Advice for Piano direction / instruction?

[aprilinparis]

My son (almost 10) has been taking piano lessons for three years. He frequently imitates his older siblings' more difficult, classical pieces, and can play anything he hears on the radio/iTunes/etc. He doesn't just play the melody, but can figure out the chord progressions, generally without mistakes. He has also been playing a game with one of his older brothers - naming the note played without looking. Anywhere on the piano, he can identify the note. His teacher said we should look into further instruction, but I'm not sure where to begin... Any ideas?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

(We are in East Tennessee, so we don't have the benefit of being in a large city - I know it would be easier in Nashville, Boston, Los Angeles, etc...)

[zaichiki]

Are you near Knoxville? I would look into local music colleges or music programs at a local university.

Barring that, someone in the local Suzuki program may be able to give you leads. (You likely don't want Suzuki, but they would know a lot about the good piano teachers in the area.)

[Dmmetler]

There's a good music school with community and prep programs at UT Chattanooga, and I believe there's a program in Clarksville as well. I don't know if any of those would be near you, but they'd be places to look. I'm guessing that your son would best benefit by a prep program-something that would place him with a University faculty member, over the next several years, to transition into college level study when he's ready. Even if he's not planning to be a musician, such a program will really let him stretch himself and feed those gifts.

[quark]

My son (almost 10) has been taking piano lessons for three years. He frequently imitates his older siblings' more difficult, classical pieces, and can play anything he hears on the radio/iTunes/etc. He doesn't just play the melody, but can figure out the chord progressions, generally without mistakes. He has also been playing a game with one of his older brothers - naming the note played without looking. Anywhere on the piano, he can identify the note. His teacher said we should look into further instruction, but I'm not sure where to begin... Any ideas?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

(We are in East Tennessee, so we don't have the benefit of being in a large city - I know it would be easier in Nashville, Boston, Los Angeles, etc...)

 

What a wonderful gift!

 

http://www.etsu.edu/cas/music/

http://www.music.utk.edu/

 

I do wild keyword searches on Google whenever I am stumped by local resources and need more and have found helpful contacts this way. So I did the same using keywords like "Knoxville music program".

Hope it's close enough for you to visit and inquire. Perhaps someone from these places will be a good source of information?

 

When I'm very stuck for ideas, I also like searching Craigslist: http://geo.craigslist.org/iso/us/tn

 

I really hope you find something for your son that works. Good luck!

[aprilinparis]

Thank you (all) for the ideas - I think I'll begin with a few inquiries at the university (Knoxville), and go from there. I was just stumped! :tongue_smilie: Our current teacher is wonderful, but we need someone who can stretch him farther.

[zaichiki]

Thank you (all) for the ideas - I think I'll begin with a few inquiries at the university (Knoxville),

 

We were recently at U of T Knoxville for a viola workshop for my dd. They have a relatively serious music program there, so I don't think they'll steer you wrong.

 

There's also East Carolina (something) University... Is that the right name? I know a few Suzuki violin teachers who studied there. I would guess they'd also have a strong piano program or know of strong piano teachers in the area.

 

FWIW I agree that you're looking for a prep program or teacher. One of my kids is now studying with an artist level teacher who also teaches at a college conservatory. It's night and day. I'd highly recommend going that route.

[Guest C528]

My son (almost 10) has been taking piano lessons for three years. He frequently imitates his older siblings' more difficult, classical pieces, and can play anything he hears on the radio/iTunes/etc. He doesn't just play the melody, but can figure out the chord progressions, generally without mistakes. He has also been playing a game with one of his older brothers - naming the note played without looking. Anywhere on the piano, he can identify the note. His teacher said we should look into further instruction, but I'm not sure where to begin... Any ideas?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

(We are in East Tennessee, so we don't have the benefit of being in a large city - I know it would be easier in Nashville, Boston, Los Angeles, etc...)

 

The ability to name a note correctly without looking at the keyboard is called perfect pitch or absolute pitch. This is a very rare thing, even in the music world. People with this ability make excellent composers. I would see if you can get him some composition lessons. Call your local university or community college, or see if you can make a contact with public school teachers.

Something else to consider, piano is a very competitive instrument. VERY. If you are thinking this might be his path, as in more than just a hobby, he needs a serious teacher and should be practicing 3+ hours a day. You can check university audition requirements to get an idea of the level required.

Something you may not have considered is starting him on another instrument. Having piano background and an incredible ear (perfect pitch), he will FLY on pretty much any instrument you choose, especially the "more challanging" instruments like horn and double reeds. I mention this because piano is a very solitary instrument. As a professional, you play solo or you accompany (a GREAT money making skill, btw). As an instrumentalist, you can play solo, in small ensembles, in orchestras, bands, etc. There are many more opportunities to perform.

