executive function vs carelessness?

[MegP]

My son is newly 12, and struggles so much to REMEMBER to do basic things.

 

He will take a shower and forget to wash his hair.

 

I will send him upstairs after breakfast to brush his teeth and put on deodorant, and he will brush his teeth and forget the deodorant.

 

Meals are especially difficult. He seems to struggle with the task of making his lunch. He will make himself a sandwich and forget to get a drink. When it come time to clean up, he will put his plate in the dishwasher and not his cup. He is VERY MESSY and there are always crumbs under his chair. He struggles with the fine motor act of using a knife and fork correctly and puts them on the table after using them instead of keeping them on his plate. And no, I cannot get OT for him. It is $165 an hour (only one pediatric OT in our area) and we cannot afford that.

 

This morning I served him applesauce. He didn't eat any which is fine, but I expected him to put saran wrap over his bowl and put it in the fridge. So he gets out saran wrap and cannot figure out how to tear off a piece. I help him. Then he goes to put the saran wrap over the bowl with the SPOON still in the bowl! I tell him to take out the spoon. He takes it out of the bowl without trying to get any of the applesauce OFF the spoon first and just puts it on the table, rather than the sink, so now he has to clean off the table (making more work for himself). It seems like tasks that to me are just common sense that you pick up along the way, he is not getting. It is hard to explain what I mean.

 

He struggles to keep his room clean. He cannot organize things well at all. I kind of feel like I am always picking on him or reminding him or scolding him for forgetting stuff.

 

Can anyone give me any suggestions? He has dyslexia and ADD.

 

Do I need to give him checklists for EVERY task? How do I make these up? How do I know if he is being careless/lazy or if this is part of the ADD? And does it matter what the cause is? Should I discipline him for these things? How?

Edited March 5, 2012 by MegP

[akalori]

my ds(9) has the same problems. He has dyslexia and ADD inattentive type too. He isn't old enough to put away his dishes yet. He is clumsy and would drop them. I try to have routines to keep him on track. I always put his clothes out for him during the week at the foot of his bed. This way he knows that he has completed the dressing task if all of pieces are used. On the weekend I let him choose his clothing himself but he has difficulty remembering if he has changed his socks and underwear. I put toothpaste on his brush in the morning and night then it is easier for him to remember if he has already brushed his teeth by looking for the toothpaste. I stand outside the shower and give him verbal prompts to wash his hair, rinse his hair, and wash his body. I cut up his food for him and reposition his tableware throughout the meal otherwise everything drifts toward the edge and falls off off the table. I guess you could try taking the cap off of the deodorant and tell him that he is to put the cap back on after using it. My son wants to please us but Is too disorganized to remember stuff without visual clues. I think these problems are probably from a combo of poor motor coordination and executive functioning issues. I've been thinking of getting that executive functioning workbook that others mention. I just wish there was a way to lay my hands on it first to see if it is worth buying. I wish I had more advice but I am also not sure how to get my son more independent.

 

Lori

[Heathermomster]

DS has two lists that he follows: one is located in the bathroom and taped to a mirror(morning list) and the other is in his bedroom (night list). DS follows those routines daily. I've resorted to this because DS struggles with organizing himself.

 

There is a book titled ADD Friendly Ways to Organize Your Life that we are using to incorporate better habits into our lives. Secondly, I've picked up the EF book by Linguisystems and hope to start using that over the Summer. DS is not ADD but presents with many of the symptoms.

[Barbara H]

It can be so frustrating to deal with.

 

For us lists have been key. At 12 it is really important that he participate in identifying problems and developing solutions. It is important to not try to tackle too much at one time. Identify one problem, work with him to make a visual reminder or a plan, check in with you about how it is going, modify the plan as needed, celebrate when you see improvements. Lather, rinse, repeat. Take time to teach stuff that you may not need to teach another kid.

 

In time, bit by bit, it will improve. That said, some people, yeah, they are probably still going to be the ones who sometimes try to put the bowl away with the spoon still in it.

[PeterPan]

You know there's a whole class of people who leave their spoon in the applesauce, and they still live happy, productive lives...

 

My dd only has slightly worse EF than I do (just being honest), and we struggle to enforce lists. I print one school checklist, put everything on it, and that's that. If I had lists in 3 places, it would never get done. As far as cleaning the room, I go in and do it for her every so often (~ monthly). I've done this since she was little, and she knows the drill. I take out a ton of stuff, but she can have back anything she remembers and asks for. She almost never does.

 

As far as remembering instructions, that's a working memory issue and something you can work on. The Executive Function Training Workbooks from Linguisystems would help you immensely. They're going on sale at the end of the month, so order them. Get both. You'll definitely want to start with the younger book.

 

As far as volition, well I personally think children WANT to grow up and WANT to please us, and they will when they can. When they can't and they aren't, our deal is to find out why. Children enjoy doing what they can do well. He would do it if he could.

