Middle son questions again

[choirfarm]

A few things that happened this week that I'm not sure how to handle:

 

I ask them to pack their backpacks the night before our co-op. Oldest has NO problem with this whatsoever. He also does this the night before his college class. My 9year old also complies. Here is what I did with organizationally challenged middle one: He was working on his paper for my literary analysis class. He finished. I asked him if he printed it and he said no he would later. I told him he should probably print it so he didn't forget. I asked him 3 or 4 times that night if he had packed his backpack. He smiles at me and says no he will. Fast forward to the next morning. All of us are getting in the car and he is frantically printing out his essay and his AP Government study guide/practice test to do during study hall.:angry: And btw this happens every Tues/Thurs as well. His brother is heading out the door to drive them to CC and he is just getting his stuff together. It drives my oldest insane.

 

He lost computer privileges this weekend because he got mad at his little sister for being annoying and not being quite when he asked and he tore up an AWANA assignment that she had. Now was she correct? NO. But he could have gotten up and left the room. He is 14!!! To tear up and assignment she did on another sheet of paper that took her quite awhile is just wrong...

 

So, since he couldn't play the computer on Friday evening like he loves to do, he dragged his feet on his school. But then he had several online things to do for AP Government by 5pm Friday. Oldest son, had diligently worked and done all of his school. He has also done some household chores I asked him to do. We have one computer now. What middle son has left will take at least an hour, possibly 2... I went ahead and let the older one play for his hour before my younger one . GRRR But middle one didn't care. That just meant and hour that he didn't have to do school, so in a way it rewards him... ( Though I had him do his chores then.)

 

He won't keep up with his planner yet complains about my nagging him. He lost his IPOD and computer privileges a couple of weeks ago because he yelled at me and said Why don't you just shut up after nagging him about certain deadlines... UGH.

 

I don't know what else I can take away from him????

 

I talked to him about finding something to be involved in, something that uses his own special gifts. Then he wouldn't need to irritate his sister. Though he always has plenty of schoolwork he could be doing. I then talked about how his father and I did productive things. He then made a sarcastic remark about how his father and I were such perfect people, blah, blah blah.

 

I just don't know what to do. The thing is that both dh and I are first born, list-making, organized people.( Yes, unusual but honestly, I think a first born needs to marry a doctor. You have to be able to handle life yourself and not be "needy." I remember the babies of the family being married to some residents I knew, and they were sitting at home, moaning their fate, wishing their hubby were home so they could do something. Good grief. I'm not waiting on him!!! I go tons of places alone and find my own productive work. ) Our oldest is just like us. Middle is not. It drives me insane. Now, he can certainly be his own person, but his disorganization is affecting other people and his schoolwork.

 

I just can't figure out how to handle him.

Edited November 5, 2011 by choirfarm

[happyhomemaker]

I would stop reminding him of things. It doesn't seem like that is an effective course of action at the moment. Let him truly be responsible and then suffer the consequences if he is not. If he is not ready to go to CC, then he has to stay home or he has to go without his paper or backpack. If he doesn't finish the work for his online class, he gets a bad grade, etc. Or since he is acting like a child and not being responsible, treat him like one. Do not remind him to do something; tell him to do it. Don't give him the option of printing his paper out later. He must do it when you say to because he cannot be trusted with the responsibility of doing it later. I would sit down with him and explain the change in policy ( for either scenario) and how things will be handled with him from here on out.

 

I still have little kids so I'm sure others who have btdt will give some great advice. The above is just the first thing that popped into my head as to what I would do.

[elegantlion]

Have you read That Crumpled Paper that was Due Last Week?

 

Does he feel "less than" as a middle child with a different personality? My dh is the middle child and felt totally out of place with his family some time.

 

I would recommend reading up on different personalities as well. This might help see the world from his perspective a little more.

[choirfarm]

Have you read That Crumpled Paper that was Due Last Week?

 

Does he feel "less than" as a middle child with a different personality? My dh is the middle child and felt totally out of place with his family some time.

 

I would recommend reading up on different personalities as well. This might help see the world from his perspective a little more.

 

I have that book on the shelf. I'll take it out and reread it. What I remember from it was having to check their work and making them make notebooks and using planners, which I have been trying to do. But I'll take it back out.

 

And yes, he feels less than...always has. He reminds me of Jan on the Brady Bunch. Just substitute his older brother's name for "Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!"

 

\

[Jean in Newcastle]

What I have done with ds14 is to make it very cut and dried and very non-emotional. I would explain ONCE why the preparation for school needs to be done the day before at X time. It doesn't matter if he wants to do it then or not, his not being ready impacts others in the family and isn't simply an individual thing. Then I would ask him to choose either putting this on a to-do list or the calendar or whatever so that his deadlines/routine is there for him to see. Then I would make out a consequence list for not getting these things done - with the consequence to come at once the night before. The consequence in my son's case is simply telling him that if he doesn't do it on his own with his own prompts available to him, then I will micro-manage him through the process, something he hates. But at that point it doesn't matter because it is a natural consequence of him not following through.

