Allowance, logical consequences, and destructive behaviors- HELP

[lighthouseacademy]

Can we talk about allowance and life. Here are my conflicts that I can't seem to resolve:

I believe that as part of the family, all children should do chores and help out with the work that the FAMILY needs to do. I also believe that a child should not be paid just for existing- as some who have the previous belief recommend. Then I get to thinking, if I paid for some chores and not others, I don't want the child asking every time something is asked of him if he will get paid and then choosing not to do it or having a bad attitude if it is just a family responsibility. This has doubly come to my mind because my oldest has a habit of destroying other people's belongings. We have tried everything we can think of, but the most logical consequence is that he has to replace the broken item. The only money he has is the money he has gotten for his birthday. I feel horrible demanding his birthday money to pay for the damage he has created because if he had hurried and spent it, there wouldn't be any money to pay the damage and also, I don't want to create in him a sense of better hurry and spend the money fast before I have to spend it on something I don't want to etc KWIM? So, if I am going to require him to make restitution physically, then he has to have some money. But, then I return to my first two items of the quandry. Can anyone work me out of this quandry? Any more suggestions on how to handle the destruction? (Usually it is when he is overtired or bored and I can't always prevent it. Today he was in the bathroom and decided to pull out the bristles in dd's brush before he washed his hands from going potty...He wasn't angry at her or anyone else, the brush was there and he tore it apart!)

[Alenee]

My 2 cents, FWIW... I totally believe in giving kids age-appropriate chores and paying them for it. When they move out, I'm going to have to do it or pay for it to get done. ;) We pay .25 per year of age. So right now with a 9, 6, and 4 yo, I'm not paying more than $2.25/wk per child. If they whine or complain, they still have to do it and won't get paid. That's rare though. They also can do extra work to earn money. However, if you're not ready to pay for chores, how about taking something of his and selling it on e-bay/CL? My friend did this and it hit home almost immediately. Her girls DID NOT like having to give up something of theirs to pay damages.

 

Regardless of what you choose, imo, you need to set boundaries here. If he breaks something, he needs to understand that there are consequences.period. I also think it's totally okay to take his b-day money to pay for whatever he broke. Sure, his money was a gift, but isn't the thing(s) he broke someone's gift, necessity, etc? I probably sound like a meany. Honestly, I wouldn't yell or be rude about it but I would be firm. I would rather them learn it in my home before they go somewhere and have to deal with someone else's form of restitution and not know how to handle it.

[wagnfun]

Can we talk about allowance and life. Here are my conflicts that I can't seem to resolve:

I believe that as part of the family, all children should do chores and help out with the work that the FAMILY needs to do. I also believe that a child should not be paid just for existing- as some who have the previous belief recommend. Then I get to thinking, if I paid for some chores and not others, I don't want the child asking every time something is asked of him if he will get paid and then choosing not to do it or having a bad attitude if it is just a family responsibility.

 

I can only tell you what we do here. Each child has a list of chores that is THEIR responsibility (and it changes weekly & with age). For these, they do NOT get paid. They are part of our family, and our family works together. HOWEVER, on my fridge I have listed chores they can earn money for. Examples are: washing the car, weeding the flower bed, wash the dog, clean out fridge (yes remove everything, wash down, return all items to fridge). If I happen to pull all the kids outside with me one Saturday and its clean the yard day, I don't pay for that weeding. I only pay for the extras the kids pull of the fridge and do themselves without prompting. Basically we pay for the kids activities (church, movies w/ friends we invite along, ice cream with the youth group) until the child has a job or is in high school whichever is first. Spending money (for renting video games, to purchase ANOTHER skateboard or for social activities they plan themselves), for those, they are on their own. My oldest is 17 and currently looking for a job. My husband is paying her car insurance and gas until she gets a job, then we will ween her off our pocketbook.

 

I'm sure you will get other advice, but this is what has worked for us!

[lighthouseacademy]

 

Regardless of what you choose, imo, you need to set boundaries here. If he breaks something, he needs to understand that there are consequences.period. I also think it's totally okay to take his b-day money to pay for whatever he broke. Sure, his money was a gift, but isn't the thing(s) he broke someone's gift, necessity, etc? I probably sound like a meany. Honestly, I wouldn't yell or be rude about it but I would be firm. I would rather them learn it in my home before they go somewhere and have to deal with someone else's form of restitution and not know how to handle it.

