help me hive - Easily frustrated 14yo dd and spoon feeding

[love2read]

I debated whether to put this here or the high school board. I need advice as to what to do with this child who is a perfectionist and has always had a low threshold for frustration. I have dozens of books and curricula at my disposal that I used with her older siblings for high school, but despite teaching to her style and talent, she is often frustrated, not in math where she excels, but in all other subjects. She's very smart so that isn't the issue and she's not hormonal or spoiled.

 

Example, this morning for physical science she was learning about the atmosphere. With her older siblings they did calculations and experiments related to the different layers, but I knew that would frustrate her to the point of tears even with my help, not because she's dumb but because if she doesn't get it immediately she gets upset and blanks out. She likes to draw so I gave her the super easy and what I would consider a 5th grade assignment of making a chart showing the layers and what they contain. She's visual and likes to draw, so... She sat and stared at two books that showed atmospheric levels (including BJU earth science which she is using) and just felt to overwhelmed. Really? It's that frustrating to integrate information from two books that include pictures and all you have to do is copy the information on the pictures?

 

 

 

This isn't a hormone thing as she went through puberty years ago and I don't put up with temper tantrums or rude behavior. She exhibits more adult-like signs of frustration so I know it is truly overwhelmed and not just laziness. I worked through a book/program with her dealing with her perfectionism and it helped a little bit.

 

I don't know how to make this any easier for her without spoon feeding her, which I just don't want to do. She's one of my last and the older children all had an education very close to TWTM model. I'm at a loss as to what else to try.

[deacongirl]

Google gifted perfectionism. Have her read the book Mindset.

[AK_Mom4]

Google gifted perfectionism. Have her read the book Mindset.

 

:iagree:

gifted perfectionists. Combined with some typical teenage self-centerness and it's a sure recipe to drive you bonkers. This is an excellent book.

 

At age 14, I did have to do some hand-holding with DS to get thru the lessons. However, my experience was that simplifing the lesson just made things worse - he would struggle more with things that were too easy because he would paralyze himself with the knowledge that "this is simple - it has to be perfect". Throwing harder material at him actually helped let go of some of that perfectionism and cut himself a little slack. Just a thought....

[Julie in MN]

I don't think spoon feeding is so bad at 14. Remember publicschool at that age, when everyone wanted to do everything the same, and girlscompared notes on everything before making even the smallest move? I think it's hard to be on the threshold of adulthood, not knowing what's normal in your body let alone the world out there. And a homeschooled kid has few role models to try to emulate fir a while as she figures it all out. By spoon feeding, you're just taking the role of the girl in the next desk over, and your dd is peeking over your shoulder as she goes along, to be sure she's not mortifyingly off course. I'd expect some of that neediness to wear off soon as she comes into her own as a high schooler.

 

Just another way of looking at it,

Julie

[love2read]

Google gifted perfectionism. Have her read the book Mindset.

Thank you. Although I have two that tested gifted, I never considered it with this one because she's always been so different temperamentally.

By spoon feeding, you're just taking the role of the girl in the next desk over, and your dd is peeking over your shoulder as she goes along

You're right and I did do it occasionally with the other kids so I probably need to lighten up a bit. Thanks.

[LidiyaDawn]

A) 14 isn't finished with the hormones/etc - far from it! Goodness, you're right smack in the middle of the teen girl craziness. :tongue_smilie:

 

B) perhaps the "classical" model isn't the right way for her? at least not anymore…kids change as they grow up. [you mentioned the style and that your olders were successful with it - which is great. maybe she needs some different methods right now?]

 

Have you considered letting HER choose the way that she'll show you what she learned? Instead of "assigning" a drawing, a chart, a [whatever], let her decide how to share what she learned… maybe she'll write something, draw something, create a slideshow, paint something…who knows.

[Margo out of lurking]

Google gifted perfectionism. Have her read the book Mindset.

 

Which book is this, please? It sounds very interesting, and there are a few books with this title (but I can't tell which book it might be).

[deacongirl]

Thank you. Although I have two that tested gifted, I never considered it with this one because she's always been so different temperamentally.

 

You're right and I did do it occasionally with the other kids so I probably need to lighten up a bit. Thanks.

 

This could an indicate an LD or ADHD inattentive. I would consider an eval.

[deacongirl]

Which book is this, please? It sounds very interesting, and there are a few books with this title (but I can't tell which book it might be).

 

The one by Carol Dweck.

[bookfiend]

Problems with memory and short term processing? Have you ever read A Mind at a Time by Mel Levine?

[love2read]

Thanks! Taking everything into consideration and will be planning with her this weekend.

[Pippen]

Problems with memory and short term processing? Have you ever read A Mind at a Time by Mel Levine?

 

I was wondering about processing issues as well. Does it matter how you give instructions to her? ( ie simple written statement vs. oral, list form vs. paragraph, etc).

