If you are waffling on whether or not to continue WWE next year...

[ByGrace3]

Seriously take a look at WWS. I know this may not be big news to many of you, but I have been really debating continuing with WWE 2 and as I looked at several different writing curricula I kept coming back to the simplicity of WWE. Then I took a look at WWS. Amazing! If 4 years of WWE prep my dc to accomplish WWS, I am in. It was eye opening and encouraging to be able to see where we are going.

 

Not saying WWE is for everyone, but thought someone else might be like me! :tongue_smilie:

[NorCalMom]

I waffled....and then got a good look at WWS also. I had bought and sold 2 levels WWE 3 years ago. I decided to start ds in WWE this year after I saw WWS. And now, I'm going backwards with dd to catch her up in WW4 to get her ready for WWS. Poor thing...she said, "I'm switching writing again?!" So sorry, baby girl! :lol:

[boscopup]

Yes, a lot of what people expect to be in WWE is in WWS. While I will be using something else alongside WWE next year, I definitely plan to use WWS. That is my main goal at the moment - WWS in 5th or 6th grade.

[ByGrace3]

I waffled....and then got a good look at WWS also. I had bought and sold 2 levels WWE 3 years ago. I decided to start ds in WWE this year after I saw WWS. And now, I'm going backwards with dd to catch her up in WW4 to get her ready for WWS. Poor thing...she said, "I'm switching writing again?!" So sorry, baby girl! :lol:

 

:lol: I hear ya. I have hard time with deciding, but thankfully dd is finishing up first so we haven't had much time to switch...yet! :tongue_smilie:

 

I think WWE is sometimes hard to see the big picture, and it is easy for me to think we need more/different. Using WWE and narrations in history and science, dd doesn't do any original writing. While I get it, it makes me wonder still. However, I was encouraged last week when dd wrote a card to someone with complete sentences, proper spelling with little help, and correct capitalization and punctuation. I guess it works! :lol: the sample and toc for WWS really helped see where we are going.

[daughterofsarah77]

Totally thinking this exact thing! We did WWE last year and earlier this year, and dropped it. But now I am dissatisfied with SL LA, and am looking for a writing curriculum again:001_huh: and looked at WWS. And I love it! I think we may stay on the SWB track.

It's funny how, after a few years, I am going back to the "simple things"...they work! I feel like I try to find something more impressive in some way and it just complicates everything!

[black_midori]

Is it the actual WWE workbooks that you would think are an ideal lead-in to WWS, or is it just the style?

 

If we could learn to use the WWE style of copywork, narration, dictation, comprehension questions in other things, do you think that provides the right sort of set-up? There is a WWE manual that is supposed to just have you do the appropriate steps with your own books, right? I like that idea, but just don't have the ooomph to create a full blend of questions, copywork assignments, etc on my own at this point.

 

I like WWE and have used level 1 & 2, but for next school year I was planning on switching to something else. The main reason is that I will have 4 kids in 3 different levels, and I can't picture finding time to do WWE workbooks separately. A secondary reason is that we would really like to COMPLETE a book - not just continue to read small snippets of books. They generally like the books given in the passages, but find it hard to just read a little bit & move on.

 

I looked into Sonlight - I don't like the LA part, but from the samples it appeared that you follow the same basic guided steps for the readers as you would using WWE. I saw comprehension questions, copywork, and narration (I think), and dictation would be easy to add if it isn't there. I had thought it seemed like a similar approach to WWE (barring the grammar, which I would NOT be using), and was excited that it used readers that I loved, appeared to go all the way through the readers, and I could probably use it across grade-levels (with some adjustments - I know each grade has different readers, so I'm not sure how I would end up doing this). I guess the readers are supposed to be read by the child, though, which would be different (so far in WWE I have read all the passages - does that change as you move up?).

 

Any thoughts on this? Can someone who has used both WWE & Sonlight chime in and tell me the differences? :)

[ByGrace3]

Is it the actual WWE workbooks that you would think are an ideal lead-in to WWS, or is it just the style?

 

If we could learn to use the WWE style of copywork, narration, dictation, comprehension questions in other things, do you think that provides the right sort of set-up? There is a WWE manual that is supposed to just have you do the appropriate steps with your own books, right? I like that idea, but just don't have the ooomph to create a full blend of questions, copywork assignments, etc on my own at this point.

