help me with Saxon math placement

[razorbackmama]

Incredibly long story short, my finishing-up 9th grader is just finishing pre-algebra. He is behind due to a myriad of reasons, most of which are not his fault. He's actually pretty decent in math. MUS set him a couple years behind, but there were other things too. He has been working through Lial's BCM for the past several months and is finally done. I thought that he'd be able to place without a hitch into Saxon Algebra I and then just really work his hiney off to get caught up.

 

Then I looked at the placement test.:001_huh:

 

PART of it is just the way things are worded. But some of the things I don't think were even covered in BCM.

 

But if I tell him that he has to do pre-algebra AGAIN, he may completely lose it. He is already ticked as all get out that he's so far behind because of MUS.

 

Now, like I said, I think much of the stuff is just differently worded or whatever on the placement test. Should I help him through the placement test, not giving him the answer, but maybe explaining it in terms he's familiar with?

 

Other things I think he just hasn't reviewed in a while and has possibly forgotten (one reason we're moving to Saxon). I know it's not ideal but would it totally screw him up if I reminded him about something?

 

Should I just skip the placement test and have him start in Algebra I and scaffold and review whenever he needs it?

 

Should I do something else that I haven't thought of?

[curlylocks]

:lurk5:

 

My 16 yo dd is moving from MUS to Saxon. She is going to place somewhere in Algebra 1.

[Pixjen]

After using Saxon for a few years with my DD, I will personally never use or recommend it to anyone else. I am not a mathy person at all, and found the directions to be confusing and frustrating. We loved Teaching Textbooks, but of course YMMV.

 

Is there any reason he should be told that he might be doing pre-algebra again? Can you just explain that you'll be working at a pace that will allow him master to the subject? He's really not "behind," just working at his own pace. Perhaps you could find some pre-algebra or algebra based games that you could play over the summer, vs textbook type learning. Maybe some living math books?

 

Or maybe you could explain to him that different math books (like schools) teach different topics at different times, and that any review will be just to fill in the missing gaps in the books. Emphasizing the books are the problem, not him.

[razorbackmama]

After using Saxon for a few years with my DD, I will personally never use or recommend it to anyone else. I am not a mathy person at all, and found the directions to be confusing and frustrating. We loved Teaching Textbooks, but of course YMMV.

I've actually considered TT simply because its scope & sequence is a bit behind the other programs, so the Name of the Course won't get in the way. Is it a mastery program, or is it an incremental review like Saxon? I really think he needs to have the continual reviews. Of course then I'm still stuck with what to use at the very end because the scope & sequence of TT from Alg. I all the way through pre-calc. is more like Alg. I & II, so I'd still need to come up with what to use for geometry and pre-calc., IF he even gets that far due to running out of time. As it is he'll be doing math year-round till he graduates, I'm afraid.:glare:

 

Is there any reason he should be told that he might be doing pre-algebra again?

Well he'd flip at the name on the book, and I can't really hide it from him.:tongue_smilie:

Can you just explain that you'll be working at a pace that will allow him master to the subject? He's really not "behind," just working at his own pace.

That's just it...he's actually working at DOUBLE pace currently. He IS behind because MUS didn't cover what he needed to know. So he's in the process of catching up, but apparently it may still not be far enough.

 

Perhaps you could find some pre-algebra or algebra based games that you could play over the summer, vs textbook type learning. Maybe some living math books?

He'd HATE that. He's a very "just give me the textbook" kid. Plus, in order for him to finish out his 4 credits of math to graduate, he needs to get into Alg. I ASAP. I was planning to have him start it this next week and then work all summer long so he could start Alg. II hopefully after Christmas.

 

Emphasizing the books are the problem, not him.

Oh, he's well aware of that. MUS is a four-letter word to him LOL.

