Still struggling with next year math choice--Algebra, Alg "lite" or pre-Alg?

[Chris in VA]

I'm so confused. I just don't know what to pick for dd, mostly because I don't know what she knows.

She is basically taking 7th grade pre-alg now in 6th grade (at school). They are working on lots of things, and it is to prepare them to take algebra next year in middle school (7th grade).

She will have to show proficiency on two tests and have a teacher's recommendation. She does get 4s (like As) in math now.

 

But she doesn't want to take algebra. She is intimidated. She doesn't like hard things, anyway! lol

 

I just have a feeling that she can do the math, but needs another year to truly understand it and feel confident. Right now, they don't use the text, so I can't tell you what program they are using (the teachers run off worksheets and actually teach the concepts instead of using the proscribed text, which they hate).

 

So should I just wait and see how she does on the tests

Or

Pick an easy algebra, like MUS, and do more in Alg 2 when that comes around,

Or

Do a prealg (probably Saxon)?

[Trish]

Well, is she mathy such that she's going to want to blaze into Advanced Algebra/Trig as a freshman, and then pre-calculus as a sophomore? I guess if I wasn't sure, I'd be inclined to use 7th grade to strengthen all the necessary skills and so some light algebra, as opposed to the full course. My mathy kid is doing pre-algebra in 7th, so algebra in 8th feels "right" to me. (everyone's situation is different!) If she has mathy/sciency aspirations, you may want to go the accelerated route. Maybe ponder what the advantages/disadvantages would be for her of accelerated math. You don't want to bore her with more pre-algebra if she's totally on top of it, but there are some challenging pre-algebra programs out there, and some lighter algebras.

[Angie in VA]

*Waving to a fellow Virginian!*

 

How 'bout placements tests? Saxon and TT have them, I'm guessing MUS does too.

 

Can she watch Khan Academy videos over the summer (or start now) to catch up? How about using Keys to Algebra here and there to cover some basics? Or Painless Algebra?

 

Let us know what you end up doing, OK?

[Heather in VA]

So I'm a little confused, she's in ps now - is she coming home? If she's not coming home you have a few other considerations than whether she wants her math to be more challenging. As a fellow NOVAer I know that the new standard is Algebra in the 7th grade. So as a trickle down the "best" students are the ones who are in those classes. And as unfortunate as it is to say, the caliber of the students affects the quality of the class. Several of my daughters' friends have said they have been forced to take the more advanced, challenging classes because when they have chosen a "less" rigorous route the students and teachers alike treat the class like it's a joke and it's been a poor class. It's one thing if you think she isn't ready, but if she's ready for Algebra and she's staying in PS, then she should probably take it. I realize this is a lame reason to choose a course and in a perfect world you'd choose classes based on ideal for the student but this isn't a perfect world.... It's Northern Virginia public schools.

 

Oh and another aside, as large as these schools are, students are still having trouble getting their courses. One of my oldest daughter's friends decided to be on a slower math path (slow being a relative term) but to keep her IB/advanced courses in her other subjects. Well the schedule was set up with the assumption that these kids are advanced in all or nothing. So she had all kinds of trouble getting a schedule to work out because classes were not available when she needed them.

 

Of course if you meant she's coming home next year... please disregard this post :-)

 

Heather

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

What about doing a few things like Patty Paper Geometry and Hands On Equations? Maybe some Key to Algebra also? Then do Algebra 1 the following year.

[simka2]

I'm so confused. I just don't know what to pick for dd, mostly because I don't know what she knows.

She is basically taking 7th grade pre-alg now in 6th grade (at school). They are working on lots of things, and it is to prepare them to take algebra next year in middle school (7th grade).

She will have to show proficiency on two tests and have a teacher's recommendation. She does get 4s (like As) in math now.

 

But she doesn't want to take algebra. She is intimidated. She doesn't like hard things, anyway! lol

 

I just have a feeling that she can do the math, but needs another year to truly understand it and feel confident. Right now, they don't use the text, so I can't tell you what program they are using (the teachers run off worksheets and actually teach the concepts instead of using the proscribed text, which they hate).

 

So should I just wait and see how she does on the tests

Or

Pick an easy algebra, like MUS, and do more in Alg 2 when that comes around,

Or

Do a prealg (probably Saxon)?

 

I am in a similar boat, but one year behind. Someone recently reminded me that Saxon has a repeat year. Also, I was just reading this in TWTM last night. It sounds to me that she would need to take Saxon Algebra 1/2 if she wants to be in line to get all her highschool credits. The only thing is that once she starts with it I think it would be wise to finish highschool with Saxon (something about Geometry being woven throught the highschool books.)

