WishboneDawn Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I really, really want to use this with my 9th grader. She's wary and worried that it's going to ruin the books for her (reading section by section and discussing as we go) as she hasn't read the whole trilogy yet. Is LLftLOTR something you've used with a child's first reading of the trilogy or would you let the child read the trilogy and then go back and revisit it with the program. My worry with that is that she'd be bored to death of it by the time we did LLftLOTR. Maybe let her read it and then do the second approach by listening to an audio book to refresh her memory? Not sure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 We had not read the trilogy before, although I've seen the movies so I knew the story. We didn't stick to doing everything in the study. We did not do the fill in the blanks or any writing assignments. We did the additional notes after reading, the unit studies, vocabulary and unit tests, and lots of discussion. I don't feel we've overanalyzed the books. We've had lots of fun and have enjoyed our time in Middle Earth, I don't feel like its been a stuffy study, but a rousing romp, if that makes sense. Ds has a desire to read more Tolkien after we're done, which is part of my desire when we read from authors like Tolkien. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BakersDozen Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 My 13yo and 14yo are doing this currently and they had separate reactions. My 13yo read through the entire trilogy and is now going back and doing the lessons along with reading the books again. The program didn't ruin the books for her but than the girl hasn't met a book or program she hasn't thrived on yet. My son, on the other hand, would love to just read the books and bag the learning part. He's just that way. So he is slogging through the lessons at my insistence and grudgingly learning something (maybe not much, but something). If the program ruined the books for him it's because of his attitude, not the program itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 (edited) We had listened to the Hobbit and LOTR a few years earlier on audio. The year before we did LLfLOTR, ds read The Hobbit with LL8. He had also seen parts of the movie and played the video games. He was not entirely enthusiastic about doing LLfLOTR, but he was the one who wanted to hs for high school and I was very enthusiastic about doing LLfLOTR. I've heard it's good to have an enthusiastic teacher. ;) I had a hard time reading through the books so slowly. Ds didn't have as much trouble. He also just decided to finish the reading sometime in January. Ds was never very enthusiastic about the program, but cooperated well enough. In the end, he rated it 7 on a 1-10 scale. FWIW, you may read my review here. Edited May 3, 2012 by Sue in St Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 (edited) Maybe let her read it and then do the second approach by listening to an audio book to refresh her memory? Hard question to answer... it will SOOO depend on each family, and the particular state of mind/receptiveness of the student, etc. ... But, I do think your idea here is a great one! I really, really want to use this with my 9th grader. She's wary and worried that it's going to ruin the books for her (reading section by section and discussing as we go) as she hasn't read the whole trilogy yet. To help keep it from feeling like "school" and "ruining" it, I suggest: - skipping the fill-in-the-blank vocab and comprehension questions - skipping the writing assignments - enjoy the wonderful chapter notes and discussion questions after the notes (both of which are *obviously* written by someone who LOVES the trilogy and wants to share some of the wonderful things in the books to deepen YOUR love or appreciation of the books, too! -- NOT AT ALL like a "textbook" or "boring schoolwork"!) - enjoy the the great 12 additional units of material (these are quite fascinating, each on different topics and again, not "school textbook-y" at all -- they cover things like Tolkien and his love of languages and how he created the Elvish languages (and an encouragement to students to try their own hand at creating a language!), to why the fantasy genre is important, to learning about the Beowulf and King Arthur influences on Tolkien, which then influenced some of the cultures in Lord of the Rings...) - and most of all: whatever portions and readings (or book on tape) that you DO decide to do -- do it ALL together; make it a wonderful bonding time, and special memory-making event -- either just a mom-and-daughter thing, OR a family thing by bringing along your 10yo son! :) Is LLftLOTR something you've used with a child's first reading of the trilogy or would you let the child read the trilogy and then go back and revisit it with the program. My worry with that is that she'd be bored to death of it by the time we did LLftLOTR. Alas, I really can't advise about pre-reading vs. waiting to read, as we had read the trilogy at least 3 times out loud as a family over the