Anybody else have a creative thinker?

[sagira]

I think I may have finally realized why I was having so much difficulty trying to contain ds8 In a structured (home)school setting. With research, I found out that he's a creative thinker, no doubt about it. Anybody else care to share experiences with their creative thinker, ways you use to bring out the best in them? I want to do right by him and not squash that roaming imagination.

 

http://www.bertiekingore.com/high-gt-create.htm

[PeterPan]

Not to be dumb, but are you thinking in a gifted way or along with LD/SNs? Just asking, because that article is only contrasted them to bright and gifted kids. When I read it, I kept thinking that kid she described was probably ADHD/ADD and VSL/dyslexic. ;)

 

I'm just not familiar with your situation. If they're coming up with all these ideas because their mind is wandering, then it's good to know that. Have you had any evaluations?

 

Really I'm not trying to rain on your parade. Just asking since you're on the SN board. I would say my dd is artistic (not quite the same thing as inventive) and that to the extent she is like that creative thinker description it's because of attention issues. It means I know why it's happening and can decide when to harness it and when to teach her skills to harness herself.

[sagira]

Not to be dumb, but are you thinking in a gifted way or along with LD/SNs? Just asking, because that article is only contrasted them to bright and gifted kids. When I read it, I kept thinking that kid she described was probably ADHD/ADD and VSL/dyslexic. ;)

 

I'm just not familiar with your situation. If they're coming up with all these ideas because their mind is wandering, then it's good to know that. Have you had any evaluations?

 

Really I'm not trying to rain on your parade. Just asking since you're on the SN board. I would say my dd is artistic (not quite the same thing as inventive) and that to the extent she is like that creative thinker description it's because of attention issues. It means I know why it's happening and can decide when to harness it and when to teach her skills to harness herself.

 

Well, this is all new to me, honestly. I *think* my thread belongs here, but I don't know for sure if it does. You're not raining on my parade :) All I know is ds fits this description, of a creative thinker, exactly. No exceptions. All of the descriptions apply to him. Maybe he is gifted, but more than knowing exactly how he's labeled, I want to teach to his strengths, build up weaknesses and understand him even better. I don't want to try to fit a round peg into a square hole (which I'm afraid I may have been doing previously). I truly think he's a great thinker, and I appreciate his wild imagination. Maybe he will enjoy learning more this way, too.

 

He reads above grade average, his ideas are way beyond, and he has awesome inferences sometimes. Other times he's too preoccupied in his head with something else to be able to pay attention. I find myself saying yes, yes! to all of those.

 

Am I in the wrong forum? Someone told me once gifted is a special needs case. I'm not accelerating him either, I just think he thinks differently. Hence, I didn't join the Accelerated thread.

[rafiki]

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[PeterPan]

Well I can just tell you that when I look at that description on that website, I see gifted + attention issues + other stuff. And when you have questions about how to teach your dc, know they have some weaknesses, think they have attention issues, what you want is a neuropsych eval. I DIDN'T do the eval for years, figuring I could just research and figure out enough to suit us. Now it has bitten us in the butt enough that I'm going back and doing it. So my two cents is get the evals. When you start knowing in your gut that there are learning differences (attention, untypical weaknesses considering strengths in other areas, having to work around things, etc.), get the evals.

 

There are also lots of good books on this. Freed's "Right-Brained Children in a Left-Brained World", the Eides "The Mislabeled Child," etc.

 

I guess that all sounds crazy to you. I'm just saying that the $1500 I'm spending now to get the eval could have been spent years ago and saved me a lot of grief, worrying, scratching my head, and consternation. I had *thought* about it over the years when she was younger and could just kick myself that I didn't.

[PeterPan]

As far as actual teaching and learning new methods, I do what Michele is saying, reading through all the posts by a single person. Just find somebody who seems similar or intriguing and read one evening. I've read through McConnell's boys that way, LoriD, and quite a few others. You learn a ton, and you start to see their ideas in a context.

[Embassy]

Well, this is all new to me, honestly. I *think* my thread belongs here, but I don't know for sure if it does. You're not raining on my parade :) All I know is ds fits this description, of a creative thinker, exactly. No exceptions. All of the descriptions apply to him. Maybe he is gifted, but more than knowing exactly how he's labeled, I want to teach to his strengths, build up weaknesses and understand him even better. I don't want to try to fit a round peg into a square hole (which I'm afraid I may have been doing previously). I truly think he's a great thinker, and I appreciate his wild imagination. Maybe he will enjoy learning more this way, too.

 

He reads above grade average, his ideas are way beyond, and he has awesome inferences sometimes. Other times he's too preoccupied in his head with something else to be able to pay attention. I find myself saying yes, yes! to all of those.