 

There have ALWAYS been consequences for his destruction. It is simply not acceptable in this house to disrespect other people's property. Last fall, I did march him down to the store with his $2 from his birthday money to buy a new set of crayons for his sister that he had destroyed. We have done this several times, and it has worked for a while until he forgets. However, I am concerned that with the fact that he is $6 and therefore got $6 this year for his birthday that #1 he has already had to pay $2 for damages. I don't want his birthday money to become a punishment and I want him to value saving his money to use for what he really wants not just spend it fast- if he keeps paying out for his damages, without any allowance coming in, then what will I go to!?

[manylilblessings]

Our children are required to take care of their own responsibilities for no pay. They clean their rooms, make their beds, clean up toys, etc.

 

They are paid for things that serve the family (or the pets). They are paid to feed/water/clean up after the animals, empty the dishwasher, sweep the kitchen, sort laundry, gather hangers for laundry (my 4yo), set the table, collect wastebaskets, take garbage out, and work in the yard. Some jobs are assigned to an individual, but if they fail to do that job someone else can take it over and receive the pay. My 10yo earns a lot of money each week, because he's the most motivated. He's also already saving for a car, which he designated 75% of his earnings to after tithing.

 

If they complain about a job, they get to do it without pay. Only one of my children falls into that trap... and she's tough in many areas! At the end of the week we tally how much they've earned and Sunday is payday.

 

If they're disrespectful to each other or to parents, they are fined and write it on the tally sheet. It's quick and easy, and it stops the disrespect quickly.

 

If it were my kids I'd make one pay for the item that was destroyed which belonged to another. That shows lack of care for another's feelings and belongings. I wouldn't make a huge deal out of it... they'd just accompany me to Walmart the next time with their wallet, and purchase the item. Feeling bad for them is fine... but not acting on the need for them to have a consequence because you feed bad is enabling them. It's okay to share their dismay... as you insist that they make it right. Compassion for them, consideration for the sibling. If the sibling whose toy was broken wants to be merciful (not being prompted to...) that's okay with me. That's life too. Sometimes we break something and replace it, and sometimes the person insists it's okay, and not a dear object. I love when my kids show mercy.

 

Good luck coming up with a system. You'll figure out what's right for your family.

[Pamela H in Texas]

A couple thoughts:

 

1) you get money though you don't work outside of what is your responsibility as a family member (household chores, raising kids, educating kids, etc). That is how I rectify, in my head, that it's fine for kids to get a small amount just because they are responsible members (household chores, schooling, helping, etc) of a household.

 

2) even if I didn't believe the above, I'm still of the camp that an allowance is to teach financial responsibility, not work ethic. There are other things for work=compensation (pay, appreciation, etc).

 

3) whether I believe the two things above or not, I'm fine with the idea of paying for CERTAIN jobs. What *I* would do if I did this would be to have an "extra jobs" list and the price each pays (I have an extra jobs list but it's just mandatory to pick a job daily, anyway, no extra pay...and btw, everyone mows almost every day as we have over an acre and a push mower and it's HOT). Anyway, this would get you out of the "how much does this pay?" problem. I would have one exception. If they want to WRITE out a proposal for a certain job and pay, that would be fine. It can be negotiated from there (in writing). So kid could write how he would be willing to move the lillies behind the mailbox (he heard you tell dad!) for $4.

 

4) Logical consequences are logical consequences REGARDLESS. If ds spends his allowance or earned money, then the logical consequence is that his next allowances or earned monies OR gift money(!) goes towards replacing the item. If you do not allow him the logical consequence, how will he get on in life? This is one mistake parents make. They'd rather punish, ignore, let things go, etc...ANYTHING but let their kid deal with real life consequences.

 

5) I also believe that restitution means "something extra" should be given. Maybe he can do sister's chores the next day (or week). Maybe he can do something extra special for the friend he wronged, whatever. I no longer live next door to chickens but the example I always used was that if I run over my neighbor's chicken accidentally, I pay for the chicken AND take him one of my famous apple pies (btw, that too is just an example).

 

6) if ds is regularly destroying things, there is one of 2 things going on. He either is fulfilling a need by doing so. I can see how your example would fulfill, for example, a sensory need. These things would need to be addressed appropriately with accomodation and/or medical help. The second option is that he's gotten into a bad habit and because there isn't an appropriate consequence (ie, he pays for replacements!), he doesn't have a reason to refrain from doing such things. He's only 6 so some could just be developmental so a little bit extra in the sensory department and some logical consequences could straighten him up pretty quickly.

 

Anyway, so all this to say that I don't think it matters HOW your son gets some money but that I do think kids need some in order to learn about it. Waiting til they are teenagers (or grown) can be disasterous. So pick a way (you aren't going to be wrong regardless, btw....it's just your way; be okay with that!). But PLEASE have your son fix and/or replace items he damages. There are already too many people in this world who do whatever they want with narry a thought about the rest of us (like the idiot driving 80, weaving through traffic, on the freeway!).

