my kid wants to try AoPS pre-algebra. Hmmmm

[redsquirrel]

I am not sure this is a good idea. But maybe it is?

 

We are finishing up SM 6b, right on schedule. I was planning to spend next year working through the Key To Algebra and some Tops Science math units. 8th grade is going to be Foerster with Math Without Borders.

 

I would NEVER consider my kid to be an AoPS kid. He doesn't have difficulty with math, just doesn't really like it. Well... he does like it quite a bit when he 'gets it'. He tends to have a low tolerance for frustration. Most things come easily to him, and we talk a lot about how that feeling of frustration is something to accept, to get comfortable with. Just because you feel something doesn't mean that you have to stop what you are doing. He is getting much, much better with frustration and is learning how to embrace that energy (and breath through it).

 

I showed him a couple pre-algebra videos over at AoPS re: triangles. We are finishing up the geometry unit in SM 6b and I thought it might be helpful. Well, he LOVED the videos. I have used Kahn Academy on occasion and he liked those as well, but not like the ones at AoPS. I think part of it might be that the teacher at AoPS looks and acts just like my son's beloved piano teacher. They could be brothers.

 

I showed him the printed samples and pointed out how much writing is on the page. He is used to only math problems in his math book. He didn't do well with LOF. There was something about the very casual attitude in the writing that threw him. I also think he wanted more instruction and practice before moving on. When I showed him the pages he kept saying "it's fine. I like it. I want to do that" :glare:

 

I am not thrilled with spending 60$ for something that is destined to be a very bad fit. OTOH, my math skills are very poor (hence the Math Without Borders plan) and I worry that I am underestimating what he can do.

 

What say you all? Am I over thinking this? Is it possible that AoPS pre-algebra isn't such a big deal for a kid who has already done SM 6a&b? I think of AoPS as being for kids who are superstars in math. If my kid was in a ps I think he would be one of the 'smart kids' but not a math superstar.

[jennynd]

I will let him try it. If not working, you can always resale the book. I think AOPS books hold their value pretty well

[Matryoshka]

I had my dd try Alcumus as a supplement during Singapore 6a. She liked it so much that she asked to stop Singapore altogether. I told her she'd have to do the whole program, not just Alcumus - she's taking the Prealgebra 1 class and loving it.

 

I was worried about all the text too, as she's not a big reader. But it's not fazing her at all. I say give it a try.

[Jen500]

I will let him try it. If not working, you can always resale the book. I think AOPS books hold their value pretty well

 

:iagree:

 

I don't think AoPS is the same as LOF. Yes, it's wordy, but it's all about math, no storylines.

[wapiti]

I showed him a couple pre-algebra videos over at AoPS re: triangles. We are finishing up the geometry unit in SM 6b and I thought it might be helpful. Well, he LOVED the videos. I have used Kahn Academy on occasion and he liked those as well, but not like the ones at AoPS. I think part of it might be that the teacher at AoPS looks and acts just like my son's beloved piano teacher. They could be brothers.

 

My kids love the videos too. The "teacher" is Richard Rusczyk himself. I marvel at the talent and energy he puts into making those videos. I hope he understands how worthwhile that is, because his videos alone help build enthusiasm for math and for solving hard problems. If it weren't for the visual context provided by the videos, dd probably wouldn't have felt comfortable enough and enthused enough to enroll in the class - for her, they were a bit of a stepping stone. Now that she's taking his class, I'm confident that she'd be willing to take other AoPS classes with other instructors.

 

Is it possible that AoPS pre-algebra isn't such a big deal for a kid who has already done SM 6a&b?

 

Yes, this is possible.

 

I think of AoPS as being for kids who are superstars in math. If my kid was in a ps I think he would be one of the 'smart kids' but not a math superstar.

 

My dd likes it, she's good at it, and she's quite bright, but it's hard to say whether she has what it takes to be a superstar. However, she has learned a ton from AoPS, and not just about math per se. It has really stretched her thinking. The big picture perspective on problem solving is very important. We'll see how much of that she takes with her going forward, but I'm pleased enough that I'd like to "require" each of my kids to do some amount of AoPS at some point. I'm hoping they'll all do the Prealgebra book at a minimum (this is tricky because they attend school. I'm amazed at the large number of schoolkids who do AoPS in addition to their regular homework).

 

I will let him try it. If not working, you can always resale the book. I think AOPS books hold their value pretty well

 

:iagree: It's so new that used copies are rarely available, so presumably it would be easy to sell.

Edited May 16, 2012 by wapiti

[melmichigan]

My DD doesn't love math, she is good at it and has very high problem solving skills. AoPS Prealgebra and particularly Richard Rusczyk have been amazing this last year, his love of math is contagious. He has been very encouraging to her and has changed her attitude toward math. It is now something she can do and feel good about versus a very boring dull subject that she wasn't very good at. She has began the journey. RR and the TA's still tell her that she can do more than she thinks she can and encourage her to take more time and ponder things, which is totally new to her, but the change is amazing.

 

Will she go all the way through AoPS? I have no idea, but I believe that the view she now has of herself was more than worth the time and effort invested. For us the online classes and that interaction made all the difference. I don't think we would have had the same result if we had just used the book, I just don't have that same enthusiasm for math as others who have taught it themselves. I promised my DD I would do all the book work she did, and I am thrilled to be done with class.