 

Am I in the wrong forum? Someone told me once gifted is a special needs case. I'm not accelerating him either, I just think he thinks differently. Hence, I didn't join the Accelerated thread.

 

I have a son who is similar. He often goes off into his imagination which is full and rich. If I leave him to do a page of something I almost always come back to find a page filled with drawings along with some completed work. Honestly sometimes I think he has five movies playing in his head at once and my greatest challenge is to capture his interest. If he is interested he follows well.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I think I may have finally realized why I was having so much difficulty trying to contain ds8 In a structured (home)school setting. With research, I found out that he's a creative thinker, no doubt about it. Anybody else care to share experiences with their creative thinker, ways you use to bring out the best in them? I want to do right by him and not squash that roaming imagination.

 

http://www.bertiekingore.com/high-gt-create.htm

 

Well, sagira, I am growing increasingly convinced that we are living parallel lives. :lol:

 

My DS8 is totally the creative learner bubble guy from those cartoons. :lol: My absolute favorite item from that list of creative learner attributes is "questions the need for mastery." Uh, check. :willy_nilly: (Please feel free to search through my posts today for my complete math meltdown on one of the SM threads. :lol:)

 

At this time these discussions about student-centered learning do not fit any of the current board divisions, thus such gems are scattered throughout the forum.

 

Many no longer post.

 

Try searching the forum for twice exceptional (2E), right brained, and visual spatial learner. From there you can search for additional posts from those member's who interest you.

 

I've been silently reading all those threads with interest. I am so sad when people feel misunderstood or disparaged and then say they're not going to post. I need them, seriously. Those who have gone before me are perhaps my best hope for not mucking this up any more than I already have.

 

Not to be dumb, but are you thinking in a gifted way or along with LD/SNs? Just asking, because that article is only contrasted them to bright and gifted kids. When I read it, I kept thinking that kid she described was probably ADHD/ADD and VSL/dyslexic. ;)

 

I've been reading a few recommendations from these boards and I'm fascinated by some relatively new thinking about the possibility that most ADD/ADHD kids are actually gifted.

 

I'm so clueless about the 2E stuff. DS8 is definitely a visual learner but not dyslexic. He's got attention issues that I think are much more likely to be related to me being boring (sad but true :001_unsure:) and him being bored than they are to any organic issue with him. I feel like he's just got this massive need for adventure and inquiry, no holds barred style learning, and I'm holding him back with my need to have my ducks in a row. I feel like I'm keeping a racehorse in the starting gate all the time, or on my best days just keeping him to a trot.

 

Well I can just tell you that when I look at that description on that website, I see gifted + attention issues + other stuff. And when you have questions about how to teach your dc, know they have some weaknesses, think they have attention issues, what you want is a neuropsych eval. I DIDN'T do the eval for years, figuring I could just research and figure out enough to suit us. Now it has bitten us in the butt enough that I'm going back and doing it. So my two cents is get the evals. When you start knowing in your gut that there are learning differences (attention, untypical weaknesses considering strengths in other areas, having to work around things, etc.), get the evals.

 

There are also lots of good books on this. Freed's "Right-Brained Children in a Left-Brained World", the Eides "The Mislabeled Child," etc.

 

The Right-Brained book is one I've just finished. It was helpful. The absolute best thing I've read so far, a real revelation for me, is Dreamers, Discoverers and Dynamos. More in this book resonated with me about DS8 than anything else. It fits DD too, for that matter. She is definitely a dreamer. Sagira, watch out for your DD because she's different but she'll be a feisty one too, I bet! I highly recommend that you express this book to yourself and start reading immediately. :D I've started applying some of the recommendations from the book and I could actually see a flicker of light reemerge within DS today. (Seriously, today, in the back yard, on the swing! It was amazing! :tongue_smilie: Very helpful book!)

 

As far as actual teaching and learning new methods, I do what Michele is saying, reading through all the posts by a single person. Just find somebody who seems similar or intriguing and read one evening. I've read through McConnell's boys that way, LoriD, and quite a few others. You learn a ton, and you start to see their ideas in a context.

 

Yes, yes, yes. In particular, I have learned a great deal from Corraleno's and Zaichiki's posts. I know there are others I'm forgetting but you'll discover them in the same threads.