[Teachin'Mine]

Doing Saxon's placement test without help from you, where did he place? If you're not against working through the summer, I'd recommend starting now with 8/7. A lot of it should be review, but Saxon has a way of doing problems which is really helpful to learn before beginning algebra. What he probably didn't cover is a lot of the geometry which is worked into the Saxon texts. It would be great if he could become familiar with that in 8/7 before beginning algebra 1. If he could do two lessons a day - should take about two hours or so - then he'd finish that up before the new school year, and he'd be thoroughly ready for algebra. With the geometry included in the other texts, even with starting a bit "behind", he can get through quite a bit - Algebra 1 in 10th, Algebra 2 in 11th, and half or all of Advanced Math (pre-calculus) in 12th. If he works through the summers, he could even advance more quickly and definitely finish the Advanced Math in 12th which would place him into calculus in college. Not bad for being "behind". :)

[razorbackmama]

Doing Saxon's placement test without help from you' date=' where did he place?[/quote']He didn't take it yet - I just looked at it myself and am gearing up for him to bomb it.:tongue_smilie:

 

If you're not against working through the summer, I'd recommend starting now with 8/7.

I'm definitely not against working through the summer - that has been the plan all along.:)

 

Is there a particular reason why you'd recommend 8/7 rather that Alg. 1/2?

 

A lot of it should be review, but Saxon has a way of doing problems which is really helpful to learn before beginning algebra. What he probably didn't cover is a lot of the geometry which is worked into the Saxon texts. It would be great if he could become familiar with that in 8/7 before beginning algebra 1. If he could do two lessons a day - should take about two hours or so - then he'd finish that up before the new school year, and he'd be thoroughly ready for algebra. With the geometry included in the other texts, even with starting a bit "behind", he can get through quite a bit - Algebra 1 in 10th, Algebra 2 in 11th, and half or all of Advanced Math (pre-calculus) in 12th. If he works through the summers, he could even advance more quickly and definitely finish the Advanced Math in 12th which would place him into calculus in college. Not bad for being "behind". :)

Hmmmmmm I hadn't really considered that - I'd forgotten than geometry and pre-calc. were covered in Advanced Math. I forget...that's roughly a 3-semester course, right?

[Teachin'Mine]

He didn't take it yet - I just looked at it myself and am gearing up for him to bomb it.:tongue_smilie:

 

He may surprise you. :) The test won't give accurate placement if you help him with the questions. Tell him ahead of time that Saxon has geometry along with algebra, so he won't know everything, but just to do his best. Let him do it on his own, and see where he places. I'd take note of what he gets wrong - I forget if you can print the test out or not, it's been a while. Then you can use this info to help concentrate your efforts in those areas. If he needs to do Saxon's pre-algebra, emphasize that it's not because he hasn't done well in Lial's, but that it's just because they set up problems differently and have some content that's not included in the Lial's. (and honestly I have no idea what's included in Lial's BM)

 

I'm definitely not against working through the summer - that has been the plan all along.:)

 

Is there a particular reason why you'd recommend 8/7 rather that Alg. 1/2?

 

Both will give him pre-algebra, but the 8/7 will make sure he's up on his measurement conversions and has lots of facts practice with fractions, decimals and percents which will help him tremendously in algebra 1. I've never read through Algebra 1/2, but in flipping through, I preferred what I had seen, an used, with 8/7. Saxon generally recommends 8/7 be used and then Algebra 1/2 only if the student needs more work before advancing to algebra. But the Algebra 1/2 looks more like an algebra text and it has the name "algebra" in it, so your son might balk less and consider it more of a step forward than something with 8 and 7 in the title. :tongue_smilie: If so, I'm sure that that would work just fine too. Maybe someone who has used both could give you a better comparison. After he takes the placement test, you can also give Saxon a call and speak with a math teacher about his situation and see what they recommend. I had found it very helpful to speak with them as gave a recommendation other than what I was planning, and they were right.

 

Hmmmmmm I hadn't really considered that - I'd forgotten than geometry and pre-calc. were covered in Advanced Math. I forget...that's roughly a 3-semester course, right?

