Writing and spelling are bringing me to tears

[bnrmom]

I just can't solve this with my 5th grader. We have used several different spelling problems, and he just doesn't get it. He spells a word right one time, and then wrong another time. He has no clue about when to double a letter when adding an ending, or even what is doubled in the middle of the world. Has not idea whether it's "ea" or "ee." He leaves out consonants. He leaves out vowels. He can spell some words just fine, and others not at all. There is no rhyme or reason to this. He seems to have no visual memory of how a word is spelled. Here is a very partial list of words he has misspelled, just in the last few weeks:

 

arrive ("ariv")

deep ("deap")

our ("are")

rulers ("rullers")

shocked ("shoked")

watching ("waching")

wasn't ("wasnnt")

touched ("tuchd")

steaks ("steeks")

been ("bin")

thrown ("throughn")

which ("wich")

flashlight ("flashlit")

finally ("finaly")

solution ("solshun")

excited (don't remember his mistake here)

sure ("shure")

character ("caretir")

mountain ("moutain")

rubber ("ruber")

paper ("papper")

trouble ("troble")

many ("meny")

 

And his writing is just awful. Choppy awkward sentences and no detail.

 

We've tried writing programs. We've even been working with a private writing tutor for 6 weeks. He just doesn't get it, and I am beside myself constantly.

 

He is going to public school for 6th grade this fall, and I've tried everything I can think of to get him up to speed. He was in public for 4th, and scored practically perfect on the writing portion of the STAR test, but I would sure love to see what he wrote because I've never seen him write anything that caliber at home.

 

I'm ready to give up and just let the teachers next year deal with it.

[Hunter]

If you were keeping him home, I'd say to go through the growing pains of teaching yourself the Spalding method in Writing Road to Reading, but...with so little time, I'm not what sure to advise.

 

Poor spelling comes from not knowing phonics. Yes, we all know SOME phonics, but I'm talking about REALLY knowing phonics.

 

I never learned about intensive phonics in time to teach my younger son. But I'm learning now and using the method to remediate other adults.

[ondreeuh]

My son is struggling with the same thing. We used Apples and Pears, which is pretty good. It is not really methodical, though, and no rules for phonograms are taught. Check out the special needs forum for the post about overteaching spelling. You can use word lists from other programs, but the key is to practice spelling words until they are solid. If the child misses a word, you keep working on it. I started it last week with word lists from spelling power, and I really like this method so far.

 

Rules don't help him much (and they are so often broken), and he has poor visual memory. I have him spelling the word aloud and practicing writing it, so I'm using his auditory and kinesthetic pathways.

[Hunter]

Spelling rules are only broken so often when you are taught oversimplified rules :-)

[bnrmom]

The problem with teaching him rules is he doesn't remember the rules!

 

We are using Apples and Pears right now, but I'm not really sure how it's working. I mean, he goes through the workbook (Level B) and knows most of what's in there, but then misses 3 words on a spelling test. (What does that mean, btw, in A&P? What are you supposed to do if the kid misses words on the spelling test portion?)

 

We've done Spelling Plus, and he HATES spelling the words out loud. He'll write them 50 times rather than spell them out loud. We use this though, along with A&P, for lists and dictation.

 

We tried Sequential Spelling but it made my head spin.

 

We checked out AAS but it depends on him remembering the rules, which he doesn't.

 

We do copywork and dictation. We read a lot. I write words on our chalkboard wall.

 

His writing has surprisingly good grammar, however. Go figure.