Edited November 13, 2011 by Alte Veste Academy

[PeterPan]

The happy thing is that attention is something they can actually test and quantify. (They had dd stare at a black screen on a computer for what she said was 20 minutes, clicking when she saw blips only in a certain box.) So then you can tell whether it's you or them. :)

[Alte Veste Academy]

The happy thing is that attention is something they can actually test and quantify. (They had dd stare at a black screen on a computer for what she said was 20 minutes, clicking when she saw blips only in a certain box.) So then you can tell whether it's you or them. :)

 

I'm trying to figure out how to get testing. Start with the ped? I wouldn't mind a test to rule me out as boring. :tongue_smilie:

[PeterPan]

Well we're getting our testing through a neuropsych. There are actually neuropsychs that specialize in gifted kids btw. I received a listing through a 2E email list I'm on. I didn't end up finding one on the list that suited us, but it did surprise me how many there were. So if you were to google neuropsychologist gifted and your state, you might find someone interesting. Or just find a neuropsych. Or go through your ped and let them refer you. I'm sort of rogue, so I looked till I found one on my own that I felt confident in. Large universities, children's hospitals, lots of places have them.

 

Oh, just for your trivia, the neuropsych I had looked at and decided not to go to is Sylvia Rimm. Nothing wrong with her, and she happens to have authored a number of books on gifted girls. I just offer her as an example of a psych who will do the testing and look specifically for their gifts and strengths and give you help with that. http://www.sylviarimm.com/

[Alte Veste Academy]

Well we're getting our testing through a neuropsych. There are actually neuropsychs that specialize in gifted kids btw. I received a listing through a 2E email list I'm on. I didn't end up finding one on the list that suited us, but it did surprise me how many there were. So if you were to google neuropsychologist gifted and your state, you might find someone interesting. Or just find a neuropsych. Or go through your ped and let them refer you. I'm sort of rogue, so I looked till I found one on my own that I felt confident in. Large universities, children's hospitals, lots of places have them.

 

Oh, just for your trivia, the neuropsych I had looked at and decided not to go to is Sylvia Rimm. Nothing wrong with her, and she happens to have authored a number of books on gifted girls. I just offer her as an example of a psych who will do the testing and look specifically for their gifts and strengths and give you help with that. http://www.sylviarimm.com/

 

My understanding is that our insurance will pay for testing if the referral comes from a primary care provider, so I would want to go that route. My problem is that I don't know what to say to get the referral, especially as a homeschooler, with no school officials breathing down my neck and providing fodder for a referral. I feel bizarrely like I'm throwing him under the bus to walk into his ped's office and say I think he needs testing. The thing is that I'm not seeing 2E stuff, really just gifted stuff.

 

What Sagira (and that article, and the Dreamers book) was saying about creativity and imagination really applies here, but I know it's being stifled. As I reflect on this, I think he is at this uncomfortable place between little kid and big kid where his imagination can move on to bigger things and he can channel his creativity into some truly impressive output but I need to help him open those doors. For now I'm going to apply as much as I can from my reading (and my own intuition, which I've been ignoring too much) and see what changes I observe in him.

 

Sorry for taking over your thread, Sagira!

 

ETA: I just realized that me saying I feel like I'm throwing DS under the bus to suggest testing somehow implies that testing is a bad thing. That is so not what I mean! I think testing is awesome and can be so very useful. I am just feeling a bit...responsible and guilty because I think that I've just not been teaching and mothering him as would best suit him. Does that make sense?

Edited November 13, 2011 by Alte Veste Academy

[PeterPan]

Kristina, with the OT I found the OT, got told by her what coding the doctor needed to use in the referral slip to get it to work for the insurance, called the doctor, and the doctor wrote the referral. Screwy, eh? So in your case you could find the psych you want to use and work backward. Or go to the doc. But like you're saying, I think it matters how it's coded so that your insurance will cover it.

 

I also think there's nothing to be embarrassed about. If you are seeing attention issues in school, you're seeing attention issues. Sometimes the school will also provide services, even if it's just an IQ test.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Kristina, with the OT I found the OT, got told by her what coding the doctor needed to use in the referral slip to get it to work for the insurance, called the doctor, and the doctor wrote the referral. Screwy, eh? So in your case you could find the psych you want to use and work backward. Or go to the doc. But like you're saying, I think it matters how it's coded so that your insurance will cover it.

 

I also think there's nothing to be embarrassed about. If you are seeing attention issues in school, you're seeing attention issues. Sometimes the school will also provide services, even if it's just an IQ test.

 

OK, first see my ETA because I think what I said about testing came out wrong. :tongue_smilie: Embarrassed isn't it, more like I haven't necessarily changed the stuff I can work on before I start looking at him. Getting the stick out of my own eye or whatever that saying is... :D

 

I totally see your point about working backwards. Great advice. Thank you. :)

[JennW in SoCal]

I think I may have finally realized why I was having so much difficulty trying to contain ds8 In a structured (home)school setting. With research, I found out that he's a creative thinker, no doubt about it. Anybody else care to share experiences with their creative thinker, ways you use to bring out the best in them? I want to do right by him and not squash that roaming imagination.

