missmoe Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I just recently started having my two 7th-graders take notes from multiple sources. They just don't seem to get what notes to take. They have been outlining and summarizing for several years now and have a good handle on those skills. I started out having them highlight their notes after we read and discussed together. I moved away from that as one of my dds tended to highlight everything! So now we are using notecards. But this skill of picking out the important facts is just not sinking in! How can they pick out the main ideas for an outline, but not be able to pick out the main ideas to put on notecards? Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom in High Heels Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmoe Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 Anyone? How do you teach note taking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyontheFarm Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 :bigear: and a bump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thowell Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I am not sure I can answer you question but wanted to give it a stab. Since you say that they can pick out the important points for an outline, is it possible that the format of the cards is throwing them off? Maybe the structured fashion of the outline helps them to focus on what they are looking for. Is it basically the same information you are wanting from them on the cards that you would want in an outline? Just trying to help you brainstorm this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunaLee Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Have you tried Cornell Notes? This is the system I've taught my dd (even though she hates using it) and when she uses it, it works very well for her. It's also one of the methods recommended in How to Study in College. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 These won't solve all your note-taking problems, but you could try: Take notes with your kids, talk about what you are writing down and why. It'll sound something like this: "this looks like the main idea of this text, so I'm going to write it down... since I want to be able to read it later, I'm going to write it neatly... but I don't have much time, so I'll just abbreviate these words... now, I want to know more reasons why this author thinks this idea is important... okay, lets see if we can find some more information here. This looks too detailed, lets focus on finding the really important points..." Or... You could take good notes on a text and horrible notes on a short text and see if they can figure out which is good and why. Perhaps then have them make horrible and wonderful notes and see if they can identify each others. Or... Be really specific with them. Tell them to take notes especially on certain things. For instance, today I had my daughter take notes on a text about the seven wonders of the ancient world. She had instructions to take notes on who built it, where, when, why it was built, how it was destroyed. or... Listen to a short lecture or read a text and create a quiz based on the main points in the text. Tell your kids that they're going to only have five minutes (or whatever) to read a text and then they'll take a quiz (or play a trivia game) based on the material. But tell them that to make it fair, they can take notes on the material. Hopefully that'll encourage them to take notes only on the most useful bits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I have not gotten the perfect system down yet. Sigh. I'm still wallowing in a pile of ebooks and workbooks and webpage links, getting nowhere fast. So far I have picked my research curriculum. I have been using IIM very successfully. The Parent book is on sale and quite good. Next I need to finish deciding on the essay style I want to use in reports, and finish creating my own textbook, all organized. Only then can I make my final decision on note taking. Different writing projects lend themselves better to different note taking methods. I need my default note taking method to work for research essays. With IIM it doesn't matter so much about the outline and note taking, because everything ends out on colored and numbered strips that can be rearranged. http://books.google.com/books?id=ZNzj33dEuTEC&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:%22Cindy+Nottage%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=N8NqT-aQO9PSgQe06PGsBg&ved=0CDwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=inauthor%3A%22Cindy%20Nottage%22&f=false I am anxious to have a note taking and outlining method in place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susie in CA Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Hmmm...Seems to me that you may be able to get them to see it via the outlining you already do. Here is what I mean: First have them outline on the subject from multiple sources, and then take those outlines and then mesh these outlines together. This may take multiple steps. I know this is not something I could just tell my kids to do. We would need to really work on this. Having said that I do believe having a writing project in mind up front will help with the notetaking as Hunter has said. If I think about this further I don't think I ever take notes from multiple sources unless I have a specific project in mind. Hope this helps. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 The Well Trained Mind is pretty helpful and has a section... How to Outline, it begins on page 297 of the 2009 edition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAR120C Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 When DS was trying to take too many notes (and full sentences or paragraphs...) I started assigning a single paragraph of writing after whatever it was - textbook chapter, or class, or research activity... and asked that his notes contain only enough to write that one paragraph. So he needed to write down single words that he needed to remember (or spell), formulas, and key points. The perfect notes after a two hour research activity (river ecology) would be a short list of the tests they did and their results, and two words reminding him about things the teacher pointed out. The key, though, is that he also needed to write that paragraph, either directly after the class or at least the same evening. This is kind of like the Cornell method (which I use myself) where you write your basic notes in one section, but follow it up with summaries and questions at the bottom of the page. So DS's final notes would be the list of key points and words, followed by a longer paragraph connecting them all and discussing the chapter or class in more detail. What I really liked about this approach is it kept him from spending too much time on notes when he needed to be engaged in the class, but it gave him a good outline to write from when he had the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmoe Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 Thanks for all the ideas! I'm thinking at this point we may write an outline for each source and then cut those outlines apart and stick each point on an index card---just to demonstrate the fact that note taking is the same thing! And I do think Cornell Notes are the way to go for us. But all the different ideas are in my brain stewing--so thanks for brainstorming for me and any other ideas will be much appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 It is awfully artificial, and not a good long term plan, but some teachers set a maximum number of words to be taken as notes from each section. "Pick the 3 best words from each sentence." "Write one sentence about each paragraph." Point___________ About________________________________________________. Point is the main topic. About is the details. Turn the Point and About into one sentence. I'm still :bigear: too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) This website has lots of free material from Susan Ankers books for remedial junior college writing. You have to create an account, but there is a TON of FREE material. I have been using this author's work of about...15 years. It is formulaic, if you are looking for that type of thing. Old copies of the textbooks are DIRT cheap. Grammar exercises are free to do online if you can't find a TM. TMs are often available, though. Content is written for remedial adults and not children. http://bedfordstmartins.com/Catalog/Author/susananker Take Notes Another way to read critically is to take notes. Taking notes can help you understand a reading and keep you alert. Using check marks and other symbols, underlining, or highlighting can also make important parts stand out. Here are some ideas about how to take notes: • Note the thesis statement (double-underline it). • Note the major support points (underline them). • Note ideas you agree with (put a check mark ✓ in the margin). • Note ideas you don’t agree with or are surprised by (put an X or ! in the margin). • Note points or words you don’t understand (put a ? in the margin). • Note information that answers your guiding question (write “guiding question” in the margin). • Note thoughts or reactions you have while reading. Review and Respond Often, your instructor will ask you to answer questions about a reading or to write about it. To do either, you may need to review the reading, looking at your notes and your highlighting before responding. The following Critical Thinking guide will help you. CRITICAL THINKING: READING CRITICALLY FOCUS • Review the reading selection. ASK • What is the author’s main point? • What evidence and explanations does the writer use to back the main point? • Does the support actually help me understand the main point, or am I left with questions and doubts? • Has the author convinced me of his or her point of view? How has the piece changed my feelings about the topic? • What do I think about the author’s message? Why? • How does what I’ve learned connect to other things I know? How does it relate to experiences I have had? WRITE • Based on the answers to your questions and your assignment, write a response to the reading selection. Edited March 24, 2012 by Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmoe Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 Hunter--thanks for the great information. I registered for the site. Looking forward to being able to explore it. This website has lots of free material from Susan Ankers books for remedial junior college writing. You have to create an account, but there is a TON of FREE material. I have been using this author's work of about...15 years. It is formulaic, if you are looking for that type of thing. Old copies of the textbooks are DIRT cheap. Grammar exercises are free to do online if you can't find a TM. TMs are often available, though. Content is written for remedial adults and not children. http://bedfordstmartins.com/Catalog/Author/susananker Take Notes Another way to read critically is to take notes. Taking notes can help you understand a reading and keep you alert. Using check marks and other symbols, underlining, or highlighting can also make important parts stand out. Here are some ideas about how to take notes: • Note the thesis statement (double-underline it). • Note the major support points (underline them). • Note ideas you agree with (put a check mark ✓ in the margin). • Note ideas you don’t agree with or are surprised by (put an X or ! in the margin). • Note points or words you don’t understand (put a ? in the margin). • Note information that answers your guiding question (write “guiding question†in the margin). • Note thoughts or reactions you have while reading. Review and Respond Often, your instructor will ask you to answer questions about a reading or to write about it. To do either, you may need to review the reading, looking at your notes and your highlighting before responding. The following Critical Thinking guide will help you. CRITICAL THINKING: READING CRITICALLY FOCUS • Review the reading selection. ASK • What is the author’s main point? • What evidence and explanations does the writer use to back the main point? • Does the support actually help me understand the main point, or am I left with questions and doubts? • Has the author convinced me of his or her point of view? How has the piece changed my feelings about the topic? • What do I think about the author’s message? Why? • How does what I’ve learned connect to other things I know? How does it relate to experiences I have had? WRITE • Based on the answers to your questions and your assignment, write a response to the reading selection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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