Vision Appt--Kinda Freaked

[Heathermomster]

With all the talk recently concerning Vision Therapy, I decided to speak with my son's optometrist about eye problems that may cause LDs. I ask if he could pre-screen. He told me no, but that he could perform the annual eye appoint and take notes that I could give to a specialist. DS had his eye exam this afternoon and weirdness follows:

 

He measures my son's binocular vision and tells me that DS has esophoria with a number of 4. The optometrist then states that he's curious to know which parent this condition may have been inherited from. He tells me to hop in the chair and then determines that I have esophoria as well and that my eyes are actually worse than my son. The Dude actually jumped when he saw how bad my eyes were. My eyes measure 5 or 6. This, the dear Dr., did not expect.

 

The optometrist then asks me about my education. I hold a BSEE. I read like crazy. I have always read like crazy. He ask if I suffered in school. Well actually no, I've never struggled in school, college, or otherwise. He then tells me that people with this eso business tend to be high school dropouts, waitresses, and criminals. That may be true...My family is filled with all 3 and I'm no kidding, the first college graduate.....

 

All of this business to say, I have scheduled an appointment to have my son assessed by a professional who supposedly tests and may provide VT.

 

The afternoon was weird and I'm hoping to lie down soon. DS heard the entire stinking conversation and at one point, I turned to him and told him not to worry. DS assures me that he's not concerned. I told him to absolutely not worry and that we'd deal with it...Thank-you for reading...

Edited February 11, 2012 by Heathermomster

[Susan C.]

Weird. Is this eye doctor certified by covd? (covd.org)

 

If you read like crazy, I'm not sure. Sounds like you weren't held back by whatever you might have. Dd18 read very slowly and could not speed up, so that is why I took her to VT. But bil visited recently, he has trouble with reading, and so does my niece. So I too was wondering about dd's problem being hereditary.

[stripe]

He then tells me that people with this eso business tend to be high school dropouts, waitresses, and criminals.

 

I find this characterization somewhat offensive and at least unprofessional. (And I also hope he gets his own food when he eats in a restaurant.)

 

I think it's good you've found out about your eyes, but I might look elsewhere for further eye care.

[momsuz123]

Good luck with everything! Please keep us updated. :grouphug:

[Rod Everson]

I find this characterization somewhat offensive and at least unprofessional.

 

Unfortunately it's accurate though. The optometrist wasn't saying that waitresses are the equivalent of criminals, nor that they are high school dropouts. What he was saying is that academics can be very difficult for people with poor binocular vision skills, and that shows up in where they end up.

 

And he's right about the criminals. A very high proportion of incarcerated people would fail a developmental vision examination, and have, when they've done them for studies. Ditto for the high school dropouts.

 

Rod Everson

OnTrack Reading

[Rod Everson]

 

The optometrist then asks me about my education. I hold a BSEE. I read like crazy. I have always read like crazy. He ask if I suffered in school. Well actually no, I've never struggled in school, college, or otherwise. He then tells me that people with this eso business tend to be high school dropouts, waitresses, and criminals. That may be true...My family is filled with all 3 and I'm no kidding, the first college graduate.....

 

 

 

If your problem is even more severe than your son's, and you have always enjoyed reading, it's entirely possible that you're, without even realizing it, using only one eye to read. You might think you're using both, but your brain might be suppressing the vision in one eye to stop all the confusion that results from poor binocular vision control.

 

And once you're down to one eye, there's no more confusion. This is why so many younger children with vision problems can be seen covering one eye with their hand, or their hair, or turning their heads to block the vision of one eye with their nose. They're physically trying to get down to one-eyed vision. But eventually, if the problem is severe enough, the brain will indeed shut down, or more accurately, ignore, the visual input from one of the eyes.

 

If you do get to a vision therapy department, have the above discussion and tell them you'd like to see how you read with the red/green glasses they most likely use. Those glasses will demonstrate whether you're using only one eye's input when reading, once you understand how they work.

 

Sounds weird, I know, but I've seen it, and a condition called Alternating Suppression is very common. I view that as a precursor to one eye shutting down later.