[americanadiangirl]

I just can't solve this with my 5th grader. We have used several different spelling problems, and he just doesn't get it. He spells a word right one time, and then wrong another time. He has no clue about when to double a letter when adding an ending, or even what is doubled in the middle of the world. Has not idea whether it's "ea" or "ee." He leaves out consonants. He leaves out vowels. He can spell some words just fine, and others not at all. There is no rhyme or reason to this. He seems to have no visual memory of how a word is spelled. Here is a very partial list of words he has misspelled, just in the last few weeks:

 

arrive ("ariv")

deep ("deap")

our ("are")

rulers ("rullers")

shocked ("shoked")

watching ("waching")

wasn't ("wasnnt")

touched ("tuchd")

steaks ("steeks")

been ("bin")

thrown ("throughn")

which ("wich")

flashlight ("flashlit")

finally ("finaly")

solution ("solshun")

excited (don't remember his mistake here)

sure ("shure")

character ("caretir")

mountain ("moutain")

rubber ("ruber")

paper ("papper")

trouble ("troble")

many ("meny")

 

And his writing is just awful. Choppy awkward sentences and no detail.

 

We've tried writing programs. We've even been working with a private writing tutor for 6 weeks. He just doesn't get it, and I am beside myself constantly.

 

He is going to public school for 6th grade this fall, and I've tried everything I can think of to get him up to speed. He was in public for 4th, and scored practically perfect on the writing portion of the STAR test, but I would sure love to see what he wrote because I've never seen him write anything that caliber at home.

 

I'm ready to give up and just let the teachers next year deal with it.

As a former elementary school teacher and now homeschooling mom, I can say for certain that I am more effective teaching my own children something difficult than I was teaching anyone else's children.

I really doubt that the teachers are going to provide much remedial help since most programs heavily discount the need for solid and consistent phonics instruction, and teachers are swamped anyway. Not to mention, no one will care more for your son than you do and will want the best for him.

I switched from Sequential Spelling to All About Spelling almost two years ago and I am still amazed at the excellent training my son is getting in understanding the phonics of the English language which as another commentor alluded to, is much more consistent than we give it credit for.

The All About Spelling lessons are fairly quick and very easy to catch up on as I had to do when I switched programs. I have yet to hear one person on any blog, forum, or personal conversation regret picking that program.

I am not an affiliate for All About Spelling, so I am just speaking from personal experience.

I wish you the best as you try to help your son be successful in all areas of his life.

[ondreeuh]

No, that's not what I mean. When you are faced with spelling a word, you have to choose between multiple phonograms to make certain sounds. Why do you choose one over the other? Sometimes it is because of a rule (like "ck" follows a short vowel), but many times it's due to the origin of the word.

 

When a student gets to a word that uses /er/, they have to choose between er, or, ir, ur, and ear (and wor, I suppose). Rules do not help you here. A child without a visual memory of a word will have no idea which one "looks right". These kids need a different approach to spelling.

 

Rules work much better for reading!

[Jess4879]

I strongly suggest trying AAS. Even when he goes to public school he will most likely need some extra after-schooling help until he catches up. Yes, it is about remembering rules, but it's done in a way that really helps a child retain the information. I honestly can't say enough good things about this program.

[Hunter]

Children who grow up in a bilingual home USE their language when they grow up. Students who only were introduced to the language, don't use it as adults.

 

The rules aren't sticking, because they are not being taught with the intensity and repetition that AAS, and WRTR teach them. We only USE what we have MASTERED.

 

AAS and WRTR take time, serious time to teach. Some people choose to not prioritize spelling. They choose not to devote the time necessary to teach it, for sometimes very good reasons.

 

Spelling isn't an easy skill for some children. Yes some learn it by sight. But many don't. The ones who don't learn it by sight, need some pretty intensive and direct instruction.

[MomatHWTK]

I'm working on introducing these rules, slowly, to DS. He has processing speed problems and spelling is very difficult for him. As we progress through reading and other areas of study, I reveiw the rules frequently to help reinforce them. So rather than having spelling as a separate subject, I'm bringing up regularly in our course of study. HTH

 

http://www.annesschoolplace.com/downloads/spellinglevela.pdf

 

 

I also like this resource:

http://www.thephonicspage.org/Phonics%20Lsns/phonogramsoundch.html

[lillehei]

AAS worked for us, too.

[lindsrae]

I am by no means an expert, but the rule tunes used in Phonics Road have helped cement spelling rules in MY head...some things I have known intuitively but couldn't name the rule that was used--such as the reasons for the silent final "e."