 

http://www.bertiekingore.com/high-gt-create.htm

 

Thank you for the link! I have raised two very creative thinkers, one who is 2E, for sure -- twice exceptional with his creative thinking AND his alphabet soup of diagnoses over the years (ADHD/Aspergers and some LDs). It is a shame that discussions about homeschooling these kind of kids have, for some reason, gotten out of hand in the last year or so and several people have left the boards in frustration. But we can still talk about it, and I'm happy to answer questions, starting with, "What did you do to bring out their best?"

 

The simple answer is that I followed their unique interests as in depth as possible. We never abandoned traditional school as we worked regularly on the 3Rs, but with the exception of math, I didn't use text books or "programs". My creative thinkers would be too busy mocking the questions or the explanations to get anything out of the lessons. Worse yet, if they did grammar or punctuation or spelling lessons they never applied it to their writing. So I decided to focus on writing through copy work, narrations, and in high school, essays, and to work on grammar and such through editing. They both write very well.

 

Their interests led to rich and interesting experiences through volunteer work and internships, especially during their teen years. I did more formal coursework with them in high school, as we had to have a transcript of college prep courses by the time they graduated. But in addition to history and Spanish on their transcripts, there are courses for one ds in theatrical lighting design and stage management, and for the other in robotics and electrical engineering.

 

One is in college now, getting a degree in show production design, and the other is excelling in his community college courses and is, as I write this, finishing his college application essays. I wouldn't change anything we did, have no regrets for not following a structured homeschool curricula. I only wish I had taken a few more photographs of all we did!

 

So follow your gut. Trust your creative minded child to be learning when he is pursuing some crazy train of thought. Provide the tools to explore interests, whether it is books, videos, kits, art supplies or batteries or countess trips to the same museum over and over. Insist on keeping up with the 3Rs, but don't feel chained to one curriculum or program. Creative thinkers can learn through games, too.

 

I'll try to check back in to see if you have any questions that I can help with.

[PeterPan]

What Jenn is describing is where we are in the journey, where you try to figure out if your goal is to label and "fix" so you can turn them into what everyone else is doing, or if you goal is to understand them and then just go with it. There are a lot of things that seem awfully important or essential when you're hanging out on some of the boards that DON'T turn out to be so essential later. And I'm slowly coming to the realization that Jenn is right, that some of these things they're going to get to (writing essays, etc.), just not in the linear, smooth ways you can drag other kids through. It's more like they jump.

 

So if anyone interested what I meant with testing as a way of saying therefore confine them in a box or push them back into the curriculum mold, that's definitely not what I meant. What I'm saying is testing is one way of figuring out who your kid is. I also think there's a sense in which, as the child grows, s/he wants to know for himself who he is, what he is, why he is.

 

PS. Nice to see you here Jenn! :)

Edited November 13, 2011 by OhElizabeth

[attaboygirl]

I agree with your thoughts above, OhElizabeth and JennW. We had our dd evaluated by a neuropsych this past summer, and it was part of our transition from trying to make her fit my dream classical education to making her classical education fit the child she is and stop working against her.

 

In that light, I, too, am not abandoning the 3Rs, but am instead renovating them to suit. Slowly but surely, this year I am dialing in to the right level of challenge, interest, and delight. And I'm not freaking out (internally) when she spends three hours making doll battle armor out of duct tape and cardboard.

[Misty]

And I'm not freaking out (internally) when she spends three hours making doll battle armor out of duct tape and cardboard.

 

:lol::lol:

This is exactly the kind of thing that goes on here.. My oldest daughter especially had a constant need to create things when she was younger.. She has since channeled that creativity into writing. Now my 3rd daughter does the constant creating and making.. Tissue, yarn, tacks, tape, etc.. Whatever she can find.. She makes messes everywhere. When I try to give her a structured craft activity, she melts.. :confused: I think all her creative energy is spent focused on making things for her dinosaurs so nothing else interests her. I tried to get her to make an "All About Me" lapbook last week and she wouldn't have anything to do with it. She's all about the dinos!

[PeterPan]

Attaboygirl, I don't know who you are (haven't seen your posts before), but ATTABOY! :) That's EXACTLY it. And to flip it, the reason you want the testing is because, without it, you customize and MISS things that would be really obvious to an evaluator, assuming they're just personality or whatever. Or maybe I'm the only one extreme enough to do that. Anything that was different about my dd I just chalked up to personality or gifting or whatever, without it ever occurring to me that those differences could, while amazing in some ways (which they really were), actually be signs of weaknesses or problems I hadn't considered. So now we're going back and finding that side.

 

Case in point. My dd loves to sculpt and is really pretty good at it, if I do say so. So when she was little and wouldn't color, I figured it was because coloring was too in the box for my uber-creative child. Oh yeah, lol. No, it's just that my dd had visual processing and fine motor problems. But you don't think that when your dc is sculpting these amazing things, right? So all the junk about personalize, bow to their creativity, don't worry, different timetables, traditional assignments are too in the box, etc. etc. came back to bite us when I realized there were REASONS those things were there and that MISSING those markers was significant.

