I think I am going to order Rod and Staff grammar

[redsquirrel]

I cannot believe this. I don't want R&S, but I can't find a better match.

 

I have spend the last few weeks in a grammar tizzy. We are finishing the ALL long sample (I dragged that poor thing out) and now we have to move on.

 

My son is a 6th grader for a few more months. I have been dancing back and forth between Hake and R&S and KISS.

 

I swear last night I was going to go with KISS, but it just looks too flaky. I have read all the threads, I get the four levels and moving through all of them. I was going to start him at the 6th grade level and just stay there until it was done. But........I don't feel like I can trust KISS. It seems so disorganized. Well, the presentation does and that makes me not trust the content.

 

Hake looks beyond boring. My son isn't a fan of the slow and incremental style. And after all of FLL and half of ALL I am concerned that Hake won't hold a challenge and he will tune out. That is what happened with GWG. We tried transitioning from FLL4 to GWG5 and he was just soooo beyond GWG it wasn't funny.

 

Grammar is a subject my son actually enjoys. He still has all those definitions and lists memorized and know how to use them.

 

R&S is so NOT our thing. I am pretty sure my dh will be annoyed with me for bringing it into the house. He'll get over it. But, I just cannot believe I am going to do this.

[TexasRachel]

I think you'll be happy with R&S. We do it orally now and I'll admit to changing things sometimes because the constant bashing over your head of Christianity is annoying. And we are Christian. But it's a good grammar program.

[missmoe]

I understand--it is so not our thing either, but we've used it with good results.

[HappyGrace]

R+S is the only thing that even partway challenges dd12, and we even had to bump up from R+S 5 last yr (in 5th grade) to R+S 7 this yr (in 6th grade). And even this is not that big a challenge, but at least it is slightly better.

 

So yes, if you need more of a challenge, go w/ R+S. Also I would recommend telescoping through it, especially if you're not doing the writing. We are doing all of R+S 7 in about 4 months-once you take out the writing, it only leaves 90 lessons and THAT is including review chapters (I don't skip these). Then once you skip the noun/common noun and that type of lesson that they already know, it telescopes down even further.

 

R+S is the only one I've found that they have to know what they're talking about-it's not just all the same type of thing in every question-they mix it up more.

 

I would also suggest doing a lot orally-this is what we do. And she diagrams on the whiteboard, which is more "fun".

 

(side note: I don't know what we'll do after R+S 7; thinking about doing all of AG in one yr next yr, but that even looks kind of easy.)

[redsquirrel]

No, no! This is where you all jump in and tell me about some other grammar program! :lol:

 

I am going to go with 6th grade R&S, which is at grade level, and skip what can be skipped. Then I will do 7th grade and maybe move to AG or something.

 

le sigh

[danybug]

I just ordered R&S English 6 last night. We used English 5 this year and I am thrilled with it. My ds has liked it best of any grammar we have used and I daresay is actually happy with grammar ;)

 

When we do a lesson we do all of it orally, except obviously the diagramming. And I have found he has had excellent retention.

 

As you can see, I am a big fan of R&S English. I guess I didn't do a good job of convincing you against it ;)

[5LittleMonkeys]

I don't use R&S anymore but I'm still not going to try to talk you out of it.:D If we hadn't gotten to the point that the overt Christian theme was beginning to feel overbearing and if I hadn't become bored with the simplicity of the sentences we would have stayed with it.

 

We've been pretty happy with Hake. The pages look really boring but I like that the sentence structure is more diverse in the exercises and that I don't feel like I'm in church everytime I open the book. (**it should be noted that I only went through R&S 6 so the sentence structure may very well be much more complex in the upper levels.)

 

One thought though, if your concerned about your dc being bored you could place him in a higher level of Hake and add in some applied grammar with Killgallon, which at the highschool level is pretty challenging.

 

Hmmm, I don't think I was much help.:tongue_smilie: Try the R&S and see how it goes. It has pretty good resale value if you decide you don't like it.

[JadeOrchidSong]

R+S is the only thing that even partway challenges dd12, and we even had to bump up from R+S 5 last yr (in 5th grade) to R+S 7 this yr (in 6th grade). And even this is not that big a challenge, but at least it is slightly better.

 

So yes, if you need more of a challenge, go w/ R+S. Also I would recommend telescoping through it, especially if you're not doing the writing. We are doing all of R+S 7 in about 4 months-once you take out the writing, it only leaves 90 lessons and THAT is including review chapters (I don't skip these). Then once you skip the noun/common noun and that type of lesson that they already know, it telescopes down even further.