The afternoon was weird and I'm hoping to lie down soon. DS heard the entire stinking conversation and at one point, I turned to him and told him not to worry. DS assures me that he's not concerned. I told him to absolutely not worry and that we'd deal with it...Thank-you for reading...

 

Actually, if your son is bothered because he realizes he has a reading problem (I don't know if he is bothered, but if he is), then finding out that there's a physical reason for it, and that it can be fixed, can be very helpful, because most kids end up assuming they're just not that smart if they can't read like their peers, even though they're often just as smart, or smarter. They just have undiagnosed vision issues that never get caught, and therefore never get fixed.

 

Rod Everson

OnTrack Reading

[stripe]

Unfortunately it's accurate though. The optometrist wasn't saying that waitresses are the equivalent of criminals, nor that they are high school dropouts. What he was saying is that academics can be very difficult for people with poor binocular vision skills, and that shows up in where they end up.

 

And he's right about the criminals. A very high proportion of incarcerated people would fail a developmental vision examination, and have, when they've done them for studies. Ditto for the high school dropouts.

 

Rod Everson

OnTrack Reading

 

A high percentage of criminals are male, too. I think one has to be careful when talking to not confuse the issue.

 

That being said, certainly vision problems can make reading difficult, and those with a very poor education are much more susceptible to involvement with crime. That does not mean those of us with children with vision problems will be starting threads soon on what baked goods ship well to prison.

 

I also think equating waitresses with criminals and losers is offensive in a separate manner.

[Heathermomster]

All the facts and data aside, it hurts to have someone speak so candidly in front of my child. I truly try my best to avoid that. As DS ages, he realizes that there is a whole wide world outside that's unforgiving. I'm just glad my eyes are worse than his and he knows it.

 

As to my own vision problem, I've learned to put a book down and rest my eyes. My body tells me when to do so. Prior to children, I used to read for hours and to the point that I literally could not see. Whenever I get new contacts/glasses, one of the first things I do is thread a needle. If I can't, and this has happened before, I ask the Dr to lower my prescription. I quilt, knit, and read.

 

Blessings,

Heather

Edited February 11, 2012 by Heathermomster

[Heathermomster]

If your problem is even more severe than your son's, and you have always enjoyed reading, it's entirely possible that you're, without even realizing it, using only one eye to read. You might think you're using both, but your brain might be suppressing the vision in one eye to stop all the confusion that results from poor binocular vision control.

 

And once you're down to one eye, there's no more confusion. This is why so many younger children with vision problems can be seen covering one eye with their hand, or their hair, or turning their heads to block the vision of one eye with their nose. They're physically trying to get down to one-eyed vision. But eventually, if the problem is severe enough, the brain will indeed shut down, or more accurately, ignore, the visual input from one of the eyes.

 

If you do get to a vision therapy department, have the above discussion and tell them you'd like to see how you read with the red/green glasses they most likely use. Those glasses will demonstrate whether you're using only one eye's input when reading, once you understand how they work.

 

Sounds weird, I know, but I've seen it, and a condition called Alternating Suppression is very common. I view that as a precursor to one eye shutting down later.

 

 

Thank-you for explaining and providing the link. I'll mention the red/green glasses, and am PMing you now.

[funnygirl]

All the facts and data aside, it hurts to have someone speak so candidly in front of my child.

 

Unfortunately this happens all too often. We have FREQUENTLY had to stop physicians (pediatric specialists, no less) mid-sentence to ask that we continue the conversation when our dd is not within earshot.

[Barbara H]

Unfortunately this happens all too often. We have FREQUENTLY had to stop physicians (pediatric specialists, no less) mid-sentence to ask that we continue the conversation when our dd is not within earshot.

 

Again and again I've been stunned by what professionals will say in front of kids. Words we've heard include "often fatal" - seriously, it doesn't occur to you to maybe consider the child is listening?

[PeterPan]

Well now you know why we keep mentioning vision problems! And yes, stuff seems to run in families. Make sure you get some feedback on this COVD doc. Sometimes they're really good, but there can be bad apples.

[Heathermomster]

I've been thinking about this. My vision very occasionally causes me eye strain, and that's it. DS does very well in all subjects but grammar and math. Are vision problems selective? I would think he'd struggle across the board?