 

Advanced Math is challenging to complete in a year, but it can be done, especially if working through the summer. Generally it's done in 3 or 4 semesters. It has roughly the same number of lessons, it's just that the problems are more involved and time consuming. If you set aside about an hour and a half to two hours a day for a lesson, it can be done in a school year. Half way through that, your son would have the four math credits - algebra 1, algebra 2, geometry and trigonometry. Completing the Advanced Math changes the trigonometry to a complete pre-calculus course. Some schools give one credit for each half.

[razorbackmama]

It sounds like 8/7 is very similar to Lial's. He can rock the basics - decimals, fractions, etc. But solving for a variable has really thrown him for a loop. Part of it is because of bad habits MUS allowed him to form (he is balking at having to keep both sides of the equation equal. For example, if the problem is 2x=14, rather than writing down 2x/2=14/2 or, at a MINIMUM, x=7, he wants to draw an arrow and then write 14/2=7. He intuitively knows what he should be doing, but he's having trouble translating it into mathematical form, since MUS never required anything even close to that.:glare: Then I think he gets everything all jumbled up in his head because he tends to try to solve it in his head first and then write out the problem, rather than writing it out and taking it step by step.

 

ANYWAY! The algebraic thinking is really challenging to him (which isn't surprising - logic is not his thing, no matter what kind of logic it is LOL).

 

So maybe we'll see...maybe he WILL surprise me!

[Trilliums]

You might try an online program over the summer. Khanacademy.org or a free aleks trial (2 months).

http://www.aleks.com/webform/hsm_203

 

Both would pinpoint problem areas and help him address them before starting an alg program.

 

I know my younger son had a heck of a time with conversions because he wanted to intuit them all out. He had to mentally slow down and learn a step by step approach. I see in alg this kind of situation came up a lot in the beginning. After a rough couple of months, he has settled into a better system though. Of course, now summer is almost here!

[HollyDay]

I'll toss is a couple ideas.......Saxon 1/2 covers most of what is in 87 but at a faster pace. I've used both 87 and 1/2. Saxon probably covers topics your ds has not encountered since it includes geometry in the algebra texts. But, the newer editions of Saxon do not include geometry. Have you compared the "older" Algebra 1 with the newer edition?

 

TT does have a different scope and sequence to Saxon. Have you looked at their placement test?

 

Another thought would be the Key to Algebra series. I believe there are 10 workbooks. These are great for filling in holes and giving extra practice. You could probably do these over the summer (again depending upon gaps).

[razorbackmama]

You might try an online program over the summer. Khanacademy.org or a free aleks trial (2 months).

http://www.aleks.com/webform/hsm_203

 

Both would pinpoint problem areas and help him address them before starting an alg program.

I'd forgotten about Khan Academy. I'll have to check it out. I know whenever I've gone over there before I was completely overwhelmed. Maybe if I do the placement test and see which areas he needs some work on, I can find some stuff at Khan to have him go through.

 

I know my younger son had a heck of a time with conversions because he wanted to intuit them all out. He had to mentally slow down and learn a step by step approach. I see in alg this kind of situation came up a lot in the beginning. After a rough couple of months, he has settled into a better system though. Of course, now summer is almost here!

Yes, going step-by-step is a major issue here.:glare:

 

I'll toss is a couple ideas.......Saxon 1/2 covers most of what is in 87 but at a faster pace. I've used both 87 and 1/2. Saxon probably covers topics your ds has not encountered since it includes geometry in the algebra texts. But, the newer editions of Saxon do not include geometry. Have you compared the "older" Algebra 1 with the newer edition?

I honestly haven't even looked at the newer Algebra I because I haven't heard great things about it. Plus I can get the 3rd edition for free LOL.

 

TT does have a different scope and sequence to Saxon. Have you looked at their placement test?

Last night I printed both of their scopes & sequences out and was trying to compare, but I was too tired LOL.

 

Another thought would be the Key to Algebra series. I believe there are 10 workbooks. These are great for filling in holes and giving extra practice. You could probably do these over the summer (again depending upon gaps).

