This was in my inbox yesterday.. Schooling Options for Kids with Asperger's..

[Misty]

I get these Asperger's newsletters from Dave Angel. This week's topic is Schooling Options and he included an excerpt from a recent interview with Dr. Richard Horowitz. I can't believe the "experts" are still preaching this crap about not being prepared for "the real world" if you homeschool your child (or in this case, your Aspie).. :banghead: Are they really still THAT clueless about what we do? And THAT clueless about how extremely toxic the public school setting is for these kids? And what it does to their self esteem, which further complicates their social issues in the long run? Man, I'm glad I don't listen to the "experts"!!

 

****************

 

Hi there,

 

Welcome to today’s Aspergers Education Tip, and if you are in the USA then a Happy Thanks Giving to you…

 

This tip covers advice on picking the right school for a child with Aspergers.

 

It’s an extract from a recent interview that I carried out with Dr. Richard Horowitz who holds a Doctorate in Education from Rutgers University and for over 40 years has worked with families and children in a variety of educational, home and institutional settings.

 

He is also the author of Peaceful Parenting: Parent Empowerment & Child Empowerment and Family Centered Parenting – Your Guide For Growing Great Families.

 

Here’s what he had to say on schooling:

 

Picking a school

 

DA: As a parent, if you're faced with that situation [of school exclusion], is it best to fight the school exclusion for your child or is it better to kind of accept and look for a maybe a more appropriate placement?

 

RH: I think the parent tends to not be philosophical or ideological about it because they only have one child, and they don't want their child to be a guinea pig. So they really have to have a good assessment of what the school, the mainstream facility is offering. Are they truly going to protect their child? Are the teachers they're going to be with are they trained and understand a child with Asperger's and will they be confident? Or if they have the feeling that the setting is just not appropriate and their child will not thrive in it, then accept an exclusive setting. But not do it on a philosophical level, do it on a very pragmatic, what they think would work and the local conditions are.

 

DA: Okay, okay so basically no generalizations. It's going to be a case by case, individual thing for the parent.

 

RH: Right. And how well their regular setting is equipped and will deal with it rather than just pushing the issue. "Well, you have to educate my child with everyone else because that's law and the way it should be." Well that might be true but you only have one child with one school experience and if thats school is not up to it, then you don't want to put your child through it for the sake of making your point…

 

Schooling options

 

DA: Okay. And could you give me some pointers for parents who are confused as to what may be the best type of education for their child? Between mainstream schools, special needs schools, or some even think around home schooling.

 

RH: Again... Well, I'm not a fan of home schooling, simply because of the skill set. We're not as worried about the academic process. Most of the kids with Asperger's have normal or above normal intelligence. So we know that academically they could always catch up. But we know in our world, and it's become even more crucial, that having social intelligence or an emotional... What we call an EQ, a social intelligence, is equally important to success. So if you keep the child home and just do academics at home, they'll do fine academically, but they'll be prepared for absolutely nothing in the real world. And if our goal is to have our children be self-sufficient and be able to navigate the real world, we have to put them in environments where they could begin to develop and learn those social skills that are getting in the way. So I'm very much opposed to home schooling, that even though at times I understand, parents are so frustrated in trying to protect their kids, that that might be the instinct. But in the long run they're going to hurt them.

 

DA: Okay. And what about the sort of mainstream school, special needs school debate?

 

RH: Once you train a person, it's not so much training, it's compassionate educators who look... They want to make sure that the people who are going to be around their child are the ones who understand their needs and can respond appropriately….

[pdalley]

I get these Asperger's newsletters from Dave Angel. This week's topic is Schooling Options and he included an excerpt from a recent interview with Dr. Richard Horowitz. I can't believe the "experts" are still preaching this crap about not being prepared for "the real world" if you homeschool your child (or in this case, your Aspie).. :banghead: Are they really still THAT clueless about what we do? And THAT clueless about how extremely toxic the public school setting is for these kids? And what it does to their self esteem, which further complicates their social issues in the long run? Man, I'm glad I don't listen to the "experts"!!