 

I am also reading the book Uncovering the Logic of English which I LOVE...but I have a degree in English :)

[didadeewiththree]

I am by no means an expert, but the rule tunes used in Phonics Road have helped cement spelling rules in MY head...some things I have known intuitively but couldn't name the rule that was used--such as the reasons for the silent final "e."

 

I am also reading the book Uncovering the Logic of English which I LOVE...but I have a degree in English :)

 

:iagree: Except I dont have a degree in English:)

 

Great read! I would recommend looking at WRTR, PR, or LOE also.

[mandymom]

I am by no means an expert, but the rule tunes used in Phonics Road have helped cement spelling rules in MY head...some things I have known intuitively but couldn't name the rule that was used--such as the reasons for the silent final "e."

 

 

:iagree: Phonics Road is great for teaching rules through music. And repetition is the key! Just today, we worked on adding vowel suffixes to one syllable words that end in a vowel then a consonant. The rule tune for this was sung maybe 20 times as we worked through 8 words (the same rule applied to all of them). But you know what....my son knows the rule pretty well now.

[MerryAtHope]

We checked out AAS but it depends on him remembering the rules, which he doesn't.

 

A few notes:

 

1, the rules in AAS are worded so that they are as easy to remember as possible (the author did a lot of research on this)

 

2, rules are taught one at a time, and mastered before moving on

 

3, the rules are in an ongoing review, so they don't just learn them & forget them.

 

Also...AAS doesn't depend only on rules. Good spellers use 4 main spelling strategies: phonetic, rules-based, visual, and morphemic. AAS teaches all four strategies.

 

Hope you can find a way to help your son! Merry :-)

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

I have 2 natural spellers and one who struggles, and I am a natural speller.

We have had a problem because it is my oldest who struggles. Sequential spelling did help one year and I admit it was too demanding although I did slow down the pace. It helped him so much, and as our family is still growing, I also have a struggling reader coming up, so I read about dyslexia, asked friends who have children who have been diagnosed with dyslexia.

And I kept using Alphabet Island, 100 EZ lessons, reading aloud, assigning copywork and encouraging her. Finally she is reading some, but I think Alphabet Island is not going to be enough.

SO, I took the plunge and ordered Phonics Road to Spelling and Reading Level 1 today. But it is hard to shell out that much! I hope it helps everybody.

:001_smile:

[ChrissySC]

I see familiarity in your experiences with your son. We do great with the rules for the lesson. The words are spelled 100-percent correctly on the tests. My daughter could not "hear" or "say" the sounds. I used R&S spelling workbooks for a while with Megawords Book 1. Book 1 of Megawords took us farther than anything.

 

However, the familiarity, the writing of those misspelled words is driving me crazy. I am choosing to use a spelling journal. It will be a mix that is suited to my daughter's strengths and weaknesses though. I will be focusing on visualization for spelling. This is a Charlotte Mason concept. The spelling journal will be an adaptation of a CM journal with the same focus and purpose.

 

My resources being considered (and some are being planned now) - Simply Spelling, Megawords, Spelling Wisdom, and Moder Speller (free on Google).

 

To develop the vocabulary and enrich the "word bank", we will be using Vocabu-lit and Vocabulary Bridges. I am trying to get as many word-enriched resources as possible and increase copywork heavily across all subject content.

 

See it, hear it, say it, and write it. Any spelling study that does not hit on all points will fail for a remedial speller like ours.

 

Many of those mentioned do require each of these activities, but you need to find a learning style that will be well-received by your son.

