ElizaG Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Sometimes I feel like I'm having a Lloyd Dobler crisis. I don't want to buy anything sold or processed, sell anything bought or processed, or process anything bought, sold, or processed. Or tweak anything bought, sold, or processed. I just want to spend as much time as possible with my children before they go off to college. But I'm not a kickboxer. Or an unschooler. There are certain things I expect the children to learn, and certain skills I expect them to develop. I've just never found any ready-made materials that work for us, as written, for more than five minutes. Things that are supposed to save time turn out to be a preoccupation. :tongue_smilie: We've tried the DIY approach, either with loose adherence to TWTM or other guidelines, or just with me winging it. These lessons go very well, and the children love it, but it's so hard to stay organized. We get into some great learning in one subject area, and everything else (school & home) falls by the wayside. So then we end up going back to the ready-made stuff -- see my sig -- and we all sort of breathe a sigh of relief. It's like cooking from scratch (also an issue around here). To some extent, I'm left feeling that the children would do better with a more relaxed mother, a more predictable daily routine, and the educational equivalent of the better brands of store-bought lunch meat and bagged baby carrots. But there has to be a middle ground -- going above the basics, without reaching beyond the limits of what's practical. I'm just not good at finding it. Help, please; I've fallen down a well built of my own ambitions. Has anyone been in this situation and found a way out? :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawlas Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Wow, this is a tough post to offer anything up lol! I'm by no means an expert, having just started (little kids) but I find the same thing could be said of preschool curriculum. You COULD buy it, implement and work with it, but you don't NEED too. Often what you're doing - some deliberate time spent each day - is more than enough for a preschool. And I wouldn't call that unschooling either. When you say you don't want to spend time/money etc on a curriculum or other materials, does this include manipulatives? Board games? Books? I strucutre our time loosely, but not down to the second. We have a math lab. We have science boxes. We have a book time. Most days we have a fine motor skills time (although we don't call it that lol). None of those include a curriculum, textbooks or teacher's guides. It does include a ton of manipulatives, puzzles, books, plastic boxes and shelves, a few items from HWOT and ETC. And my ipad. I'm not sure this is what you're looking for :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizaG Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 To clarify, we have bought a bunch of different stuff over the years -- games as well as formal curriculum -- and I like some of it quite a bit. I'm just finding that dealing with it (buying, storing, printing, scheduling, tweaking, cleaning up) takes my attention away from actually being with my children. And most of it doesn't really add much value. I mean, my little folks love the counting bears, but my older ones liked it just as much when we used to use different kinds of dried beans. And it's not the preschoolers I'm thinking about, so much as my 6 and 8 year olds. They need a lot of meaty work. My main issue with the prepared materials at their level is that they're not integrated with anything. And none of the integrated curricula seem to be a good fit with our worldview and educational priorities. (I would love to write one, but even I can tell that's out of reach right now. ;)) I hope that makes more sense. I've identified the problem; I just don't know how to solve it. Perhaps just more self-discipline, and a bigger clock on the wall. Evidently I'm missing an internal "off" switch or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDad Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 If you don't want to tweak or consume anything, then maybe try to find a balance. Figure out what subjects you do well on your own and what you need some curriculum to back you up. Set up some monthly and year end goals and try to meet those. That will keep you on track and show you where you may need some assistance. A few solid non-consumable choices in curriculum could give you just the break you need to be able to enjoy the parts you excel in. Or what about a more CM approach using lots of library books and winging it that way? :iagree: I sort of had the same thought process that you did... until realizing that there was no way I could possibly even TRY to teach calculus to my poor mathletes. We've tried the DIY approach, either with loose adherence to TWTM or other guidelines, or just with me winging it. These lessons go very well, and the children love it, but it's so hard to stay organized. We get into some great learning in one subject area, and everything else (school & home) falls by the wayside. So then we end up going back to the ready-made stuff -- see my sig -- and we all sort of breathe a sigh of relief. OK, so why don't you try an approach that works with that "weakness"? You could do unit studies, or you could use the Waldorf-esque "main lessons" theology. Work WITH your problems, not against them... or else you'll go bonkers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momtoamiracle Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 simplify. If you don't want to be picking up counting bears, picking up beans is going to be the same thing. Unless you want to throw them away, and then that gets wasteful. Use