Hmmmm yes that's another idea I hadn't considered!

 

I guess my only hesitation with that is that he was supposed to start Alg. I within the next week or two and work on it over the summer. I'd love to be able to get 4 math credits in him by the time he graduates so he could go to a state college if he wanted to. Our state colleges require 4 math credits for admission as of 2010.:glare: BUT his only option for college may be a community college at first (both educationally AND financially), so I may be pushing us both for nothing.

[Deniseibase]

I can't do quote within a quote, but in regards to your post -

 

- Kahn Academy is good for review, BUT it's very easy to go through and just work the algorithms - there is nothing that makes you show your work, and in fact, the system is set up to reward fast answers with special badges. We use it for mental math practice & it really DOES help with that, but it won't help you if going step by step and showing all work is an issue.

 

- the new Saxon Algebra I is a neat book, with more varied story problems and more conceptual explanations than the 'old' Saxon Algebra I, but requires a LOT of teacher prep, plus the solutions manual has errors. I wouldn't suggest it for a struggling student.

[razorbackmama]

I can't do quote within a quote, but in regards to your post -

 

- Kahn Academy is good for review, BUT it's very easy to go through and just work the algorithms - there is nothing that makes you show your work, and in fact, the system is set up to reward fast answers with special badges. We use it for mental math practice & it really DOES help with that, but it won't help you if going step by step and showing all work is an issue.

Ew yeah, we don't need that!!!!!!!:thumbdown:

[razorbackmama]

:party::party::party:

 

I just looked again at the state college entrance requirements, and above Alg. II is NOT required! A 4th math credit IS, but I guess I could count his pre-algebra from this year or something. This is a HUGE relief!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tammyla]

Oh good.

 

Give the test and place him where he places. In the end, he needs to be successful; for some that success comes early and others...a little later, but they get there just the same.

 

Imo...It's always better not to set them up for failure.

 

:party::party::party:

 

I just looked again at the state college entrance requirements, and above Alg. II is NOT required! A 4th math credit IS, but I guess I could count his pre-algebra from this year or something. This is a HUGE relief!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[razorbackmama]

Oh good.

 

Give the test and place him where he places. In the end, he needs to be successful; for some that success comes early and others...a little later, but they get there just the same.

 

Imo...It's always better not to set them up for failure.

Exactly. I'm not super surprised that he seemed to hit a wall when he hit the solving for equations - he really is NOT good at logical thinking AT ALL.

 

I just talked to him a bit ago, and he seems to think that Saxon might be a good fit for him. He thinks he needs the continual review, and he said that it will actually be refreshing to move to a different topic than the previous lesson whenever he gets hung up on a topic, THEN come back around to the troublesome topic again in the spiral. Like it is right now, if he gets stuck on a topic, he's pretty much stuck until it finally clicks (and who knows when that will happen?).

 

So I think we will go through the placement test and see his problem areas. Then find some online practice of some sort or maybe the Key To series to target those problem areas. I looked at the table of contents of Algebra 1/2, and I really think it would be a huge review - he is very proficient at most everything in it. So maybe just hitting on the weak areas and THEN starting Algebra I, he'll be good. (And hopefully he'll have some growth in his logical thinking in the meantime....)

[gingersmom]

Exactly. I'm not super surprised that he seemed to hit a wall when he hit the solving for equations - he really is NOT good at logical thinking AT ALL.

 

I just talked to him a bit ago, and he seems to think that Saxon might be a good fit for him. He thinks he needs the continual review, and he said that it will actually be refreshing to move to a different topic than the previous lesson whenever he gets hung up on a topic, THEN come back around to the troublesome topic again in the spiral. Like it is right now, if he gets stuck on a topic, he's pretty much stuck until it finally clicks (and who knows when that will happen?).