 

So my hindsite is it's $1500 between me and peace of mind.

[sagira]

Well, sagira, I am growing increasingly convinced that we are living parallel lives.

 

My DS8 is totally the creative learner bubble guy from those cartoons. My absolute favorite item from that list of creative learner attributes is "questions the need for mastery." Uh, check. :willy_nilly: (Please feel free to search through my posts today for my complete math meltdown on one of the SM threads.

 

I've been silently reading all those threads with interest. I am so sad when people feel misunderstood or disparaged and then say they're not going to post. I need them, seriously. Those who have gone before me are perhaps my best hope for not mucking this up any more than I already have.

 

I've been reading a few recommendations from these boards and I'm fascinated by some relatively new thinking about the possibility that most

ADD/ADHD kids are actually gifted.

 

I'm so clueless about the 2E stuff. DS8 is definitely a visual learner but not

dyslexic. He's got attention issues that I think are much more likely to be related to me being boring (sad but true :001_unsure:) and him being bored than they are to any organic issue with him. I feel like he's just got this

massive need for adventure and inquiry, no holds barred style learning, and I'm holding him back with my need to have my ducks in a row. I feel like I'm

keeping a racehorse in the starting gate all the time, or on my best days just keeping him to a trot.

 

The Right-Brained book is one I've just finished. It was helpful. The absolute best thing I've read so far, a real revelation for me, is Dreamers, Discoverers and Dynamos. More in this book resonated with me about DS8 than anything else. It fits DD too, for that matter. She is definitely a dreamer. Sagira, watch out for your DD because she's different but she'll be a feisty one too, I bet! I highly recommend that you express this book to yourself and start reading immediately. :D I've started applying some of the

recommendations from the book and I could actually see a flicker of light reemerge within DS today. (Seriously, today, in the back yard, on the swing! It was amazing! :tongue_smilie: Very helpful book!)

 

Yes, yes, yes. In particular, I have learned a great deal from Corraleno's and Zaichiki's posts. I know there are others I'm forgetting but you'll discover them in the same threads.

 

Seriously, Altaveste, I think you're my long lost twin :lol:

 

Thank you for the book recommendation! I will get it to read on my Kindle right away. It seems perfect for us.

 

My ds doesn't seem dyslexic either, he reads well, albeit tries to rush through words he doesn't know, but is fine with that. Reading about 2E, I really don't see how he fits that profile. He's more like that creative thinker.

 

I had no idea this topic was controversial. Should I have posted in Accelerated?

 

We're doing great with WWE. I'm pleased with how his skills are improving

rapidly. This kid likes Grammar, go figure :) I'm getting him the Lynn Truss books for Christmas.

 

Gosh, thanks for the great advice and sharing experiences, mamas! I appreciate all the help I can get. I've started doing that - work on the 3Rs, add in daily History and Science (ds loves these), and on Fridays we do Logic, Poetry, Penmanship, Art Appreciation, Music Appreciation, Theology.

[sagira]

Sigh. I wouldn't mind getting tested, but money is tight right now, and dh wouldn't go for it. He thinks ADD and ADHD are just an unnecessary labeling and that they just different ways of thinking, nothing wrong with them. He really bristles at all the testing, etc. The $1500 price tag wouldn't help either.

 

In the meantime, my choices are:

 

Read the book

Change my teaching ways

 

Thanks, everyone!

[Berta]

My son has autism and is a very creative thinker. He was a published poet by the age of 12. I followed his lead. I had to get creative in my ways of helping him and I am so not a creative thinker!

 

Art is everything to him. I bought washable markers and let him draw on my white kitchen floor. I would have him practice his spelling words by writing them on the floor. A piece of paper was never enough to contain his creativity lol. Sitting down at the table was unheard of, even for meals. He just couldn't sit. I took a milk crate and he would be able to sit long enough to verbally do some lessons. The milk crate gave him something to do with his fingers, and in turn was able to concentrate on what I was teaching/reading.

 

In third grade he started at a school for kids with autism, and he really thrived. He is now 19 and full time college student. He plans to head to Savannah College of Art and Design next year to get his degree in animation.

 

When he was younger I had him tested by a neurologist.

[sagira]

Thanks for sharing, Berta. Sounds like you did an amazing job!