 

CBD is running a wonderful deal on Saxon bundles with Dive cd-roms.

[Hunter]

One thing I have learned, is that just because they CAN doesn't mean they SHOULD. Every time we choose to do something, we choose NOT to do something ELSE. What is she missing out on to force herself along this accelerated pace.

 

One of my children was very accelerated in maths. It had it's pros and cons. At the time I wasn't aware of what ELSE he was missing out on. I think I might have chosen differently if I'd known all that I do now, back then.

 

When I moved to this country, the school tried to skip me a year. My mom made a huge stink and made then keep me with my age mates. She knew I was a very obedient child and would almost kill myself to keep up with whatever the expectations were and get very anxious and tired.

 

There are reasons not to keep pushing a child until we see them fail. Sometimes too much, comes long before we see failure. And also why do we push? What is at the core of all this pushing. You know the saying about the straw that breaks the camel's back? Once the back is broken, removing that one straw doesn't get the camel back on his feet and hauling a heavy load.

 

I really like BFSU (K-3 science), but as I have been reading it, I have to ask myself why this needs to be done with a kindergartner and why is it necessary to point out all the fallacies that young children usually have? What is the big rush and why do they have to give up magical thinking yet? Just because it is possible?

 

I'm just rambling, not offering advice :-) Good luck!

[Chris in VA]

She is coming home next year, tho we haven't told her yet.

 

I totally get what you are saying, Hunter, and I really agree.

 

Still thinking about it--so impatient!;)

[Crimson Wife]

What about using something like Jacobs Algebra that has pre-algebra built in to the first part of the book? That way on paper she'll be still on the honors track, but it won't be as challenging right off the bat.

[Hunter]

Have you seen any of the beautiful Waldorf middle school geography curricula?

 

http://www.google.com/search?q=waldorf+geometry&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=nq5WT81I5uHTAaHrxYoK&ved=0CD4QsAQ&biw=1366&bih=671

 

 

[Laura in STL]

I recently decided to give my ds a pre-algebra year next year for 7th grade. I had planned to go on to algebra, but decided he could do with a bit more maturity. He will still be able to get through calculus in high school. I think I've decided on AoPS because it looks like an interesting curriculum that will challenge him while giving him that time. My ds is just turning twelve now, so that was a factor for me. You may consider if your dd is on the older/younger side of the grade, as well as her math readiness.

[MamaT]

This is just my opinion, but I would put her in Saxon Algebra 1/2 next year. I think that would give her a year to mature, which is important in Algebra, and it would help you to make sure she has all the math concepts in place to succeed.

[Heather in VA]

She is coming home next year, tho we haven't told her yet.

 

I totally get what you are saying, Hunter, and I really agree.

 

Still thinking about it--so impatient!;)

 

How exciting!! (well for you - maybe not for her initially). So completely disregard what I said and give her another year before heading into Algebra. I like the idea of using AoPS or even the LOF pre-algebra books. Both choices would be more interesting than a traditional 'here are problems' books and would look at the problems differently, keeping her more engaged in the material even though much of it would be review.

 

Heather

[amtmcm]

Well, is she mathy such that she's going to want to blaze into Advanced Algebra/Trig as a freshman, and then pre-calculus as a sophomore? I guess if I wasn't sure, I'd be inclined to use 7th grade to strengthen all the necessary skills and so some light algebra, as opposed to the full course. My mathy kid is doing pre-algebra in 7th, so algebra in 8th feels "right" to me. (everyone's situation is different!) If she has mathy/sciency aspirations, you may want to go the accelerated route. Maybe ponder what the advantages/disadvantages would be for her of accelerated math. You don't want to bore her with more pre-algebra if she's totally on top of it, but there are some challenging pre-algebra programs out there, and some lighter algebras.

 

What about using something like Jacobs Algebra that has pre-algebra built in to the first part of the book? That way on paper she'll be still on the honors track, but it won't be as challenging right off the bat.

 

How exciting!! (well for you - maybe not for her initially). So completely disregard what I said and give her another year before heading into Algebra. I like the idea of using AoPS or even the LOF pre-algebra books. Both choices would be more interesting than a traditional 'here are problems' books and would look at the problems differently, keeping her more engaged in the material even though much of it would be review.

 

 

:iagree:

 

Everyone's given you some great suggestions and I especially agree with these quotes.

 

My daughter could also be ready for Algebra 1 next year in 7th, but I'm more comfortable with Algebra 1 in 8th and don't see a need to rush. After much deliberation, I'm planning to complete LOF Pre-Algebra in the fall and start BJU Algebra 1 in the spring and go at the pace my DD sets. I'll probably follow up with Jacobs Algebra 1 in 8th grade because I think DD will like it (I like it and we're similarly wired :) ).