 

So I think we will go through the placement test and see his problem areas. Then find some online practice of some sort or maybe the Key To series to target those problem areas. I looked at the table of contents of Algebra 1/2, and I really think it would be a huge review - he is very proficient at most everything in it. So maybe just hitting on the weak areas and THEN starting Algebra I, he'll be good. (And hopefully he'll have some growth in his logical thinking in the meantime....)

 

My daughter went from public school, private school to homeschool. I gave her the Saxon placement test and she placed into 76. She did about 45 lessons, found her groove and went straight to 87 (without finishing 76), did beautifully and moved onto Algebra 1. She is now back in private school and doing Geometry with ease.

 

I can't imagine my son doing anything else besides Saxon. The continuous review just works for him.

[Teachin'Mine]

It sounds like 8/7 is very similar to Lial's. He can rock the basics - decimals, fractions, etc. But solving for a variable has really thrown him for a loop. Part of it is because of bad habits MUS allowed him to form (he is balking at having to keep both sides of the equation equal. For example, if the problem is 2x=14, rather than writing down 2x/2=14/2 or, at a MINIMUM, x=7, he wants to draw an arrow and then write 14/2=7. He intuitively knows what he should be doing, but he's having trouble translating it into mathematical form, since MUS never required anything even close to that.:glare: Then I think he gets everything all jumbled up in his head because he tends to try to solve it in his head first and then write out the problem, rather than writing it out and taking it step by step.

 

ANYWAY! The algebraic thinking is really challenging to him (which isn't surprising - logic is not his thing, no matter what kind of logic it is LOL).

 

So maybe we'll see...maybe he WILL surprise me!

 

Based on this, I'd be looking for a used Algebra 1/2 for him to work through during the summer just to learn their way of setting up problems. I've never seen anything quite like you're describing from MUS. Learning to set up the problems correctly and write out each step is more than half the problem solved with algebra. Would love to hear how he does on their placement test. Honestly, even if he does place into algebra, I think the Algebra 1/2 would do wonders in setting him up for success in algebra. If he tests into algebra, he definitely wouldn't need to do all the lessons, just read through and do practice problems as needed. I would suggest he do the last 30 lessons or so as that's a good way to make sure that he's mastered the more difficult concepts.

 

Regarding needing a 4th year of math, I don't know your specific requirements, but generally here I've heard that it usually needs to be for math higher than algebra 2, so the pre-algebra work probably won't qualify. But if the Advanced Math would be too much, he could do consumer math, statistics, or something else. I'd definitely recommend moving into the Ad. Math though.

 

Regarding the algebraic thinking, Saxon breaks it all down to steps which are easy to learn. The same for word problems - they teach how to convert the words into equations which can be solved. I think the new approach will help him tremendously. Can you tell I like Saxon? :lol:

[razorbackmama]

Based on this' date=' I'd be looking for a used Algebra 1/2 for him to work through during the summer just to learn their way of setting up problems. I've never seen anything quite like you're describing from MUS. Learning to set up the problems correctly and write out each step is more than half the problem solved with algebra. Would love to hear how he does on their placement test. Honestly, even if he does place into algebra, I think the Algebra 1/2 would do wonders in setting him up for success in algebra. If he tests into algebra, he definitely wouldn't need to do all the lessons, just read through and do practice problems as needed. I would suggest he do the last 30 lessons or so as that's a good way to make sure that he's mastered the more difficult concepts.[/quote']I think I tend to agree with you. Setting up the problem is half the battle with him. And then getting him to follow through on the problem rather than splitting it up into parts (that's what he learned from MUS). He struggles with language, so the word problems really mess with him, but honestly just going step by step and not drawing arrows from this part of the problem and working it over here is a problem too.:tongue_smilie:

 

Regarding needing a 4th year of math, I don't know your specific requirements, but generally here I've heard that it usually needs to be for math higher than algebra 2, so the pre-algebra work probably won't qualify. But if the Advanced Math would be too much, he could do consumer math, statistics, or something else. I'd definitely recommend moving into the Ad. Math though.