 

****************

 

Hi there,

 

Welcome to today’s Aspergers Education Tip, and if you are in the USA then a Happy Thanks Giving to you…

 

This tip covers advice on picking the right school for a child with Aspergers.

 

It’s an extract from a recent interview that I carried out with Dr. Richard Horowitz who holds a Doctorate in Education from Rutgers University and for over 40 years has worked with families and children in a variety of educational, home and institutional settings.

 

He is also the author of Peaceful Parenting: Parent Empowerment & Child Empowerment and Family Centered Parenting – Your Guide For Growing Great Families.

 

Here’s what he had to say on schooling:

 

Picking a school

 

DA: As a parent, if you're faced with that situation [of school exclusion], is it best to fight the school exclusion for your child or is it better to kind of accept and look for a maybe a more appropriate placement?

 

RH: I think the parent tends to not be philosophical or ideological about it because they only have one child, and they don't want their child to be a guinea pig. So they really have to have a good assessment of what the school, the mainstream facility is offering. Are they truly going to protect their child? Are the teachers they're going to be with are they trained and understand a child with Asperger's and will they be confident? Or if they have the feeling that the setting is just not appropriate and their child will not thrive in it, then accept an exclusive setting. But not do it on a philosophical level, do it on a very pragmatic, what they think would work and the local conditions are.

 

DA: Okay, okay so basically no generalizations. It's going to be a case by case, individual thing for the parent.

 

RH: Right. And how well their regular setting is equipped and will deal with it rather than just pushing the issue. "Well, you have to educate my child with everyone else because that's law and the way it should be." Well that might be true but you only have one child with one school experience and if thats school is not up to it, then you don't want to put your child through it for the sake of making your point…

 

Schooling options

 

DA: Okay. And could you give me some pointers for parents who are confused as to what may be the best type of education for their child? Between mainstream schools, special needs schools, or some even think around home schooling.

 

RH: Again... Well, I'm not a fan of home schooling, simply because of the skill set. We're not as worried about the academic process. Most of the kids with Asperger's have normal or above normal intelligence. So we know that academically they could always catch up. But we know in our world, and it's become even more crucial, that having social intelligence or an emotional... What we call an EQ, a social intelligence, is equally important to success. So if you keep the child home and just do academics at home, they'll do fine academically, but they'll be prepared for absolutely nothing in the real world. And if our goal is to have our children be self-sufficient and be able to navigate the real world, we have to put them in environments where they could begin to develop and learn those social skills that are getting in the way. So I'm very much opposed to home schooling, that even though at times I understand, parents are so frustrated in trying to protect their kids, that that might be the instinct. But in the long run they're going to hurt them.

 

DA: Okay. And what about the sort of mainstream school, special needs school debate?

 

RH: Once you train a person, it's not so much training, it's compassionate educators who look... They want to make sure that the people who are going to be around their child are the ones who understand their needs and can respond appropriately….

 

 

Spoken like someone who has no idea how his 'ideas' work in the real world. It might look good on paper but it stinks in reality.

 

He should come find some compassionate educators in our local public school system. I'd give him a cardboard cookie. :glare:

[VinNY]

Regarding his EQ comment, I was recently at a talk given by a man whose group has worked and studied with autistic and spectrum children for thirty years. He himself has a dtr with autism. He said that they have been very successful mainstreaming these children (meaning getting them into schools instead of institutions) and fulfilling their academic needs. But their parents and his group still saw that these children as adults were still socially isolated and did not know how to relate to their peers. They worked at labs, universities etc. but had no social life. Why? first these children look to adults and parents for all their needs growing up, it is who they automatically relate to. Second, he showed a pie graph about the actual amount of socialization time these kids had in school. It was like 20 minutes and those 20 minutes were spent on the bus, snack time and recess with monitors who are the least trained in aiding an autistic child and his peers in proper socialization skills. Third, the majority of their time was spent really at home, evenings and weekends. 4th, these kids would have social skills training with other kids like them..that doesn't work!