 

Often kids with some kind of issue(s) will become resistant. What looks like "I won't" to parents and teachers is really "I can't".

[deacongirl]

I was wondering about processing issues as well. Does it matter how you give instructions to her? ( ie simple written statement vs. oral, list form vs. paragraph, etc).

 

Often kids with some kind of issue(s) will become resistant. What looks like "I won't" to parents and teachers is really "I can't".

 

I really think a full eval. would be very helpful to determine what is going on--ITA with the above.

 

Also, they say if one child is gifted, test them all. Siblings tend to be relatively close (I have heard w/in 10 pts.) in IQ and so it is possible some kind of LD could be interfering here.

[KungFuPanda]

Have you tried a deadline and making yourself completely unavailable until it's finished? Her process is her own, as long as she can produce what your asking for she'll be OK. It's a life skill and how often do we get all the time in the world to do things perfectly? In college she can angst all she wants/needs to as long as she produces the finished product on time. Not everything is worth all of the time it can possibly take to get it perfect.

 

Ummm . . . This is a new tactic I'm trying with my own, VERY hormonal 14-year-old.

[Ester Maria]

Have you tried a deadline and making yourself completely unavailable until it's finished? Her process is her own, as long as she can produce what your asking for she'll be OK. It's a life skill and how often do we get all the time in the world to do things perfectly? In college she can angst all she wants/needs to as long as she produces the finished product on time. Not everything is worth all of the time it can possibly take to get it perfect.

This has been my tactic. It forces them to OWN the process.

 

Not all people will agree with me, but I think one should often just ignore these things and let kids mature at their own rate, without necessarily "validating" what is going on all the time (i.e. you discussed her perfectionism already, worked with her on it - but now you may need to stop, this may be the point at which you need to withdraw and let her deal with her life and demands the best she can, without your further active involvement regarding this particular issue). It may get better very soon. It may not. It may even be one of those core personality tendencies that she will have to handle on her own in adulthood. Who knows.

 

But meanwhile, she has to be able to DO what she is supposed to do, EVEN if it makes her anxious. Her perfectionism cannot excuse her from doing things she is supposed to do - that way, you only feed it. Sometimes leaving them alone to deal with it, paired up with reasonable deadlines and/or consequences (in terms of negative feedback, grade, whatever) for not doing it, works better than hand-holding, because it emulates a real life situation and forces them to exercise life skills. I am mentioning this because you say it is NOT a cognitive issue (you are not asking from her something she cannot give you) and not a random thing that happens once or twice, but something that is more of a constant. So, I propose a "sink or swim" tactic.

[Rebecca VA]

If she's that miserable, I would spoon-feed her. Break the assignment down into tiny parts and have her complete each part, showing you what she's done each time.

 

She may really be hormonal. Or she could be tired or getting sick. I'd encourage her and model what a good teacher should act like. She'll be able to break future assignments down herself when she's ready.

 

I took my daughter to swimming lessons this morning and was thinking about how long it has taken her to learn to swim. For years she could sort of swim but not very well. Finally, at 14, it has clicked, and she can rampage up and down the pool using any stroke on command. It took her longer than most kids to learn, but the knowledge came eventually. And it will with your daughter, too.

[love2read]

But meanwhile, she has to be able to DO what she is supposed to do, EVEN if it makes her anxious. Her perfectionism cannot excuse her from doing things she is supposed to do - that way, you only feed it. Sometimes leaving them alone to deal with it, paired up with reasonable deadlines and/or consequences (in terms of negative feedback, grade, whatever) for not doing it, works better than hand-holding, because it emulates a real life situation and forces them to exercise life skills.

Yes, I do need to do that. At this point she has the tools to deal with her anxiety and she's smart enough to think through these things logically on her own.

[Trilliums]

I have a 13 yo ds w/perfectionist tendencies who was having a hard time last year integrating information from different sources into a written paper. He worked through the last part of IEW SWI B which covers specifically how to approach this kind of an assignment. Now this kind of writing has become much easier for him and I see that the very specific set of instructions helped him narrow down his choices. Plus, I believe it helped him form in his mind a concept of a *right way* to complete this kind of assignment which helps him feel more confident in approaching the task. He likes to have directions to follow and he prides himself in doing them well. He loves to cook and follow recipes and end up with the chewiest, yummiest cookies, etc. I think he needed a recipe for writing too. :) Maybe your daughter needs a *recipe* to follow as well. My son does show a lot of creativity as well, but it is in different ways.

 

 

You might want to sit down with her and brainstorm over how to tackle an assignment like the one you described. If she has a set of parameters to aim for, she will have a better feel for whether or not she is doing it *right*. Also, in that kind of an assignment, some things have to be left out or condensed; this could be hard for her to accept as it seems as though the resulting work might be lacking.