 

As far as the fine motor, sigh, I hear you on the expense of OT. One of the things an OT looks at is core strength and overall tone. Tone and strength are not one in the same. Has your ped looked at his tone? There are specific things you can do to work on that, things easily done at home. Yllek has shared lots of what her ds did in OT. Sometimes when you work on tone, core strength, shoulder strength, and hand strength, the fine motor kicks in. Sometimes when the tone is not there, the sensory didn't develop either, meaning he doesn't have a strong sense of himself in space (proprioception). It's the kind of stuff an OT looks at. If you can't do OT fully, just an *eval* might be useful to you. Then you'd know what the issues are. And maybe think about whether you could then swing once a month or once every other month. I understand $$. I'm just suggesting options you might not have realized would work or be helpful. A lot of the stuff they do in OT for fine motor and strength is stuff you can do at home, with stuff you already have, once you realize what the issues are and what muscles you're needing to work, kwim? For instance legoes. I call it "prissy popping" the way the OT taught us to hold things to pop them apart to work on finger strength. She did it with unifix cubes, something many people have at home. We later bought Pop Arty beads that were really fun. But for a boy, legoes would work. It's just a certain way of turning your fingers to make sure it's working the right muscles. So just a little guidance with a TON of homework, say just one session a month or every other month, would be extremely valuable maybe not so far out of reach. Just a thought.

 

It sounds to me like working on the EF workbooks to work on his working memory, etc. would probably bring the biggest actual change to your quality of life right now. I know that can work. When we were doing VT, they started integrating exercises that worked EF along with vision. During that time dd started remembering (generally) to feed the dog, something she had NEVER done before, never ever. So anything you do to work that part of the brain is going to help.

Edited March 5, 2012 by OhElizabeth

[rafiki]

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[mommymilkies]

Sounds just like my son. My son is 10 and has the exact same issues. But to be honest, so do I. We are both clumsy, forgetful, and have a terrible working memory. Ds did go to OT and has diagnosed SPD, Visual processing, and gross motor issues. I am hopefully getting him evaluated for ADD Inattentive & Dyslexia soon. It is so frustrating. But maybe because I am so similar, I can empathize more with him. I plan on getting the EF books Elizabeth mentioned, and I've been reading everything I can on the issues for now.

[Ottakee]

Have you tried meds? I know not everyone wants to try them but they have made a HUGE difference here. It gives the kids the chance to do what they are supposed to and helps keep them focused long enough to do so.

[heart'sjoy]

"Hmmm? Your hair is dry." long pause 20-30 seconds giving child time to think

 

Slowing life way down. The gist is that they just don't notice. It can be slowly taught. If we tell them what to do, we're being their EF for them instead of working that weak area of the brain. Sometimes we do to this to get them through. We become their crutch, but ultimately we want to work their EF muscles.

 

By changing our communication to point out one or two things that they're not observing, we can give the brain a workout in that vital EF area.

 

These are the skills RDI breaks down into tiny steps.

 

:grouphug:

[FrogMom5]

My entire family is this way (sigh). It's not carelessness or laziness, imho. But, it does get better.

 

It helped me to know that most boys are like what you describe during the middle-school and early high-school age. One of the moms on the high school board described it as "their brains falling out." My dh is an assistant scout leader and says the same thing. So, your ds's age is part of the problem.

 

I also know that when I get frustrated and reprimand my son a lot, it really hurts him. I've had to learn to back off and let things go. Instead, I try to focus on the areas that will affect his well-being in life (deadlines, keeping track of important papers, grooming). Even then, I'm careful not to let my frustration show. Reducing the pressure I put on him seems to help him relax and function better too.

 

Finally, my dh does many of the behaviors you described. Yet, he's very successful in his career and social life. Yeah, some of the things he forgets/loses frustrates me but I adore him and love him very much.

 

So, I guess I'm trying to say to relax a bit. Yes, help your son w/tools and reminders (those EF books sound good), but enjoy him too.

Denise

[MegP]

Thank you all!

 

Can you tell me more about those EF worksbooks? I looked at the samples and it really looks like they are targeted for public schooled kids, not homeschooled.

 

How do you use them? Daily? I guess I am not seeing the "magic" of these books at all...mostly because the samples are all about homework and classrooms and so on.

 

Convince me that they are not just for PS kids, please, and explain HOW you use these books with your child. Thanks!

[homefront]

I'm coming from a different view because I was the child with dyslexia and ADHD. The two biggest helps with EF was knowing what triggers my ADD (vestibular issues in my case) and IM. You might like the book Dreamers, Discovers and Dynamos (the Edison Trait).

[PeterPan]

The Linguisystems books are something you do with the child. They're not ps at all. Do you not use checklists with your child?? I found the checklists very helpful for ideas on how to tailor ours. Might clue you in to how your dc's brain is working and the degree of support he needs in order to succeed at these tasks. Not ps, just useful.

 

And yes, you sit down and just work on it. A page will take 5-15 minutes, depending on how cooperative your dc is that day. Each section has 5 pages of work and recommendations on how to apply it (games, etc.). It's all very, very practical.

 

Have you read Late, Lost, and Unprepared?