Does anyone know of a farm/ranch experience for teenaged boys?

[RoughCollie]

I have 3 14-year old boys and a 12 year old DD and a DH. After 13 years in this house, I finally got all of them to help me rake the yard. We aren't done yet.

 

Tonight we were out there for an hour. DD lost swimming pool privileges for 3 days because she wouldn't touch anything without gloves on and kept squeaking and squealing about *nature*. I sent her back inside because I wanted to get the work done.

 

One DS is small and scrawny, but willing to help, and he did. He didn't like the bugs and the sweat and dirt involved.

 

One DS is a hard worker, but he spends a lot of time making sure he's not the only kid working.

 

Another DS is just plain lazy -- work slow down time, complaining about the heat and the bugs and having to get up off his bottom.

 

I won't talk about DH except to say this is the first time in all these years he has helped with anything -- and so far he has put in about 2 hours of labor over 2 weeks.

 

They are all a bunch of sniveling sissies, I told them. We were out there for *1* hour, not all day. We went out at 7:41 pm, so the heat of the day was gone. I had no trouble doing the work of 8 people -- if I measure myself against the wimps.

 

So I'm thinking ... is there a farm/ranch that will board a boy (DD is too young) and have them work there for a month or two, to teach them about real work, to toughen them up?

 

If you know of a place, how does it work? Do the teens work for room & board, for money, or do their parents pay the farm/ranch place to take them?

 

Thanks for your help,

RC

[Julie in CA]

We do have a farm experience here, but I also have to motivate my own 3 teenage boys to work--I don't think you could pay me enough to take on more, lol!

Really though, my boys do get up and out to the farm at about 6:30 a.m. seven days per week. Probably most or all of the people who know my family would say that my boys are hard workers, but often it's still tough to motivate them. Behind the scenes, I basically starve them into working! The Bible says, "if any man shall not work, neither shall he eat." That's good enough for me.

Basically my boys are motivated by food. When they get home from work in the morning (about 9 a.m.) I have a good breakfast for them. If they don't work, they don't get breakfast. The boys have other dairy work and school work that can be done at flexible times during the day, but then they *must* be back for feeding calves from 3:30 p.m. to 5:30 p.m. If they don't work, they don't get much at dinnertime.

 

I think it would be hard to train kids (especially boys) to be hard physical workers if they don't see their dad doing that, but it could still be done. I'd wait till dh is out of the way, if he's not fully on board with the job himself. Then I'd totally crack the whip.

I'd probably tell the boys that you're going to make a list of the big jobs that need to be done. They must make a reasonable schedule for accomplishing the work a step at a time, daily. Then listen to *no* complaining/whining/excuses. The kids who do their daily work get pampered with their meals and relaxation time. The kids who don't do their work, or whine in *any* fashion, get to do extra. Stick to your guns, girl! I wouldn't be right out there with them either, but I'd be checking the quality of their work before they came in for lunch, etc.

 

It takes a while for anything to become a permanent habit, but cheerful, hard work is a really special (and often underrated) skill that would serve your kids well in their lives. Don't you need the outside of your house painted?

Maybe every window in the house washed?

Rain gutters cleaned out?

Cobwebs removed from the attic?

Ground tilled/prepared for planting a huge garden?

Cars washed & buffed to a shine *at least* once per week?

Raking the yard on a consistent basis?

Do the neighbors need work done?

I'd let the kids know that you're cracking down as a result of their attitude about hard outside work, and let them know that you'll ease up on the slave labor (just a bit) as soon as they've demonstrated that they know how important it is to be cheerful hard workers, and that they've gotten used to "doing what it takes" even when it's hard.

Your slogan for a while may have to be "no whiners!"

I guess what I'm saying is that they need to be taught (daily) the value of hard work, it doesn't usually just appear naturally, and that it probably can't be taught in an isolated one-week or one-month experience.

 

BUT--if you find such a place, let me know! It sounds like sending them away to be taught to work would be waaay more fun than the way I'm teaching it! ;)

 

Blessings,

Julie

[RoughCollie]

Thank you. I'll keep your suggestions in mind. I told DH that I am going to send the boys outside with jobs to do and not let them back in until the work is done -- they can do a 2 hour job in 10 hours, if they like, but they aren't coming back into the house.

