How to choose a school district?

[Renee in NC]

My dc will be going to school next year. I am currently working on getting my CPA license and plan to go to work full-time next fall.

 

We currently live in a very bad school district. There are some pockets of good, and I plan to apply for some of these (magnet schools, year-round schools, charter schools, etc.) My dc want to stay here (because they are tired of moving.) I am open to that possibility - it *would* be the easiest answer!

 

I am looking in other areas, too. My approach has been to look at school districts within a 30 mile driving radius of various cities. I have looked on greatschools.org for rankings, but that isn't necessarily the whole picture, KWIM? (According to their ranking, our current zoned elementary school is a 1.:001_huh:)

 

What other ways can I research school districts when I can't ask parents first hand? What really makes a school undesireable? The greatschool rankings are based on test scores, which can be misleading.

 

Any insight would be appreciated!

[snowbeltmom]

We made the mistake of evaluating school systems based on the published state rankings and the fact that the public school was listed in Newsweek's annual list of "Top Public Schools". If we had a do-over I would do the following:

 

1. Ask to see the school's College Board Summary Report. Unlike the Newsweek's list which only takes into account how many AP tests are taken at a high school, the College Board Summary Report lists the test scores grouped by test and teacher. If I would have known that the highest score on the AP Calc exam was a single "3", followed by one "2" and the rest "1's (a college F) I would have realized immediately that the math program was horrid and would have not moved into this district.)

 

2. Ask to see high school course catalog. Then ask a couple of follow-up questions: Are all of the AP classes listed offered each year? (AP Chemistry is not being offered at our p.s. this year even though it is listed in the course catalog.) Do students have any trouble getting the courses that they request? (The dd of a friend wanted to take French II. That class was full, and she had to take Life Studies, where they learned how to impress a date (seriously):confused:, instead.)

 

3. For younger grades, ask to see the school's grade/subject acceleration policy. Then take it a step further and ask how many students each year are accelerated. (I wish I would have asked this question. In my p.s., no one had ever been accelerated - Huge Red Flag.)

 

ETA: The parents who send their kids to our public schools think that the schools are absolutely wonderful. Try to find those families that have pulled their kids out of the public school for another perspective.

Edited December 30, 2011 by snowbeltmom

[Renee in NC]

In our case, acceleration, AP course, etc. are not applicable except in the case of one of my 2nd graders.

 

I have taken a look at high school course catalogs, but I am seeking places with a strong vocational track with apprenticeship/internship possibilities.

 

And here, even the parents who send their kids to most of the public schools think they are horrible! They just don't feel like they have many options. The year-round school we can lottery into has a great reputation. Most people who care about these kinds of things and who can find an alternative to the zoned school do. The middle school has an overall good reputation (one of the two best MS in county), but the high school has a bad reputation.

 

Generally, kids who stay out of trouble don't have problems at the high school (from what I have been told) but the teaching/academics are strongly impacted by the discipline problems, especially in the general level classes.

 

I don't really want to stay here for these reasons, but don't want to eliminate the possibility all together because my dc really don't want to move again (we've moved 3 times since 2008!) They are starting to have friends here, get settled, etc.

[MBM]

My dc will be going to school next year. I am currently working on getting my CPA license and plan to go to work full-time next fall.

 

What other ways can I research school districts when I can't ask parents first hand? What really makes a school undesireable? The greatschool rankings are based on test scores, which can be misleading.

 

I'd suggest trying to attend some of the PTA meetings, even if your child is not enrolled, so you can get some sense of issues and possibly meet the people who show up to discuss them. These individuals are often good sources of information as to what's happening. Talk to anyone who might know the inside scoop -- other parents, teachers, administrators. If you already have some idea about the schools, the next step is to find parents who've navigated them. If you have to put your kids in a not-so-good school, approach teachers empathetically but with the intention of getting what your child needs.

 

 

A book you might find helpful is The Educated Child: A Parent's Guide From Preschool Through Eighth Grade by William Bennett, Chester Finn, and John Cribb. They explain how to work with a school that is not doing well.

 

HTH. Good luck with finding the right school and with your CPA, Renee! :)

[Renee in NC]

Thanks!

 

Those are some good ideas - PTA, looking at the school calendar, etc.

 

I've analyzed the test scores in various ways to get to the underlying issues. One problem with this is that *my* dc wouldn't pass the state tests at this point! In addition, my soon-to-be high schooler would likely be in the double period remedial classes. It's hard for me to judge based on that EXCEPT that the more students who have learning issues, the less resources that will be available to my students.