[redsquirrel]

Yeah, I can't afford the online class. I looked and it is 250 per semester. I don't doubt they are worth every penny, that is out of our budget. Too bad, because I am sure they are great.

 

gah! I am going to have to figure out how to facilitate this. I can't teach it, but maybe I can facilitate.

[letsplaymath]

Yeah, I can't afford the online class. I looked and it is 250 per semester. I don't doubt they are worth every penny, that is out of our budget. Too bad, because I am sure they are great.

 

gah! I am going to have to figure out how to facilitate this. I can't teach it, but maybe I can facilitate.

 

You may not have to worry too much about teaching, because the book does a very good job of explaining, and there are also the videos, and the forum is a great place for asking questions.

[redsquirrel]

You may not have to worry too much about teaching, because the book does a very good job of explaining, and there are also the videos, and the forum is a great place for asking questions.

 

That makes me feel better. I have been reading the samples and I can tell that, for my son, it will work best if I read it out loud to him, almost as a script. He is very much an aural learner and will understand it better that way.

 

I did check the forums, but it mostly seems to be math problems. I didn't see any posts entitled, "We are lost! Please send out a search party!" :lol:

 

Well, I guess I can be the first.

[Create Your Ritual]

I can join you at that forum ;-) We are headed in this coming school year as well with dd11.

[Create Your Ritual]

Melissa ... you are about to talk me into the online class, except that I am a bit concerned that the pace of the class might be too quick.

 

Can you tell me a bit about what was expected each week? How many hours of work? How many pages of work?

[Matryoshka]

Melissa ... you are about to talk me into the online class, except that I am a bit concerned that the pace of the class might be too quick.

 

Can you tell me a bit about what was expected each week? How many hours of work? How many pages of work?

 

The Prealgebra class hasn't been too bad - I think the Algebra class is about double the pace! That one scares me.:tongue_smilie:

 

They get about 2-3 sections of a chapter to work through, along with 1-3 Alcumus topics to complete, and 7-10 challenge problems. My dd has really learned how to split things up over the week so she gets everything done on time.

[Create Your Ritual]

Thanks Matroyshka! My other question was about how teachers other than Richard have been? I see that he is doing a summer pre-alg, but I wasn't sure if he would be doing one of the fall ones. I love his videos, and would probably go with his class first. I would like to hear reviews of the other teachers though and whether it is going well with them.

[Matryoshka]

Thanks Matroyshka! My other question was about how teachers other than Richard have been? I see that he is doing a summer pre-alg, but I wasn't sure if he would be doing one of the fall ones. I love his videos, and would probably go with his class first. I would like to hear reviews of the other teachers though and whether it is going well with them.

 

Well, we didn't start Prealgebra 1 till the spring, so we've ended up with someone other than RR. We have Joshua Zucker, who will also be the teacher for the summer session we've signed up for. I cannot compare with RR as we've never had him, but dd is liking the class well enough to voluntarily sign up for summer math. :)

[Kathy in Richmond]

The AoPS classes are all fully scripted and written in advance of class. You'll get the exact same instruction, examples, and problem sets regardless of the teacher that you select. And you don't actually see or hear the teacher during class; you just see the words and problems on the classroom whiteboard and participate by typing in the chat box. Of course, the teacher's personality comes through in chatting a bit with the kids between problems, but it's not crucial. Questions can be asked during class, but are usually fielded by the class TA (be sure to keep them busy; they'd rather have questions than just sit and listen to prealgebra for an hour and a half -ask me how I know:))

 

Homework grading and feedback is done by a pool of college-age graders who grab papers from various classes/teachers (my kids have done this, so I've seen it in action). They are vetted for their ability to give good feedback and are each given a set of classes they're allowed to grade for. So again, grading also doesn't depend on the teacher whom you select.

 

My kids took more-than-I-care-to-count AoPS online courses, and they thoroughly enjoyed all of their instructors. Read the teacher bios -they're an impressive bunch of guys and gals.:001_smile:

[redsquirrel]

lalalala I can't hear yoooooou :lol:

 

I just keep telling myself that one year from now it will be me giving support to some mom who is worried about pre-algebra. If ds and I get through this class we can do anything!

[melmichigan]

The Prealgebra class hasn't been too bad - I think the Algebra class is about double the pace! That one scares me.:tongue_smilie:

 

:iagree: I'm waiting to hear what RR recommends. Remember, the Prealgebra is done in two 16 week sessions, so 32 weeks to finish 15 Chapters, it is much slower than other AoPS classes.

 

I believe from looking at the list that all of the other teachers now teaching the Prealgebra classes have worked with RR and sat in on some of the Prealgebra classes before taking on their own class. They were introduced to the first class of students taking each section throughout the course and fielded questions some of the time (my DD was more than happy to keep the TA's busy at times so I recognize at least one name), their bios are indeed very impressive.

 

The homework is now more hands off, all but one or two questions each week are graded automatically similar to alcumus. The other one or two questions are submitted in written form and graded individually. The online class now runs an hour and forty-five minutes, but many of the kids are in the classroom early messing around and often the teacher would work with kids after class, with additinal questions, or with the Latex programming, so my DD was often online well over two hours for class.

Edited May 18, 2012 by melmichigan