 

When I thought of farming them out, I was thinking that they would work for someone other than me, and they would see what hard work really is, because raking and washing windows just isn't *hard*.

 

I am amazed by how many hours your kids work every day. Mine think if they have to work for an hour or two, that is slave or child labor (take your pick).

 

See why I think farming them out would do them good? They wouldn't want anyone else to know how wimpy they really are. And the #1 guy I'd farm out first, if I find a place, is my hardest worker. He needs to get a grip on reality.

 

Every single one of our neighbors hires a company to take care of their yards. I have never seen a kid in this neighborhood, and there are a lot of them, shovel a driveway or rake a yard. So my kids feel very put upon.

 

This week, the kids are going to finish raking, put our new, unused, 2 year old lawn mower together (the handle is separate from the body), DH will fill it with gas, and some MALE is going to mow the lawn. DH, can you believe it, has never mowed a lawn in his life. Well, neither have I, but my Dad had a rule against girls doing yard work. After raking and mowing, they are going to prune a lot of bushes.

 

Yup, sweat equity will earn them their food and their air conditioning! And I haven't forgotten about DD -- Miss Priss is going to have to relinquish her crown and join the common laborers.

 

RC

[Remudamom]

Snort! For a small fee you can send us your boys! We will make them get up before dawn and feed the cattle. After that, they can eat. Then they can go out and mend fences and watergaps, work cattle, look for cattle and check on cattle. They can sleep at our bunkhouse, which doesn't have a dependable toilet at the moment. There's no tv over there, but they'll be too tired to watch anyhow.

 

After all the cattle chores are done, they can go out in the summer heat and help mow, rake, bale and move hay. Sometimes we just eat baloney sandwiches in the field. Takes too long to stop and go back to the house.

In the evening when it cools off, they can go out with me and work the horses. I have six or seven saddles that need to be cleaned, the tack room to be swept out and the garage gets cleaned every week. Fifteen horses to be groomed and cared for. Chicken house could use a cleaning.

 

After a week they'll be happy to come home and wash your windows.

 

BTW- our triplets are two boys and a girl (14) and the girly of the bunch is like yours. Not outdoorsy. She's learned to tolerate everything quietly, except ticks, because the more she squeals, the more I find for her to do. The girls get it way easier than the boys though, they basically help with the house and the yard work. The guys only have time to work in the yard sometimes. The girls, 14 and 15, do all the laundry. Gather, sort, wash, dry, fold, iron and put away.

I do the cooking, and most of the kitchen stuff, but not all, because they need to know that too. (I already know how to do laundry, thanks.) All three of us dust, vacuum, put things away, do bathrooms, etc.

[RoughCollie]

How small is the fee? :001_smile:

 

It was you, my dear, that got me started thinking about the general wimpiness of my family. It's not for nuthin' that I call DH's car the wimpmobile.

 

Honestly, if something needs to be done around here, DH (and the kids) think we should hire it done. If we can't afford it, it doesn't get done.

 

Admittedly, some stuff needs to be hired out -- major plumbing and electrical work is something I won't touch.

 

Hence, I learn how to do stuff and get it done myself -- within time and material constraints. The big material constraint is that DH won't let me get a chainsaw. There are some trees that need chopping down. I got some of them with my pruning saw -- that took a long time and a lot of effort -- these were saplings, though -- nothing more than 4"-6" in diameter.

 

Meanwhile, if these kids grow up to be able to do practically nothing, they will be looking to hire it done too.

 

I just don't see how anyone, even rich people, can stand not to know how to do for themselves. What if they aren't rich someday and a light bulb needs to be changed?

 

Cows? Horses? Hay fields? Chickens? My kids have seen them on t.v. They have no clue, not one, about anything that doesn't occur naturally in suburbia.

 

They've also never been so tired from physical labor that they cannot move. Oh wait, yes they have -- the week they went to Little League camp -- they came back and could hardly move, they were so sore.

 

I swear I'd send you my best kid, Remudamom. Having to deal with the Three Stooges would send you over the deep end. :001_smile:

 

Heck, I'd like to come there myself and learn how to do all that stuff. Maybe you should open a camp for adults who want to be more self-sufficient. Certainly your lifestyle is nothing like the one I have here in boring suburbia.