Let me know if you want any more info, this is my field!

[2smartones]

The ability to name a note correctly without looking at the keyboard is called perfect pitch or absolute pitch. This is a very rare thing, even in the music world. People with this ability make excellent composers. I would see if you can get him some composition lessons. Call your local university or community college, or see if you can make a contact with public school teachers.

Something else to consider, piano is a very competitive instrument. VERY. If you are thinking this might be his path, as in more than just a hobby, he needs a serious teacher and should be practicing 3+ hours a day. You can check university audition requirements to get an idea of the level required.

Something you may not have considered is starting him on another instrument. Having piano background and an incredible ear (perfect pitch), he will FLY on pretty much any instrument you choose, especially the "more challanging" instruments like horn and double reeds. I mention this because piano is a very solitary instrument. As a professional, you play solo or you accompany (a GREAT money making skill, btw). As an instrumentalist, you can play solo, in small ensembles, in orchestras, bands, etc. There are many more opportunities to perform.

Let me know if you want any more info, this is my field!

 

I was about to say exactly the same thing! My background is in music, and my college advisor had perfect pitch. It's a blessing and a curse, for sure! He was absolutely amazing, though! You really need to seriously consider forking over the time and money it'll take to hone that ability. There's a real future in music for someone with that depth of natural talent!

[catz]

Hmmm ... my son has perfect pitch too. He's advanced for age (working on Sonatas, Bach Inventions, etc), but is not practicing anywhere close to 3 hours a day! Maybe 1 hour. It's unlikely he will want to pursue piano as a career though. My son is funny because if we go to a concert or musical he'll rattle off the keys the pieces are in with good accuracy. He'll doodle out 2 handed versions of pieces he hears all the time. I didn't think this was that exotic? Especially in kids that start music training at a reasonably early age.

 

To the OP, my son has an excellent teacher that teaches Suzuki but he has a doctorate, used to teach at college level, and has a traditional background. I think the fact that he used to teach at very a high level (he still has many advanced and advancing students) has been a huge gift for my naturally musical kid. And the Suzuki piece has helped his ear development. His teacher is very balanced on approach. He teaches out of a large music school that has a conservatory prep program.

Edited February 3, 2012 by kck

[2smartones]

Hmmm ... my son has perfect pitch too. He's advanced for age (working on Sonatas, Bach Inventions, etc), but is not practicing anywhere close to 3 hours a day! Maybe 1 hour. It's unlikely he will want to pursue piano as a career though. My son is funny because if we go to a concert or musical he'll rattle off the keys the pieces are in with good accuracy. He'll doodle out 2 handed versions of pieces he hears all the time. I didn't think this was that exotic? Especially in kids that start music training at a reasonably early age.

 

No, that's not normal at all. Call the music dept chair at one of the colleges in your area and ask how many students are able to do that. It'll be a very low statistic... higher perhaps at an elite music school, but almost unheard of in the general population of music students.

 

I used to practice 3 hours a day, and if I still owned a piano (my parents kept mine when I grew up), I'd still do it.... not because I require the practice for an instructor, but because I truly love(d) it. Playing the piano is an escape for me like some people are with TV or chocolate or golf.

 

Practicing 3 hours a day isn't necessary if he doesn't want to continue with piano as an adult, but it'll definitely help to practice a lot if he wants to take a path of composition or something like that.

[zaichiki]

Hmmm ... my son has perfect pitch too. He's advanced for age (working on Sonatas, Bach Inventions, etc), but is not practicing anywhere close to 3 hours a day! Maybe 1 hour. It's unlikely he will want to pursue piano as a career though. My son is funny because if we go to a concert or musical he'll rattle off the keys the pieces are in with good accuracy. He'll doodle out 2 handed versions of pieces he hears all the time. I didn't think this was that exotic? Especially in kids that start music training at a reasonably early age.

 

What is it that you didn't think was rare?

Doodling out 2 handed versions of pieces he's heard?

Being advanced for his age with just an hour of practice each day?

Perfect pitch?

[Tattarrattat]

Interesting read. I know little about instruments. We were told by two music teachers that DS has perfect pitch. I thought that was uncommon, but not that rare. One of my nephews who's about the same age as my son also has perfect pitch, and he's very talented in music(playing two instruments at the moment).