years prior to doing LLftLotR, and one of the DSs had read it on his own, as well. Both DSs would say that they loved doing LLftLotR, and that it was one of their all-time favorite things we did while homeschooling. But... they obviously had very high interest in the source material to begin with! ;) I will add that rather than being bored by already "knowing the story", both DSs really enjoyed the added depth brought out in the chapter notes, AND, LLftLotR also made both DSs very excited to read the full versions of Beowulf and Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (3 of the 12 units analyze excerpts from these works), and even though neither DS likes poetry, they enjoyed the unit on Tolkien's poetry. Don't know if this will help, but here's how we did it: Sunday (sometimes Monday) nights = read aloud the 2 chapters for the week Monday and Tuesday during school hours = read the chapter notes and do discussion questions for those 2 chapters Wednesday or Thursday during school hours = read a little of one of the 12 units (if we were really getting "into" a unit, we might read/finish it in 3 days) Friday = ----- Since the program is scheduled over 36 weeks, you want to roughly cover 1 unit every 3 weeks; as I mentioned above, sometimes it would take us 3 weeks, sometimes we would finish a unit in 3 days, and then have extra time for other things for 2 weeks until we needed to start another unit. We also did the units slightly out of order, to be able to match up with other things we were doing. For example, there is a unit on "The 11 Conventions of an Epic" -- in other words, what things show up in most epics. Since the year we were doing LLftLotR we were also doing Ancients, and a number of those works were epics, we started with that unit from LLtfLotR -- which also gave us the ability to compare ancient epics with a modern fantasy epic. :) We then got back on track and went in order, only deviating so we could cover the Beowulf units about the same time we reached the section in the trilogy that introduces the Riders of Rohan -- since that culture closely resembles the Beowulf culture, we read those 2 units then. Same with the Arthurian unit -- the culture of Gondor late in the trilogy somewhat resembles King Arthur and knightly culture. As you can see, the program is flexible, so if there is something your DD would really enjoy in those 12 units -- start off with that, and capture her interest right away! :) So, there you go... our experience, FWIW! BEST of luck, whatever you decide, and may both you and your DD have a wonderful journey through Middle Earth! :) Warmest regards, Lori D. Edited May 4, 2012 by Lori D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennW in SoCal Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 To help keep it from feeling like "school" and "ruining" it, I suggest: - skipping the fill-in-the-blank vocab and comprehension questions - skipping the writing assignents - enjoy the wonderful chapter notes and discussion questions after the notes (both of which are *obviously* written by someone who LOVES the trilogy and wants to share some of the wonderful things in the books to deepen YOUR love or appreciation of the books, too! -- NOT AT ALL like a "textbook" or "boring schoolwork"!) - enjoy the the great 12 additional units of material (these are quite fascinating, each on different topics and again, not "school textbook-y" at all -- they cover things like Tolkien and his love of languages and how he created the Elvish languages (and an encouragement to students to try their own hand at creating a language!), to why the fantasy genre is important, to learning about the Beowulf and King Arthur influences on Tolkien, which then influenced some of the cultures in Lord of the Rings...) - and most of all: whatever portions and readings (or book on tape) that you DO decide to do -- do it ALL together; make it a wonderful bonding time, and special memory-making event -- either just a mom-and-daughter thing, OR a family thing by bringing along your 10yo son! :) :iagree::iagree::iagree: We completely skipped all the fill in the blank work sheets, but enjoyed the chapter notes. The unit studies really bring the trilogy to life. Studying Beowulf prior to reading the 2nd in the trilogy, The Two Towers, helped me to appreciate what had always been my least favorite in the LotR. Studying Sir Gawain and the Green Knight was important to fathoming a random section in the 3rd book. It was a re-read for both of us. My ds loves the Hobbit but isn't in love with LotR. We took our time with the study, spreading it out over the school year, but we'd read aloud together, or listen together to an audio book to several chapters at a time, then sit down to go over the chapter notes and have a discussion. We also watched some of the extras on the extended version DVDs, such as the discussions by the screen writers of how they adapted the story and the decisions they made. It made for a nice wrap up of each book. I wouldn't have your dd pre-read it before the study if she hasn't read it before. That isn't necessary, and if she doesn't LOVE it, it will become boring having to re-read it. I found several of the lectures from the Teaching Company's series, Western Literary Canon in Context, to be very useful in this study. Check if your library has it or if you can get if for cheap unless you think you'd use it for later English courses (which is what I did). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Togo Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Not the op, but thanks everyone for the wonderful ideas. We're starting this during the summer, so I am beginning to go through the material, decide on translations for full versions since we plan to do those, etc. Lori, can you provide a list of modern fantasy epics? That sounds like a fun rabbit trail. 1togo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 (edited) can you provide a list of modern fantasy epics I'll define my terms: "modern" = written since 1900 "fantasy" = genre of fiction that commonly uses magic, talking animals, etc., as a primary element of plot, theme, or setting and is a common and natural part of that created world "epic" = work that creates an entire world, with a hero figure (or group) on a quest, with the success/failure of the quest determining future outcome for whole peoples/nations; can be a single book; does not have to be a multi-volume work. Fantasy Epic Ideas: - Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH by Robert O'Brien (grade 5+) - The Great and Terrible Quest by Margaret Lovett (grade 7+) - Watership Down by Richard Adams (grade 8+) (There is also a companion "Tales from Watership Down", but these are short stories, myths, songs, etc. meant as interesting supplement to the world -- they are not part of the epic.) - Earthsea trilogy by Ursula LeGuin (grade 9+) 1 = Wizard of Earthsea; 2 = Tombs of Atuan; 3 = The Farthest Shore (There is a 4th book written many years later, Tehanu, but I do NOT recommend it for youth -- very different in tone and subject matter, with ADULT themes; the 5th book is Tales from Earthsea, which are interesting supplement/short stories, but are not crucial to the epic; there is now a recent 6th book, The Other Wind, which looks like it picks up from the 4th book, so that one may also be more adult-oriented.) Each book can be read as a stand-alone work. - Children of Hurin by JRR Tolkien (grade 10+) Single book; beautiful but tragic; feels much like a blend of Beowulf and ancient Greek epics. - Auralia Thread series by Jeffrey Overstreet (grade 10+) 1 = Auralia's Colors; 2 = Cyndere's Midnight; 3 = Raven's Ladder; 4 = Aleboy's Feast For a fun "mock epic": - Farmer Giles of Ham (Tolkien) - Bromeliad Trilogy: Truckers, Diggers, Wings (Pratchett) More ideas below. (Although at the risk of having to duck tomatoes, these are not as well-written -- and by that, I mean that most of what is there is "on the surface", without the depth of theme, strength of writing, complex development of world, etc.) I tried to think of works appropriate to middle school and up; Eragon series has more mature scenes/themes in the later books, so preview. - Harry Potter 7 book series (Rowling) - Percy Jackson and the Olympian 5 book series (Riordan) - Belgariad trilogy (Eddington) - Eragon 4 book cycle (Paolini) - Greensky trilogy: Below the Root; And All Between; Until the Celebration (Snyder) -- very well written books 1 and 2; the 3rd book really falls short in the same level and quality, and so I placed it in this list, rather than above; also this one borders sci-fi utopian/dystopian works so closely, you may prefer to place in that category rather than traditional fantasy epic... Hope that is a help to get you started! Warmest regards, Lori D. Edited May 4, 2012 by Lori D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curriculumhoarder Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 For those who've done the LOtR lit study - would it be overkill with One Year Adventure Novel? My 13yo loves LOTR and I think would greatly enjoy the extra info as she's already read several books about LOTR (and HP) that explain the various myths, themes, etc in those books. Could she do it independently? She reads a lot faster than I do, and I'm afraid she'd be waiting on me all the time. She read the trilogy in less than 48 hours the first time at about age 9. We would skip the questions and writing (OYAN will cover writing). I think LOTR with OYAN would make a fun 8th grade year, but really have no idea on if that's too much. She'll also be doing Core 6/G from SL with some of D level TOG books (no worksheets). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted May 4, 2012 Author Share Posted May 4, 2012 Thanks to all who've replied, This has given me an enourmous amount of stuff to mull over and has been really helpful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Togo Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 (edited) Lori, As always, wonderful ideas and list! Thank you so much. 1togo Edited May 5, 2012 by 1Togo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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