 

Anyhow, I'm tired of this family being afraid of hard work. I told DH that I don't enough life insurance for them to replace me, so everyone better jump in the saddle and get to work. I had a double cardiac bypass a few years ago, and I am the last person in this family who should be doing half this stuff because of my heart problems! I am surrounded by healthy people who have no compunctions about watching me work -- it's like me when I lie on the couch and watch an exercise video.

 

I mean, it is pretty sad when every male in my family, except one son, asks me how to put leaves into one of those paper leaf bags. That is a no-brainer, and these aren't dumb people. I never had to take a raking lesson in my life!

 

RC

[choirfarm]

If this was the first time you asked it of them and they are already 14 and 12, then the patterns are pretty much already set. They are not used to it.. Is it REALLY a priority for you?? BTW, who mows your lawn?? Also, sending them out to do it without your supervising and telling them they cannot come in to eat until it is done is a recipe for disaster. My 13yo is very small and has been doing our hand mowing for the last couple of years. He did a small amount of the riding lawn mowing last year, but the mower kept dying because he was so small. So this year he mows most things except the backyard ( sloping and lots of holes from digging dogs, so I do it.) He is getting better at it, but still doesn't get around trees very well. He ran over a rope and we had to get it off of it. He ran over something else and so we had to talk about walking around the area and picking things up. It has taken lots of hands-on instruction from me. So for you to never require your children to do any of this and then be surprised and dismayed at their wimpiness was a little unlrealistic. You have trained them that way!!! My 6 year old is out with me pulling weeds and she loves to water. Make it fun (well as fun as possible) by enjoying conversation while you do these things. My 11yo just got the hand mowing job and is thrilled because only his older brother used to do it, so he sees it as a rite of passage (now the newness will wear off by the end of the summer, but he thinks it is fun and cool now).

 

So...is is a priority? If it is then make a list of things to do then they are old enough I would sit down and have a family meeting. Say I can really use your help with some of the things that need to be done around here. Plus, then you will know how to do it when you get homes of your own. Show them your list and possibly ask for volunteers for the various jobs. Yes even mine whine sometimes about it being hot, but I just ignore them with a smile and go on.

 

It would have been better if you had started them as toddlers, but since you didn't you will need to expect some resistance. You might also plan a fun family activity after a full morning of work. If they only do this once a month or so, then it will not ever get better. If you require this of them daily and it becomes a habit and you never give in and try to make it as fun as possible, then maybe...maybe they will quit whining and just get used to it in 6 months or so. When I started homeschooling my boys were starting 2nd and 4th grade. If you asked them at the end of the year what they liked least about homeschooling, they said in a loud voice CHORES. Now, why?? Because when they were in ps we were not able to do chores in a regular manner. If you leave at 7:15 and get back at 4 and then have afternoon activities and sports and piano practice there isn't much time. An occasional weekend around soccer or being out of town. They just weren't home to do chores. It was a very long year in that department. They had to do various chores EVERY day and they were not used to it. Now that they are 6th and 8th, they no long whine about doing their own laundry, the dishes, cleaning bathrooms, cooking dinner, etc. Now their rooms are a constant battle.:D But it is an expected part of our routine. You will have A LOT more retraining to do at 14 and 12. It was horrible for me at 8 and 10 and I would imagine this would be worse. You just cannot take it personally. This is how you have trained them to act. You haven't expected anything from them (at least of the outside variety), so you cannot be surprised that they balk now. They aren't used to it!!! So put a smile on your face and your training tools on and get busy, if you REALLY want it.

 

Christine

[RoughCollie]

Choirfarm, a landscaping company has always mowed our lawn. DH refuses to. He finally caved in and bought a lawnmower a couple of years ago, but he wouldn't use it. Now I am going to put it together, with the kids, and they will mow the lawn (after the raking is done).

 

There was a period of time, when the kids were 5-10 years old when I was very ill with what turned out to necessitate emergency cardiac bypass surgery. Those years, I was doing well to homeschool and get food on the table. I didn't do regular yard work because I couldn't -- I was out of breath just climbing 6 stairs. I tried, because I thought I was just being lazy, but honestly not much got done. DH didn't help because he was never home (he always works 7 days a week) and he thought I was lazy.

