Is this related to dyslexia? Or something else...

[kareng]

My dd is 14 and has dyslexia. I have never really paid attention to this but today as she was putting together a report on the United Kingdom for our homeschool group, I noticed something. Her report is mostly a "display" report, lots of photos and pictures with a little writing. She had cut out these photos from where they were printed on paper. While she can use scissors, she has a hard time, and always has, cutting them evenly and close to the border and making them even (symmetric). The funny thing is that she has good fine motor dexterity. She began holding her crayon correctly at a very young age, like maybe 2? She is very artistic and draws very well. Her handwriting is OK but it takes a while for her to actually do the mechanics of writing. But because she can write and draw, it takes me by surprise that she has difficulty cutting accurately with scissors. She does wear glasses (near sighted) if that has anything to do with it. Is this a vision thing or is this related at all to dyslexia?

[PeterPan]

Your dd wouldn't be the first to have vision problems on this board. ;) I always think it's good to get it checked. You said she has glasses. When was her last appointment? What you might do is find a good developmental optometrist and use them for the next appointment (assuming it's pretty soon, just bump it up) and let them screen her. Won't cost any more particularly than the optometrist you've been using, but she'll get that additional screening. Then if they turn up any issues they can do the full developmental eval.

 

So yes, the symptoms you're describing very well could be vision-related. COVD is where you find a developmental optometrist.

[kareng]

OhElizabeth, can you tell me more about what COVD doctors do (as opposed to "regular eye doctors")? Is it expensive (meaning are there multiple sessions involved)? Are there things that only they can do in the office or ways that the parent and child can be trained so as to do them at home? I know you've talked about this in some of your posts but I really wasn't thinking they applied to my dd, so I really wasn't "listening", so to speak.

 

Thanks.

 

By the way, my dd had her eyes examined last May (and received new glasses).

Edited March 14, 2012 by kareng
added information

[PeterPan]

A developmental optometrist looks at the way the eye skills develop and function. They look at convergence, focusing, accommodation, depth perception, tracking, etc. etc. They have special tools where they can isolate the function of one eye or the other. They can test not only actual function but how well it recovers or can cycle (over and over) for use. Sometimes a person can pass a vision test but the eyes are STRAINING to do it. Or as my dd put it after she passed a vision test with a regular optometrist: oh yeah, they just told me what they wanted me to look at and I made it stop blurring!

 

Yeah.

 

And that kid passed with *2* regular optometrists!!!!! Sorry if there are any optometrists on the board. Great profession, don't mean to offend you. If you have a kid with school problems that seem vision related, what you need is a developmental optometrist. They have those tools I told you about, visual perception tests, and also something called a Visagraph, which is infrared goggles to track the eye movements as they read. The whole thing is just fascinating.

 

If she just had an exam and got glasses last month, then it would make more sense to do developmental exam, sorry. But you know, talk with them. At the place we used I was able to email the doctor and the lead therapist numerous, numerous times to make sure I was on the right track. They had parent info nights where I was able to attend, meet one of the doctors, meet the therapists, see the facility. 10 minutes of talking with the therapist and we knew she had my dd's number. She could explain all kinds of things and my dd looked so relaxed as she could tell the lady GOT it.

 

So I would see what your options are, talk it through. Maybe they have some kind of in-between option for you (just a screening). Maybe emailing them or talking with them would be enough to sort it out. Is she your 14 yo? I wouldn't let it go a year, not at that age. If it's nothing, cool beans, nothing is going on. But if vision is part of the problem, you'd rather find out now and get it fixed now than later.

 

Yes, IF they find developmental vision problems, they can do therapy. Yes it gives dramatic results, and yes it's in terms of months, not years. Yes it costs money, but it can *vary* dramatically with the practice. Some also have financial assistance (sliding scales, etc.). But fixing vision, IF VISION IS THE PROBLEM, can be a HUGE change. I'm not saying vision is her problem. You're the one seeing it. I'm saying IF it's underlying some of these things, it's affecting way more than you realize, and fixing it could change way more than you ever DREAMED. Seriously. And when you think of it like that, it's worth an awful lot. Like I would forgo curriculum a year to get it. Like I would sell stuff to get it. Like I would, well we'll stop there. :)

 

Just see what's going on. Find out your options. Maybe somebody has an affordable way to get the screening so you can make an informed decision.

 

PS. Write back if you find out anything! :)

[kareng]

My dd had a comprehensive exam yesterday at the developmental optometrist's office. The visit was long and thorough, over 2 hours. The doctor said that she has lots of issues -- issues with her eyes not tracking well (though that was her eyes' best issue), issues with her eyes not working well together (one focusing on the object, whatever it is, and the other eye doing its own thing -- causing her to see double), and her eyes not handling the transition between far and near well, sometimes it works and other times it doesn't.