an abacus. It's all of a piece and all you have to do is put it on a shelf somewhere. Put a number line on the wall. Use a whiteboard instead of paper for doing math problems. I had done all kinds of stuff too, crafty things I had gathered, things I had printed out for preschool. I used none of it. My son wasn't interested. I've tossed or given away most of it and just use what he loves. We used one inch colored blocks for almost every math lesson. When we're done, I have him put them back in the box. get books that are for more than one level. Usborne Science and History encylopedias are wonderful. I also like to keep everything in one place. I have a huge desk and all of our school stuff is in it. It's very easy to put it all away when we're finished. HOnestlly we don't drag out that much stuff. Usually only if we're doing something for science or art. If you feel overwhelmed take a break. You'll have to decide ifyou want to keep tweaking or just go with the flow. Only you can know what you're looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizaG Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) Figure out what subjects you do well on your own and what you need some curriculum to back you up. (...) A few solid non-consumable choices in curriculum could give you just the break you need to be able to enjoy the parts you excel in. Or what about a more CM approach using lots of library books and winging it that way? This is the trouble, really. It's not about enjoying or excelling in some parts in particular. I enjoy all of it, especially the connections between different subjects, times, and places. "Using lots of library books and winging it" would be a nightmare here. We would have a fascinating time, but would likely not eat or bathe for a week. :lol: CM (the authentic method) might help us get organized, but I'm not comfortable with her philosophy. Too Platonic, and I would argue with some of her key beliefs about the nature of the child. It seems to me to be a prettier, more idealized form of the conventional British education of her time. I don't really agree with Waldorf or unit studies either -- at least, not past primary age. I'm convinced of the value of classical education, including its various modern adaptations such as TWTM and LCC. I'm just not sure how best to apply the principles in my own homeschooling environment. That's why I'm here. Having short-term goals would certainly help, but probably not if they were put in the form of specific learning objectives. Our older two are working ahead of grade level in many areas, and one of the younger ones has some developmental delays. I'm happy enough when we're getting to all of the important areas, the children are attentive and give a sense of being challenged, and they're making some forward progress with their skills (not just learning interesting content). For the last year or so, we did have a system that was working reasonably well -- workbooks for the 3 R's in the morning; informal self-designed history or geography studies in the afternoon -- but it's no longer enough for my eldest. She's ready for more intensive work on various aspects of written and oral language. I feel as if we should be integrating these skills with each other, and with the content of our other lessons, rather than splitting them up. But it's a big undertaking. That pesky entropy... Edited February 28, 2012 by Eleanor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber in AUS Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 What about keeping with your 3R's in the mornings but having her writing assignment tie in with your history, geography, science or literature that you are studying in the afternoon. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poke Salad Annie Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) We've tried the DIY approach, either with loose adherence to TWTM or other guidelines, or just with me winging it. These lessons go very well, and the children love it, but it's so hard to stay organized. We get into some great learning in one subject area, and everything else (school & home) falls by the wayside. So then we end up going back to the ready-made stuff -- see my sig -- and we all sort of breathe a sigh of relief. Love the Lloyd Dobler reference! I don't use anything prepared except for grammar and math. I gather books, make a copy of the table of contents, then go from there. I love to teach, and could never spend the day checking off some other person's *boxes*. Just can't do that...... You say that the lessons go very well when you just wing it and your kids are engrossed and enthralled, right? Why stop? Isn't that what you want your home school to be? Light a fire, don't fill a bucket. I think you're really onto something with what you're doing already. If things fall by the wayside, then put them on the next day's schedule, or let them read about it and study in the evenings. We spent two hours on math today. Two hours!! Of course some things fell by the wayside, but when I see that light coming on and that spark of understanding, well, I can't let that moment pass. Don't go there with the boxed stuff. Simplify what you have. Make a schedule and include all the books you want to teach with, then go from there. Oh, I'll add one more thing. If *home* falls by the wayside, then they can all pitch in with dish washing, clothes folding, and all other sorts of housework. Consider it Montessori time. Edited February 28, 2012 by Poke Salad Annie spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Twain Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Eleanor, have you thought about using something like the Creek Edge Press task cards? I have not used them myself, but they look intriguing. They