[Mama2Three]

We haven't begun paying an allowance -- so take this with a grain of salt, lol -- but when we start this fall I plan to pay based on age (I like the quarter per year formula). I agree with you, as a member of our family, each child is expected to contribute to the workings of the household, so I wouldn't tie allowance to expected chores. However, I might have a list of extra chores that could be done for extra money, if one of my DC wanted to buy something special. But again, I haven't BTDT, so I might change my mind.

 

I think that before you set an allowance, you should think about what you want the child to use it for and what you want the child to learn from the experience. Then you can figure out what would be an appropriate amount.

 

Best wishes!

[bkpan]

Can we talk about allowance and life. Here are my conflicts that I can't seem to resolve:

I believe that as part of the family, all children should do chores and help out with the work that the FAMILY needs to do. I also believe that a child should not be paid just for existing- as some who have the previous belief recommend. Then I get to thinking, if I paid for some chores and not others, I don't want the child asking every time something is asked of him if he will get paid and then choosing not to do it or having a bad attitude if it is just a family responsibility. This has doubly come to my mind because my oldest has a habit of destroying other people's belongings. We have tried everything we can think of, but the most logical consequence is that he has to replace the broken item. The only money he has is the money he has gotten for his birthday. I feel horrible demanding his birthday money to pay for the damage he has created because if he had hurried and spent it, there wouldn't be any money to pay the damage and also, I don't want to create in him a sense of better hurry and spend the money fast before I have to spend it on something I don't want to etc KWIM? So, if I am going to require him to make restitution physically, then he has to have some money. But, then I return to my first two items of the quandry. Can anyone work me out of this quandry? Any more suggestions on how to handle the destruction? (Usually it is when he is overtired or bored and I can't always prevent it. Today he was in the bathroom and decided to pull out the bristles in dd's brush before he washed his hands from going potty...He wasn't angry at her or anyone else, the brush was there and he tore it apart!)

 

We had a hard time balancing the chores/ allowance dilemma as well. In addition to not wanting the dc to have a sense of entitlement, we also wanted them TO have a heart to serve, and my fear was that if you only paid them for certain chores, then their minds would start equating all work with "how much will I get for it." Our other concern was the desire to train in money management and their relationship to money, so this is what I've recently come up with.

 

We have 6 dc, and (for the ones old enough) I have recently greatly expanded their chore responsibilities at our home. In fact, our goal is to have our home at least 75% run by the kids within a few years. Anyway, they have a lot to do and will receive their "allowance" weekly corresponding to their age. Off the top of that amount will come their "giving", and the rest will be as follows. 50% directly into long-term savings and the other half for their spending/short-term savings. The first half will go into their bank account regardless, but the other half is very dependent on the completion of their chores as well as their attitudes about them.

 

The chores WILL be done by each dc because of their necessary contribution to their family. But how and when will help to determine how much money they will have access to, (just like in the real world). In addition to the "allowance" system, we always have work for pay available as well. Now our oldest is only 11yo so our dc are still young, with much training needed. I'll let you know how it goes after a year or so.:D HTH

 

Also, I do agree that your ds needs to pay for the item. I would either demand the bday money, or I would come up with some work that ds could do to pay for it.

 

Kim

[lynn]

Can we talk about allowance and life. Here are my conflicts that I can't seem to resolve:

I believe that as part of the family, all children should do chores and help out with the work that the FAMILY needs to do. I also believe that a child should not be paid just for existing- as some who have the previous belief recommend. Then I get to thinking, if I paid for some chores and not others, I don't want the child asking every time something is asked of him if he will get paid and then choosing not to do it or having a bad attitude if it is just a family responsibility. This has doubly come to my mind because my oldest has a habit of destroying other people's belongings. We have tried everything we can think of, but the most logical consequence is that he has to replace the broken item. The only money he has is the money he has gotten for his birthday. I feel horrible demanding his birthday money to pay for the damage he has created because if he had hurried and spent it, there wouldn't be any money to pay the damage and also, I don't want to create in him a sense of better hurry and spend the money fast before I have to spend it on something I don't want to etc KWIM? So, if I am going to require him to make restitution physically, then he has to have some money. But, then I return to my first two items of the quandry. Can anyone work me out of this quandry? Any more suggestions on how to handle the destruction? (Usually it is when he is overtired or bored and I can't always prevent it. Today he was in the bathroom and decided to pull out the bristles in dd's brush before he washed his hands from going potty...He wasn't angry at her or anyone else, the brush was there and he tore it apart!)