[MerryAtHope]

I just can't solve this with my 5th grader. We have used several different spelling problems, and he just doesn't get it. He spells a word right one time, and then wrong another time. He has no clue about when to double a letter when adding an ending, or even what is doubled in the middle of the world. Has not idea whether it's "ea" or "ee." He leaves out consonants. He leaves out vowels. He can spell some words just fine, and others not at all. There is no rhyme or reason to this. He seems to have no visual memory of how a word is spelled. Here is a very partial list of words he has misspelled, just in the last few weeks:

 

arrive ("ariv")

deep ("deap")

our ("are")

rulers ("rullers")

shocked ("shoked")

watching ("waching")

wasn't ("wasnnt")

touched ("tuchd")

steaks ("steeks")

been ("bin")

thrown ("throughn")

which ("wich")

flashlight ("flashlit")

finally ("finaly")

solution ("solshun")

excited (don't remember his mistake here)

sure ("shure")

character ("caretir")

mountain ("moutain")

rubber ("ruber")

paper ("papper")

trouble ("troble")

many ("meny")

 

And his writing is just awful. Choppy awkward sentences and no detail.

 

We've tried writing programs. We've even been working with a private writing tutor for 6 weeks. He just doesn't get it, and I am beside myself constantly.

 

He is going to public school for 6th grade this fall, and I've tried everything I can think of to get him up to speed. He was in public for 4th, and scored practically perfect on the writing portion of the STAR test, but I would sure love to see what he wrote because I've never seen him write anything that caliber at home.

 

I'm ready to give up and just let the teachers next year deal with it.

 

If you are willing to work with him now and over the summer, I think you could make some progress on some of these. One of the issues that often happens is that there is too much information thrown at a kid at once, and too quickly, and they end up not retaining any of it. Another thing that happens is they are taught something once or twice, we think they know it, but they haven't had any time to master the information, words are not presented to them systematically, and again they lose it. I'd really encourage you to read an article called The Funnel Concept, because no matter how you proceed, keeping these ideas in mind as you teach him in the future (or help him as he goes to school) will help you understand his needs as well as make instruction more fruitful for him.

 

At this age, my oldest was routinely spelling the word "from" f-o-r-m, and often confused phonics concepts that I thought were solidified when we worked on reading. One spelling program confused him so much that he stopped spelling "ask" correctly, and started spelling it a-i-c. He thought the C could stand for both the /s/ and the /k/ sounds at the same time, and that sometimes words just put in extra vowels for no good reason.

 

His spelling has improved by leaps and bounds since then, but it takes time, patience, and a willingness to work with a child and teach him systematically, allowing him to master one thing at a time before throwing another new concept at him, and lots and lots of review. More review than you probably would think is necessary...until you see it work. For us, the program that helped me do all of this is All About Spelling.

 

Looking at your list, all of these issues are common spelling errors, and would be handled systematically. Some relate to rules, some relate to understanding base words, some to pronunciation, some to visual methods, some to understanding homophones, and a couple would be rule-breakers. All of these strategies are mastered one at a time in AAS, walking you through what to do each step of the way.

 

One of the reasons (perhaps not the only one, but a big one) that he is struggling with writing is because he is struggling with spelling. It's hard to write something that is coherent, much less pleasing to read, when you are struggling to think through how to spell almost every word. Until spelling is more automatic, it's tough to expect writing to be automatic for him. I'd focus on spelling and narration (which is a form of oral writing) instead for now.

 

Within spelling, include dictation of words that he is learning in sentences where he can spell all of the words to develop fluency and automaticity in writing that will later help him with writing. You can focus on clarity of ideas, organization, literary elements and so on through narration and other exercises, which he will be able to use when he is ready to write. Dictation will also help him develop more stamina for writing. (I like AAS for this because it has a very natural and gradual writing progression from words to phrases to sentences that get longer, and eventually writing their own sentences around the 1000 word mark--and then they are ready for a writing program).

 

Many kids aren't ready for much writing until they have mastered at least 1000 basic words in spelling. As long as his brain-power is being used up to wrestle with how to even put one word at a time on paper--his sentences won't be very fluid. Give lots of grace in that area, and find things to encourage and praise while you help him along.

 

Best wishes, Merry :-)

[PeterPan]

Well he wouldn't change that radically from 4th to 5th, not with how hard you've been working. Honestly, I think it's time for you to get some evals. Right now you're beating your head on the wall because you DON'T KNOW WHAT'S WRONG. My rule of thumb is that when a mom comes on a public board and expresses this kind of extreme frustration despite lots and lots of work and uses clue words like "no visual memory", it's time to get evals.

