seriously, any other ideas are greatly appreciated. The last two days of this busy busy week have upset me something awful, knowing this behavior is just hurting them more but feeling unable to make them and others completely STOP already.

 

I'm wondering why not going is not an option. You sound really concerned.

[Denisemomof4]

This is *really* hard for us. I have two kids who are indiscriminately affectionate (all three have attachment issues).

 

This week, we have been busier with lots of people. They have been in our home almost 14 months (and have been with most of these people before). And it is DRIVING ME CRAZY how they are acting because though it is "so cute" and "so friendly" and "so outgoing," it is also SO WRONG. Children should NOT act like that and it should NOT be encouraged. And then I look like the ogre for pulling my kids (especially the one) back. I try not to be too forceful about it and yet that isn't clear to the kids that they can't act like that! And people just don't understand what could be wrong with being affectionate with my kids just like they would any other kid who would be so friendly. Of course, the thing is that no other kid *would* be *that* friendly.

 

I don't know what to do. I don't seem to be able to control the adults or the children enough to protect the kids from themselves. The other part that makes this harder is because EVERYONE shakes hands and hugs (from side hugs to gentle pats to full fledged hugs, depending) EVERYONE (just part of the religion, really). So it is really overwhelmingly attention filled, "friendly," and intimate anyway. It is a real issue for kids who don't see the difference in the social dance the rest of us are doing and them going overboard becoming attention hogs, "so cute," and latching on for dear life.

 

Sorry to say all this. No doubt, if these people know the potential issues, they also may feel like, "but what do we DO to keep her from acting like that especially when everyone else just doesn't get it?!?!?!" And then there is the issue of them possibly not understanding themselves which would be terribly sad.

 

I do absolutely agree with complimenting the child by complimenting the mother. "OH, your mother bought you such a pretty dress" (rather than, "you are so pretty"). "Oh, your mommy is teaching you such good manners" (rather than, "what a good girl.") "Oh go ask your mommy" (rather than, "I'm sure your mom won't mind.")

 

Tara, Please advise me on this. I just have no clue how to keep this from happening. I think homeschooling will help (esp the one child). But what about in certain groups of people? Not going just isn't an option.

 

Earlier, after replying, I thought that one thing that may be playing into it is that I encourage us to walk around and "mingle." This is really something encouraged and something I used to not do much. But maybe if I stayed standing near our seats. Then people are leaning over our seats or the seats in front of us to hug or handshake. I will also find it easier to reign kids in that way. And I will have an extra second to ask people to please not pick them (esp the littlest) up. Seems like it would just naturally put a little more barrier to some of the behaviors. Additionally, if someone was struggling, having them sit at my feet or even just in their seat would make a difference, helping them not have those experiences or use that "power."

 

But seriously, any other ideas are greatly appreciated. The last two days of this busy busy week have upset me something awful, knowing this behavior is just hurting them more but feeling unable to make them and others completely STOP already.

 

going to have to develop some rhine skin. ;). Really. It is difficult, I know, but you are going to have to learn to be more forceful and do what is right for your kids. It took me YEARS and I had only one I was dealing with.

 

In church, we had to stop allowing her to go to Sunday School. I would always go sneak back and peek through the window. All too often RAD would be sitting in the teachers lap, snuggling up to her lovingly. I had spoken to the teacher and the director of the ministry and still, this one teacher did as she p,eased. She had only boys and loved loving on MY girl. I was NOT ok with it. The teacher even was i sulted when I told her she was no longer allowed to hold her hand, hug her or ever hold her in her lap. I gave her a letter from a woman who had 16 or 18 kids she adopted out of disruptions exp,aining how doing this woi,d be harmful to the RAD child. She poo pooed it away, so dd never returned to Su day school.

 

After the service I learned to have dh hold her so nobody else could. But we had only one. If I were you, I would have dh ho,d your youngest while you ho,d the hands of the other two. You are still tryi g to teach them that you are their family, YOU are mommy, and it would benefit them if you had a hands off policy.

:grouphug:

[Pamela H in Texas]

Thank you Denise.

 

I talked to an elder today. HE said the friends would understand we are just trying to do best by the kids; and even if they didn't, they'll forgive us anyway. He was very open to learning about what we're going through. He had already spoken to some of the other elders and I think he'll speak with them again about supporting us.

 

This morning, I did better with kiddo. He likes high fives so I told him only one and NO hugs (he's the one who latches on like his life depends on it). I praised him, kept hold of his other hand, got us outside a bit faster, etc.

 

Oh, and thankfully, there is no separate Sunday School.

Edited June 9, 2012 by 2J5M9K