 

My son's binocular vision was checked a couple of years ago...Why wouldn't an optometrist speak up and say something?

[Rod Everson]

I've been thinking about this. My vision very occasionally causes me eye strain, and that's it. DS does very well in all subjects but grammar and math. Are vision problems selective? I would think he'd struggle across the board?

 

Actually, there's pretty good evidence that a child with poor binocular vision skills will overdevelop other useful skills, even other vision skills, such as peripheral vision as well as the ability to interpret architectural drawings. (See Growing An Architect.) I think it's similar to the blind child who then ends up with overdeveloped senses of smell and touch, because that's what he has to rely upon. Binocular vision problems make reading difficult (sometimes) and can mess with depth perception, making it difficult to catch a ball, or to perceive how far an object is away when you're walking by it (making you appear to be bumping into things a lot, or skirting them by wide margins once you realize the risk). I've actually seen kids change their walking gait following vision therapy, because they can finally "see" the contour of the ground on which they're walking due to better depth perception. Before, they would walk hesitantly, placing a foot carefully without committing, to ensure it was planted, and only then shift their weight, resulting in a very hesitant walking gait.

 

But then there's the kids with other vision issues, or who have adapted to handle some of the problems created, who are good athletes, so you end up with everyone presenting different symptoms. My rule of thumb: If your child is experiencing difficulty with reading instruction, get a diagnosis from a developmental optometrist as the first intervention, not the last, or worse, never. Personally, I think that would solve over half the reading problems.

 

My son's binocular vision was checked a couple of years ago...Why wouldn't an optometrist speak up and say something?

 

Good question with a complicated answer that I tried to explain in Why Such a Secret?

 

Rod

[Heathermomster]

Actually, there's pretty good evidence that a child with poor binocular vision skills will overdevelop other useful skills, even other vision skills, such as peripheral vision as well as the ability to interpret architectural drawings. (See Growing An Architect.)

Rod

 

More questions for Rod. The optometrist over-corrected my son's eyes to 20/15 on Friday. Do you recommend that? It seems wrong to me. If this eye condition leads to eye strain, why over-correct? I hate this because the Dr used up my vision insurance. I may be paying out-of-pocket to get another eye test. I'm starting to question everything.

 

You've given me much to consider. So that you know, DS periodically mentions architecture to me. He stated drawing 3-d pictures of airplanes and cars when he was 4/5yo. No kidding. A mechanical engineering friend of mine loaded, some very high end modeling software on our home computer. DS loves it. I used to let DS play with 3-d home architecture software when he was very young and loves modifying and designing house plans. I've never thought about spatial reasoning. I've been sewing on a machine since 3rd grade and have always loved puzzles. I've always been interested in the structure and construction of things...Go figure.

 

Thank-you..I feel better now.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Heathermomster

[Rod Everson]

More questions for Rod. The optometrist over-corrected my son's eyes to 20/15 on Friday. Do you recommend that? It seems wrong to me. If this eye condition leads to eye strain, why over-correct?

 

This is a completely separate issue, but a good one to consider. I think you're correct. When the eyes are over-corrected with a stronger prescription, vision tends to deteriorate over time, and then an even stronger prescription is needed in time, and the process repeats. With the consent of my developmental optometrist, I've purposely under-corrected my vision for years (my glasses probably make me 20/20-20/25) from what I could reach (on the order of 20/15 corrected) and my prescription hasn't changed for 20 years or so.

 

When you finally find a developmental OD, have that discussion with him/her and see if 20/20 isn't good enough.

 

You've given me much to consider. So that you know, DS periodically mentions architecture to me. He stated drawing 3-d pictures of airplanes and cars when he was 4/5yo. No kidding. A mechanical engineering friend of mine loaded, some very high end modeling software on our home computer. DS loves it. I used to let DS play with 3-d home architecture software when he was very young and loves modifying and designing house plans. I've never thought about spatial reasoning. I've been sewing on a machine since 3rd grade and have always loved puzzles. I've always been interested in the structure and construction of things...Go figure.

 

Thank-you..I feel better now.

 

You're welcome, and for the benefit of others, I'll explain my thinking here on the architect issue.

 

Essentially, kids with poor binocular vision sometimes have poor depth perception (not always, but sometimes, if their eyes don't coordinate well at a distance either.) So, they have to rely on other cues/clues as to how far away something is. The develop good peripheral vision skills, meaning they get good at taking in the big picture. They also get good at following lines of rooms, desks, etc., because those supply cues as to how far away something is, cues that people normally get by using their depth perception.

 

In other words, they get good at seeing a 3-D world in what amounts to as 2-D. Well, an architect, or draftsman, is required to convert 2-D drawings to a 3-D world, and vice versa, so it stands to reason that if you're doing that all day anyway, just to get along in the world with reasonable comfort, you'd find architectural drafting to be a piece of cake, whereas for most of us, it takes some serious training to catch on to. Make sense?

 

I often wonder if we shouldn't patch one of our kids' eyes for an hour or so occasionally just to give them a boost in that direction. Having to get along in a 2-D world for a time might develop some additional skills, just like blindfolding intensifies hearing and touching skills.

 

Rod

[SKL]

This is really interesting, in relation to my dd who had exophoria (sp?). Don't want to get into TMI, but her birth mom had no possibility of being a professional. Bio siblings both had delays. When my dd was 1.5, she used to pretend to be blind (who knows where she got that idea!) and walk around with her eyes closed. She was definitely in a different world visually from very early on. If I opened a book, she would pointedly walk away and find anything else to do. She had no interest in making "art" or any semblance of marks on paper. She was slow to learn shape matching and puzzle assembly. Wouldn't watch videos, either.

 

I could see her having trouble finding a career that would accommodate her lack of interest/ability in visual areas, if that persisted.

 

Thankfully, vision therapy worked for her. The doc tells me that her eyes now work better than average, physically. I'm a die-hard VT advocate.

[PeterPan]

You mean you got a scrip from the regular doctor? I would talk with the developmental optometrist before you have it filled. I had a regular doc totally miss dd's problems, and a few months later she got a scrip from the developmental optometrist. Sometimes the doc will have a different way of doing things.

 

As for why's and how it plays up, let the dev. optometrist explain. You have a ton of questions that are totally individual and that the dev. opt. (if he's worth his salt) can easily explain. Please go to a Fellow btw if you can. When you're a little more complex, you want the best doc you can get. Don't get some newbie who seldom does this.

 

They have tools like the Visagraph (infrared goggles that track your eye movements while you read), so they'll be able to tell you EXACTLY what is going on with his eyes. Also remember that how it plays out varies with the person. My dd and I have almost identical eye problems (astigmatism, things with our veins, etc.), but she had developmental issues in all the facets (convergence, focusing, depth perception, you name it), where I only had a few peripheral vision issues. It just varies, the joy of biology I guess.

 

You're anxious now because you only have partial info. Get a good developmental optometrist and let them sort through it. Then you can get your questions answered.

[Heathermomster]

You mean you got a scrip from the regular doctor? I would talk with the developmental optometrist before you have it filled. I had a regular doc totally miss dd's problems, and a few months later she got a scrip from the developmental optometrist. Sometimes the doc will have a different way of doing things.

 

As for why's and how it plays up, let the dev. optometrist explain. You have a ton of questions that are totally individual and that the dev. opt. (if he's worth his salt) can easily explain. Please go to a Fellow btw if you can. When you're a little more complex, you want the best doc you can get. Don't get some newbie who seldom does this.

 

They have tools like the Visagraph (infrared goggles that track your eye movements while you read), so they'll be able to tell you EXACTLY what is going on with his eyes. Also remember that how it plays out varies with the person. My dd and I have almost identical eye problems (astigmatism, things with our veins, etc.), but she had developmental issues in all the facets (convergence, focusing, depth perception, you name it), where I only had a few peripheral vision issues. It just varies, the joy of biology I guess.

 

You're anxious now because you only have partial info. Get a good developmental optometrist and let them sort through it. Then you can get your questions answered.

 

 

Thank-you. I'm utterly convinced. Blessings, Heather