may give you the structure you need but also allow you the freedom that you want. You could set a time limit per day and per subject with these so that they don't consume all of your time. You could use prepared curricula just for the core subjects, such as math and grammar as the previous poster said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelissaMinNC Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 You could check out the book Planning Your Charlotte Mason Education by Simply Charlotte Mason. I have recently borrowed a friend's and have been just reading through it. Even if you are not CM-minded, I think it would be very helpful in planning out/staying on task. It really breaks down the process in a step-by-step way - from your big picture (all 12 years of education), to 1 year, to a term (a trimester, semester or quarter - whatever you want), to a week, and then to a daily schedule. You decide what you want to teach, what books you want to use, etc, and it helps you plan it out. All that being said, I use a packaged curriculum (MFW) for the bulk of our studies, but this book is still helping me think about how I want to approach the topics that are not scheduled through MFW, and be more intentional about getting them done. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M&M Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Sometimes I feel like I'm having a Lloyd Dobler crisis. I don't want to buy anything sold or processed, sell anything bought or processed, or process anything bought, sold, or processed. Or tweak anything bought, sold, or processed. I just want to spend as much time as possible with my children before they go off to college. But I'm not a kickboxer. Or an unschooler. There are certain things I expect the children to learn, and certain skills I expect them to develop. I've just never found any ready-made materials that work for us, as written, for more than five minutes. Things that are supposed to save time turn out to be a preoccupation. :tongue_smilie: We've tried the DIY approach, either with loose adherence to TWTM or other guidelines, or just with me winging it. These lessons go very well, and the children love it, but it's so hard to stay organized. We get into some great learning in one subject area, and everything else (school & home) falls by the wayside. So then we end up going back to the ready-made stuff -- see my sig -- and we all sort of breathe a sigh of relief. It's like cooking from scratch (also an issue around here). To some extent, I'm left feeling that the children would do better with a more relaxed mother, a more predictable daily routine, and the educational equivalent of the better brands of store-bought lunch meat and bagged baby carrots. But there has to be a middle ground -- going above the basics, without reaching beyond the limits of what's practical. I'm just not good at finding it. Help, please; I've fallen down a well built of my own ambitions. Has anyone been in this situation and found a way out? :tongue_smilie: + :grouphug: I see you have a newborn and 4 other dc. Life is very busy in your house, ask me how I know ;). When ever we had a new baby in the house, it always seemed like after the first few months, I would start to notice how "behind" we were, how much was not getting done around the house, the laundry, dishes, science.....I would panic. So, first I want you to know that you need to give yourself time to work out a new normal for your house, every baby seems to alter the family dynamic and you need time to find what works now. I found that my children could learn through games, puzzles, stories on cd, science videos. Things they could do independently of Mom. I would try to cover the 3 r's as best I could each day giving priority to the oldest children. I found that my littles were able to make up for lost time easily as long as they learned to respect table time (school time). I tried packaged curriculum, but the schedules drove me crazy because I could not keep on schedule--too many variables. So, when my children were young I found as many resources that were a) pick up and go, b) non-consumable, and c) easy to use for mulitiple ages. OPGR, SOTW, and Jim Weiss cd's are things we still use for this reason. Now that my children are older, we follow many of these principles, and we use some dvd lessons as well. My children know that they must "MELT" every day M- math, E- english, L- latin, and T-tunes (piano practice). It takes time to establish habits, and we are still working on it, but doing these things has helped me feel like we are progressing. I have found the TOG works well for me because it is planned enough to keep us on track, moving forward, but not so scheduled that I feel like I am "behind". MUS has also been a big hit here, but you must find what works best in your house. Hope this helps, I know I have wasted too much time worrying and looking for better curriculum when I could have :chillpill: and just allowed myself to do the best I could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delaney Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Take a look at TOG like the PP said. It gives a lot to choose from and the DE version is not overly pricey. It will give you a guide to follow roughly while you peruse their smorgasboard of things. You could also do SOWT. It give narration, copywork, activities and keeps you on pace. Another that includes science is something like Trail guide pathways of exploration. Lots to choose from there in terms of cdopywork, writing, word study......I use it with my 8 year old and just pick what we need each week and print. She likes the rabbit trails she can follow with the science and geography stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizaG Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 Love the Lloyd Dobler reference! :) At some level, I can identify with all the characters in that scene. Thanks for the advice. Now I'm trying to decide if I should jump right in: Don't go there with the boxed stuff. Simplify what you have. Make a schedule and include all the books you want to teach with, then go from there. or put one foot in the water, as Amber suggested: What about keeping with your 3R's in the mornings but having her writing assignment tie in with your history, geography, science or literature that you are studying in the afternoon. Just a thought. She isn't doing much in the way of writing assignments yet -- that's part of the problem. I was thinking about starting Classical Composition soon, but that should probably wait until next year. For now, I can increase the narration and dictation when we read books in the afternoon. The older children's morning work has to be semi-independent (because that's when I work with the little ones). I guess she could do something with dictionary skills or Latin roots relating to what we're reading. Or maybe some writing with art -- Draw Write Now, or Draw & Write Through History, or just something she makes up. Oh, I'll add one more thing. If *home* falls by the wayside, then they can all pitch in with dish washing, clothes folding, and all other sorts of housework. Consider it Montessori time.They do a lot of this and enjoy it, but I tend to get tired and lose patience when I've already been putting so much energy into homeschooling. This is why I stopped doing actual Montessori. It was okay when I just had preschoolers, but too much to do with multiple ages at once. I guess Charlotte Mason would have just sent them off to the kitchen to help the cook peel the potatoes. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASDAQ Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Maybe I'm alone, but I'm not quite getting what it is you like about DIY curricula, except the "DIY" aspect of it. Is there some aspect in particular you love, or is it like that feeling that a good mother _ought_ to hand-knit her children's sweaters and mix them up hot breakfasts from scratch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizaG Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) Maybe I'm alone, but I'm not quite getting what it is you like about DIY curricula, except the "DIY" aspect of it. Is there some aspect in particular you love, or is it like that feeling that a good mother _ought_ to hand-knit her children's sweaters and mix them up hot breakfasts from scratch? No, not the latter. :) I enjoy doing things myself, but I also appreciate the value of others' work. The thing is that the integrated curricula either come from a different religious perspective (which affects their presentation of historical events, choice of biographies, etc.), or they don't have enough for my little folks to do, or they have a different educational philosophy. Or all of the above. And I can deal with these things, more or less, by making adjustments. But at some point, it seems like it would be easier to put together a pile of books and do it myself -- especially since it's something I enjoy doing. It just seems as if I need to be more firm with the goals and scheduling. The book Melissa recommended looks like it could be very helpful. :) To give an idea of how things have worked out with materials we've tried so far: New Child Montessori (unit study type of approach) -- we followed their schedule of topics, but only used a tiny handful of the suggested books and activities Connecting With History (Catholic literature-based program) -- we skipped their lesson plans and schedule, which seemed more oriented to older children, and just read the books along with SOTW1 SOTW1 -- we read the main book and a few of the supplemental books, did some map work, and occasionally did one of the crafts. We didn't use it for copywork and dictation, because I'd prefer to use classic literature. (No offense intended to SWB. I'm guessing she would use classic literature too. :)) K12 History 2 -- we went through all of the lessons (similar to SOTW, but read off the computer screen, with occasional audio and video), and did some of the worksheets and coloring pages. We really liked this for my children's ages, but it was just history, nothing else. Trail Guide: Paths of Exploration -- it's funny that someone recommended this; we just started it recently, and I'm going back and forth on sticking with it. It's good in many ways, but it takes a lot of time to do the activities (and they sometimes build on each other, so it's hard to skip ahead), there's not much for the younger ones to do, and we miss the chronological approach to history. And these are the ones that I liked well enough to use. You don't want to hear about the others. :D So that is the background to my rant. ;) Edited February 29, 2012 by Eleanor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serendipitous journey Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I just saw this, and maybe the conversation has closed down ... but if not, I am wondering what in Charlotte Mason's view of the child's nature doesn't ring true for you, and what you are esp. thinking of when you say a Classical education. Just going for understanding here -- am trying to think if any of our strategies would transfer well; though we're in the middle of a fairly major overhaul, so perhaps are not the best source of ideas for stability! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 More idependent exploration and less teaching? Checklists for chores? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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