 

I see it as a high school form of habit training ala Charlotte Mason.

[AK_Mom4]

Sorry - no great ideas here. Just :grouphug: - we have this at our house too.

 

Nagging doesn't work. Allowing DS15 to fail or be left behind a few times because he wasn't ready seemed to have done the most for getting him out the door on time with his school work.

[jhschool]

Hi

Please don't think I am being bossy--the following is my

heartfelt advice.

I don't really mean "No Compassion!" but what I mean is:

When you say: You really should print out your homework right now

what I would say is: Print out your homework right now.

Right. Now. If he says "I'll do it later," follow him around and

say "I said, You really should print out your homework right. Now."

And nothing happens until it is printed out. You can say, "If it is

not printed out in 5 minutes (or 10, or a reasonable amount of time),

there will be HUGE consequences (and by HUGE I mean NO more

ipod OR computer for a week). And set the timer. And let him know

you have set the timer. And then, when the timer goes off, have him

show you the printed out homework. If it is not there, no computer

for a week. And stick to it. You don't have to yell or anything , just

really matter-of-fact about everything.

Next time you say, "You should really print out your homework right

now," he will probably run and do it!

Same with packing the backpack.

Same with being nice to little sister.

[Ester Maria]

Have you thought about simply stopping to remind him about things and letting him suffer the consequences?

 

A paper is due Friday at 8 AM. If it is not on your desk by that time, lower the grade or even outright give him a zero for that assignment - still work it out with him like you would normally, but without the credit or with NEGATIVE credit.

 

He is not packed on time and it is not a five minute flexibility thing? He does not get to go.

 

Nagging is tiring for both you and him. If you take a no-nonsense approach and leave him alone, it is likely that it will only take a few incidents before he figures out he cannot get away with it anymore.

[choirfarm]

Well, I seem to have two camps: one be more specific and treat him more like I did when he was younger with tougher consequences. The other let him suffer natural consequences.... We would leave without him, believe me, but he always seems to finish just under the deadline. Plus, he thinks and somewhat rightfully so, that older brother and I are unreasonable about time. I HATE being late. In fact, I get most places 15 minutes early. He and his brother have been the first one to their 8 am class EVERY time. He teases us that big brother and I are yelling at him about how he is making them late, and they are still the first ones. For co-op, my big deal is that I teach the first class. I want to get there early to calmly set up. When I taught at ps, I typically got to school at 6:30am. I practically opened up the building. My most productive time is between 4 and 10 am. But then I wanted to flee the building as soon as possible because my least productive time was 4pm, and I typically went home and took a nap before I cooked dinner for hubby.

 

Anyway, I struggle with what is non-negotiable and what is not. I mean, he always gets it done. So if it isn't my way??? It is just hard for me to not take it personally. I learned a long time ago, that if I can't find things, if I'm running around trying to find it, I yell. I am a much nicer person when my ducks are all in a row. I am a control freak. Somehow, I have to disengage and realize that if he wants to live his life that way, it is his choice. On the other hand, shouldn't I be training him to do it my way, which is the better way!:tongue_smilie:( Said somewhat tongue in cheek)

 

It is just so hard to decide how to parent this age. Oldest is finding his wings and it is so fun to let him fly. I'm sure he will crash occasionally, but he seems to have his head screwed on straight. My middle one can't always find his head. Sigh...

[creekland]

Your middle son and my youngest might have come from the same mold. Since I'm still dealing with it, all I have are suggestions we've tried that seem to be working (most of the time).

 

First, give him more non-school responsibility. This has to be something "real" - not made up and it has to be something good for the family, not just himself. My guy jumps for these and is truly useful. However, we have more of these around the farm than you might have. The last one I gave him was getting a tree branch out of our pasture. He got to do it his way, did a good job, and loved every minute of it. We appreciated having it done. He appreciated being a "needed" member of our family.

 

We have gone to saying things once and letting him deal with consequences. Most of the time he'd get things done just before the deadline. Once or twice he missed and suffered consequences (which, fortunately, weren't horrid). He is now starting to figure out the advantage of doing things a little earlier himself. We totally quit nagging and it has helped our communication a lot otherwise. I try to remember to ask him his opinions on various things - often he gets overshadowed by older brother.