 

My ds actually doesn't like to draw. He excels at building stuff (Legos), creative problem solving, coming up with stories, creating sets for home movie making, tennis, dance, Taekwondo. He lives in a dream world and latches on to one interest. When he was little, it was animals.. He pretended he was an animal every day all the time, talked about animals, etc. Afterwards it was Transformers. He wouldn't stop talking about it for 9 months. Optimus Prime was in the grocery store, with us in the car, he was Bumblebee, you get the picture. Then for over a year, it was Ben 10. Everything. Was. Ben 10. I know more about Ben 10 than I knew about any of my heroes in childhood. Now he latched onto Phineas and Ferb and that's all he's into. He talks like them, knows all the songs, dances, dissect the plots, wonders about motives, wants to build roller coasters (but not really, more like in a fun, quick, imaginary way).. Wow.

[rafiki]

.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Anything that was different about my dd I just chalked up to personality or gifting or whatever, without it ever occurring to me that those differences could, while amazing in some ways (which they really were), actually be signs of weaknesses or problems I hadn't considered. So now we're going back and finding that side.

 

Case in point. My dd loves to sculpt and is really pretty good at it, if I do say so. So when she was little and wouldn't color, I figured it was because coloring was too in the box for my uber-creative child. Oh yeah, lol. No, it's just that my dd had visual processing and fine motor problems. But you don't think that when your dc is sculpting these amazing things, right? So all the junk about personalize, bow to their creativity, don't worry, different timetables, traditional assignments are too in the box, etc. etc. came back to bite us when I realized there were REASONS those things were there and that MISSING those markers was significant.

 

Thanks for posting this. It's another way to look at it and definitely food for thought.

 

Thank you for the book recommendation! I will get it to read on my Kindle right away. It seems perfect for us.

 

Let me know what you think of it. We could have a DDD thread. :D

 

I get what you are saying about feeling like you are throwing DS under the bus.

 

The information gained from NP testing is a tool to help you better understand your child and more efficiently channel your efforts to help them be their best. There is nothing negative about it. It will tell you your child’s strengths and weaknesses both academically and cognitively, their personality, learning style, explain the pattern (dx or just personality), and get you started with “now whatâ€. You will then have specific terms that fit your child. It helps you understand your child which helps with parenting not just education, but it also helps your child understand themselves.

 

Thank you for this. Frankly, I have been worried that just introducing the idea of testing to DS8 will introduce an insecurity about what could be "wrong" with him that he does not have right now. Right now, I think he probably just has some frustration with me for not knowing what goes on in his head. Keeping in mind what you say about the info from testing, I think it would work well to say to him that because Mom struggles with teaching him, I would like for someone to give me some info about the way I can best help him...kind of take it all off him and put it on me.

[PeterPan]

Kristina, have you done any form of testing with him yet? We had done standardized testing at home a few times and then the Woodcock-Johnson III with a tester, so dd accepted it as just another form of testing, something normal. They only see it as an abnormal thing if you put it that way. But the reality is, there's going to come a point where he's going to figure out for HIMSELF that he's different. And at that point either you ahve answers or you don't. And for us, it's kinda like boy and girl anatomy--I want her to have the right words. I don't want her left wondering what she is or isn't or anything else. And I don't want her walking around with some label I THINK is right that isn't.

 

But really and truly, we just did our testing this week. It's no big deal.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Kristina, have you done any form of testing with him yet? We had done standardized testing at home a few times and then the Woodcock-Johnson III with a tester, so dd accepted it as just another form of testing, something normal. They only see it as an abnormal thing if you put it that way. But the reality is, there's going to come a point where he's going to figure out for HIMSELF that he's different. And at that point either you ahve answers or you don't. And for us, it's kinda like boy and girl anatomy--I want her to have the right words. I don't want her left wondering what she is or isn't or anything else. And I don't want her walking around with some label I THINK is right that isn't.

 

But really and truly, we just did our testing this week. It's no big deal.

 

I gave him the TAKS. He didn't care for it but (probably because it was novel) he did take it seriously, so I was happy with that. :tongue_smilie: Other than that, I've only had him do a couple of online vocab and reading measures. Oh, and almost daily spelling tests (he loves those, go figure :lol:).

[attaboygirl]

When I try to give her a structured craft activity, she melts..

 

Hooboy, that is very much the conundrum here, too. Two years ago, I thought I was all clever, getting us all set to do our first craft from the SOTW AG, only to get an entirely different lesson when it was like i had decided to start pulling her teeth out through her eyes, to judge by her reaction. Indeed, ever since she started outside classes or camps that include an art or craft element, the teacher quickly lets her do what she wants instead of following the class, as she is so persnickety about guided creativity. She's always nice about it, but we laugh here (dh and I) that she is a master of civil disobedience - she won't fight you directly, but she will definitely not do what you want if it's against her grain.

 

And OhElizabeth, I made myself a signature, since you pointed out that this lurker has just spontaneously begun to speak. To flesh it out, we're in our 3rd year of homeschooling, and we began doing so because of her obvious mismatch with the classroom experiences she had had so far.

