Letter from German home ed family re Berlin conference...

[Joan in GE]

Hi all, a friend in Germany wrote this letter to the board of the conference that they want to hold in Germany. I thought there were some very interesting points, especially about how the Berlin wall fell to begin with..But it is long so I've cut it in two...:001_smile:

 

Dear Mr Donnelly, dear members of the organizing committee,

 

 

Thank you for your detailed answer to my email. In your reply I got more answers than the members of the LU-list got from D and J before.

 

You say that you will take my concerns into consideration when making the final decision about where the conference should take place. I am not the only one who is against this conference, and I have seen the answers from you to several others who have written to you. After reading those answers I don't believe any more that you will really take our concerns into consideration.

 

You say that there have been several conferences about home education in Germany and that they didn't create a significant risk for families. It is true that there have been two or three conferences in Germany but the conferences I am aware of have all been organized by Germans and the goal of those conferences was quite different.

 

You are writing:

 

„I am aware that there are families who are able to practice home education in their communities and live with some level of mutual tolerance between them and the authorities. I'm glad that this is the case for these families. Of course, this does not help those other families who would like to home educate their children nor does it have any impact on creating further awareness about the problems of global public policy that may be hostile towards home education."

 

Although you are a home educating parent yourself and you are saying you are working for home educators and for the legalization of home education, you don't seem to be able to see the groundbreaking work these families are doing. In my opinion it is far more than any conference can do. These families are positive role models for those families who would like to home educate and who think it is impossible to do it in Germany. New families notice that it can be worthwhile to work up all your courage to resist even major threats. They also see that not all representatives from the school authorities or legal or youth welfare offices are bad people who are working against home educating families, indeed some have a great deal of civil courage which becomes contagious to officials in other districts who might not make a first step, but are willing to follow a narrow trail once they have seen it. The children of families who are practicing home education in Germany are the best promotion for home education itself. Everyone who is in contact with those children is positively surprised. This is something I did experience with my own sons and one of my daughters and it is what others are experiencing every day with their neighbors, friends, in-laws, doctors, shop assistants, their local school teachers and heads, in their music classes, sports activities and so on. This builds the very ground of awareness, especially with the profound unhappiness of most of the children and parents in Germany with their school situation. These home educated children make people think about it much more thoroughly than any conference can do. Even if families resist in a threatening situation just for one year, it matters. It is another NO which gets openly expressed in the face of authorities.

 

I think it is the same as it was with the major political changes in Germany in the nineties when the Berlin wall came down. *This** **wasn**'**t** **done** ** by** **a** **conference** **of** **some** **big** **organization** **-** ** it** **was** **done** **by** **the** **people** **on** **the** **streets** * *who** **said** **NO.*

 

One of my main concerns is that those families who are risking a lot in Germany become endangered by having this conference in Germany. If there is only one family who will be in danger due to this conference, that is just one too many. You have not acknowledged that many of these families are very active politically, even though it puts them at risk. Those of us who are living and working here have the knowledge and experience needed to see what will be productive and to decide which risks are worth taking.

 

Another of my major points of concern is the major involvement of your association in this conference.

 

You, D (German organizer) and J (Swedish organizer) say that HSLDA is just one of many others who are organizing and funding the conference. Whom do you want to convince with repeating this over and over and over again? Most of the board members are from HSLDA or organizations related or similar to HSLDA. The board does by no means represent the broad variety of the home education movement. D is not representing any organization and doesn't really work together with the existing organizations in Germany nor with the other activists. J is representing a small European homeschooling organization. Why are there no big unschooling organizations on the board especially those from countries with a home education history longer than the USA, like Britain, Australia and New Zealand? Even in other European countries there are bigger organizations with a lot of more experience than this small organization has. Most of the members of the European network just don't buy the statement that HSLDA has just a minor role in the conference, and they probably won't attend it because of HSLDA's negative involvement with their organizations or in their countries. If the committee does want to show German officials and media the diverse range of styles, nationalities and families through the attendants as a way of "taking a large step in further recognizing home education as a global movement" as you say, then you have to begin by communicating with us in Germany and the other European countries and with those organizations who have had bad experiences with HSLDA in a different way. That means in my opinion to cancel this conference and bring us all together to do the planning together, otherwise I fear that this conference will be a one-sided business and is likely to cause a split in the German and the European movement.

 

 

You say that the conference will get positive attention in the media, and you haven't experienced bad reporting about HSLDA, but there is no guarantee that this will be the case with this conference as well. I think HSLDA will be seen by the general public as a right wing fundamentalist Christian association, disrespecting the rights of children. There are a number of statements on the HSLDA homepage that confirm this perception, for example your rejection of the Convention on the Rights of the Child: "1. Parents would no longer be able to administer reasonable spankings to their children." In Germany it is illegal to use violence in any form against children („Children have a right to non-violent upbringing. Physical punishments, psychological injuries and other degrading measures are inadmissible"). There are other things on the website as well which wouldn't be easily accepted by the general public in Germany.