 

Safety is a big issue here. The gangs in the high school are a real problem. However, I have been told that as long as my son stays away from the gangs, he won't have a problem. Most of the crime incidents are drug-related, but some are weapons violations. A student was stabbed in the hallway last spring, but from all reports it was intentional and directed at him (not just random violence.) The crime/violence rate per 100 students is twice the state average (3 incidents per 100 students versus 1.52 state average)

 

This high school ranks in the top 10% of high schools according to Newsweek.:confused:

[Disney Dreaming]

Are you looking to move out of state? I will tell you all of our schools from primary to high school are ranked between 8 and 10 on greatschools.org. We are in a smaller community(the bigger city next to us have schools ranked between 2 and 6).

Edited December 30, 2011 by ugamom11

[Renee in NC]

Are you looking to move out of state? I will tell you all of our schools from primary to high school are ranked between 8 and 10 on greatschools.org. We are in a smaller community(the bigger city next to us have schools ranked between 2 and 6).

 

We are open to Georgia, Tennessee, the Western side of Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and West Virginia. Possibly Eastern Kentucky.

 

I want a 30 mile commute to be 45 minutes or less and we need a decent cost of living to wages ratio.

 

It's funny - the town next to this city has great schools, too. We just can't afford to live there! :tongue_smilie:

[Roadrunner]

Thanks!

 

Safety is a big issue here. The gangs in the high school are a real problem. However, I have been told that as long as my son stays away from the gangs, he won't have a problem. Most of the crime incidents are drug-related, but some are weapons violations. A student was stabbed in the hallway last spring, but from all reports it was intentional and directed at him (not just random violence.) The crime/violence rate per 100 students is twice the state average (3 incidents per 100 students versus 1.52 state average)

 

This high school ranks in the top 10% of high schools according to Newsweek.:confused:

 

:ohmy::ohmy:

I would run!!!!!

There has got to be a school that doesn't have gangs around there. I always hear such wonderful things about Durham.

[EmilyK]

Where do the Duke profs and the like send their kids to school? Are they all in private schools?

 

Are the Raleigh schools any better? I assume Chapel Hill is an expensive place to live.

 

I've always assumed college towns have decent public schools. At least that was true a generation ago when my husband was growing up and his dad was a professor.

 

I loved Durham when I lived there but it was way pre-kids.

[Renee in NC]

:ohmy::ohmy:

I would run!!!!!

There has got to be a school that doesn't have gangs around there. I always hear such wonderful things about Durham.

 

Wonderful things about Durham?!?!?! Okay, yes, it is the new "in" place to live, but I don't think those people have kids.:lol: Actually, the southwestern part of the county is much, much better, but the cost of living is much higher.

 

Yes, there are schools without gangs (or at least less of a gang presence.) One is arts-focused (lottery only and not a good fit for my ds.) He could possibly lottery into two others based on Career Cluster. One has Biotechnology or Animal Science and the other has pre-Engineering. He has to lottery in to those and the numbers trying are high and he would spend his high school years focused on something he isn't interested in at all (if he doesn't stay in the career program, he has to go back to his base school.) It makes more sense to change school districts! :tongue_smilie:

 

He really wants (and needs) a school with a decent Automotive program, but our base school has that program (and the other Automotive program is at a WORSE school than the one we are zoned for!)

[Renee in NC]

Where do the Duke profs and the like send their kids to school? Are they all in private schools?

 

Are the Raleigh schools any better? I assume Chapel Hill is an expensive place to live.

 

I've always assumed college towns have decent public schools. At least that was true a generation ago when my husband was growing up and his dad was a professor.

 

I loved Durham when I lived there but it was way pre-kids.

 

Private schools or they live elsewhere. One mom in Chapel Hill (whose dh works at Duke) said they were told when he took the job to live in Chapel Hill and pay the crazy high taxes or live in Durham and pay crazy high tuition. The schools in the southwest part of the county are better, as are Wake schools. The new Brier Creek area is popular because it is still Durham, but in Wake County. Durham isn't all bad and it is a pretty neat place to live - there is a lot going on all the time!

 

Moving to the southwest part of the county or to Wake County would be the same as moving to another city, though, for the dc that is the most vocal about not wanting to move. He wants to stay right.here. :tongue_smilie: I agree that it would be easier! I just need to figure out a way to make that happen.