 

And back to the thread in general - I am glad we spent the money we spent on the neuropsych. I feel validated and more confident about the stuff I had noticed, and I'm glad I had that backup double-check, as there was one thing that the neuropsych found that I hadnt put together on my own. Good stuff.

[attaboygirl]

Frankly, I have been worried that just introducing the idea of testing to DS8 will introduce an insecurity about what could be "wrong" with him that he does not have right now. Right now, I think he probably just has some frustration with me for not knowing what goes on in his head. Keeping in mind what you say about the info from testing, I think it would work well to say to him that because Mom struggles with teaching him, I would like for someone to give me some info about the way I can best help him...kind of take it all off him and put it on me.

 

Very much this. I had those same worries; indeed that's where we were in May. But our neuropsych was a rock star - she made the whole testing process positive and interesting and reassuring for dd. And her report and our sit down meeting with her has actually turned me into a better teacher for her, in just that way - when I get frustrated with her for one of the myriad things that come up, I am so much better at regrouping and spinning it as being my "fault," if you will.

[PeterPan]

Attaboygirl--I like your sig! That's a good list of really practical things to do with a hands-on learner. And you're right, that's why I'm wondering if the np will find something I wasn't expecting. But because of Thanksgiving I have to wait another 2 1/2 weeks for the results! (rapping fingers...)

 

One of the weird things I mentioned to the np was that with her can't and won't are intricately linked. It's something we've talked about on the boards, and I wanted to see if he would have an explanation for it when we're done. It's sort of awkward when you look back after 8 years of homeschooling, trying to explain what you did and why, and you can't even tell if it was because she *couldn't* or *wouldn't*. And sometimes it's just that they get it in their minds and can't break free to do it another way, lol. When you hit junior high and really need it to be your way for some things, it isn't so funny.

[PeterPan]

Very much this. I had those same worries; indeed that's where we were in May. But our neuropsych was a rock star - she made the whole testing process positive and interesting and reassuring for dd. And her report and our sit down meeting with her has actually turned me into a better teacher for her, in just that way - when I get frustrated with her for one of the myriad things that come up, I am so much better at regrouping and spinning it as being my "fault," if you will.

 

Conversely, I've been lobbed with the "it's your fault, Mom, you're a bad teacher" thing enough, I'm sick of it and am glad to finally have some explanations. ;)

 

But yes, your response is very gracious. I'm hoping for some explanations on a couple weird things that will arm me better to do what I already functionally know to do (count to three when you tell her something and don't just keep repeating it, lol).

[sagira]

Oh, and almost daily spelling tests (he loves those, go figure :lol:).

 

Now our sons' similarities are getting creepy :lol:

[sagira]

At this time these discussions about student-centered learning do not fit any of the current board divisions, thus such gems are scattered throughout the forum.

 

Many no longer post.

 

Try searching the forum for twice exceptional (2E), right brained, and visual spatial learner. From there you can search for additional posts from those member's who interest you.

 

That's a shame. Thank you for posting, and thank you for the ideas :)

[sagira]

I have a son who is similar. He often goes off into his imagination which is full and rich. If I leave him to do a page of something I almost always come back to find a page filled with drawings along with some completed work. Honestly sometimes I think he has five movies playing in his head at once and my greatest challenge is to capture his interest. If he is interested he follows well.

 

If not for the drawing part, this described me growing up to a T. Wait, I'm still like this ;)

[attaboygirl]

Conversely, I've been lobbed with the "it's your fault, Mom, you're a bad teacher" thing enough, I'm sick of it and am glad to finally have some explanations. ;)

 

But yes, your response is very gracious. I'm hoping for some explanations on a couple weird things that will arm me better to do what I already functionally know to do (count to three when you tell her something and don't just keep repeating it, lol).

 

Well, yeah, though I've never been accused by anyone of being a bad teacher (ouch!), I definitely felt better knowing that someone outside of me and my husband saw her strengths but also recognized where she was having lots of trouble, especially with her attention issues. Dd and I were both trying really hard to do the "right" thing, but it turns out that it's really the "fault" of neither of us. As they used to tell me on tv - knowing is half the battle ("gi joe!").

 

Oh, and note that the word I used is "better" with regards to responding to frustration appropriately. It's an ongoing struggle, especially with two years now of horrible, probably should do a sleep study he's so bad-at-it sleep issues with my little guy. I'm not as close to gracious as I'd like to be. ;)

 

And I'm completely with you on the struggle to decipher the "can't" vs. "won't" problem. We were headed to a really vapor-locked place with dd in a couple of subjects, and the np eval, plus reading here, plus really thinking about what the big picture is helped shove me towards our weird piecemeal system this year. I feel, for the first time, like I might be able to get us more successfully through the won'ts than we've been in the past.

