jeninok Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 My DS will be 11in June, he loves science and legos and lots of things that are math in disguise, but frankly he is awful at actual math and we are really struggling to figure out where to go. We are using Math Mammoth fractions 1 along with a ton of whiteboard, worksheets and games to review math facts and work on division. I like the look and concept of Math Mammoth, but in practice I'm not sure it is really the right choice. I have heard good things about CLE and have even considered going way back in the miquon books to remediate and undo the damage done by the PS math program. I also signed up for Dream box and we are going to start that way back in the early lessons. Even if he thinks it is too easy he could really use the review. I am also not mathy although I comfortable teaching it through algebra 1 as long as the program is easy to follow. I want mastery with review, simple layout that isnt visually cluttered but still appealing , and easy to start midstream with remedation but not too babyish. Does this exist??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyofsixreboot Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 I have one who would say he dislikes math but likes legos, etc. CLE has worked well for him. He needs the review. It also teaches things incrementally which helps him. Have your take the placement test though. CLE is ahead of some programs. One or two Light Units would be very inexpensive to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamblessed Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 We tried Teaching Textbooks this year and my 10 yo finally feels like he is suceeding in math. The best part is that TT does all the teaching and correcting-I just help if he really gets stuck :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeninok Posted April 24, 2012 Author Share Posted April 24, 2012 I have heard good things about TT but frankly he tends to hate the computer teaching him. He has to turn the volume way Down on Dreambox and dancemat typing incited full blow temper tantrums Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 What is it about MM that doesn't appeal to you? We have used MM 4 this year and will use MM 5 next year. It has been fantastic at filling in Miss P's ps induced math holes, which were considerable. We are using the light blue full curriculum. Not trying to push what works for us, just curious why you felt it wasn't the right choice. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeninok Posted April 24, 2012 Author Share Posted April 24, 2012 He seems to have a tendency to just get stuck with it. I like the way she uses visuals to introduce ideas, but there doesnt seem to be enough review, or actual instructions when moving from the basic concept to something more complicated. for example this last week it went from introducing mixed numbers straight to adding them and having them equal more than than a whole number so he had to convert them to an improper fraction and back again. I am pretty sure most kids would be able to make that leap, but he cannot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 That makes sense. Actually, I deeply get it after what happened here yesterday! With fractions, too, in MM 4B. While I have mostly been really happy with the incremental teaching in MM, in this case she had the student comparing fractions with unlike numerators and denominators, but since she hadn't yet introduced the concept of common denominators, it was really hard to figure out. You were supposed to draw pictures to help you "see" the answer, but Miss P's ability to draw equal-sized sections in a circle was not up to the task! We ended up shutting the book, she got so frustrated and melty with it. After sleeping on it, I decided to just teach her how to find common denominators (I mean teach it conceptually, not just as a "trick" to memorize), which I did, she got, and loved, and now she can do the comparison problems easily. Which leads me back around to your situation (sorry for thinking out loud here!). I got the Kitchen Table Math Vol II book to help me through exactly this kind of situation - when the teaching in MM isn't enough, or dd just isn't getting it. KTM teaches the teacher how to teach - and while I don't have to refer to it much, in the cases where Miss P just isn't getting it, or when I think the MM explanation wasn't adequate, it has been invaluable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeninok Posted April 24, 2012 Author Share Posted April 24, 2012 We have taken a step back from the book and have been practing converting mixed to improper and back again, and also equivalent fractions and reviewing adding them together. I also ordered a set of cuisinnere rods and plastic fraction pies, I figure they will come in handy for at least another year or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeninok Posted April 24, 2012 Author Share Posted April 24, 2012 Another thing I am considering is taking a huge step back working through 2nd and 3rd grade math in that program over the summer then starting at the 4th grade level again in the fall. The math at his ps has practically ruined his confidence and understanding of numbers. I think with his challenges jumping in at his current level might be wrong no matter what the program is. If it makes any difference the one thing he really excelled with and enjoyed at school was shurley English. I also downloaded Math Magic from NCERT. I am thinking something like that on the side might help him see the point of math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 These have helped us: http://www.khanacademy.org/search?page_search_query=singapore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Another thing I am considering is taking a huge step back working through 2nd and 3rd grade math in that program over the summer then starting at the 4th grade level again in the fall. The math at his ps has practically ruined his confidence and understanding of numbers. I think with his challenges jumping in at his current level might be wrong no matter what