 

OTOH, I did have 4 kids the same age to deal with, and I was not cut out for it, believe me. I had no clue how to raise kids, and I am here to tell you that the books were wrong -- I read every one of them that were out at the time. I made this mess of my kids in isolation, too.

 

Also, DH does not know how to do anything around the house. He is a firm believer in hiring things done and if you can't afford to do that, then whatever it is doesn't get done. The entire house and yard can go to pot, and he doesn't seem to notice or care.

 

You are right, this is how they have been trained to act, and I have to undo it.

 

RC

[Sophia]

RC, I think you're a great mom to address your dc's work ethic and teach them to not be afraid of physical work.

I wonder if you know someone you can "apprentice" them to for the summer?

Maybe a single mom at church or elsewhere in the community who needs help with yardwork?

The line about how to put leaves in a bag made me laugh and I suspect they were just trying to make things hard for you.

I'd work them all summer long for a set period of time until it became second nature.

Yes, it would have been better to start young, but it's never too late to learn how to work!

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

I know what you mean. My 14yo was begging me to help find him a job. Well I found out that some of his friends are getting paid to pick vegetables for a local farmer on Friday mornings. Does he want to do that? No. It's too much like weeding the garden. :-P

[Remudamom]

RC, we have almost matching sets of kids, triplets with a sister just 18 months different. Our sis is older instead of younger though, and we have an older son too.

 

We had a time where I couldn't do much either, because of my arthritis. That's when my girlies really learned how to keep house. Mil would come over in the mornings and get things started, and the girls would have to push me around in an office chair, and even fix my hair for me. It took quite a while for me to get back on my feet, but we finally found meds that worked.

 

Our boys are having an easier time than usual right now because we've had so much rain that the ground can't soak it up. It's like walking through a swamp here.

 

When it dries up I'll follow them around and document what they do, and you can threaten your boys with that!

It's got to be hard when they don't see their dad doing it.

 

And rich people? That's how you get rich, by learning how to do things yourself. It's a mindset, a way of life. You're right to make those boys work, I think the most important thing boys can learn is to get the job done. Do what it takes. No matter what the job or the obstructions. I was easier on them when they were younger, but 14 is old enough. My usual answer now is "I don't know how to manage that, figure it out yourselves."

 

They really helped me out last night. One of them saw a horse walk by his window after dark, while it was storming, and without being asked they both got their boots on, went out into the rain and put the horse back in. Then they secured the gate. Of course, after that they danced in the rain and came in soaking wet. Oh well, we're getting there.

[WTMindy]

I would probably be the wimpy one on our family, but we have some property where we have planted a huge garden. My dh LOVES to work outside and he gets our kids working hard out there. It almost makes me feel bad for them sometimes (and for myself too, truth be told!) but I totally hear what you are saying and appreciate the fact that they are learning to work hard. There is nothing like "farming" for teaching hard work.

[Colleen]

I've read your post twice and my heart truly goes out to you. I've only skimmed the replies, though, so pardon me if I'm being redundant. I don't believe farming your kids out in order to have someone else instill a work ethic in them is the solution. I hate to say it, because I don't want to discourage you, but I truly do believe this kind of thing starts at home, and early on. There's never been a time that my boys haven't contributed to the work here ~ and I have to admit that they never complain along the way. Because we do own and operate a dairy, they see their father engaged in a great deal of manual labor; that does make an impression on boys, so you're in a tough spot, given that your husband doesn't set that example. My three older boys ~ including the eight year old ~ are up each morning at 6:00 a.m. and shortly thereafter head out for an hour and a half or so. They do a variety of other farm-related chores at other times as well.

 

But I don't think one has to own a farm, or work on a farm, in order to develop a work ethic. For a long time, my husband and I were the ones who mowed the lawn ~ and we have a lot of lawn! ~ but now the two older boys do it. They do that every single week and it takes them a few hours each time. I'm into gardening, but at this point, I primarily focus on my flower beds because my oldest, of his own volition, has taken charge of the vegetables. My little boys help him ~ again, enthused by example. I don't have any chore charts or such. Everyone here knows that work ~ inside or outside ~ is part of life and we just get it done.