All it says is that it has to be 4 years, 3 of which are Alg. 1, Alg. 2, and geometry. I do intend for him to take a consumer math course anyway, just because I think everyone needs one, so I may count that instead. But yeah, I do plan to try to get him through advanced math if I can.

 

Regarding the algebraic thinking, Saxon breaks it all down to steps which are easy to learn. The same for word problems - they teach how to convert the words into equations which can be solved. I think the new approach will help him tremendously. Can you tell I like Saxon? :lol:

Oh, this just might be helpful. I think the lack of incremental steps may be what is causing him some grief right now. If he could just concentrate on one tiny piece at a time, master that, and move on, it might be better. Currently it's all one big SPLAT, and even though his book gives him a step-by-step on how to solve that big SPLAT, it seems to be too much at one time.

[Teachin'Mine]

It sounds like it might be just what he needs - I hope he likes it! :001_smile:

 

I don't know if this would help at all, but we've found that using graph paper is a great help for keeping things neat. The lines are the right size for working the problems, and having the graph paper right there for number lines, geometry and graphing is a great time saver and keeps the work organized. The spiral bound quad paper notebooks are awesome.

 

For learning the lesson, active participation on his part is important too. Don't let him just read through the lesson, make sure he's got paper ready and pencil - and eraser - in hand so he can work the samples himself. This really helps it to sink in and makes doing the practice problems a lot easier as he'll already have done a few together with the text.

 

Both of these are just suggestions and what we've found to work well. He may do better a different way. :001_smile:

[razorbackmama]

It sounds like it might be just what he needs - I hope he likes it! :001_smile:

 

I don't know if this would help at all' date=' but we've found that using graph paper is a great help for keeping things neat. The lines are the right size for working the problems, and having the graph paper right there for number lines, geometry and graphing is a great time saver and keeps the work organized. The spiral bound quad paper notebooks are awesome.

 

For learning the lesson, active participation on his part is important too. Don't let him just read through the lesson, make sure he's got paper ready and pencil - and eraser - in hand so he can work the samples himself. This really helps it to sink in and makes doing the practice problems a lot easier as he'll already have done a few together with the text.

 

Both of these are just suggestions and what we've found to work well. He may do better a different way. :001_smile:[/quote']

Thanks! Neatness isn't too much of a problem - he just thinks that you can break things into sections and I guess leave the rest hanging or something.:tongue_smilie::tongue_smilie::tongue_smilie: He's about halfway through the placement test, so we'll see!

[Heather in WI]

- the new Saxon Algebra I is a neat book, with more varied story problems and more conceptual explanations than the 'old' Saxon Algebra I, but requires a LOT of teacher prep

 

Ds compared the 3rd and 4th Algebra I editions on-line and really wants to use the 4th edition. Could you elaborate on the increased amount of teacher prep? This makes me nervous! (FWIW, Ds is a strong math student and only rarely requires me to explain a concept further than the text.)

[Teachin'Mine]

Thanks! Neatness isn't too much of a problem - he just thinks that you can break things into sections and I guess leave the rest hanging or something.:tongue_smilie::tongue_smilie::tongue_smilie: He's about halfway through the placement test, so we'll see!

 

Good luck to him! :)

 

Heather, I think the 4th editions were made with schools in mind as opposed to homeschooling. Some schools want the geometry as a separate text from the algebra, and that's why that edition was made - according to Saxon. Since it doesn't have geometry in there, it does stand to reason that it can go further in depth with word problems and all, but we never found the 3rd edition lacking in that. Interested to hear more about your experience with it Denise.

[razorbackmama]

The guy who does the DIVE CDs had a blog post about the 4th edition books a while back - I will try to find it....

[razorbackmama]

Found it!

 

http://drshormann.com/2012/02/08/differences-in-3rd-and-4th-edition-saxon-algebra-1/

[Deniseibase]

Ds compared the 3rd and 4th Algebra I editions on-line and really wants to use the 4th edition. Could you elaborate on the increased amount of teacher prep? This makes me nervous! (FWIW, Ds is a strong math student and only rarely requires me to explain a concept further than the text.)