 

R+S is the only one I've found that they have to know what they're talking about-it's not just all the same type of thing in every question-they mix it up more.

 

I would also suggest doing a lot orally-this is what we do. And she diagrams on the whiteboard, which is more "fun".

 

(side note: I don't know what we'll do after R+S 7; thinking about doing all of AG in one yr next yr, but that even looks kind of easy.)

I used to make the boys do half in writing. Now I do it almost 100% orally.

Happy Grace, so what writing do you use? I am curious to know. Right now I have both boys do SWI A. Ds7 complains when I ask him to do both WWE 2 and SWI A writing assignment on the same day.

[Lovin Learnin]

I was in your exact situation last year. R&S is soooo NOT us. But I went with it because most people said it was challenging. We really like it. It's thorough and advanced, imho. Dd is learning a lot and retaining it beautifully. We skip the writing lessons and do everything else orally, except the diagramming. I will be ordering level 7 soon. No regrets here.

[HappyGrace]

Happy Grace, so what writing do you use? I am curious to know. Right now I have both boys do SWI A. Ds7 complains when I ask him to do both WWE 2 and SWI A writing assignment on the same day.

 

For dd12 we do a combo of IEW and Lost Tools of Writing with a little bit from Elegant Essay.

 

Ds8 is doing IEW's All Things Fun and Fascinating (LOVE this!) But dd did only IEW for a few yrs, and it didn't teach all I wanted, so I also have him do other forms of writing. Every other wk he does one of the writing assignments from BJU English 3 (these are very well done and cover persuasive writing and other things that IEW doesn't cover as well at this level--AND it is very step by step, etc.) He also writes some history/sci narrations, but these are very short and usually he does an illustration to go along with it.

 

I give him quite a bit of writing because I skimped on it w/ dd at that age (we did too much "gravy" instead of focusing on skills). I will add as a caveat though that he doesn't mind the physical act of writing like many boys his age do, so we can do a little more.

 

And actually, the ATF and F is only basically one KWO and one rewrite per wk, so this only takes us two days.

 

BTW, I do think the writing in R+S seems good; I just needed something more step by step and fleshed out.

[redsquirrel]

Thank you all for being so reassuing. I told my dh last night and he just said he trusts me to know what is best. Actually, I read some of your replies to my son and it made him feel a whole lot better.

[Hedgehog]

We've used R&S for some time now, and it suits us really well. I think Moominmamma and The Snork Maiden really need to write things down in order to remember them, so it works for them to do it almost independently and just come to me if they're stuck. Which doesn't happen often because R&S is so well explained and laid out.

 

I hope it works well for you!

[Mallorie]

Sometimes you can get R&S used for a song.

 

Right now, my 5th grader is using Hake. It's just a really good fit for him, but I can see where a kid who likes grammar would not enjoy Hake, so I wouldn't talk you into that one.

 

My older is using Analytical Grammar. That's really turned the subject around for him, he's getting it now and has made HUGE headway in diagramming. Another good fit because it's quick and painless (as much as grammar could be for him).

 

If you feel the pull to R&S, go for it. May not be the exciting highlight of the day, but it'll get the job done, and the kid will know grammar. :)

[Penelope]

I know what you mean. I ordered it for fifth grade, having passed it over a couple of times. It looks so dry. But it will do the job. I haven't shown it to my son yet, because I doubt he will be excited. :tongue_smilie:

[Tarreymere]

Let me add we have been using it also. It gets the job done, it's painless, and we get done quickly. And it's inexpensive. We also do most of the review orally and diagram on a whiteboard. The most important thing though is that it is retained. WHY OH WHY can't someone out there come up with a more appealing grammar that does the same thing?????? Just ordering the next level depresses me.......

 

I'm looking at a vintage Pinneo's Primary Grammar as a possible substitute but I'm not sure if it will be any less dry.

[redsquirrel]

It isn't the dryness that has me feeling trepidation towards R&S. We are not Christian. And while I have used materials that are written from a Christian perspective, I have never used anything this overt. Until now, I have always been able to find a work around. That is the only issue I have with the materials.

[Penelope]

I understand. We are Christian, but I'm not a fan of materials that are overwhelming in their religious inclusion, either.

[Cosmos]

I cannot believe this. I don't want R&S, but I can't find a better match.