 

Do you really think that journalists won't look for background information and won't mention these things at all? You express a lot of hope but you can 't guarantee this. If I can find statements like the one above on the website, journalists certainly will be able to do the same.

 

As far as I can see the argument of "avoiding the emergence of parallel societies" most often offered by officials as a reason against legalizing home education relates to exactly this perception of home education. Over the last years the home education movement in Germany has put a huge effort into showing a different picture. I don't want this effort to be wasted.

 

ETA - comment by Joan - some other friends from Germany recount how when children go to school, they are asked by the teacher to raise their hand if they have gotten any spanking at home. Then the teacher takes any names and the parents will get a visit. This has caused the removal of some children from their family. And after another friend had her first child, she got a visit from child welfare and the lady told her that she is not allowed to spank her children. So this is considered very serious in Germany.

 

continues in next post....

Edited February 24, 2012 by Joan in Geneva

[Joan in GE]

As well you can't guarantee that school authorities from the Individual German states and educational policy makers will come to the conference. I am a long term home education activist and I have some experience with German politicians. I pretty much doubt that more than two or three politicians will show up at the conference, and this won‘t bring us large steps forward to an international or even German acceptance of home education.

 

You wrote: „Every journey must start with a single step-of course the journey for homeschoolers to have freedom in Germany has been going on for many steps. It is our hope that this conference will simply assist Germany, but not only Germany, rather all of Europe and the rest of the world to take a large step in further recognizing home education a global education movement that is significant and that merits protection and recognition in its right."

 

Those single steps have already been made, and there are several of us who are in regular exchange with politicians and school authorities.

 

„Such a conference can provide more arguments and evidence as well as provide opportunities for relationship building between homeschoolers and education officials, not just in Germany, but from all over Europe and the rest the world."

 

At least for Germany I don't think this will happen. Home educators over here have to build a relationship with those authorities in their area, and it doesn't get them anywhere to have a chat with education officials from other areas.

 

The following does not directly relate to the conference, but it shows that you have been rather economical with the truth: You say that HSLDA was not directly involved in the Konrad case which produced a legal precedent at the European level and has created a huge barrier to winning the right to home educate in Germany. I don't think this is (as you tell me, and as you stated to a roomful of listeners in September at the ALE conference in Spain) a misperception which is out in the "internet world". Christian home education friends who have had close contact with HSLDA over the last decade tell me that your association was involved in this unfortunate case and interestingly enough evidence of this fact can be found on the HSLDA website:

 

„Konrad Case Appealed to European Court of Human Rights - Another Schulunterricht zu Hause member homeschool family, the Konrads, lost their final appeal before Germany's highest federal court. HSLDA is financially and strategically assisting their attorney, constitutional lawyer Ronald Reichert, appeal the case to the European Court of Human Rights." So HSLDA was „financially and strategically assisting" and therefore obviously was involved (whether this can be called „directly" or not doesn't make much difference to me).

 

 

I was surprised to read this in your email: "After Michael Farris and I came to Germany in April 2007 it became apparent that a new strategy was needed and so we developed one. This new strategy took into consideration this very fact you mention above and has guided our involvement ever since."

 

So you have developed a new strategy - but what is the aim and what are the means?

 

Presumably you want to help home educators in Europe. In the history of the West lots of people have wanted to help people in need in other countries. Over time, people saw that just giving money or imposing a preconceived system that worked in the home country, didn't actually work that well in the new country. It became understood that aid that would make a difference listened to the wishes and the concerns of a large proportion of the local movement, otherwise the foreign organization just decide itself what the local movement needs. This is simply imperialistic and has nothing to do with meeting the needs of or empowering the local movement. It also becomes like a military endeavor. Thoughts about the US-involvement in Afghanistan come to my mind.

 

From what we have seen with how GHEC has been organized so far I don't see any effort at empowering Europeans in your strategy and through HSLDAs actions.

 

From what I can see, you made a strategy, you got some people on board (on the board) and you are going ahead. J or D read some of the emails on the LU list and if they like something, like including someone from a country respected in Germany (Finland) then they take up that idea. But they basically ignore the main point of canceling the conference and letting locals change the perception of home education. I again refer to the Berlin wall and the big changes which were initiated by it's fall. This was because the people said NO.

 

And a last question: How do you think this conference can be called a "global conference"? Is it because there are board members from other continents than America and Europe? Or do you think there will be a broad range of home educating families from all over the globe who will attend this conference?

 

In my experience home education families are not the wealthiest in society. So how do you think people from Asia, South America, Africa or Australia will pay their travel expenses and the conference fees? So in the end, this conference will be more like a European conference with some impact from America, and as to the expert speakers, most of them are experts in their field but are not really experts in the field of home education.