 

So his group is now focusing on this EQ component. They have been invited into schools and homes to help with this. First , from an early age they are having the child rely more on peers (that have volunteered) to help them with their everyday training, learning etc ..The goal is that as they age they will have that comfort with their peers, socially and academically. Second, training for the monitors at recess time etc. and third, social skills training with children who do not have autism, aspergers. There is more but that is the gist.

 

So from what I learned, it is the rare school that has these EQ components in place. We are working on this for our school district...:glare:

 

Meanwhile, my friends that homeschool with their Aspergers and Autistic children are trying to take this info and apply to their homeschool setting. The key is peers that voluntarily want to sit in on social skill training sessions, peer/group teaching. It is hard, but the goal is to lessen the dependency on adults & parents.

 

He said to the parents in the audience (I have an LD child, my girlfriend has an autistic son) you need to have a long term vision for your child. Do you want them to be independent, living on their own, have a job a family?? If so you need to start working now on those goals just as much as you are working on the today goals (like potty training a 4-5 yr autistic child). His dtr is now married with children.

 

I am at a point in life where I try not to throw the baby out with the bath water. So sometimes the message isn't wrapped as we like, but if your goal is for independence and enough social skills to "fake" or "make" it in this world...think about the EQ component.

 

On the other hand, I was wondering is there an empirical study whether or not people with autism and aspergers actually care whether or not they have a social life or is just their family/parents/others that feel sorry for them and are transferring their ideals onto them?

[Barbara H]

 

He said to the parents in the audience (I have an LD child, my girlfriend has an autistic son) you need to have a long term vision for your child. Do you want them to be independent, living on their own, have a job a family?? If so you need to start working now on those goals just as much as you are working on the today goals (like potty training a 4-5 yr autistic child).

 

 

This is a good point. This can be a complicated process because you really need a good assessment of your child and those future goals may require quite a bit of revision from what you once imagined for your child. That can be an emotionally difficult process, but it is an important one to guide homeschooling and parenting.

 

On the original posting, it is frustrating that so many people see homeschooling as just keeping kids at home and away from the real world. Does anyone have any thoughts about why this false belief runs so deep? What we've often got from acquaintances is "Oh, you guys are good homeschoolers because you aren't just at home and you are involved in activities, but I still think homeschooling is bad for most kids because they aren't in the real world..." So, when confronted with something that would expunge a stereotype they hold rather than revising the stereotype it seems to just reinforce it.

[pdalley]

Regarding his EQ comment, I was recently at a talk given by a man whose group has worked and studied with autistic and spectrum children for thirty years. He himself has a dtr with autism. He said that they have been very successful mainstreaming these children (meaning getting them into schools instead of institutions) and fulfilling their academic needs. But their parents and his group still saw that these children as adults were still socially isolated and did not know how to relate to their peers. They worked at labs, universities etc. but had no social life. Why? first these children look to adults and parents for all their needs growing up, it is who they automatically relate to. Second, he showed a pie graph about the actual amount of socialization time these kids had in school. It was like 20 minutes and those 20 minutes were spent on the bus, snack time and recess with monitors who are the least trained in aiding an autistic child and his peers in proper socialization skills. Third, the majority of their time was spent really at home, evenings and weekends. 4th, these kids would have social skills training with other kids like them..that doesn't work!

 

So his group is now focusing on this EQ component. They have been invited into schools and homes to help with this. First , from an early age they are having the child rely more on peers (that have volunteered) to help them with their everyday training, learning etc ..The goal is that as they age they will have that comfort with their peers, socially and academically. Second, training for the monitors at recess time etc. and third, social skills training with children who do not have autism, aspergers. There is more but that is the gist.