 

Hi Heather! Well, I won't say that it's like the lower levels of Saxon where you just have to sit there with the student and explain everything!! :001_smile: But, there are some things that are simply NOT explained - I'm working through the book myself, I'm over halfway through, and there is nothing MAJOR missing, just little details that could be frustrating, like whether to include the median when calculating lower and upper quartiles for box-and-whisker plots. Everything I've been confused about so far, I've been able to figure out eventually, sometimes by reading between the lines and sometimes by comparing possible to the solutions manual. I get the impression that the teacher's manual has some support materials in it that are not in the homeschool package, and there are a few places - maybe 3 or 4 things so far - where it seems that would have been helpful. Plus I've found maybe a dozen errors in the solutions manual, so a student would need to have access to someone who knew enough math to be able to correct those.

 

That said, we're still going to guinea pig ourselves and use it :D I posted a long thing about it in this old thread - http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=313846 but the bottom line is, the method and material covered seem like they will work really well for MY kid. We did AoPS this year, and she did really well, but she really didn't like spending days at a time on the same topic & really wants to switch back to Saxon.

 

Hope that helps!

[Heather in WI]

The guy who does the DIVE CDs had a blog post about the 4th edition books a while back - I will try to find it....

 

Found it!

 

http://drshormann.com/2012/02/08/differences-in-3rd-and-4th-edition-saxon-algebra-1/

 

there are some things that are simply NOT explained - I'm working through the book myself, I'm over halfway through, and there is nothing MAJOR missing, ... Plus I've found maybe a dozen errors in the solutions manual, so a student would need to have access to someone who knew enough math to be able to correct those.

 

Hope that helps!

 

Thank you, both. This was very helpful! :)

[razorbackmama]

According to the placement test, he should start with 8/7.:001_huh: However, he was just 3 questions away from placing into Alg. 1/2. One of his mistakes was a careless copying error.:tongue_smilie:The majority of the rest I'm sure are due to his logic/language problems. If he were presented with those problems in real life he wouldn't understand them either and I'd have to word them 40 different ways to help him understand.:tongue_smilie:

 

So definitely I'll have him due Alg. 1/2 as soon as I can get a copy and have him do it over the summer. Should I have him do 8/7 also? He might flip out, in all honesty. How might I skip through 8/7 since I'm new to the format too? Or should I try to find different free teaching things on the internet to cover the topics he missed?

 

He missed:

converting minutes/seconds to just seconds - I think he just wasn't thinking because he knows how to do that!!!

a "how much is saved per container when you buy it by the case" problem - he told me how much was saved PER CASE, so he just didn't read the problem correctly

volume of a prism

finding the regular price of something when we know the sale price and what it's on sale for

probability

multiplying 3 mixed numbers - this is the one he copied wrong

another fraction where the word problem told him which number to have in the numerator/denominator and then to add them - not surprising that he didn't understand this since it was so wordy and he gets confused with wordy LOL

 

So I guess if we were to take away any careless errors due to him not paying attention, then he probably would have placed into Alg. 1/2....

[Teachin'Mine]

Either 8/7 or Algebra 1/2 will give him all the pre-algebra he needs to move into Algebra 1, so I wouldn't plan on doing both. Now that you have his placement test results, I'd call Saxon and ask to speak with a math teacher/adviser and ask them what they suggest. I really like 8/7, but I know the title may be a problem for your son. Ask the Saxon adviser what he/she suggests for working through the book. I'm thinking that you might well be able to do something like have him read through and work all the sample problems and practice problems in three lessons and then on the third lesson, have him complete the full lesson - 30 problems. You may even find that he can do this with 4 or 5 lessons at a time - it will depend on how much of the material is new to him. I'm thinking that a lot of the geometry will be new, learning how to set up the word problems will be new too and some of the topics you mentioned above. Let him work as long each day as he likes so he can make progress, but don't rush through at the expense of mastery as this foundation is what will make algebra just another step along. I'd really suggest giving them a call though. My suggestion would still be for 8/7.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Teachin'Mine