 

My dd has had your regular optometry appointments and even ophthalmologist appointments but never anything like this, that tested many things and was so thorough.

 

They recommended some sort of "academic test", a visual perceptual motor test that takes 2 hours and costs a lot. After that, a conference with us to explain the findings and then most likely visual therapy. They mentioned either individual or group therapy. I didn't ask what the difference there was (other than being told the costs).

 

I really don't want her to have this "academic" test because I feel it will be a reflection of how I've done as a teacher (though I know that's not true) and there's a part of me that just doesn't want to subject her to what will be hard for her. Academics are hard for her. My dh and I wanted to skip this part (because we don't really see how necessary it is) but they won't do the visual therapy without it.

 

 

The info sheet for this "academic" test says this: "A Visual Perceptual Motor Assessment is designed to completely investigate your child's visual system. Tests will measure accommodation (focusing), binocularity (eye teaming) and ocular motility (eye tracking movements). They also measure the integration of vision with auditory and vision with motor. Finally how your child processes visual information will be investigated." I guess I'm just leery of tests and having people probe my dd. Does anyone know any more about this kind of test/assessment?

 

I'm irritated that insurance doesn't cover these things but I'm trying to get over the money because I know in my heart of hearts it's not about the money, it's about my dd having an easier time because things will work better as they should.

 

Mostly, I am stunned. I never knew there was so much going on in my dd's brain. The doctor remarked, even before much of the testing was completed , that it was obvious that my dd has persevered through much and that she is a hard worker. Now I realize that she (dd) is amazing. She has pressed through all this visual (sometimes faulty) input and dealt also with her dyslexia.

 

Lastly there's a part of me that feels like "I should have known" all this, somehow and I feel a little guilty for letting all this go for so long. But, I honestly didn't know about most of it. She used to talk about seeing double but I know she can make herself see double and she said yesterday that that was what she was referring to, not that her eyes end up seeing double when they don't work together. So in reality, I knew none of it. How can that be? I'm with my child 24/7? I know the answer to that is that what is not normal for others, is normal for my child so why would she bring up something that is an everyday occurrence? Nevertheless, how could I not have known? I felt somewhat like this when we discovered her dyslexia but not to this degree.

 

So there you have it. Seems like a whole lot to process all at once. :001_smile:

[kareng]

Can anyone who's been through this process (the comprehensive exam at a developmental optometrist, testing, and visual therapy) comment on what I wrote? Was your journey similar to mine? Did you wrestle with emotions, money, the process? Any thoughts would be helpful.

 

Thank you.

[EKS]

They recommended some sort of "academic test", a visual perceptual motor test that takes 2 hours and costs a lot. After that, a conference with us to explain the findings and then most likely visual therapy. They mentioned either individual or group therapy. I didn't ask what the difference there was (other than being told the costs).

 

I really don't want her to have this "academic" test because I feel it will be a reflection of how I've done as a teacher (though I know that's not true) and there's a part of me that just doesn't want to subject her to what will be hard for her. Academics are hard for her. My dh and I wanted to skip this part (because we don't really see how necessary it is) but they won't do the visual therapy without it.

 

 

The info sheet for this "academic" test says this: "A Visual Perceptual Motor Assessment is designed to completely investigate your child's visual system. Tests will measure accommodation (focusing), binocularity (eye teaming) and ocular motility (eye tracking movements). They also measure the integration of vision with auditory and vision with motor. Finally how your child processes visual information will be investigated." I guess I'm just leery of tests and having people probe my dd. Does anyone know any more about this kind of test/assessment?

 

 

I think the doctor misspoke when calling the test "academic." It's probably a standardized paper and pencil test (or possibly paper and pointing test) but without academic content per se. Having academic content would confound the results of a visual perceptual motor test as you wouldn't know if the person being tested is having trouble with the visual/motor stuff or the academic stuff.

 

I would have her do it. One reason they may want to do it is to get a baseline to track progress. Frankly, when it comes to vision therapy, objective measures of progress are very helpful.

[kareng]

I think the doctor misspoke when calling the test "academic." It's probably a standardized paper and pencil test (or possibly paper and pointing test) but without academic content per se. Having academic content would confound the results of a visual perceptual motor test as you wouldn't know if the person being tested is having trouble with the visual/motor stuff or the academic stuff.

 

I would have her do it. One reason they may want to do it is to get a baseline to track progress. Frankly, when it comes to vision therapy, objective measures of progress are very helpful.

 

I think you're right. Actually I am the one who called it "academic". I heard some words about standardized tests (I think they take parts of various tests) and assumed it was like the IOWAs or the CAT. And that was what was confusing to me, since I KNOW she has issues academically since I've been working with them for a very long time. And the part that was MOST perplexing to me, was actually what you said, "academic content would confound the results of a visual perceptual motor test as you wouldn't know if the person being tested is having trouble with the visual/motor stuff or the academic stuff."

 

Thanks for your input. It helps. :001_smile:

[LaughingCat]

Our VT process was similar in that it started with a "regular" appt - where they did all the regular eye test stuff that any optometrist would do plus a lot of other stuff. Then, if issues were seen at that appt, you would be referred for a test appt. The tests done at that appt were not academic in any way - it tested stuff like visual processing, visual memory, auditory to visual etc. There was one test where they had her read out loud - but it was with an apparatus attached to her head and was meant to find out how her eyes tracked as she read NOT test her reading skill level.

 

At the 2nd appt, they all were standardized tests - they all had names and I searched online and read about some of them. They were not standardized tests in the school sense.

 

At our VT the 2nd test appt is 2 hours for older kids (and adults) and 1 hour for younger kids. DD was just at the age cutoff for going to a 2 hour appt - however I requested that we have the 1 hour appt because I knew that she would not be able to cope with 2 hours. They agreed with the caveat that if the testing showed they needed to give further tests, we would make a 2nd appt. but we didn't end up doing that.

[fourcatmom]

Just a quick question, who refers you to a developmental Optometrist? Is it the Pediatrician or the regular Optometrist/Ophthalmologist? Thanks!

[LaughingCat]

Nobody referred us to the developmental optometrist. DD's pediatrician suggested we go to an optometrist when she failed their (minimal) eye exam (but gave us no names). They suggested we go to LearningRx :blink: when I went to them about possible dyslexia. (FWIW I've read good things about PACE, the system Learning Rx uses, since then but for the right circumstances not just generally for reading problems or concerns about dyslexia ).

 

DD's regular optometrist said there was nothing wrong with her eyes - that she has perfect vision (the COVD Dr. reaffirmed the perfect vision BTW).

 

We went to the COVD Dr. because of my research on the web and DD's continuing complaints of seeing double. Given the strong opinions both for and against, I'm am thankful that DD had an obvious eye related complaint - otherwise I would have waffled about it for much longer.

[kareng]

Just a quick question, who refers you to a developmental Optometrist? Is it the Pediatrician or the regular Optometrist/Ophthalmologist? Thanks!

 

I'm going to jump in and answer this question also!

 

Nobody referred us to the developmental optometrist either. Because of my daughter's dyslexia, I had been reading some things on these boards, specifically the Special Needs Board about developmental optometrists. And because OhElizabeth (thank you!) seems to think along these lines, I kept reading her responses to home schoolers, whose children showed dyslexic-like behaviors, to have them checked out by developmental optometrists. I thought about it for a long time not knowing what to do. I wasn't even aware of any of the issues with my dd's eyes that came out at our appointment this week. She never brought up any of them (other than the double vision that she can create at will) because she didn't know any different, she just thought they were normal. I would imagine that it's so much easier when you actually have a child fail a vision test even if their eyes are normal. My dd's are not. She is pretty nearsighted and only recently mentioned that she thought her eyes had changed. The optometrist told us that her glasses are fine, it's just that her eyes and brain aren't working well together so it seems like she can't see clearly.

 

I thank God that we ended up going and finding out how very hard she works to get things to work for her. Now, we can do something about it to help her. Otherwise I never would have explored this path and found out what can be fixed to make it easier for my daughter who works so hard!

[Acorn]

I am mildly dyslexic and cannot use scissors well. I don't how related they are. My mom always told me that my problem with scissors was due to poor eye-hand coordination. It makes sense that could be visual.

[wapiti]

Just a quick question, who refers you to a developmental Optometrist? Is it the Pediatrician or the regular Optometrist/Ophthalmologist? Thanks!

 

No referral necessary. To find a covd provider, see here: https://covdwp.memberpoint.com/WebPortal/BuyersGuide/ProfessionalSearch.aspx

 

The ones with FCOVD by their names are fellows and are usually more experienced than the rest. Sorting out the best available provider is not necessarily easy. If you know someone who might be able to recommend a provider, or not recommend, it's worth a phone call (such as: a neuropsych or OT or friend whose family member has been through VT). They do regular eye checkups as well, but the developmental vision evaluation is a separate, longer appointment.