 

So from what I learned, it is the rare school that has these EQ components in place. We are working on this for our school district...:glare:

 

Meanwhile, my friends that homeschool with their Aspergers and Autistic children are trying to take this info and apply to their homeschool setting. The key is peers that voluntarily want to sit in on social skill training sessions, peer/group teaching. It is hard, but the goal is to lessen the dependency on adults & parents.

 

He said to the parents in the audience (I have an LD child, my girlfriend has an autistic son) you need to have a long term vision for your child. Do you want them to be independent, living on their own, have a job a family?? If so you need to start working now on those goals just as much as you are working on the today goals (like potty training a 4-5 yr autistic child). His dtr is now married with children.

 

I am at a point in life where I try not to throw the baby out with the bath water. So sometimes the message isn't wrapped as we like, but if your goal is for independence and enough social skills to "fake" or "make" it in this world...think about the EQ component.

 

On the other hand, I was wondering is there an empirical study whether or not people with autism and aspergers actually care whether or not they have a social life or is just their family/parents/others that feel sorry for them and are transferring their ideals onto them?

 

I have a vision for all three of mine and because we are homeschooling we can direct them towards it. I was not about to risk a repeat of my brother's school experiences - he tried to hang himself in the school bathroom in middle school - and things were headed that way with ours.

 

My youngest seriously could not care less if he socializes. His therapist calls him an enigma. As long as he has his interest then he doesn't need anyone else. He is complete unto himself. I also wonder how many people on the spectrum are this way and if NT's aren't projecting onto them.

 

I know there are kids on the spectrum who do want to fit in and have friends. Each of my kids has at least one close friend and groups they socialize within - youth group, First Tee, etc. Even the youngest one - he simply doesn't care if he has them or not. They have manners, they are doing better with boundaries as they get older.

 

I think people use the stupid socialization argument because its simply not what is done. Most people send their kids out to school. When you don't do what everyone else is doing it makes some people uncomfortable.

[VinNY]

This is a good point. This can be a complicated process because you really need a good assessment of your child and those future goals may require quite a bit of revision from what you once imagined for your child. That can be an emotionally difficult process, but it is an important one to guide homeschooling and parenting.

 

On the original posting, it is frustrating that so many people see homeschooling as just keeping kids at home and away from the real world. Does anyone have any thoughts about why this false belief runs so deep? What we've often got from acquaintances is "Oh, you guys are good homeschoolers because you aren't just at home and you are involved in activities, but I still think homeschooling is bad for most kids because they aren't in the real world..." So, when confronted with something that would expunge a stereotype they hold rather than revising the stereotype it seems to just reinforce it.

 

Some of my children have gone onto a local private school. Recently at a parent/teacher conference I needed to step into the office. The guidance counselor for my most recent enrollee (7th grader) complimented me on his transition into the school and his social ease. She said she doesn't always see that. I said there is alot of different types of homeschoolers, my goal wasn't to isolate them, I wanted them to learn and love learning at their pace and not to a test.

 

Over 15 years of homeschooling, I have met many types. For some that is the family's goal, they do not want them to be exposed to today's culture etc. I have met Moms who have made homeschooling their idol and have lost the big picture. I have met families that have become so judgemental about schools and the children in them, so that their kids are leery about even having a conversation with other children not homeschooled. And yes, we know the kids that were put backinto school because Mom had the "breakdown" and unfortunatley the teachers and schools had to pick up the pieces. It is what it is..they don't get to see the rest of the children and families thriving with homeschooling. So for the most part, I have seen homeschoolers wrongly stereotyped (except our kids love to read!) In addition, some of the loveliest people I know homeschooling were themselves introverts by nature (total opposite of me), admittedly may have been on the spectrum and did not find any joy in mainstream education. So they chose homeschooling for their children. Some of their homeschool kids could be identified as "quirky" but to what extent should we go to homogenize everyone.I am still on the fence with that. In fact a homeschooling family with an asperger's child enrolled their other dtr in this school. She is somewhat on the spectrum,too..but the school shouldn't judge her behavior because of homeschooling. I think she is great the way she is and would have been less confident if she hadn't been homeschooled. I see more negatives than positives with peer pressure.