 

I like WWE and have used level 1 & 2, but for next school year I was planning on switching to something else. The main reason is that I will have 4 kids in 3 different levels, and I can't picture finding time to do WWE workbooks separately. A secondary reason is that we would really like to COMPLETE a book - not just continue to read small snippets of books. They generally like the books given in the passages, but find it hard to just read a little bit & move on.

 

I looked into Sonlight - I don't like the LA part, but from the samples it appeared that you follow the same basic guided steps for the readers as you would using WWE. I saw comprehension questions, copywork, and narration (I think), and dictation would be easy to add if it isn't there. I had thought it seemed like a similar approach to WWE (barring the grammar, which I would NOT be using), and was excited that it used readers that I loved, appeared to go all the way through the readers, and I could probably use it across grade-levels (with some adjustments - I know each grade has different readers, so I'm not sure how I would end up doing this). I guess the readers are supposed to be read by the child, though, which would be different (so far in WWE I have read all the passages - does that change as you move up?).

 

Any thoughts on this? Can someone who has used both WWE & Sonlight chime in and tell me the differences? :)

 

I think if you do WTM writing either through the WWE workbook or following the Complete Writer, you should end up in the same place.

 

I cannot really answer about SL's LA. I have not heard much good about it, although I am always tempted by it because I would love to have LA tie into what we are already reading. I am considering doing the WWE text next year for this since we are using SL, but honestly I just don't think I will have the time to pull it off. I do think in WWE 3 maybe? the student starts reading the text.

 

As far as the copywork and narrations from SL, the one problem I would see is that the copywork and narrations being from the readers might not be the same caliber of classic literature you get from WWE, especially in the early reader packages.

 

I plan to take a further look at the SL LA when I am at convention in a few weeks though. :)

[caelia]

A secondary reason is that we would really like to COMPLETE a book - not just continue to read small snippets of books. They generally like the books given in the passages, but find it hard to just read a little bit & move on.

 

This is actually one of my favorite things about WWE. The little snippets of books have proven to get my son interested in the stories. They inevitably end with a cliff hanger and then he wants to read the whole book. He chooses a lot of his independent reading books this way.

[TheAutumnOak]

Totally thinking this exact thing! We did WWE last year and earlier this year, and dropped it. But now I am dissatisfied with SL LA, and am looking for a writing curriculum again:001_huh: and looked at WWS. And I love it! I think we may stay on the SWB track.

It's funny how, after a few years, I am going back to the "simple things"...they work! I feel like I try to find something more impressive in some way and it just complicates everything!

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree: This is true for so many things, not just WWE!...That simple statement sums up how I have been feeling about everything!

[ByGrace3]

This is actually one of my favorite things about WWE. The little snippets of books have proven to get my son interested in the stories. They inevitably end with a cliff hanger and then he wants to read the whole book. He chooses a lot of his independent reading books this way.

 

:iagree: We just read the passages from Socks which we have on the shelf for next year and dd is begging to read it! Love it! We have certainly been exposed to much literature we would otherwise not have been.

[Dinsfamily]

This is timely for me :) I just wrote a blog post about this just today. I really like WWE but was always planning on using WT afterwards. In fact, I only started WWE to pass the time until D-Man was ready for WT. Now that WWS is out, it changes everything. The problem is that I'm having trouble letting go of WT. If all 4 levels of WT were out, that would be one thing but WWS just makes too much sense. I'm off to look at the samples again (which I really liked the first time through).

 

 

I am considering doing the WWE text next year for this since we are using SL, but honestly I just don't think I will have the time to pull it off. I do think in WWE 3 maybe? the student starts reading the text.

 

 

I did this last year using Core A/B read alouds for WWE1. It worked well as SWB is pretty detailed in the text. It did take a lot of time trying to find passages that lined up with her focus for each week. This year, I decided to just buy the WWE2 PDF and be done with it. I also bought the WWE1 PDF for Sweet-C since he'll be ready for it soon. The funny thing about the WWE2 passages is that we've read a lot of them through our SL cores over the last 3 years. We'll probably be able to fit in the others sometime this year.

[ErinE]

If we could learn to use the WWE style of copywork, narration, dictation, comprehension questions in other things, do you think that provides the right sort of set-up? There is a WWE manual that is supposed to just have you do the appropriate steps with your own books, right? I like that idea, but just don't have the ooomph to create a full blend of questions, copywork assignments, etc on my own at this point.

 

I just wanted to address this part of your post. Doing WWE style on your own is not difficult. We read aloud history and science together and as we're reading, I come up with a few questions to ask him and determine what style of narration is expected. Especially for levels 1 & 2, WWE-style narration is very much, "Tell me what your remember about this passage." I either write down the narration for my child or he writes it out on his own while I use a lap white board to dictate the sentences if he needs prompting.