 

DS has studied piano for less than two years, and his teacher said he has learned very fast(maybe late intermediate/early advanced), though I have no idea how fast is considered uncommon. He reads and memorizes music fast and sometimes tends to rush his playing when he tries to catch up with his notes reading speed. Per his request, he recently started violin lessons. Though both piano and violin teachers are wonderful, his violin teacher is more strict with practice and homework. I guess this is due to her own intensive training back when she was in Russia. DS enjoys both instruments so far, so we'll see how this goes. We have struggled a bit to balance practice time(one hour for each instrument) and school time. He likes to improvise on the piano sometimes, and I guess a lot of kids like to do that. I don't see him taking music path in the future because he loves math even more. But things can change.

[zaichiki]

We were told by two music teachers that DS has perfect pitch. I thought that was uncommon, but not that rare. One of my nephews who's about the same age as my son also has perfect pitch, and he's very talented in music(playing two instruments at the moment).

 

Tattarattat,

 

I noticed in your signature that your children study Chinese. Are they native/fluent? Chinese languages are tonal. Most people who speak tonal languages have perfect pitch.

[Tattarrattat]

Tattarattat,

 

I noticed in your signature that your children study Chinese. Are they native/fluent? Chinese languages are tonal. Most people who speak tonal languages have perfect pitch.

 

Chinese is my first language, but his Chinese is far from being fluent. He learned English first when he was little due to some speech delay. He's been learning Chinese with me as a second language. He enjoys writing characters, but there's a long way to go before he's fluent in speaking.

[zaichiki]

Chinese is my first language, but his Chinese is far from being fluent. He learned English first when he was little due to some speech delay. He's been learning Chinese with me as a second language. He enjoys writing characters, but there's a long way to go before he's fluent in speaking.

 

Okay.

 

I get the idea that it's an "in the ear" thing, though. If one has grown up hearing a tonal language and can distinguish between the tones, I think that's enough to "fit the bill."

 

Perfect/Absolute pitch is rare in general. It occurs more often in musicians who started their training young, but is also found out in the "non-musical" community.

[catz]

What is it that you didn't think was rare?

Doodling out 2 handed versions of pieces he's heard?

Being advanced for his age with just an hour of practice each day?

Perfect pitch?

 

Perfect pitch, specifically. I just thought it of an interesting quirk. He started piano at 5. My younger doing violin is developing some sense of it. She can id notes she regularly plays on violin (on violin or piano) and I suspect her range will grow over time.

[JeanM]

They are studying a possible genetic component to perfect pitch. If you scroll down to the "nature vs. nurture," in the link below, they talk about how much more likely it is to occur among siblings. I have been interested in this because I have perfect pitch, but neither of my dc do.

 

http://perfectpitch.ucsf.edu/study/

[Tattarrattat]

A music teacher once told me perfect pitch is genetic, but it can get lost if it hasn't been used much. Not sure if there's any proof on this.

[Jill]

A music teacher once told me perfect pitch is genetic, but it can get lost if it hasn't been used much. Not sure if there's any proof on this.

I always felt that "Absolute Pitch Memory" was a better term. Different tuning systems are used in different parts of the world so one has to be indoctrinated into the tuning system of one's culture and be able to identify it before one can be said to have perfect pitch. For this reason I can believe that it could get "lost" as well as acquired. I obtained excellent pitch identification after playing music for decades, some intensive practice years too - 6 hours a day on piano anyone? It didn't come quite as naturally to me as some I know but until I was improvising and using my ears, it wasn't required of me either and improv is what developed mine.

 

kck, music theory can be a lot of fun for someone with your child's proclivities. It sounds like his teacher could handle expanding on this. It's great for the brain regardless of whether he becomes a composer or not. The physics of music and sound are fun too. Think Albert Schweitzer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Schweitzer

[Greenmama2]

Perfect pitch, specifically. I just thought it of an interesting quirk. He started piano at 5. My younger doing violin is developing some sense of it. She can id notes she regularly plays on violin (on violin or piano) and I suspect her range will grow over time.

 

What you describe your daughter developing is excellent relative pitch. Perfect pitch is pretty rare but there's a grey area between perfect and relative pitch that blurs with practice and increased proficiency. Most music graduates would have a decent level of relative pitch and quite a few are indistinguishable from perfect pitch even if they didn't have perfect pitch as younger music students. True perfect/absolute pitch can be a handicap for a musician, it can make transposition or playing in another tuning system (A436 instead of 440 for example) extremely painful. I only have good relative pitch but I did my college aural training in fixed doh solfege and hearing someone use movable doh in a key other than C makes me very uncomfortable. Ranges from twitching to having to leave the room because I feel physically ill.

[Hoggirl]

Sorry OP - not meaning to hijack your thread.