 

So funny thing is , as I am in the office discussing homeschooler stereotyping, there is a tall, personable young 8th grade boy at the counter chatting it up with the office ladies. He is known as the social butterfly on campus..well liked by all. He knows me by name, because he was in our homeschool group for years. So I mentioned to the women, so what do you think of Joe, he was homeschooled. They turned and looked at him and asked him if that was true. And he said yes, till 6th grade. I said to Joe did you mind me blowing your cover, and he said no he was proud of it.

[VinNY]

I think people use the stupid socialization argument because its simply not what is done. Most people send their kids out to school. When you don't do what everyone else is doing it makes some people uncomfortable.

 

Yep! :iagree:

[LittleIzumi]

Hmmm. Shouldn't "Okay, okay so basically no generalizations. It's going to be a case by case, individual thing for the parent" apply to homeschooling, too?

[pdalley]

Hmmm. Shouldn't "Okay, okay so basically no generalizations. It's going to be a case by case, individual thing for the parent" apply to homeschooling, too?

 

 

:iagree:

 

Very well said. I've always felt that way - that every kid is like a snowflake and the parent is usually the one with the clearest magnifying glass.

 

Some kids on the spectrum do quite well in public or private school. Others thrive homeschooled. Same thing with 'typical' kids. It's about the best fit for the family/child IMO.

[Walking-Iris]

Personally I believe it also comes down to what kind of schools are in your area. I always wanted to homeschool my children before I even had any, so this is a non-issue for me. But when my ds was dx-ed then I "really" wanted to homeschool. Mainly because the schools available in my area are dreadful for kids with sn.

 

My dh works in the school system and he sees daily how sn kids are not challenged, he's witnessed verbal abuse from aides and other students, and the schools are overcrowded. Basically imo my ds is able to excel academically because he is getting the individual attention and his work is not purposely dumbed down because of an expectation/stereotype of asd kids.

 

If we lived where there were other options that were doing better than our schools---it may be different. But no way am I going to put him through the stress of ps for a "social life"---I firmly believe that asd kiddos do better with quality friendships vs quantity friendships. The kid's in co-op, karate and sports and siblings/cousins and family friends supply my ds with more than enough social outlets. As far as EQ goes (I love Goleman's book) I personally feel that knowing that one can be friend's with all ages in the real world, and knowing how to act with a baby sister or elderly disabled neighbor, or having a friend that is 42 years old etc requires a lot more EQ than being pinned up with crowds of children your own age being herded like cattle through an institution.

[Critterfixer]

Personally I believe it also comes down to what kind of schools are in your area. I always wanted to homeschool my children before I even had any, so this is a non-issue for me. But when my ds was dx-ed then I "really" wanted to homeschool. Mainly because the schools available in my area are dreadful for kids with sn.

 

This is us. I also had some personal experience having been in private schools, then home-school, then ps for a year, and then on to college about how tough things can be for the quirky, AS traits student. In many ways it was far worse in the private school. The schools I went to were small, and if you did not fit in, you stuck out like the proverbial sore thumb, and got whacked a lot. In PS at least I could become invisible. So when my youngest was diagnosed with autism, I knew that he could look forward to bullying or necessary invisibility. Or I could home-school him. Hmm...really easy decision there.

 

I might also add that when I met home-schooled children for the first time I had at least a glimmer of hope that here were people who I might be able to trust. That was a big step for me. Previously, I might find one person that I could be friends with, but never did I feel that I could be myself in a group. I credit that today with being the best social training I ever had. Being able to practice social skills in a safe, controlled way seems to me to be of greatest importance if one is not dextrous in those skills.

[Finnella]

Why do so many people assume that socialization in ps is automatically good? My DS was bullied horribly, especially once he hit middle school.