 

The challenge for you is to instill that work ethic in your own children when they've been allowed all these years to turn a blind eye to the necessity and value of labor. It sounds to me like they've been coddled, and that's hard to undo. I'm proud of you for recognizing the problem and taking it seriously! Is your husband on the same page? I wonder if the two of you shouldn't have a long talk wherein you share your heart ~ ask him to partner with you in setting an example for your children, helping train them to change their ways. Did your dh have any mentors in his own life who taught him the value of hard work? Is there any facet of his life that does require hard work? I mean, sure, one can hire a lawn service and so on ~ maybe. Who knows if your children will be in a financial position to do that. Who knows if they'll live in a place where such services are available. Why not at least learn how to do something oneself before paying someone else to do it? And regardless of where your children live as adults, regardless of what they do with their lives, knowing how to get a job done ~ whatever that job may be ~ without whining and moaning will be a lifelong asset to them. Does your dh truly not believe that? (Rhetorical question. You needn't answer, as I don't want this to become a discussion about your dh. Just trying to give you some support in conversing with him about this subject.)

 

Then, too, you need to step aside and not do the work for them. I frankly can't fathom having mom do the bulk of the manual labor when a cardiac bypass is in her health history. But that's to be expected when expectations of the other family members is so low. Your daughter whined, for example, and you sent her inside b/c you wanted to get the work done. She got the message loud and clear: "When I whine and act like a princess, I get my way." It may be easier in the short run, but in the long run, you're shooting yourself in the foot by rewarding her for that kind of nonsense.

 

Bottom line, it's going to take a whole lotta retraining, and it likely won't be painless. I'd expect the best and turn a deaf ear to the worst. Sit down with the kids, explain the new normal, and explain your reasons for caring about this in the first place. That is, it's not just about getting a job done; it's about developing a work ethic. Have the list of summer jobs in hand and make it clear that those jobs are going to be tackled by anyone who wants to continue enjoying the privileges of the family. Don't be a witch about; rather, make it sound like a great adventure.

 

Best of luck to you. You are so right to address this now. It won't be easy, but in the long run, your children will thank you. You go, girl!

[Danestress]

I personally would not make any one chore a "group effort." I would put one child in charge of raking, and he's to get it raked - finish the job - before he comes in. Or you could divide the yard in half if it's big.

 

Another child could be in charge of cleaning outside window sills - or cutting back bushes - whatever. But I find that it's really hard if a job is shared between a number of children, because it does end up being more about the bossy child policing the lazy child.

 

I think I would just generate a work list, divide it as evenly as you can, and make each child finish his or her obligation. I would have made DD finish her job. I just wouldn't have stayed around to listen to her complain about it.

 

But I don't have much advice beyond that. My DH has a killer work ethic, but we aren't running a farm. We just live in the burbs. To me "work ethic" is about doing what needs doing - whether it's raking or folding laundry. I don't let anyone decide that he or she is "above" any particular type of work.

[Alice]

I think the above posters gave good advice about developing a work ethic at home. I don't really feel qualified to speak about that since I have small kids and it's easy for me to wax eloquent on theory but I haven't yet BTDT.

 

But...if you really want to look into a farm...here is one in Virginia that has apprenticeships. They have a one year apprentice program and also a summer program. http://www.polyfacefarms.com/apprentice.aspx. It's a very interesting farm run by Joel Salatin and family (I'm pretty sure they are homeschoolers). They are the farm feature in Michael Pollen's Omnivore Dilemna (if you've read it or heard about it). The website talks about their farm principles and the apprentice program.

[Anne]

Roughcollie,

 

I think your kids are old enough that you should also be very upfront with them about why you believe it is important for them to learn these things. They may not *like* it - but they ought to be able to *understand* it.

 

Will your dh support you in this? Will he tell the boys that he thinks it's important, even if he doesn't actually do the chores? I think it would be hugely helpful if you can get him to be at least verbally supportive.

 

Wishing you success in this new venture!!! :)

 

Anne

[Colleen]

I personally would not make any one chore a "group effort."...I think I would just generate a work list, divide it as evenly as you can, and make each child finish his or her obligation.

 

Good point. Learning to cooperate on a group job should be addressed, too, but for now, it'd likely be easier to give each child his/her own task.