 

If he were a academically-inclined student, it would be less of an issue (there are going to be less problems in the honors classes.) I wonder if we could go visit the Automotive program and tour the school? I might try to go to a couple of PTA meetings at area schools, too.

 

The lottery for magnet, high school programs, and year-round schools starts Jan. 21st. The charter school lotteries start in January, too. Thankfully, we'll know by March what our options are here.

[Caroline]

What I look for in a school district--

 

Generally--

Low free/reduced lunch numbers

High level summer reading lists for English, History, and foreign language classes

College acceptances at schools on par with where I want my kids to go to college

A well-funded foundation in the feeder elementary schools

Multiple gifted-only teachers in the elementary schools

Many certified gifted classroom teachers in the elementary schools

 

Student centered--

My oldest wants to work in nanorobotics, so I looked for a middle school with a Lego robotics club and a high school with AP Physics, AP Chem, AP Calculus BC and multivariable calc, and two years of AP English so he could choose which year to take it

 

My ten year old wants to be an architect, so I looked for a high school with an engineering drawing class that was taught by a former engineer, not a career CTAE teacher, and then the AP Physics, etc. above

 

We live in a school district with magnet schools for science and technology, medical sciences, performing arts, and one other that I cannot remember, so I really have my bases covered that way.

 

Renee, since your son wants to do automotive, I would look for a good vo-tech school, maybe even a vo-tech magnet if that exists. (It did where I grew up, but not where we live now. However, our new superintendent is trying to change that.) Is there a high school with a connection to one of the technical colleges? For example, the high school where I teach has a connection to Chattahoochee Tech, and our auto-tech students work with their auto-tech students and professors.

 

As for gang activity--really, it is everywhere--in the rich, white suburban high schools and the urban schools. It really is everywhere. Now, violence can be minimized in a school. I work in a school that the police are afraid of. Most kids are perfectly safe at school. Like you said, it is targeted violence, not random. I have never felt unsafe at school, although there are neighborhoods around the school that I will not go into.

 

I don't have special needs kids, so I have never looked into those services. However, if I did, I would want to meet with the head of the special (or exceptional) ed department. I think that would be more important than the principal.

 

My kids go to really good schools for who my kids are. The schools wouldn't necessarily be good for your kids, who have different needs and aspirations. In fact, I wouldn't send a kid with special needs to my kids' schools. There are better ones in the county for that.

[NCMom]

In our case, acceleration, AP course, etc. are not applicable except in the case of one of my 2nd graders.

 

I have taken a look at high school course catalogs, but I am seeking places with a strong vocational track with apprenticeship/internship p

 

I don't really want to stay here for these reasons, but don't want to eliminate the possibility all together because my dc really don't want to move again (we've moved 3 times since 2008!) They are starting to have friends here, get settled, etc.

 

If you stay here then probably you also want to look for a good cc since the new dual enrollment has a vocational track. I have not seen too many actual vo -tech type high schools in NC.

 

Georgia

[Renee in NC]

Caroline, there is a vocational charter in the next town over that is a possibility. Otherwise, the vocational tracks are clustered at certain schools. The automotive is an example - it is offered at our zoned school and one other school (which is even worse.) There is an arts magnet, a medical magnet, pre-engineering program, etc.

 

I think I will contact the automotive teacher after the break to see if I can get some more info.

 

I am pretty sure I can find options in the local schools for my other dc - it's high school that makes me nervous (especially for this particular child.)

[Renee in NC]

If you stay here then probably you also want to look for a good cc since the new dual enrollment has a vocational track. I have not seen too many actual vo -tech type high schools in NC.

 

Georgia

 

Thanks! I didn't realize that. I looked at the cc website and it says that more info will be forthcoming. That could make a big difference in the options here.

[Caroline]

Renee, I just wanted to say good luck. I hope you find wonderful schools for your kids and a great job and a safe place to live and some peace. You have been through some tough times, and I truly hope things are turning around for you and your family.

[Renee in NC]

Renee, I just wanted to say good luck. I hope you find wonderful schools for your kids and a great job and a safe place to live and some peace. You have been through some tough times, and I truly hope things are turning around for you and your family.

 

Thanks. Things are WAY better than they have been in the past. These are just small bumps to navigate. :D Life is good.

 

Thanks everyone for all the food for thought. I'll be talking to more parents and visiting PTA meetings over the next couple of months. I'm know that we can find an option that works for the whole family, whether it is here or somewhere else.

 

Now, back to studying. First exam section is Friday.....