 

For copywork and dictation, I have small sticky notes that I place next to sentences as we're reading. For copywork, I usually quickly select a sentence and copy it down before we're finished with the passage, adapting the sentence to dd's writing level. For dictation, I go back and select the sentence(s) I'm using. If there's new punctuation or spelling, I have ds review the sentence before I begin. After he's written it, we discuss any writing conventions, usually whatever's being covered in grammar that week. But it can also be unusual punctuation, like the hyphen, colon, or the Oxford comma or a sentence I find particularly beautiful. When I was reading aloud Charlotte's Web, I spent a lot of time dictating the sentences.

 

From ds9, I also require a literature narration whenever he finishes an assigned book. I write these, but guide ds through a good narration.

 

None of the writing activities are planned out beforehand, other than following The Complete Writer's recommendations. I created a table showing the weekly assignments for each level and refer to it when making the dc's weekly planners.

 

This sounds far more complex than reality. Using the Complete Writer has helped us create a more writing focused education. Writing isn't a separate subject, to be done independent of the rest of schoolwork. Since it's incorporated into science, history, and literature, it gets done everyday.

[Mama2two]

This post is very timely for me. I am struggling with WWE as I posted in another forum, because of my son's spelling ability. I hadn't looked at WWS, but now that I have I think I will continue....

[3peasinapod]

Is it the actual WWE workbooks that you would think are an ideal lead-in to WWS, or is it just the style?

 

If we could learn to use the WWE style of copywork, narration, dictation, comprehension questions in other things, do you think that provides the right sort of set-up? There is a WWE manual that is supposed to just have you do the appropriate steps with your own books, right? I like that idea, but just don't have the ooomph to create a full blend of questions, copywork assignments, etc on my own at this point.

 

I like WWE and have used level 1 & 2, but for next school year I was planning on switching to something else. The main reason is that I will have 4 kids in 3 different levels, and I can't picture finding time to do WWE workbooks separately. A secondary reason is that we would really like to COMPLETE a book - not just continue to read small snippets of books. They generally like the books given in the passages, but find it hard to just read a little bit & move on.

 

I looked into Sonlight - I don't like the LA part, but from the samples it appeared that you follow the same basic guided steps for the readers as you would using WWE. I saw comprehension questions, copywork, and narration (I think), and dictation would be easy to add if it isn't there. I had thought it seemed like a similar approach to WWE (barring the grammar, which I would NOT be using), and was excited that it used readers that I loved, appeared to go all the way through the readers, and I could probably use it across grade-levels (with some adjustments - I know each grade has different readers, so I'm not sure how I would end up doing this). I guess the readers are supposed to be read by the child, though, which would be different (so far in WWE I have read all the passages - does that change as you move up?).

 

Any thoughts on this? Can someone who has used both WWE & Sonlight chime in and tell me the differences? :)

 

I wondered the exact same thing about SL writing (not grammar) and WWE. Looking through the samples of SL, the writing portion seems to be similar to WWE, but I'm not sure if SL has as much punch as WWS has. It seems to just continue with the same sorts of assignments. WWS seems to be more heavily composition in nature, while SL is more heavy on the creative side. I have not used SL, though, so can't say for sure. I would love to hear other opinions also. I have toyed with the idea of forging ahead on my own, using WWE style with the SL books and using the SL LA as a sort of guide for sentences, but it sounds too complicated right now. :001_huh:

[materursa]

None of the writing activities are planned out beforehand, other than following The Complete Writer's recommendations. I created a table showing the weekly assignments for each level and refer to it when making the dc's weekly planners.

 

 

Erin,

So I am understanding correctly that you just use The Complete Writer book and not the WWE workbooks?

Thanks!

[ErinE]

Erin,

So I am understanding correctly that you just use The Complete Writer book and not the WWE workbooks?

Thanks!

 

I bought WWE3 and The Complete Writer at the same time. The WWE workbooks are the grammar stage for SWB's The Complete Writer philosophy. We used WWE3 for several months, but every day after spelling, Spanish, grammar, reading, history, science, etc. I put everything aside and said, "Now, let's do writing" which didn't make sense to me. I didn't like the disconnect between dc's other subjects and writing. In real life, we write to serve a purpose: communicate, summarize, tell a story, or any number of ways to convey information. Rarely, do we write just to write (except in creative writing courses). Writing as a separate subject became one more "to do" in my children's school day.