the program is. If you mean MM, this is exactly what I did with Miss P after pulling her out of ps 4th grade at the end of October. Her confidence and love of math was shot after the first quarter of 4th grade. We started at the beginning of MM 4A, but a lot of the mental math and more conceptual stuff was way too much for her - she had computation down, but no idea why anything worked. So, we worked through MM 4 page by page, and any time it was too hard/overwhelming, I would back up and use the grade 2 or grade 3 worksheet on that topic, and work through it first till she had it down, then go back to MM4. It took *forever* to get through the first chapter, but it was completely worth it. She is now on track to finish 4B by June, and she loves and understands math again! It has been a huge transformation in a few short months. Another thing that has helped her "come back" to liking and getting math is Life of Fred. We've gone through almost the whole elementary series (we're in Honey) and today she asked me if she could start Fractions independently. If you told me a few months ago that she'd ask to do more math, and independently, I would never have believed it. But she loves Fred, it has made math fun for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 There are lots of possibilities... I think the "Key to..." series is very good for focusing on one topic. It's slow and gentle and pretty independent. My 10 yr old daughter uses it periodically and I've used it successfully with kids needing remediation in high school, so it's not babyish at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeninok Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 I have looked at the LOF books and I can't decide if Ds would love them or if they would make him cry. Seriously today we had a 3rd lesson on converting improper fractions to mixed numbers and back again, there might as well have been smoke coming out of his ears. He just isn't getting it, at all! He keeps saying he understands, but then can't do it on his own more than once. We talked a lot this week about how when I ask if he understands I am not looking for him to be right or wrong, I really want and need to know. Because if he doesn't get it, that is my fault, I need to teach it better. :tongue_smilie: We are going to play with the MathMagic book for the next few weeks while continuing to do our multiplication and division review. Maybe that will help him see that math does apply to life in a daily way. He did play dreambox for about 45 minutes today and it was reviewing multiplication on a number line. If I can keep him doing that, and get him to go to much earlier lessons, even if they seem easy, maybe it will help. They had a stupid discovery based math program at school, and taught them all sorts of useless stuff like just shouting out numbers until you got it right, and lattice multiplication while discouraging the regular way, and a totally bizarre way of long division that I can't make any sense of at all. Not to mention all the drawing of squares and cubes and lines for basic arithmetic they should have mastered in 1st or 2nd grade. I understand the purpose of some of it, but without a solid foundation of the basic easy to see methods, all of that "playing" with math only served to totally confuse him. He really wants to do chemisty in science, and I am worried how that will go, even at this age, without better math skills, but maybe it will motivate him to work more at math. He also has some issues with executive function and working memory, so I feel like CLE, or maybe even saxon would work for him. I have looked through MEP as well, since everyone says it fosters really deep understanding of math, frankly I can't make sense of it. Miquon supposedly does this as well, though I have been told it is hard to switch mid stream. But if we go back to 1st or 2nd grade and power through it to build speed, confidence, and mastery it would negate that problem. Sorry this is so long, we pulled him in January and have done pretty well in the other subjects, and I am happy with my choices for next year, other than Math which is really stressing me out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) I don't know what Math U See fractions level (epsilon) is like, since we aren't there, and may not do it if my son gets fractions via Life of Fred this summer, but that might be something to try since the manipulatives resemble Legos, and from what I have seen it tends to be incremental without jumps like you describe...but maybe if you consider that you could post and someone who has done that level of MUS could tell you specifically. I wish I had learned about MUS earlier than I did, because it has been very helpful for my son who has dyslexia-ish issues and needed an uncluttered page layout. It has also pleased me that it started introducing ideas from algebra right along with multiplication. (possibly with addition and subtraction, but we didn't have MUS yet back then). Also, what about Key to Fractions? I am not sure how incremental that is. If you do try Life of Fred, I'd suggest going back to a level at which your son feels confident (even if that is Apples) and working forward, rather than starting at the potentially likely to lead to tears level. Edited April 25, 2012 by Pen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) Also to add: Earlier this month I learned that fractions would be a main thing on my son's mandated state testing, but it had not yet been in our curriculum to speak of. My son already knew some about fractions from cooking and baking, so I showed some more using several measuring cups and water--a colored liquid might have been visually even better. Maybe something like that could help you as much or more as a specific book type curriculum. If you have several measuring cups (or at least can transfer liquids to another container), especially if at least one is say at least 2 cup size, you can show something like 3 half cups and see that 3/2 is the same as 1 1/2 in a pretty visual way. Edited April 25, 2012 by Pen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeninok Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) We actually did that some tonight, and I plan to double a recipe tomorrow night for cookies. He gets what the pieces mean and stand for, it is the process of converting them that is just not clicking. He is struggling with fractions right now, but honestly I think the problem is deeper than I previously realized. The only option I see is going waaaaaaay back and starting fresh with a better program and at his speed of understanding. The program they were using jumped around so much, that they never really mastered anything, much less understood at all how it all tied together. I just don't know what curriculum to use. I am really new at all of this, and math is my weak spot to begin with. I can look at a LA or history program and immediately get a feel for whether or not it will work, math not so much! Edited April 25, 2012 by jeninok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) We actually did that some tonight, and I plan to double a recipe tomorrow night for cookies. He gets what the pieces mean and stand for, it is the process of converting them that is just not clicking. He is struggling with fractions right now, but honestly I think the problem is deeper than I previously realized. The only option I see is going waaaaaaay back and starting fresh with a better program and at his speed of understanding. The program they were using jumped around so much, that they never really mastered anything, much less understood at all how it all tied together. I just don't know what curriculum to use. I am really new at all of this, and math is my weak spot to begin with. I can look at a LA or history program and immediately get a feel for whether or not it will work, math not so much! I suggest that you go back and at least review multiplication and division, or maybe as you say, go back and review even 2nd grade level math. Take a look at MUS. It is very "mastery" and does not jump around. It also lends itself to making progress as quickly as the child is able to move forward, you use as many of the problem pages as you need, and go on when ready (with extra pages in the "test" sheets part and review available at their website, if needed...the review drill at the website is open to anyone.) Take a look at Math in Focus--it is a Singapore type math program with a lot of hand-holding, but is less "mastery" than MUS. Maybe it would be helpful to get something like Hands on Equations (in addition, or as a break from the regular math), which is algebra for kids, which would review some basic processes along with introducing algebra in a hands on way, and maybe that would help get beyond the tears to where math can seem fun and chemistry can seem like a reasonable goal. Also, speaking of chemistry, maybe test tubes or beakers, or pictures thereof could be a way to show the fractions in a more interesting way than kitchen supplies. Edited April 25, 2012 by Pen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeBlessings Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I don't think there's anything wrong with the idea of going back to Miquon and seeing if it helps. I haven't used CLE so I can't comment on that. I have used Miquon, Singapore, Math Mammoth, MEP, and Lial's BCM. I loved Miquon and Singapore. Math Mammoth I wanted to love, even bought quite a lot of them. It just didn't go over well here. MEP is nice and different. I think it would probably be best if used from near the beginning though. Lial's is what we are suing this year as prep for Pre-Algebra, just so I can see all our bases are covered before moving on. I really like mastery based Math, but I do find constant review necessary and I've tried quite a few combinations. Using two or more curricula was just too time consuming. I wrote a blog post about how I incorporate review for free in about 15 minutes per day, using resources from the web. This is going much better than using multiple curricula. It's simple, easy, and effective. My best advice is once he seems to grasp a concept, keep at it. Don't let much time elapse without reviewing the topic. Even if you are reviewing up to 10 topics every day, if you are only assigning 1-2 problems per topic, it wouldn't take much time. If you do this while going way back in your curriculum of choice it should build confidence too, hopefully without much frustration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I do like LOF fractions and decimals a lot, but I don't think it would be a good fit for your son right now. It's makes lots of leaps... While it is great for supplementing, it would be tricky to use as an introduction to a topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I do like LOF fractions and decimals a lot, but I don't think it would be a good fit for your son right now. It's makes lots of leaps... While it is great for supplementing, it would be tricky to use as an introduction to a topic. :iagree: But the elementary books might be just what he needs to relax and enjoy math. *If* he likes them, this is one of those programs that kids (and parents) seem to either love or hate. It might be worth trying 1 of the elementary books to see if he "clicks" with it. It really focuses on the concepts and understanding the meaning behind the math; computation is minimal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeninok Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 We have been doing lots of multiplication and division review, using the whiteboard, math bingo, worksheets, dreambox, etc etc. He gets it, he is just painfully slow. He just hates math, hefeels like it is confusing and pointless, and that he can't do it. This is a direct result of the frantic, overwhelming program they used at school. It was bright and busy and colorful in order to "engage" the kids, but with no understanding of how an eye travels over the page, and it bordered way too much on being fuzzy math, with no real mastery before moving on, they just said if they didn't really understanding this time around, they would next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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