 

Here's a sample of Jacobs if you need it.

[chirowife]

I started my daughter in Alg 1 in 7th grade. She has always been "advanced" (public school labeled her gifted and she skipped a grade) but we ended up putting it aside about half way through. She was scoring A's on all the tests an quizzes but she really just did not "get it".

So we picked it up again the beginning of this school year (8th grade) and it has been so much better. She understands all the concepts and life is just so much easier! No more arguing about math!

I think you made the right choice to hold off on Alg 1 until 8th grade...she'll still have plenty of time to get to advanced math if she chooses to!

[Chris in VA]

Thanks everyone! I used Jacobs with ds but didn't like it--too narrative for us. It came highly recommended, tho--I know it's a great book.

 

I'm going to wait for her tests to come back, and then conference with her math teacher to see if there are gaps to strengthen next year.

[Chris in VA]

Have you seen any of the beautiful Waldorf middle school geography curricula?

 

http://www.google.com/search?q=waldorf+geometry&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=nq5WT81I5uHTAaHrxYoK&ved=0CD4QsAQ&biw=1366&bih=671

 

 

 

 

LOL--no, I haven't. ;) Won't use Waldorf because of the philosophy behind it, but you did make me look, as I'm looking for geography, too! :D

[amtmcm]

Thanks everyone! I used Jacobs with ds but didn't like it--too narrative for us. It came highly recommended, tho--I know it's a great book.

 

I'm going to wait for her tests to come back, and then conference with her math teacher to see if there are gaps to strengthen next year.

 

Since Jacobs isn't a fit, if you want a gentle but solid Algebra 1 for 7th, you might consider BJU. I call it Goldilocks math - not too easy and not too hard. I've been working through the Teacher Guide getting ready for next year and I'm pleased with it.

 

I think it will be a nice exposure to Algebra 1 for my DD in the spring. If we love it, then she'll probably just finish it in 8th grade, but I'm anticipating DD will get bogged down around chapter 6 (functions & graphs). We'll be close to the end of the school year by then, so we'll get a chance to start fresh with Jacobs (or?) for 8th after some exposure in 7th.

 

ETA: Sorry, not sure if you're looking specifically for secular - obviously ignore if you are. :)

[LisaKinVA]

If you're unsure regarding "gaps" in your dd's learning, I will suggest Chalkdust Basic Math (Since you're a Virginian...I could loan you my copy ;)). I'd work through that during the summer. Saxon 8/7 or Saxon Pre-Algebra would be fine (if your child can deal with Saxon...some just don't do well with the format).

 

I'd also suggest you take the Art of Problem Solving pre-test and post-test for Pre-Algebra. If she passes the pre-test, she probably doesn't need a review course). If you're going to do another take at Pre-Algebra, this is a challenging course, but thoroughly reviews the concepts. They have some "fun" videos online (my son loves them). Possibly pairing that with Teaching Textbooks Algebra 1, doing a more difficult Algebra 1 course in 8th (we don't stop with math during the summer).

 

You want to make sure the Algebra skills are solid -- don't do a light version and hope to catch up in Algebra 2. If You can always do Geometry along-side Algebra 1 and Algebra 2 as well (so a difficult Algebra 1 course with 1/2 a Geometry course and the 2nd half of Geometry alongside a solid Algebra 2 course).

 

I have consistently heard that upper-math problems are due to a poor understanding of Algebra...if you have to do extra Algebra now, it is much better than struggling a lot later.

[dereksurfs]

...Pick an easy algebra, like MUS, and do more in Alg 2 when that comes around,

Or

Do a prealg (probably Saxon)?

 

I would definately consider MUS Algebra for a lighter intro to Algebra. A number of others including 8Fill have done this, then gone on to Foerster or something else more difficult. Our ds10 is going through MUS Pre-A and seems to like it. The instructor does a great job at taking complex concepts and breaking them down into bite sized chunks kids can understand. I am also looking at Teaching Textbooks among other easier Algebra courses and then doing a more rigorous Algebra program for 8th grade depending on how he does. There is nothing wrong with spending a little more time with Algebra, especially since its the basis for other secondary math to come.

 

My 2c,

Edited March 7, 2012 by dereksurfs

[smdgl]

I used TT Pre-Alg in 7th grade and TT Alg. 1 in 8th grade. My kids did well with both, but I felt the TT algebra, while good at teaching algebra mechanics, wasn't really getting into the meat of algebra. So, I've basically decided that the TT Alg 1 was pre-algebra, and I'm using VideoText for Algebra 1 & 2. Also, make sure you get in geometry before she takes the PSAT.