[razorbackmama]

Either 8/7 or Algebra 1/2 will give him all the pre-algebra he needs to move into Algebra 1' date=' so I wouldn't plan on doing both. Now that you have his placement test results, I'd call Saxon and ask to speak with a math teacher/adviser and ask them what they suggest. I really like 8/7, but I know the title may be a problem for your son. Ask the Saxon adviser what he/she suggests for working through the book. I'm thinking that you might well be able to do something like have him read through and work all the sample problems and practice problems in three lessons and then on the third lesson, have him complete the full lesson - 30 problems. You may even find that he can do this with 4 or 5 lessons at a time - it will depend on how much of the material is new to him. I'm thinking that a lot of the geometry will be new, learning how to set up the word problems will be new too and some of the topics you mentioned above. Let him work as long each day as he likes so he can make progress, but don't rush through at the expense of mastery as this foundation is what will make algebra just another step along. I'd really suggest giving them a call though. My suggestion would still be for 8/7.[/quote']Which book deals more with variables? That's where he REALLY has troubles and needs the most work. Equations like 6x+12=42 and word problems that would generate equations like that. Particularly equations like x + (5x-30) = 210 and the associated word problems. Ugh!

[Teachin'Mine]

Which book deals more with variables? That's where he REALLY has troubles and needs the most work. Equations like 6x+12=42 and word problems that would generate equations like that. Particularly equations like x + (5x-30) = 210 and the associated word problems. Ugh!

 

I don't have my 8/7 at hand, so I can't tell you if that's covered in it or not, but it really sounds more like beginning algebra. The things you mentioned which he missed on the test, getting those things down so he can do them in his sleep, that's what will lead to success in algebra. I wouldn't worry about solving for x at this point. There are LOTS of word problems in 8/7, and there may well be in algebra 1/2 also, I don't know. Again, I'd really recommend calling Saxon - they're very helpful in choosing the right text. :001_smile:

[curlylocks]

I don't know if this helps you or not...hopefully it does.

 

The new edition of 8/7 has Pre-Algebra included. Here is a link to the homeschool edition at CBD. You can view the Table of Contents and the Scope/Sequence to see what is covered:

 

http://www.christianbook.com/saxon-math-87-third-ed-student/9781591413202/pd/793206?event=CPOF#curr

 

I spoke with Art Reed about this newer edition. It is my understanding that if the student completes this book with a test average of 80% or better, they go directly to Algebra 1.

[razorbackmama]

I don't have my 8/7 at hand' date=' so I can't tell you if that's covered in it or not, but it really sounds more like beginning algebra. The things you mentioned which he missed on the test, getting those things down so he can do them in his sleep, that's what will lead to success in algebra. I wouldn't worry about solving for x at this point. There are LOTS of word problems in 8/7, and there may well be in algebra 1/2 also, I don't know. Again, I'd [i']really [/i]recommend calling Saxon - they're very helpful in choosing the right text. :001_smile:

Thanks, that makes sense. I will try to call them today. I do know that if he had not made the goofy errors that he did, he would have placed into Algebra 1/2, but maybe whizzing through 8/7 wouldn't hurt.

[razorbackmama]

I don't know if this helps you or not...hopefully it does.

 

The new edition of 8/7 has Pre-Algebra included. Here is a link to the homeschool edition at CBD. You can view the Table of Contents and the Scope/Sequence to see what is covered:

 

http://www.christianbook.com/saxon-math-87-third-ed-student/9781591413202/pd/793206?event=CPOF#curr

 

I spoke with Art Reed about this newer edition. It is my understanding that if the student completes this book with a test average of 80% or better, they go directly to Algebra 1.

Interesting! So will they be getting rid of Algebra 1/2 eventually?