 

My DS gets much more education in EQ at home and at his social skills group.

[Bloggermom]

I myself am somewhere on the autism spectrum. I went to public school as a child and felt isolated even in a classroom of 30 students. I would have done SO MUCH BETTER had I been homeschooled. I am currently pulling my 1st grader out of school and putting him into homeschool because he is so different from the other kids and they bully him and make fun of him for it.

[lifesajourney]

As a former special educator of children with ASD, and now a parent of a child (most likely) on the spectrum (aspergers), I don't think I could ever send my son, or any of my kiddos, to public school! Ever! And I was a 'compassionate educator' in one of the top rated districts in the country :rolleyes:

 

Misty, I love your philosophy and once again I applaud you for all that you do for your family. You are absolutely doing what is best, although it certainly isn't easiest ;)

[Misty]

Misty, I love your philosophy and once again I applaud you for all that you do for your family. You are absolutely doing what is best, although it certainly isn't easiest ;)

 

Aww... thanks.. I needed to hear that today as we just received another diagnosis today.. Asperger's in my oldest daughter.. That makes three daughters with Asperger's.. :001_huh: Not really a shock though as we have known for some time.. We were just making it official like. :D

[Mom22ns]

Why do so many people assume that socialization in ps is automatically good? My DS was bullied horribly, especially once he hit middle school.

 

 

 

This was our experience too.

 

About 6 months after I started homeschooling, I had a woman at my church come up and ask what we had done to improve ds's social skills so much. She was watching him interact with peers from the platform each Sunday (she is in choir). I told her we had started homeschooling. She asked if I regretted not doing it sooner since his social skills had improved so dramatically from it! This was a 60+ yo woman who was never a homeschooler and had no bias for it.

 

ASD kids do NOT learn social skills from peers. That is the reason they have social skill problems to start with. The way they learn them is direct instruction. When I started spending so much more time with ds, I could address concerns AS they happened. When we were out and he had social interactions, I could watch and give suggestions later. One incident that stands out was at our homeschool orchestra group. Ds and I were walking to his theory class. A boy ran by and bumped ds. He apologized over his shoulder and kept running. Ds was angry. The kids was a jerk who hit him. I was able to talk to him about being in a hurry in the hallway, an accidental bump and an apology and how he should respond to that. He got over it and I've never seen him get angry over something like that again. Those things happened at ps all the time. They weren't always accidental and he felt constantly threatened. No one helped him understand how to know the difference between an attack and an accident or how to respond to each.

 

Direct social skill instruction is the key. Being social acceptable to adults (as an adult) is the goal. The best way I know to achieve that with lots of adult interaction that includes instruction and correction.

 

Ds had major social skill issues when we pulled him from ps. Four years later, no one would guess he was ASD from watching him with other teens and adults. No one, not even other parents of ASD kids.

[Misty]

Ds had major social skill issues when we pulled him from ps. Four years later, no one would guess he was ASD from watching him with other teens and adults. No one, not even other parents of ASD kids.

 

This is an awesome testimony!! I must say that it has been a similar experience for us with my oldest daughter.. I shudder to think how her social skills would be if we had her in ps all these years.. She does very well, socially, and I think that is mostly due to homeschooling.

 

My middle two girls have more issues, socially.. But I think it could be much, much worse.

[Walking-Iris]

I feel the same way and oddly enough just had a conversation today with our speech therapist about my ds's pragmatic skills and how they've improved. He's being officially discharged from speech---:D---I have personally witnessed him on numerous occasions have better manners than nt kids his own age. He may not get the social mores of a game etc at times, but in the politeness and kindness dept he shines. He was looking over a kid's shoulder in a co-op art class and just offered a "hey that looks really good." The other kid just stared at him without a clue what to say---no thanks or anything---just a shocked look.

 

I have so so so many other examples of this. Now if only he could apply it to his own little brother grr