 

Long time home educator and home education activist in Germany

Edited February 24, 2012 by Joan in Geneva
took out real names

[Caitilin]

The author sounds like a smart brave woman. It is unfortunate she is not receiving the reasonable and thoughtful response from HSLDA that her letter and experience deserve.

[rieshy]

Wow, well said. Makes me glad that I'm not a HSLD member. The whole issue is rather perplexing to me. Do they have a host of German speakers lined up?

[Joan in GE]

Do they have a host of German speakers lined up?

 

The speakers are aimed at convincing the German politicians and general German public, from what I know so far. But I don't know the entire lineup yet as I don't think it's finalized. I've heard that they want to bring in 'scientists' who have researched home ed, any politician that is pro home ed...

 

The only speaker who I find interesting so far is Gordon Neufeld (Hold on to Your Kids - his position is very supportive of home ed generally), but I have his book so that's enough...

 

Joan

[speedmom4]

When I began homeschooling in 2000 I was a member of HSLDA. I was convinced that it was necessary to protect my family from government intrusion. I was led to believe that I needed protection and that our families' safety could be at risk by choosing to home educate. Slowly I began to see that HSLDA uses a lot of scare tactics to attract and keep members. I am curious if they are doing this in Germany as well. Like most everyone else on this board I can't understand what the purpose is for having a homeschool conference in a country where homeschooling is illegal. They are putting homeschoolers in Germany at risk I'm afraid. But unfortunately I'm beginning to wonder if that's not the exact reason for doing so. I'm sure they will gain many new members in European countries if the conference is actually held.

 

Elise in NC

[Joan in GE]

I'm sure they will gain many new members in European countries if the conference is actually held.

 

I don't know if this is their motive because so far, to the best of my knowledge, I don't know any cases that they have supported that have won...

 

I think HSLDA have given some advice that has been helpful in the Netherlands in the past in court cases....but recently the Netherlands decided to try to get much stricter. (I'm not sure if it is finalized or not - maybe loesje can tell us)...It's hard to tell why they have cracked down but it could be due to integration issues - but I'm not sure if that is not politically motivated (completely separately from HSLDA) or not...Or did those temporary wins turn into more permanent losses? Over here they can make laws without people knowing about it....

 

Recently they made it illegal in Switzerland for a woman who is getting married to take her husband's last name, according to a friend of mine. (I can't keep up with everything myself...)

 

Joan

[In the Rain]

This is interesting to read. Thank you for posting the letter. I'm puzzled by HSLDA's motives. :confused: It seems like it would be dangerous for Germans to attend the conference. The general perception of HSLDA as a "right wing fundamentalist Christian association, disrespecting the rights of children" would even further inhibit participation.

[KnitWit]

I do not understand why HSLDA is not listening.

 

Honestly, this may sound out of left field, but I would like to know if Doug Phillips and Vision Forum are involved in *any* way. I might be crazy, but I think I smell a VF documentary out of this...

 

I just cannot understand why it seems this is being pushed upon people who don't want it.

 

I'm going to need to read this again...

[Joan in GE]

I just cannot understand why it seems this is being pushed upon people who don't want it.

 

There are actually some people who do want it...they are the people whose children are in school, going to jail for a month sometimes for taking their child out of sex ed classes....who I think would really like to home educate. But I think they must think that HSLDA is like a magic formula. Maybe they don't know all the cases HSLDA has lost or something....not sure there. Then there are some others living outside of Germany who would like to return who have wishful thinking about the situation. The thing is, as the Letter Writer states, she has experience that leads her to believe otherwise (My experience where there are similar situations in some of the German speaking cantons in relation to the illegalization of home education leads me to think the same)...And I think HSLDA is used to the way things work in the US....So you have people wishing to home ed and some who are living outside Germany who want to return hoping for the best. While there are people working from the bottom up in new ways who are really making a difference, yes in small ways now. Unhappily that was the way it was with the wall...no instant success until enough people had other ideas...

 

There is an interesting Master's Thesis about how the German judges make their decisions - their way seems totally capricious to me, based not on real thinking but on their own ideology...I'll have to see if there is some way of posting it on the net...

 

Joan

Edited February 24, 2012 by Joan in Geneva
correcting grammar

[regentrude]

The letter touches a very important point: one concern of German people who are against homeschooling is that children who are homeschooled are at higher risk of abuse, because it can go unnoticed - school is seen as having also the social function of giving abused kids contact to the outside world, a person to talk to, a watchful eye.

Seeing an organization who is actively fighting against any restriction on parents "right" to corporal punishment pushing a conference will just confirm those suspicions. As Joan noted, physical punishment of children is against the law in Germany.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Once we were at a party with a German judge. I was amazed at how different not only his perceptions of law were, but how different court proceedures seem to be between two modern, western, democratic countries. It was a good reminder that just because something is one way here, doesn't mean it's that way everywhere.