 

My piano-playing ds can also hear any note and knows what it is. He can hear a piece of music and determine the key it is in. He can identify any chord upon hearing it. He can tell me if the strings on my guitar are sharp or flat when I play them b/c he knows the notes each string makes. In other words, I can tune to him! However, the thing I do not understand is that he cannot sing the pitch of the notes. If I say, "Sing an E," he can't do it. I thought people with perfect pitch could always do this. Now, he is NOT a singer. He sings in the church choir, but often says he is not a good singer. I don't know whether he sings well or not. At 14 he certainly isn't singing for me.

 

If he can do all of the above, if he truly has perfect pitch, shouldn't he be able to sing a note as well???

[boscopup]

True perfect/absolute pitch can be a handicap for a musician, it can make transposition or playing in another tuning system (A436 instead of 440 for example) extremely painful. I only have good relative pitch but I did my college aural training in fixed doh solfege and hearing someone use movable doh in a key other than C makes me very uncomfortable. Ranges from twitching to having to leave the room because I feel physically ill.

 

My DH has near perfect pitch (not quite true perfect pitch). I once tried to play Stairway to Heaven on my parents' 100 year old (and hasn't been tuned in 20-30 years) piano while he was in the house. He made me stop. The piano was actually in tune with itself at the time, so it didn't bother me, but it was a half step flat across the board. DH noticed big time, and it was like nails on a chalk board for him. :lol:

 

When I was in high school, an alumni of our band came to do trombone sectionals on occasion. He had true perfect pitch. It was amazing. He could ding his mouthpiece on the tile floor and tell you what pitch it was. He was legendary in the band for being such a good musician (he still plays professionally, I believe), but the perfect pitch gave him the extra cool factor. :D

[catz]

Sorry OP - not meaning to hijack your thread.

 

My piano-playing ds can also hear any note and knows what it is. He can hear a piece of music and determine the key it is in. He can identify any chord upon hearing it. He can tell me if the strings on my guitar are sharp or flat when I play them b/c he knows the notes each string makes. In other words, I can tune to him! However, the thing I do not understand is that he cannot sing the pitch of the notes. If I say, "Sing an E," he can't do it. I thought people with perfect pitch could always do this. Now, he is NOT a singer. He sings in the church choir, but often says he is not a good singer. I don't know whether he sings well or not. At 14 he certainly isn't singing for me.

 

If he can do all of the above, if he truly has perfect pitch, shouldn't he be able to sing a note as well???

 

That's an interesting question and maybe someone with a more musical background can weigh in. Can he sing a random note and ID it after the fact?

 

My perfect pitch kid can do this I found out not too long ago. He just recently started doing musical theater, but has never been in a choir or had any kind of voice training. Honestly, I didn't know he could sing until he went to an theater audition and was cast into a lead part in a children's production. :tongue_smilie:

[Donna]

My two youngest seem to have perfect pitch. My dd can pick out a tune after hearing it only a couple times. She can tune herself to 440 or 441 and knows the difference without a tuner and will tell me what note different "nonmusical things" are making noise in. She knows the note sound before the note name when reading music and can tell me what key anything she is playing is in.

 

When she was little it used to bother her when people played out of tune and it made for some interesting lessons for her on how "we do not hide our heads and cover our ears" when listening to kids play in group or masterclasses at camp. Now she is not as bothered but she knows when people are the least bit out of tune and has been known to re-tune her fiddle to sound like the old recordings of fiddlers we have. She is amazing at transposing music into different keys on the fly because she understands the intervals and just hears it.

 

She has always sang in tune even when only 11 or 12 months old. When asked to name a note while reading music, she will sing the note then name it. She started violin at 3yo so seems to fall into that group of kids who are statistically most likely to have perfect pitch.

 

My ds did not sing in tune as a young child. It was only in the past 3 years or so that his perfect pitch has become evident. He tunes without a tuner...convenient because he plays in a variety of tunings. He is very bothered by out of tune playing or when dd re-tunes her fiddle for a different/older sound. He corrects her tuning when she gets too lazy to fix it or just wants to bother him and plays with her strings slightly sharp or flat. He always knows the key tunes are in which makes him good at accompanying/backing Celtic music. He did not start guitar until 6yo and had a not very good teacher so did not learn much then took a time off so did not start serious music study until he was 9yo. So, he did not have that very early start in music training.

 

He now can sing in tune but this is a very recent thing so maybe for some being able to modulate the voice to sing the sounds they want takes practice or time to develop?

[Jill]

My advice to anyone with kids who are cringing at tunings outside 440, start exposing them to ragas, maqamat, and gamelan. Explain that different tuning systems and quarter-tones are beautiful. Our 12-tone system is so euro-centric and is not some pinnacle of musicality. Being so conditioned to it and having such good internal sound memory that one gets uncomfortable outside of it is self-limiting.