 

To me "work ethic" is about doing what needs doing - whether it's raking or folding laundry. I don't let anyone decide that he or she is "above" any particular type of work.

 

Yep.

[Julie in CA]

Also, sending them out to do it without your supervising and telling them they cannot come in to eat until it is done is a recipe for disaster.

 

I don't agree with this--obviously, lol!

It's only a recipe for disaster if they truly don't know and cannot possibly guess how to do the job on their own. Let's face it, none of the tasks mentioned are rocket science. I'm certainly not against showing a kid how to do a job before setting them to work on their own, but by giving in to the idea that they must be supervised throughout every task the dc have a *much* higher chance of Mom taking the responsibility for seeing that it gets done. That kind of defeats the purpose. As long as the kids are physically and mentally able to do the task, part of what's important about training them in work ethics is placing the responsibility squarely on their shoulders.

The specific situation mentioned was raking and putting leaves in bags. There is no way that kids the age of the original poster's need to be supervised in doing that, other than a direction when they start, about how she'd like it done.

[Margaret in GA]

Unfortunately, your children are probably not legally old enough to work on a farm -- so much equipment, etc that would be considered hazardous.

 

My boys do a lot of work, but my oldest (14) is our only girl and frankly, I've been really bad about making her do the same amount of manual labor outside as the boys and thus, she's our lazy one. This summer I decided to change all that and she's been quite busy with a variety of chores, including painting our board fence. We've all been very surprised at how well she's done and how she's no longer complaining about it. I think even she enjoys doing the work now. After all, it's kind of nice to do "real" stuff.

 

Anyway, find some "real" stuff. Make your kids do it. Everyone will be happy, even though they'll complain at first.

 

Margaret

[choirfarm]

I don't agree with this--obviously, lol!

It's only a recipe for disaster if they truly don't know and cannot possibly guess how to do the job on their own. Let's face it, none of the tasks mentioned are rocket science. I'm certainly not against showing a kid how to do a job before setting them to work on their own, but by giving in to the idea that they must be supervised throughout every task the dc have a *much* higher chance of Mom taking the responsibility for seeing that it gets done. That kind of defeats the purpose. As long as the kids are physically and mentally able to do the task, part of what's important about training them in work ethics is placing the responsibility squarely on their shoulders.

The specific situation mentioned was raking and putting leaves in bags. There is no way that kids the age of the original poster's need to be supervised in doing that, other than a direction when they start, about how she'd like it done.

 

Yes, that is my point. If she tells son b to rake the leaves and son b to weed and son c to mow and then daughter to sweep and then just leaves them it is unlikely to be done correctly. I would show them how to do it. Example, they can't do the leaves, then I show them how to do a section, where to put the bag, then I dump it back out, WATCH them do it. Give them pointers and then have them report to me when they think they are finished. I bet they haven't done it completely (mine still don't.) You point out the areas they need to finish and then have them report to you. Yes, it takes longer this way but eventually they see how it should be done and then after a time or two of supervising them this way you give penalities. If I come and inspect it and it is not done correctly, you lose computer for a week. If you whine, you lose computer for a week, etc. I can't imagine how hard it is with your health problems and i'm surprised they haven't pitched in before this. My elderly father lived with us for 9 months and my great grandmother off and on and plus my fil was in intensive care and the boys had to take a lot of responsibility because I made them because I refuse to be a matryr and put it all on myself. I'm glad you see what they need to do, now it is just a matter of making them.

 

Christine

[RoughCollie]

Thank you all for your help and suggestions.

 

I am going to break down the projects into one portion for each kid. I am also going to have a talk with them -- again -- about working hard and the benefits therefrom.

 

Next week, 2 of the kids are going to Atlanta to visit my Mom for 3 weeks or so, and it will easier to deal with the remaining two by themselves for a change. The 2 who are staying home are Miss Priss and Mr. Slow and of the 4 kids, these are the ones who do the least around here. I plan to whip them into shape (not literally) during this time, and then concentrate my efforts on the others.

 

This week, the kids will do the raking, mowing and pruning, along with cleaning DH's bathroom and car (for his Father's Day and birthday gifts from them). They want to buy him presents with my money, but no can do.

 

Thank you again for your help.

 

RC