 

One little example was his explanation that he did not have a court reporter in his court to make a transcript of the proceedings. He took notes as the case went along and then made his decision based on those notes. Which means that if one side of the case thinks that the decision was poorly founded, there are only the judges notes to refer to in an appeal.

 

I think this may be one reason that I've read of Germans wanting to homeschool who brought along a non-involved friend to meetings with officials to take notes.

 

 

Something to keep in mind is that as court cases regarding homeschooling were being decided in the US, the momentum was for parents to have more and more authority over the schooling of their children. And this was based on some even older case law regarding the freedom of religious minorities to choose to opt out of school attendance (Yoder vs Wisconsin) or for religious families to choose parochial schools instead of public schools (Pierce v. Society of Sisters). In the modern homeschooling era (say the 1980s to present) the bulk of cases have been in favor of families. Wanting to homeschool or have religiously oriented instruction has not been seen as directly implying abuse of the child or their rights.

 

In Germany, the momentum of court cases has been to deny families the right to overrule the state with regard to education requirements. I haven't followed closely since about 2008, but off the top of my head I cannot think of a case where the family has won after going to court. Not even in cases that were not based on religious grounds. Not even when the school officials conceded that the children were being well educated.

 

For those interested, this is an English translation of the German Grundgesetz or Basic Law, which would be the German parallel to the US Bill of Rights. Article 7 covers education.

 

I really loathe the idea of a consortium of foreign NGOs coming to the US to lobby on something that is under US law (things like drug legality, euthanasia, blasphemy or gun ownership for example). I've had the opportunity to meet some German government officials. Some became quite good friends. I would wager that they were much more convinced by spending time with my homeschooled kids than they would be convinced by a lecture.

[KnitWit]

Not really wanting to go down a bunny trail, but this kind of reminds me of things that I read by Raymond Moore regarding Mike Farris and the start up of HSLDA *here*. I am not sure if I could find it again. Same thing...many, many already quietly doing their thing and dealing with issues as they came up and then others who wanted a big push and going on the offensive. I admit I am oversimplifying what I have read on all accounts...just noting the consistency.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Great letter, but it will fall on deaf ears. They don't care about what Germans want. They care only about their agendas. And, a PP was right. Their stance on the Rights of the Child and their defense of physical punishment makes them an EXTREMELY inappropriate entity to organize this stupid conference! But, they WANT to be the lightening rod for this, that way they can set themselves up as 'martyers for the cause'. :glare:

[Joan in GE]

regentrude - thanks for the support...

 

Once we were at a party with a German judge. I was amazed at how different not only his perceptions of law were, but how different court proceedures seem to be between two modern, western, democratic countries. It was a good reminder that just because something is one way here, doesn't mean it's that way everywhere.

 

One little example was his explanation that he did not have a court reporter in his court to make a transcript of the proceedings. He took notes as the case went along and then made his decision based on those notes. Which means that if one side of the case thinks that the decision was poorly founded, there are only the judges notes to refer to in an appeal.

 

I think this may be one reason that I've read of Germans wanting to homeschool who brought along a non-involved friend to meetings with officials to take notes.

 

Something to keep in mind is that as court cases regarding homeschooling were being decided in the US, the momentum was for parents to have more and more authority over the schooling of their children. And this was based on some even older case law regarding the freedom of religious minorities to choose to opt out of school attendance (Yoder vs Wisconsin) or for religious families to choose parochial schools instead of public schools (Pierce v. Society of Sisters). In the modern homeschooling era (say the 1980s to present) the bulk of cases have been in favor of families. Wanting to homeschool or have religiously oriented instruction has not been seen as directly implying abuse of the child or their rights.

 

In Germany, the momentum of court cases has been to deny families the right to overrule the state with regard to education requirements. I haven't followed closely since about 2008, but off the top of my head I cannot think of a case where the family has won after going to court. Not even in cases that were not based on religious grounds. Not even when the school officials conceded that the children were being well educated.

 

First thank you for that interesting information about the court system, etc.

 

Here's something that you maybe didn't realize - in Germany it is not a matter of 'not even' winning cases based on religious grounds...Germans have been told that those are the cases that are not helping the cause....In the US people have effectively used that argument but in Germany they are told they can teach after school...

 

But here's a paper from someone in German who does advocate home education (well I was going to post it but the server is down, so I will later) - if only the judges and officials could see his point. But according to the lady who wrote the Masters Thesis, the judges ignore the evidence and decide the case based on their own prejudices...

 

I've had the opportunity to meet some German government officials. Some became quite good friends. I would wager that they were much more convinced by spending time with my homeschooled kids than they would be convinced by a lecture.

Yes, I think so too. It is so easy to not really listen and even distort what you hear.

 

Joan