 

What would I get?

-vision. You want a developmental optometrist, not a regular one. You can do a regular exam with the developmental optometrist and during it they will *screen* for some extra things a regular optometrist doesn't check. You WANT this. If nothing is going on, cool, you eliminated it. Do it. COVD is where you find them.

-neuropsych eval. This takes a lot longer to get into. You can go through the ps for a psych eval or you can do it privately, your choice. Some psychs are more helpful than others, more homeschool-friendly than others, etc. Ask around with other homeschoolers is your area to find who they used. Google your state plus dyslexia and neuropsych and see what you get.

 

There are a number of things that could explain what you've got going on. You're really frustrated right now, but I want to point out what you probably already know, that if you put him in school *without* finding out what is going on, they're not going to have any more success with him either. The key to getting over this hump is to find out the problem. You *can't fix the problem* till you know what it is. I can think up a number of different possible answers to your scenario, so there's no way you can know. You want some evals. They can help sort it out and tell you exactly what's going on. They can run tests for dyslexia, visual processing, processing speed, working memory, etc. If his problem is his eyes (just for instance), then all the curriculum changes in the world won't help. If his problem is ADHD (again, just throwing out), then you have totally different options. You need to know what's going on. That's much better than buying tons of curriculum and hoping and being frustrated.

 

BTW, this age is actually the most common time for people to do evals. The kids can no longer compensate or cover it, and the work is getting harder. It's the best time to get evals. You don't want to wait and be doing it in a few years. Better to do it now. :)

[Lori D.]

1. If at ALL possible do NOT send this child to school. At 6th grade, what is most likely to happen is that he would "fall through the cracks". :( The volume of school work kicks up a level at 6th grade. Also at 6th grade, the expectation is that students have matured out of issues and are capable of more independent work and need less teacher help. Finally, teachers with 30 students in a class do not have the time or ability to help students who have special needs or who are behind. Public schools are on such tight budgets any more that they often do not have special needs/tutoring programs. All that is likely to happen is that DS is going to fall further behind, not only in writing and spelling, but in all subjects, because school systems are built on sitting at desks, listening to instruction, and responding through writing. And if DS gets frustrated and acts out or is restless/bored because he can't do the work or do it in that way, the schools often highly encourage parents to put their students on medication. (Medication certainly IS a help and the right solution for many -- BUT meds are NOT the across-the-board answer that schools tend to use it as.)

 

2. Have you had your DS evaluated for any learning disabilities (LDs), processing issues, vision tracking, eye convergence, or physical issues (vision/hearing)? He is at a good age for being able to uncover mild issues that could be interfering with his abilities. Understanding what specific issues you may be dealing with will help you more quickly start whatever programs, therapies, glasses, or other helps that will put DS on the road to improvement.

 

3. Realize that many students with mild LDs, such as "stealth" dyslexia, do not even begin to develop the areas of the brain needed for spelling, writing, abstract math, until age 10, 12 or even 14? It would be unrealistic to expect a child to perform at a specific level if the brain has not matured and developed to be *able* to perform those tasks. Again, having a good diagnosis will allow you to know specifically how to work with DS in his problem areas.

 

4. Have you looked at Dianne Craft's website? Some things you could put into practice NOW that may really help DS are nutritional supplements to increase left/right brain hemisphere connection; the writing 8s and other physical exercises that increase left/right brain connections. She also suggests some very visual techniques for helping with spelling. Jeffrey Freed, in his book "Right Brain Children in a Left Brain World" also has great specific techniques and helps for middle school/high school students.

 

5. How is DS's writing when he dictates to you and you write it out? Or how about when he types? Often, dictating the writing onto a tape and then writing it out later a little at a time, or even better, learning to type and using a keyboard helps a student bypass the issue if it is a problem with the physical act of writing (a dysfunction there "short circuits" the writing process). And because spelling is processed in a very different part of the brain than thinking of what to write, which is also processed in yet a different brain area than controlling the act of writing, many students can NOT simultaneously do all 3 skills of thinking of what to write, physically writing, and spelling until they are much older.