[PeterPan]

Attaboy--Is it your 2 yo that has the sleep problems? My ds3 just started sleeping through the night pretty consistently in the last month or two. I think with him it was a combo of the low oral tone (fatigue with chewing, don't eat enough, hungry at night) and some reactions to milk that made him restless. Only now is he verbal enough to explain that when he was restless his stomach hurt. So we're doing the Houston Enzymes any time he gets into dairy (like RELIGIOUSLY, lol) and we constantly stuff him. Between the two, he sleeps now, hallelujah. But he's still in our room. I do the sidecar thing with one side off the crib. I think I would have lost my sanctification for good if I had been having to get up with all that. ;)

[Alte Veste Academy]

Very much this. I had those same worries; indeed that's where we were in May. But our neuropsych was a rock star - she made the whole testing process positive and interesting and reassuring for dd. And her report and our sit down meeting with her has actually turned me into a better teacher for her, in just that way - when I get frustrated with her for one of the myriad things that come up, I am so much better at regrouping and spinning it as being my "fault," if you will.

 

Thanks for sharing this. :)

 

Now our sons' similarities are getting creepy :lol:

 

Uh-huh, and when you put that together with this...

 

If not for the drawing part, this described me growing up to a T. Wait, I'm still like this ;)

 

we have the beginnings of self-realization on my part. I look at aspects of my kids' personalities and realize that there are many similarities to my own personality at these ages. I read the DDD book and I see my kids and myself. I am still this way now but I have the benefit/hindrance of age and experience. I can relate, but have I adapted to the point where I somehow think I was always able to adapt? Does that make sense? I think, "Well, I got straight As and never had problems in school." Oh, wait, there was the time I remember in 3rd grade, getting sent to the principal's office for not doing my homework 3x in a row. Interesting. I distinctly remember my reason being that it was too boring to bother with. :tongue_smilie: (I also remember that the punishment was going to be a spanking by the principal, but he had to call my mom first for permission. I could hear her light into him over the phone clear from the other side of the room. I'll never forget that. :lol:) Hmmm... Now I'm having flashbacks. I was in the GATE program but still required to do everything in my regular class and it was too boring for me... Here I am perpetrating the same crime on my DS even though I'm homeschooling. I'm so disappointed in my lack of insight and poor memory sometimes, seriously. :lol: Food for thought, for sure.

 

So, Sagira, I'm wondering if the point is to try to go back to our inner child and ask what she would have responded best to as a homeschooler. We have incredible opportunities to be wildly creative with how we teach. I did well in the system (I never failed to do my homework again :D) BUT I lost my thirst for knowledge in the quest for grades and accolades. Ironically, preventing this in the kids is one of my biggest reasons for keeping them out of the system.

 

I think I'm ready to throw all caution to the wind... :tongue_smilie:

Edited November 14, 2011 by Alte Veste Academy

[peacefully]

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[Alte Veste Academy]

Some of the things that I've been doing with my ds is to incorporate games or add silliness into skill practice (math, spelling, writing). Reading comes easily to ds, but I find it goes even better if he is given props to fully engage his (over-) active imagination. He often extends stories, imagining sequels, new endings, re-tellings from alternate points of view. I've used resources like Vocabulary Cartoons, Grammarland and Grammar Island, Games for Writing and The Write Start, GEMS units, Max Axiom science books (mini-graphic novels), interconnecting themes or topics within science, history, literature and math whenever possible, allowing him lots of time to process information in his idiosyncratic way. This last item often means that I have to abandon any hope of staying on a schedule. We progress when he is ready. We get to the next topic when he has exhausted his need to explore (and obsess) over his interests. The flip side of this is that this kid goes into more depth in any given topic than I would have ever anticipated.

 

I keep seeing a lot of overlap among the materials written for ADHD, VSL, gifted, dyslexic, right-brained, and now creative thinkers. Many of the instructional strategies are very similar. It looks like the DDD book that Alte Veste Academy linked (hi there, Kristina! :seeya:) is another one for my reading list.

 

I know there is a lot of interest on this board about investigating causes for these different thinking styles. That's valuable information, to be sure, but I hope we can also put a bit of energy into thinking about what works for these type of kids, regardless of the reasons why that might be.

 

:iagree: and :seeya:to you too.

 

This is our third year, our most successful yet, because I am learning to incorporate more things that are appropriate (and also because I'm folding DD and DS5 in more, so we're all involved and having some school fun together). Still, I think there's a chasm between what DS8's "perfect" school experience and what we're doing. Baby steps! Your description of how you're doing things is great to read! I think you will like DDD. It has lots of extremely practical suggestions.

 

I love your last point, which is why I'm now up to my elbows in books and ideas. :tongue_smilie:

[rafiki]

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[peacefully]

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[rafiki]

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