 

That isn't to say I don't like WWE. I think it is a great program and really helpful if you're uncertain about how to start or would just like the guidance SWB provides. Who wouldn't want SWB in your house teaching your children how to write? Plus, the passages introduced new books to my son's reading list.

 

I just wanted to address the continual angst I see over writing on the boards. Writing shouldn't be hard in the grammar stage. Every day, pick one subject the child should write about and have them do a writing activity. Adapt it to their level. Ideally, going into the logic stage, he or she will be writing paragraphs. My views on grammar stage writing are a twist on Michael Pollan's "Omnivore's Dilemma" quote:

 

Learn something new. Write about it. Don't write too much.

[Jennay]

I think if you do WTM writing either through the WWE workbook or following the Complete Writer, you should end up in the same place.

 

I cannot really answer about SL's LA. I have not heard much good about it, although I am always tempted by it because I would love to have LA tie into what we are already reading. I am considering doing the WWE text next year for this since we are using SL, but honestly I just don't think I will have the time to pull it off. I do think in WWE 3 maybe? the student starts reading the text.

 

As far as the copywork and narrations from SL, the one problem I would see is that the copywork and narrations being from the readers might not be the same caliber of classic literature you get from WWE, especially in the early reader packages.

 

I plan to take a further look at the SL LA when I am at convention in a few weeks though. :)

 

Yes, the caliber of the copywork/dictation passages is definitely better in the WWE workbooks.

 

This is timely for me :) I just wrote a blog post about this just today. I really like WWE but was always planning on using WT afterwards. In fact, I only started WWE to pass the time until D-Man was ready for WT. Now that WWS is out, it changes everything. The problem is that I'm having trouble letting go of WT. If all 4 levels of WT were out, that would be one thing but WWS just makes too much sense. I'm off to look at the samples again (which I really liked the first time through).

 

 

 

I did this last year using Core A/B read alouds for WWE1. It worked well as SWB is pretty detailed in the text. It did take a lot of time trying to find passages that lined up with her focus for each week. This year, I decided to just buy the WWE2 PDF and be done with it. I also bought the WWE1 PDF for Sweet-C since he'll be ready for it soon. The funny thing about the WWE2 passages is that we've read a lot of them through our SL cores over the last 3 years. We'll probably be able to fit in the others sometime this year.

 

I've used Workbooks 2 and 3 and there is somewhat of an overlap. But now that I know what I am doing I hope to do what ErinE says below:

 

 

I just wanted to address this part of your post. Doing WWE style on your own is not difficult. We read aloud history and science together and as we're reading, I come up with a few questions to ask him and determine what style of narration is expected. Especially for levels 1 & 2, WWE-style narration is very much, "Tell me what your remember about this passage." I either write down the narration for my child or he writes it out on his own while I use a lap white board to dictate the sentences if he needs prompting.

 

For copywork and dictation, I have small sticky notes that I place next to sentences as we're reading. For copywork, I usually quickly select a sentence and copy it down before we're finished with the passage, adapting the sentence to dd's writing level. For dictation, I go back and select the sentence(s) I'm using. If there's new punctuation or spelling, I have ds review the sentence before I begin. After he's written it, we discuss any writing conventions, usually whatever's being covered in grammar that week. But it can also be unusual punctuation, like the hyphen, colon, or the Oxford comma or a sentence I find particularly beautiful. When I was reading aloud Charlotte's Web, I spent a lot of time dictating the sentences.

 

From ds9, I also require a literature narration whenever he finishes an assigned book. I write these, but guide ds through a good narration.

 

None of the writing activities are planned out beforehand, other than following The Complete Writer's recommendations. I created a table showing the weekly assignments for each level and refer to it when making the dc's weekly planners.

 

This sounds far more complex than reality. Using the Complete Writer has helped us create a more writing focused education. Writing isn't a separate subject, to be done independent of the rest of schoolwork. Since it's incorporated into science, history, and literature, it gets done everyday.

 

This is my plan for my littles - now that I have learned from SWB how to teach early writing :)

[FO4UR]

Another plug for using the WWE textbook, and using your own books in other subjects....

 

 

My only hang up is making sure we do some written narrations every week. (Oral narrations flow easily and I really don't worry about those.) Having a wb sort of acts like a scheduler for me sometimes. I do prefer just using what we are already reading though.

 

 

The spelling we are using is heavy on dictation sentences. Using the tb as a guide, I count those dictations as writing too. It would be too too too much to do our spelling + WWE wb's for my dc. That wb1 is so nice though...I will be using it with ds5 soon.

[materursa]

Rarely, do we write just to write (except in creative writing courses). Writing as a separate subject became one more "to do" in my children's school day.

 

That isn't to say I don't like WWE. I think it is a great program and really helpful if you're uncertain about how to start or would just like the guidance SWB provides.

 

My views on grammar stage writing are a twist on Michael Pollan's "Omnivore's Dilemma" quote:

 

Learn something new. Write about it. Don't write too much.

 

I like your adapted Pollan quote. ;)

 

Is The Complete Writer book written in such a way that it explains what to do but just doesn't have all the excerpts for you or does the WWE workbooks provide a lot more instruction and direction?

 

Also, have you listened to SWB's writing lectures? Is The Complete Writer basically a text version of her lecture or are there changes, additions, etc?

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences!

[ErinE]

Writing With Ease:Strong Fundamentals (part of The Complete Writer series) has two parts.

 

The first section lays out SWB's philosophy for writing in the grammar, logic, and rhetoric stages. It's her very broad overview of how writing skills develops.

 

The next section details grammar stage writing. For Pre-K and K, she gives advice on beginning writing. She then gives a weekly plan for each year in the grammar stage. At the start of each year, there are a few excerpts (pulled from the WWE notebooks) but the remainder is weekly writing activities with suggested grammar focuses (foci? not sure of the plural).

 

Since I am a very visual person, I put all four years into a table where I can see how the writing skill is developing. It's a very gradual increase in output and analysis with more complex and gramatically challenging sentences added as the levels increase.

 

I think both The Complete Writer:WWE and SWB's writing lectures helped me develop an integrated writing program for my kids. I'm hoping SWB will come out with a similar book for the Writing With Skill and Writing With Style.

 

My workbook experience is only with WWE3 so consider my viewpoint with that information. WWE3 provides more direction and obviously also provides the excerpts for your child. It is very much open and go. I just found incorporating writing as part of history, science, and literature studies made it more likely to get done.

[ByGrace3]

Writing With Ease:Strong Fundamentals (part of The Complete Writer series) has two parts.

 

The first section lays out SWB's philosophy for writing in the grammar, logic, and rhetoric stages. It's her very broad overview of how writing skills develops.

 

The next section details grammar stage writing. For Pre-K and K, she gives advice on beginning writing. She then gives a weekly plan for each year in the grammar stage. At the start of each year, there are a few excerpts (pulled from the WWE notebooks) but the remainder is weekly writing activities with suggested grammar focuses (foci? not sure of the plural).

 

Since I am a very visual person, I put all four years into a table where I can see how the writing skill is developing. It's a very gradual increase in output and analysis with more complex and gramatically challenging sentences added as the levels increase.

 

I think both The Complete Writer:WWE and SWB's writing lectures helped me develop an integrated writing program for my kids. I'm hoping SWB will come out with a similar book for the Writing With Skill and Writing With Style.

 

My workbook experience is only with WWE3 so consider my viewpoint with that information. WWE3 provides more direction and obviously also provides the excerpts for your child. It is very much open and go. I just found incorporating writing as part of history, science, and literature studies made it more likely to get done.

 

Wow. I think something like that would be super helpful. Everytime I think about doing it myself I think the format of the guidelines is what overwhelms me more than anything. I really really want to integrate writing next year. Any chance you would care to share that table? :blush:

[materursa]

 

Since I am a very visual person, I put all four years into a table where I can see how the writing skill is developing. It's a very gradual increase in output and analysis with more complex and gramatically challenging sentences added as the levels increase.

 

I think both The Complete Writer:WWE and SWB's writing lectures helped me develop an integrated writing program for my kids. I'm hoping SWB will come out with a similar book for the Writing With Skill and Writing With Style.

 

I just found incorporating writing as part of history, science, and literature studies made it more likely to get done.

 

I'd love to incorporate writing in other subjects. I think that my writing adverse ds would do much better with that than trying to have writing as another thing to get done on top of everything else. The chart you made sounds like a really good idea to be able to see the progression of skills easily.

 

I guess I just need to listen to the lectures (I've already got those), read the Writing With Ease: Strong Fundamentals book and go from there. But for my logic-stage dd I guess I'll have to get the WWS workbook since there isn't a text for that level (at least yet).

 

Thanks Erin! :)