 

 

 

I just want to end with (((hugs))) and encouragement. It has been a long road for us with our younger DS (very strong-willed, very bright, mild "stealth" dyslexia and highly visual-spatial learner) who has struggled with spelling, writing, and abstract math concepts. He is 18yo and graduating this year. I am so grateful we did NOT give up on him -- but I will say that at about age 10-12, I was close to despair, because nothing seemed to be working. But we kept trying, and his brain finally started to mature, and slowly, we're getting there. No teacher or public school program would have put the time and energy into our DS in the same way.

 

Blessings, and BEST of luck in finding what helps your DS! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Lori D.

[Guest thesojourners]

I would support the above posters who suggested getting him tested before moving forward. Also, consider that his spelling may have tried to go forward too quickly without getting the sounds and rules down solidly. You may need to back WAAAAAYYYY up and take it more slowly.

 

You didn't mention whether or not he has problems with reading? Does he sound out words or guess at them? That may give you some clues.

 

I have used AAS very successfully with my daughter (now 9.5). We just began level 3. That said, she has diagnosed dyslexia and very little visual memory of when a word "looks right." She has to spell by rule. Going slowly with AAS has made it possible for her to actually spell many simple words. THAT SAID, she can't yet spell many of the words on your original post! She just isn't there yet; but this cannot be rushed. She's an amazing auditory learner however.

 

It seems that your son actually IS applying some basic phonics rules to his spelling, isn't he? He isn't using completely random letters. He just doesn't know the more advanced rules (and maybe they'll take awhile to sink in).

 

In contrast, my first grade son is rapidly catching up with Big Sis and has a great visual memory for words. He will be way past Level 3 by the time he's nine. He doesn't learn well via auditory routes, but that is another story . . . I only mention that because different learners will move at different speeds through the material.

 

Have you looked at Barton (Bright Solutions) online? They have some interesting articles that may be helpful.

 

Anne C.

[amyable]

I just want to end with (((hugs))) and encouragement. It has been a long road for us with our younger DS who has struggled with spelling, writing, and abstract math concepts. He is 18yo and graduating this year. I am so grateful we did NOT give up on him -- but I will say that at about age 10-12, I was close to despair, because nothing seemed to be working. But we kept trying, and his brain finally started to mature, and slowly, we're getting there. No teacher or public school program would have put the time and energy into our DS in the same way.

 

Blessings, and BEST of luck in finding what helps your DS! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Not the OP, but I want to thank you Lori for sharing all you did and especially the above! It gives me hope that brain maturity will help. :)

 

To the OP, your son sounds just like my DD (who is now 14 and diagnosed with dyslexia, somewhat remediated visual issues and working memory deficits...oh, and ADD). She is also in Apples and Pears after trying program after program, including All About Spelling, which did very little for her. So yes, she's been taught phonics, for years, explicitly, over and over. If it doesn't *stick*, it doesn't stick and can't be applied and she still can't spell!

 

As a former speech-language pathologist I can see that the difficulty ups tremendously from spelling something on a test to "spelling on the fly" like when the child is doing a writing assignment of any sort or just trying to write a letter to Grandma. In speech, it was very common to be able to say a sound in a word, or even a sentence, but then when the child was "in conversation" it all flew out the window.:tongue_smilie:

 

I think of my daughter's spelling like that. There is so much more going on when answering a history question in writing than when she is filling in the blanks of her A & P spelling, that even when she CAN spell it in the workbook consistently, it's lost later...sometimes, and sometimes not. Sometimes right in one line and wrong in the next. :001_huh: Like a PP said, of particular difficulty are words where even if you know the itty bitty rules, you don't know which vowel combo to use, or if this is one of the three common words in the english language that breaks this rule, etc.j

 

I know I'm no real help, just wanted to let the OP know she's not alone! :grouphug: