Do you think there's an advantage to studying w/King James Bible?...

[Rhondabee]

I'm planning to start Rod & Staff Bible 5 next year (ds's will be in 5th and 8th), which uses KJV. DH and I usually read New King James.

 

So, I've been going through and marking things to align the questions to New King James - there's not *much* that needs to be changed. Then I had the thought that maybe doing the KJV (with the Thee's and Thou's) would make the medieval literature (especially Shakespeare) in high school a bit easier.

 

I don't know. I don't want to make things unnecessarily difficult. Thought I should ask here for your experiences...

 

Thanks, again!

Rhonda

[Jan P.]

I went to a CIRCE conference last summer. One of the speakers said that his students that used the KJV in their churches did better with Shakespeare than those who didn't use KJV.

 

FWIW,

Jan P.

[ereks mom]

She used to get bogged down sometimes with the differences in vocabulary, but she has sort of gotten used to it. We generally use the NIV or CSB at church and in our family devotions, etc. and EK uses the NKJV only when she's doing R&S Bible. Most of the time, that works fine because it's close enough to the KJV. You're right, though, that sometimes NKJV doesn't match up.

 

I keep a KJV Bible on hand to help out on the relatively few occasions when EK gets stuck and can't figure out which word they're looking for in a particular blank. Most of the time, another word can be substituted, but once in awhile they specifically want the archaic KJV word.

 

Sometimes I just let her skip over some or all of the questions in the Bible Word Study sections, depending on whether I consider the words important to know (such as "firmament", "countenance", "cherubim", "supplication", "swine", etc.), or I think the words are not-so-important (such as "pulse", meaning "vegetables"; "habergeon", meaning "armor"; etc.). It's arbitrary, I know, but I try to emphasize only the words she is likely to see in other contexts, and glaze over the words she probably won't see anywhere except the KJV, since it is not the translation that we generally use.

[Laura K (NC)]

I had them use Bible Gateway for the word studies. It has a bunch of different translations. That way they could compare the different translations in order to "translate" the translation. I like to do that even between more modern versions. It worked out well to use Bible Gateway for that class. I don't own a concordance or Bible dictionary since I have access to that site.

[Plaid Dad]

I think it's worthwhile for students to become familiar with the language of the KJV because of its literary influence. There are editions that footnote archaic vocabulary and grammar - very helpful if you plan to use the KJV extensively.

[Lori D.]

Not familiar with the New King James, but I find there to be enough "pro"s and "con"s with different translations that it's worth looking in two versions when studying a passage.

 

- King James is more poetic, a plus when reading the psalms and the prophets, which are often written in a more poetic style to begin with.

 

- King James vocabulary/word choice is sometimes closer to the original Latin than more modern translations. Also, if you want to look up a specific word in a Bible dictionary (I have an old "Vine's Expository Dictionary of the New Testament" for example), the King James version often matches up more closely and faster for some words.

 

- Modern translations are closer to my everyday speech and thought patterns, and so make it easier to understand more difficult/abstract passages of scripture (such as Romans, the Epistles, etc.).

 

 

Also, there are Bibles that have multiple translations on a single page. Also, you can look up a single passage on the internet and see different translations side by side. I believe there is some Bible software that does the same thing.

 

 

I find that looking up a few key words out of a passage in a good Bible dictionary to find out what *exactly* the original word was and all its connotations to be the most helpful part of Bible study, whatever translation I use. For example: when I looked up the word for "baptism", I found it came from the Latin word used by cloth dyers and meant "immersion", with the connotation that the cloth was fully immersed into dye so it fully and completely took on the dye color, retaining *none* of the cloth's original color. By knowing that connotation, I now have a wonderfully rich visual picture of a profound spiritual truth -- when we are baptised into Christ, we die to the old and rise to the new -- we completely "take on the color of Christ", with no retaining of our old original "color.

 

Just a few more random thoughts! : ) Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Rhondabee]

I keep a KJV Bible on hand to help out on the relatively few occasions when EK gets stuck and can't figure out which word they're looking for in a particular blank. Most of the time, another word can be substituted, but once in awhile they specifically want the archaic KJV word.

 

 

 

Did you follow the schedule in the TM's?

 

I'm thinking I'll split the first part of the lessons over two days (when they're reading and filling in blanks). I know every dc is different - just wondering if you've any advice.

 

Thanks!

Rhonda

[Michelle in MO]

advantages and disadvantages, like any translation.

 

I would say the key advantages would be that it's useful for further Bible study. Most Bible study aids are linked to the KJV---Strong's Concordance, Vine's, Thayer's, Zodhiates, and many of the commentaries on Scripture.

 

The KJV is very poetic, and some claim it is much easier to memorize from the KJV. I can see the point someone else made about the language of the KJV helping students understand Shakespeare better. Really, Shakespeare's plays and the KJV were written about the same time period.

 

If a student struggles unduly with the language of the KJV, I would allow him or her to read from a more easily understandable version of the Bible--perhaps the NIV or NAS.

 

The KJV isn't always the most accurate version of the Bible. There are discrepencies in every Bible translation. The KJV translators had access to certain Greek manuscripts. More have been discovered since then, and translation techniques have improved.

 

I personally like the idea of having a multi-version of the Bible. My husband owns one with the KJV, the Amplified, the NIV, and the NAS. I have the PC Study Bible, which is a computer-based Bible study program.

 

If R&S recommends the KJV and your children can learn to read well out of it, I would go with their recommendation. However, if they struggle too much with the language, consider the multi-version.

[Rhondabee]

I'm really starting to lean that way, and I'm thinking maybe I'll do a "Five in a Row" type of thing - start the morning by taking turns reading aloud the passage they're studying that week. (Then, they can do the workbook independently.)

 

I don't think just doing the workbook in KJV would be as effective - it the flow-ing-ness of the language that I find appealing, even more so than the literary influence. Of course, that could just be me being sentimental, as I always "hear" my Dad's voice reading the KJV - lol!

 

Thanks for the post!

Rhonda

[Rhondabee]

Well, I realized at dinner - hey, I can probably get a KJV pretty cheap (to use for the R&S study), *and* an NIV pretty cheap as well (to use during church). And, this year when they pack their bibles beside their still-sopping-wet-bathing-suits as they're getting ready to come home from camp, I won't flip a lid and lose my Christianity over it - LOL!

 

=)

Rhonda

[Miss Marple]

Professor Rufus Fears (Univ. OK) of the Teaching Company also praises the KJV due to its poetic language structure and literary influence. I was surprised to hear this while listening to his lectures in Books that Made History, Books that can Change Lives.

[Carol in Cal.]

When I was a kid, I studied only the KJV until college. I attended Lutheran schools where religion/Bible was covered as an academic subject, and memorization was stressed. I also attended church, Sunday school, and chapel every week, with at least 2 Bible lessons in each. Bottom line, I knew it really well.

 

Because of this, I had a HUGE advantage in high school literature. English language literature has so much Biblical allusion in it up through about 1950 or so that I'm not sure it can even all be annotated. Because I knew the KJV, which was the only common use version for several hundred years, I caught stuff that even the teachers missed. It enriched this study beyond my ability to express.

 

However, I can honestly say that I didn't fully understand the way the Bible fits together until I read the whole thing in the NIV version a few years back. With the KJV there were always things that I was sort of mentally translating into modern English, and that was distracting enough that, for instance, I never noticed the relationship between Ezekial and Revelation or that between the Pharisee and the Levitical prayer of thanksgiving until I read the whole Bible in modern English.

 

Bottom line? For literature, beauty, and lovely quotes, KJV is essential. For really understanding the Bible thoroughly, a modern translation is very helpfu.

 

For my DD, I have mostly used the NIV because knowing God and understanding His word is my priority. But, I also have read to her from the KJV from time to time over the years so that she would be familiar with it. And always, when I recite or quote something to her, it's in King James.

[Rhondabee]

Lori,

 

Did you have a guide that taught you how to study that way? If so, I'd love to know about it!

 

Thanks,

Rhonda

[ereks mom]

Did you follow the schedule in the TM's?

 

 

EK usually does one lesson per week. There are 30 lessons per book, so that's 30 weeks' worth of lessons. We school 4 days per week, so I just divide up the pages so that there's a fairly even amount of work per day.

[Colleen in NS]

Did you follow the schedule in the TM's?

 

I'm thinking I'll split the first part of the lessons over two days (when they're reading and filling in blanks). I know every dc is different - just wondering if you've any advice.

 

Thanks!

Rhonda

 

Rhonda,

 

What is the schedule in the TM?

 

I've looked at online samples of the R&S Bible for grades 5 - 8 and noticed that it said there were suggested schedules in the TM, but I couldn't find the suggestions.

 

Also, if you do a lesson per week, in 4 days, how much time would it take each day?

 

Thanks!

[Rhondabee]

Rhonda,

 

What is the schedule in the TM?

 

Also, if you do a lesson per week, in 4 days, how much time would it take each day?

 

Thanks!

 

 

The 2-Day is:

 

Day 1: Read/Discuss Intro; read some verses; assign "Answers from the Bible"

Day 2: Discuss other parts of lesson and assign them to be completed

 

The 3-Day:

 

Day 1: Read/Discuss intro; read some verses; assign some of "Answers"

Day 2: read more verses; finish "Answers from the Bible"; assign "Bible Word Study"

Day 3: Discuss other parts of lesson & assign them to be completed

 

 

I think I'm going to read all the verses out loud each day (kind of like Five in a Row) - but that will be as a "beginning our day" thing and not really part of their lesson. ETA: Hopefully, this will help the KJV begin to really "flow" for them. We'll see.

 

Then, I'll split the "Answers" part (Part A) over two days; B & C on one day (the B looks to be fairly short - similar to their spelling if you have that); then, D on the last day and try to finish the lesson in four days. Some weeks may differ - we'll see as we go, I guess. We are the type of family who forgets things that aren't done every day!

 

I'm finding it really hard to guess how much time it will take ds's (I *want* them to do the workbook independently - that's another "we'll see" issue - LOL!). It wouldn't take *me* that long to do it - I went over the first six lessons reading through all the verses in the NKJV and making notes where changes were needed in about an hour (?), but I wasn't writing the answers. Writing in notebooks is not a favorite activity of my ds's - LOL!

 

Also, some of the questions require inferencing, something my younger ds will probably have some trouble with at first - he's still a bit of a concrete thinker. I don't want to make this an onerous task, so I'll probably limit it to 15 minutes a day, even if that means I have to sit with my 5th grader and help him out a bit.

 

How is your planning going? I have the first six weeks in the computer for the basics and am doing Bible (obviously - HA!), Memory work, Art and Music now. Oh - I'd much rather just keep reading their literature than plan those!

 

:001_smile:

Rhonda

[Rhondabee]

Yes! My favorite version for "just reading" is actually the New Living Translation, because it phrases things so differently than either the NIV or the KJV, and so it brings new nuances/thoughts to mind.

 

=)

Rhonda

[Colleen in NS]

The 2-Day is:

 

Day 1: Read/Discuss Intro; read some verses; assign "Answers from the Bible"

Day 2: Discuss other parts of lesson and assign them to be completed

 

The 3-Day:

 

Day 1: Read/Discuss intro; read some verses; assign some of "Answers"

Day 2: read more verses; finish "Answers from the Bible"; assign "Bible Word Study"

Day 3: Discuss other parts of lesson & assign them to be completed

 

 

I think I'm going to read all the verses out loud each day (kind of like Five in a Row) - but that will be as a "beginning our day" thing and not really part of their lesson.

 

Then, I'll split the "Answers" part (Part A) over two days; B & C on one day (the B looks to be fairly short - similar to their spelling if you have that); then, D on the last day and try to finish the lesson in four days. Some weeks may differ - we'll see as we go, I guess. We are the type of family who forgets things that aren't done every day!

 

I'm finding it really hard to guess how much time it will take ds's (I *want* them to do the workbook independently - that's another "we'll see" issue - LOL!). It wouldn't take *me* that long to do it - I went over the first six lessons reading through all the verses in the NKJV and making notes where changes were needed in about an hour (?), but I wasn't writing the answers. Writing in notebooks is not a favorite activity of my ds's - LOL!

 

Also, some of the questions require inferencing, something my younger ds will probably have some trouble with at first - he's still a bit of a concrete thinker. I don't want to make this an onerous task, so I'll probably limit it to 15 minutes a day, even if that means I have to sit with my 5th grader and help him out a bit.

 

How is your planning going? I have the first six weeks in the computer for the basics and am doing Bible (obviously - HA!), Memory work, Art and Music now. Oh - I'd much rather just keep reading their literature than plan those!

 

:001_smile:

Rhonda

 

So then, do you think that one lesson, spread out over 4 days, AND done orally (I forgot to mention that!), could be done in maybe 15 min. a day? (Please say yes, LOL!) I'm asking because I've been wracking my brain for probably a year or more on how to incorporate Bible study into our kids lives. I showed dh the R&S samples, which I liked, and asked if he'd do it with ds, and he said YES! He doesn't want to learn how to teach the other academic stuff, but he's willing to learn to teach piano (he's a guitar teacher, so he's the musical one around here), and he has studied the Bible more than I have.

 

I had myself talked into buying R&S, then talked myself back out of it (and tried to think of how to do it on our own) because I've already bought a ton of books recently (gotta prepare ahead, y'know). But you may just talk me back into it.

 

Planning is going pretty well. I'm at a standstill right now, though. This is our first week off since March and my planning brain has shut down. So, we've spent the week learning to weave on cardboard looms (fun!), and cleaning and organizing.

 

I figured out how to make spreadsheets finally, and made up an academic week schedule and a non-academic week schedule (my kids still need some structure on our school breaks). Then I started to break it down further with mapping out the history plan, the science plan, the art/music/lit plan, and the basic academics plan. I don't plan each week, I just make a general plan like: 5 math lessons a week, 4 English lessons a week, 2 dictations a week, here's how we study history each week, here's how we study science each week, etc.. I might go further and ask the kids which subjects they want to do in each science book, but they might change their minds part way, so why bother. I'll just let them pick each week "which animal do you want to read about this week?" or "which part of this plant section in the book interests you this week?" Or maybe a week ahead of time so I can order library books.

 

I just have to finish getting these plans into spreadsheets so I can make checklists. And hope and pray it all fits into the time I have for schooling each day! It's always a balancing act here. If not, I'll have to refigure what's important and what's not. I AM finding that all that's involved in homeschooling is now a full time job for me. No wonder I've been so exhausted lately. Yesterday as I organized toys and crafts, and look into doing more organizing around the house, I thought, "It really is full time. Homemaking is full time, and homeschooling is full time. Which is why I can't keep up with the homemaking the way I used to do anymore." I'd rather devote my energies to teaching my kids. I guess if I can keep up with laundry, cooking, grocery shopping, washing dishes, and bookkeeping, I'm doing pretty well. And get the whole family involved in necessary cleaning. The closets and shelves can stay messy for a few weeks until we break from school, I just don't care anymore. I added more clutter to the yard sale pile yesterday. Makes for emptier closets and shelves, LOL!

 

It's funny, you're reading through the lit. - I haven't even started. I'm procrastinating. Procrastinating with Latin, too. Although I did skim through the first 5 lessons of LC2 finally, and thanked God that the grammar concepts were actually understandable to me now!!!! With familiar vocab, what more could I ask for. LOL! So I managed to fend off Latin for a few more weeks.

 

I've just really needed a break, that's all! :)

[Laura Corin]

I think it's worthwhile for students to become familiar with the language of the KJV because of its literary influence.

 

The RE programme that we are following uses a different translation, but we read the KJV first, then look at the questions/discussion in the curriculum.

 

Laura

[Rhondabee]

I thought, "It really is full time. Homemaking is full time, and homeschooling is full time. Which is why I can't keep up with the homemaking the way I used to do anymore." I'd rather devote my energies to teaching my kids. I guess if I can keep up with laundry, cooking, grocery shopping, washing dishes, and bookkeeping, I'm doing pretty well.

 

Yep, that's me, too!

 

I'm finally getting some outside painting done. (WAY overdue!) I just had so many thoughts/plans in my head for next year the last week of "school" that I dropped everything, took the kids to library, and used that week to plan. When you're planning in your sleep, you might as well go ahead and get it on paper - LOL!

 

Anyway, I'm hoping for 15 minutes. =) I'm sure my older ds will get it done in 15 minutes. It's my 5th grader that may need some "training". If it gets to be too much for him, I'll just let him work for 15 minutes and stop, and proceed at his own pace.

 

=)

Rhonda

[Reya]

- King James vocabulary/word choice is sometimes closer to the original Latin than more modern translations.

 

 

It does correspond much more closely to the Latin Vulgate translation, but the originals were in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Koine Greek. :-)

[Lori D.]

Doh! -- I knew that! : ) I was thinking along a different line, there -- of the Latin of the KJV WHILE using an older Vine's Expository Dictionary, which is more keyed for KJV. : )

[Lori D.]

Kay Arthur inductive Bible studies are helpful -- I think of them as sort of a sort of "intro to literary analysis -- but for the Bible". (lol)

 

 

Bible Study Fellowship International (BSF) is a non-denominational, 32-week long Bible study program which has you really dig deep in reading and thinking about Scripture, comparing Scriptures throughout the Bible with the passage you study each week, and in helping you think about personal application of Scriptural passages. You do the study individually at home over the course of the week, then come together once a week and share answers in a guided small group, and then hear a lecture on that passage from a knowledgeable teaching leader. Then you receive several pages of notes/commentary to further your study of that passage, plus you also receive the page of questions for your next week's study. Many BSF groups meet in the evenings, or also have men's groups or simultaneous groups for children or teens, so the whole family can go together. I did BSF for 9 years and really got a lot out of the notes and lectures, but especially the personal study format.

 

 

As far as personal Bible study, it's really not as hard as you might think. I've found it helpful to have an exhaustive concordance (to look up specific words in specific passages, or to look up verses on a related theme) and an expository dictionary of the Bible (which lists the word in its original language, its meaning, its connotations, and sometimes some commentary on how that word is used in various Scripture passages or gives some spiritual meanings of the word). Having several different translations of the Bible is also handy, so when I don't "get" a passage in one version, I can try another. For example, while its not as accurate, the Amplified Bible is nice, as it really expands the meanings of words and phrases in a very helpful way.

 

Also, the more literary analysis you do with classic literature, the more help those analysis skills are in helping you in Bible study -- you begin to see repeated and key words, themes and ideas. You begin to pick up on the symbolism specific to the Bible (example: oil and annointing with oil often spiritually specifically refers to the Holy Spirit and a special empowering by God's Spirit; oil was also used in ancient cultures as a physical healing and/or cleansing agent -- and so spiritually it can stand for spiritual healing/cleansing through annointing or pouring upon the head). Looking up key words like "oil" or "blood" or "love" or "peace" (and many others) in an exhaustive concordance, and reading through the passages that contain those words or ideas can also give you a picture of what they stand for.

 

 

Hope that helps, Rhonda! And hope you will really enjoy your Bible study journey -- it has been very exciting and enlightening and a real joy to me! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Reya]

Doh! -- I knew that! : ) I was thinking along a different line, there -- of the Latin of the KJV WHILE using an older Vine's Expository Dictionary, which is more keyed for KJV. : )

 

Got it! :-)