 

There are a couple of options. 1. have a list of chores that can be done to earn some money. these could be seasonal, cleaning gutters, washing windows, baseboards, cleaning out the fridge, cabinets, polishing cabinets, cleaning out the hall closet, garage. In our house trimming the bushes, sweeping the front porch and wiping down the porch chairs, cleaning cob webs, washing and vaccuuming cars etc.

2. He has to the do the other persons chores as payment for the broken item. This being said the other person should not have an attitude of "huh, your doing me chores for me:D" but have a forgiving spirit for whatever was broken not to be mentioned again because the payment has been paid or in this case worked off. HTH

[st_claire]

I agree a lot with what Pamela said.

 

 

To me, a kid's "job" is that they study and learn and generally behave themselves. If they are doing these things, then I think they deserve a share of the family income. If you make them do chores for income, they get the idea that the only worthwhile contribution is labour.

 

I do think that every kid should do chores, as it teaches them how to help out. I think they should have some things they are in charge of, like making their bed, and a rotating list of chores that they take turns on, like laundry or cleaning a bathroom (mostly so the learn *how* to do these chores). I also think that if they are not busy they should generally help out with setting the table, etc...

 

An allowance is great because it teaches kids how to budget. Start with small amounts, enough to buy some candy. This teaches a kid how to spend, and that once they spend it, there is no more. Then move up to enough that they can save a few weeks for a toy. This teaches them that things they want are worth waiting for. Then eventually, when they are responsible enough, let them make a budget for their clothing etc... and let them handle those expenses. You get the nice side effect never having to tell a kid no at the store.

 

"Can I have this toy mom?"

"Sure! Did you bring your money?"

 

:001_smile:

[angela in ohio]

We have a different take on the chore/allowance situation. I look at what habit I want them to have when they are an adult and try to place them on a path to it. So, as an adult, I want dc to happily operate within a family budget, not feeling the need for their "own" money to blow on things. I also want them to be a contributing member of their family, not worrying about which chore is theirs and which is their spouses, but just doing what needs done and giving more than 100%.

 

The child version of that at our house is this: Dc are expected to take care of personal responsibilities and then everything else is everyone's responsibility. I have the most eager workers around, and I know it is because of this system. Also, we do not pay alowance, but their needs are considered along with the rest of the family's when it is time to budget and spend money.

 

Just another approach, if you want to rethink the "usual system." :)

 

About ds: I'm not sure at 6 a child fully understands monetary restitution. I would discipline for disobedience if you have told him repeatedly not to destroy things and he still does it. This is not acceptable behavior for a bored OR overtired kiddo, and you shouldn't have to worry about preventing it. He needs to be able to understand at 6 yo that you just don't destroy things. If you do decide to keep having him pay for the items, you can just take his next birthday money if he has already spent everything he has.

[Heather in the Kootenays]

At our house, we have chores they do for free (or for room and board or because they're part of the family) no matter what. If they need extra money (for something they want or for something they broke), I have chores that I'm willing to pay to have done.

[Lizzie in Ma]

If there is no money to repay someone for damaged property, perhaps there would be a way to "take it out in trade"?

Perhaps you replace the object and he has to repay you with things like mopping the floor, washing the windows, extra chores or the chores of the person whose possession he broke?

Just throwing an idea out there, hang in there.

[lighthouseacademy]

Thank you for all your suggestions. You ladies are entirely right- restitution must be made. This child DOES understand monetary restitution. We actually haven't had the real destructive behavior for a while but it has returned... As I said before, there has ALWAYS been a consequence whether it was working something off or repairing the damage, or outright paying for what was damaged. I will NOT stand by and allow my son or my daughters to become irresponsible menaces to society who believe they are entitled to whatever it is he or she wants to do. We believe in respecting others.

[Dayle in Guatemala]

is paying for extra jobs.

 

We have a chore list for each dc and they are required to do these daily. Things like cleaning their rooms, helping with laundry, doing dishes, being responsible for certain areas of the house being picked up, yard work, taking care of the pets, stuff like that. They don't get allowance for that, that is just part of being in this particular family. Lucky them!:D

 

But, when we have other chores: reorganizing shelves, helping with the gardening, decluttering a closet, extra prep for ministry stuff, things like that, we will pay by the job. In other words we will let them know that the shelves need to be reorganized in the linen closet, the job pays $5.00 (or something like that) the first person who wants it should let me know asap. First come, first serve. If noone takes it, fine, I'll do it. But, the next time we go out and they want an ice cream or they want something other than a basic need, they will learn fast that they should take these extra jobs when they can.

 

This is our experiment! I'll let you know if it works!