 

If it makes you feel better, I'm in the same boat. I looked long and hard, but in the end R&S was the best. In fact, I just ordered it today!

 

Good luck to us both!

[TKDmom]

I started this year with R&S 5, and after Christmas break, dd begged me not to pull it out again. I had been thinking it was going pretty well, but she picks up on grammar very quickly, and any review is too much. She was dying to learn more complicated diagramming, and we were both annoyed by having God shoved down our throats (and we are Christian).

 

So now she is slowly working her way through Rex Barks. It's just diagramming, but I figure she will learn grammar as she learns to diagram. It's written for high schoolers, and it doen't shy away from complex ideas. She loves the understated humor and the sometimes funny sentences that involve Rex.

[Testimony]

Just a suggestion!

 

I really like Rod and Staff because it is very thorough. We stepped into it at grade 6 for my older son. I fell in love because I enjoyed the thoroughness of it. My older son who is a very strong Christian thought the Christian flavor was strong. He said it seems to push Christianity a little bit more than other Christian curriculum.

 

I thought that maybe if the Christian overtones was the issue maybe you can teach as a cultural thing to your children. For example, it is written by Mennonites. Their Christian faith is apart of their culture, obviously, based upon their lifestyle that is evident. So, I explained to them how this is how they learn and lived their lives. It is the similar idea to Singapore math when they would use names or animals or plants that we never heard of because they were conducive to Singapore.

 

It is just a thought.

 

Blessings to you in your homeschooling journey!

 

Sincerely,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[redsquirrel]

Testimony, that is a great idea. The books arrived yesterday and we took a look at them. It did make my son curious about the Mennonites.

 

To be clear, my son is friends with many Christians and is familiar with the Christian faith. His best friend is Catholic and next weekend he is attending a Quaker youth retreat. He has no familiarity with conservative Christianity. I think your suggestion is a good one and this will make for a good introduction.

 

It has been a little funny. He initially got it into his head that these are the books that all Christians use for homeschooling. We set him straight on that issue.

[Create Your Ritual]

Redsquirrel,

 

I am in the exact same boat right now. I used RS4 last year and it was .. meh ... I was so excited for ALL and we finished a few weeks ago and I have been digging my way through the 6th grade Level 1 KISS. The thing that is kind of irking me about it is the fact that we know more than this level already, but I don't want to skip anything so I am doing it. That said .. there are things like having the entire verb phrase include weird things like infinitives in it, but it is being identified in KISS as the verb phrase. I don't profess to be a grammar connoisseur, so it's just THAT much different that I don't know.

 

THe kids love the literature used in KISS though. I need to just look ahead to upper levels. Also, they are missing the diagramming, and the only diagramming I have learned is what we did in the sample weeks of ALL, so we are at a detriment to move forward unless I supplement.

 

I have been thinking about AG. Can I ask why you think that you need to do several years of RS (6&7) before you move into AG? Is it that hard that one would need to do that? I think I am about to push BUY on R&S 6 as well, but I really don't want to. LOL

[Create Your Ritual]

I forgot to mention that we have worked our way through MCT Island & Town, and are doing the Killgallon Elementary books this year. I also have The Great Editing Adventure Vol 2. But .. I still feel like I can't diagram a sentence for them. ;-) I have taken to incorporating 1 day a week for copia skills .. we take sentences from our CC Narrative and 6 sentence shuffle them and I am like .. hmmmm.... where does this go? lol. We also do the copia work & figurative language in WWS for Day 4.

[Cosmos]

Testimony, that is a great idea. The books arrived yesterday and we took a look at them. It did make my son curious about the Mennonites.

 

To be clear, my son is friends with many Christians and is familiar with the Christian faith. His best friend is Catholic and next weekend he is attending a Quaker youth retreat. He has no familiarity with conservative Christianity. I think your suggestion is a good one and this will make for a good introduction.

 

It has been a little funny. He initially got it into his head that these are the books that all Christians use for homeschooling. We set him straight on that issue.

 

Our R&S books got here yesterday. I spent a couple hours reading the teacher manual last night.

 

I'm excited! I think I've made the right choice for what my ds needs. This is such a solid program. I can't wait to get started. I had been planning on finishing out the last bit of Easy Grammar he's been doing, but I almost might ditch it and just get started on the R&S. I feel sure they're going to cover whatever is in those last few pages of EG.

[smdgl]

We used it for grades 3-8. My kids know grammar cold. Very happy with R&S English. However, we skipped most of the writing lessons and used IEW for writing instead.