[jenbrdsly]

I have some thoughts about choosing a good school and district here on my blog. Good luck!

[bettyandbob]

Years ago I read an article on "picking" a school district. The main thing it said was to focus on high school. Basically, most places don't mess up elementary (at least not to the level high school can be messed up) and you should just assume all middle schools are bad. With that, you need to consider your dc specifically. You specifically said you are not looking at AP/IB. If I remember correctly one or two of your kids has some LDs.

 

With that:

 

1. Look at special ed closely. I wonder if Wrightslaw has anything on their website to help you to analyze schools.

 

2. Look at programs the school implements for students who fail state mandated testing.

 

3. Are there exceptions to state mandated testing for meeting grad requirements. I work for an online high school provider. We get quite a few students who try to earn a diploma through us after having "finished" school, but not earned a diploma because they did not pass a state math or writing test. Our program is accredited, so the student does get a real diploma, but I think this must be a painful process for a student. A few months back I was reviewing transcript that include precalc, but the student never passed the math test for his state so despite all his credits no diploma.

 

4. Job training programs. If some of your dc are not going to college, you want to consider the quality and variety of job training programs in the district. My county offers Autobody, automechanic, CNA, cosmetology, culinary, construction trades, office skills, programs that start the training for LPN and Dental Hygenist and more. It is good to have a few programs from which your child can choose, but also you want to know whether or not local employers want to higher graduates.

 

5. extracurriculars and cost of extracurriculars. For some kids extracurriculars keep them in school. Extracurriculars can also keep a student occupied and away from innapropriate activities. I have a couple of friends whose sons got involved in technical theater. They operate all the equipment for shows at their schools. And because they've learned to use all the equipment they get hired to operate equipment for local performing groups, teacher training programs, school board meetings, etc. The football coach at my local high school has mandatory homework periods and keeps tabs on his players throughout the year. Sadly, many districts are charging fees for these programs. Check on the reputation of the extracurricular programs and the fees and whether your family will qualify for a discount on fees in many places if you get reduced priced lunch fees for a lot things are waved.

[Renee in NC]

I have some thoughts about choosing a good school and district here on my blog. Good luck!

 

There are only two schools in the ENTIRE DISTRICT that have a Free/Reduced Lunch percentage below 25% - one is the year-round elementary we can lottery into and the other is the high school at the community college. Overall, the district has 60% FRL. The elementary school we are zoned for has 77%, the middle school and high school are at 51%.

 

Having said that, we qualify for free lunch.:tongue_smilie: I would say that we are an anomaly as we won't qualify anymore by the time they go to school (qualifying is based entirely on my being a SAHM and our family size.) I do agree, though, that a high percentage overall is very telling. Thankfully we are renting, so no big deal there.

 

The test scores of the district are horrendous overall. Our zoned elementary school is one of the worst. It used to be good, but when the district changed the attendance zone a few years ago, the school went downhill and parents tried to get their kids in anywhere else they could.

[WIS0320]

I would also ask about average class size for your littler children. Our local school has great published ratios but they are counting every adult with a license in the school which is not truly representative of the class size with one teacher at the helm. Our local school every year maxes out the legal class size for our state and will then do creative things to not hire more full time teachers like create one K/1st split class so they don't have to hire two teachers and then the class sizes in all classes remains high (30 kids).

 

I would also look for a school that is a reasonable size in general. An elementary school becomes chaotic after it hits 500-600 kids total. Our local school has 1200 kids and is just enormous. Private schools are not always better about this either as they are losing enrollments due to the economy and are dropping to one class per grade level, so those class sizes are swelling.

 

Class size really matters for little folks especially if there is a teacher in the class room who cannot manage the children well. I found that the higher the class size the more time is spent on being organized and keeping order than genuine instruction time.

[jenbrdsly]

There are only two schools in the ENTIRE DISTRICT that have a Free/Reduced Lunch percentage below 25% - one is the year-round elementary we can lottery into and the other is the high school at the community college. Overall, the district has 60% FRL. The elementary school we are zoned for has 77%, the middle school and high school are at 51%.

 

QUOTE]

 

 

That's interesting about the year-round school. What I've noticed is that the lottery schools usually have lower Free/Reduced Lunch percentages.

In our district it is the difference between 9% and about 50%.

And I hear you on being a SAHM. It certainly changes a family's finances. :tongue_smilie: I'm driving an eleven year old Toyota with a window that won't roll down, but my good friend (who went back to work last year) just bought a brand new Volvo.