 

Gotta go... he's here. ;)

[choirfarm]

First, give him more non-school responsibility. This has to be something "real" - not made up and it has to be something good for the family, not just himself. My guy jumps for these and is truly useful. However, we have more of these around the farm than you might have. The last one I gave him was getting a tree branch out of our pasture. He got to do it his way, did a good job, and loved every minute of it. We appreciated having it done. He appreciated being a "needed" member of our family.

 

. ;)

 

Thanks. We actually live on 50 acres, so maybe this would work. He MUCH prefers outside chores to inside chores. It is so funny. My oldest happily does all inside chores: cleans his bathroom regularly without being asked. ( not up to my standard, but still..), will soon be getting up to do all the kids' laundry. (He does this on Mondays without fail, without prompting.) Middle child tries to disappear. He wiill put off inside chores. ( Which is why older brother does all the laundry. He won't let younger boy help because he doesn't do it on his time schedule or his way. ) Now outside chores are an opposite manner. Middle son will volunteer to do it. Will be the first one out the door to do it. Oldest one cannot be found, drags his feet, etc. Part of that is that mowing with the riding lawnmower really irritates his asthma, actually all outside work irritates his asthma.

 

Yet, their differences really get them. We have cows and since we are SO behind in rainfall, we have been having to feed them hay, practically all year. So middle boy is supposed to let them into the pen to eat. Then oldest son has the harder job to get them out of the pen after a few hours. Problem is that middle son isn't letting them out at the same time of day and/or doesn't let older son know so sometimes the cows stay in there too long and eat the hay too fast. This is driving oldest son crazy, so he is starting to just do the whole job. Maybe I should just make the cows completely my middle son't responsibility since his laundry is done by older brother. ( And don't tell me not to have him do that. They share clothes as in they wear the same things with the exception of jeans. So there is no way to separate his clothes from middle son's clothes. When I started having the boys do laundry 5 or 6 years ago, I had them alternate who did the laundry and middle one took FOREVER, hence he started doing all of their laundry on Mondays several years ago.)

[memphispeg]

My problem with the "get strict" policies are that kids will just throw up their hands and walk away from it all. (And what's an F going to do to their GPA, no college for them if that's going on a transcript!!!) I do not know how to strike a balance that will solve this problem. I like the idea of giving him responsibility that is "his". a simple, outdoor task that needs to be done that has just a small impact on everyone else in the family. Maybe instead of taking things away, positive reinforcement will work better, praise for a paper, praise for cow-organization, etc. Catch more with honey than with vinegar. For a boy, this may need to be super subtle?

[creekland]

I've got a couple more minutes now before my class comes in.

 

As a pp suggested, positive works much better than negative for my youngest. And yes, the "chores" work because he can take total ownership of them. What I would do with the cow situation is sit down and nicely explain why it's important to the family that the cows only eat for a certain amount of time and why you are now assigning him this whole chore to him (laundry tradeoff or whatever). Let him know in a nice way (as you would an employee) the facts and the benefits and that you are trusting him to do it. You might have to overlook an occasional "oops" but remember, we all have those. Buy him a timer to set if he isn't good at watching the clock.

 

The more we've let my youngest become an adult in the family by having things he is solely responsible for (and occasionally, but not too much praise for doing them) the better he has become with everything and the more he is trying.

 

Also, remember your guy is just 14 (mine turns 16 next month). The brain is still developing and sometimes he can't remember stuff even if he wants to (hence, the timer). Therefore, don't come down too harshly when that happens - be encouraging for another time. You don't want him to think he can't be successful at anything. That's sort of what he's telling himself now.

 

It is a different style of parenting than my middle son needed. My oldest sort of got this style anyway by virtue of his birth order and more responsibilities. Youngest wants something to do that he can take charge of that solidifies his place in the family and makes him feel "just as good" as oldest or middle. And in the meantime, I've had to remind him less about gym clothes, picking up his dishes (that one is harder, but it's coming), and being prepared. Not nagging goes against my nature as I like to be prepared ahead of time, but I'm holding my tongue and merely mentioning some things occasionally and it is working better.

 

One really nice thing youngest got is when we were "helping him" get weeds out of our field. He got to tell us what he wanted and where, etc. It wasn't what I would have done, but it was just as good to be honest - and really helped him feel needed.

 

Yesterday he chose to make French bread (from scratch) for the whole family. That's totally out of the blue (his idea) as I'm not fond of cooking and never make bread from scratch. He enjoyed it and enjoyed providing part of our meal for the evening.

[Teachin'Mine]

If he's getting it done, but just under the deadline, then I would stop nagging. I'd sit down and explain that there's a new policy in place. I won't be nagging, and your brother will be leaving at x time - on the dot. If you're in the car, you get to go, if not, he will leave without you. No more nagging, no more tension. Natural consequences. Synchronize watches so there's no debate. ;)

 

As a procrastinator, unfortunately I understand both sides. :tongue_smilie: