Thinking of "sorta" tomato staking my 9 yo?

[Halcyon]

I don't know a lot about this, and am looking at it more as a parenting tool than a tool to instill Godly values in my children. My oldest has a bad tendency of teasing his younger brother, not recognizing "when to stop", exacerbating situations. We have tried many approaches to curb this behavior (and it's not like he's not nice to his brother--there are many moments of lovely playing, and he often compliments his writing and drawing, but I am always waiting for the other shoe to drop).

 

I do feel as though I can't trust him to not escalate a situation, to not push his brother's buttons. I leave the room to go print up something for homeschool and I return to find younger crying and older screaming "I didn't DO anything!!!" Yes, younger tends to be over-reactive, but as I said to older "if you don't tease him, there's nothing for him to react to in the first place!"

 

So, thinking about tomato staking: not sure what this entails, really, in a situation like this. He's a good kid, hardworking, helps me do chores without complaint, studious, diligent and loving. But he also doesn't have a good sense of limits when it comes to his brother, and that's something that I really, really want to help him with. Do I let him do his sports (the only thing he really loves) or do I take them away for a week as a consequence, keeping him close to me as I go about my business? His sports are the equivalent of some kids' video games/tv/DS--it would seriously "impact" him if we took them away. Fair or not fair? Does tomato staking involve taking those things away?

 

I need to keep him close until I feel he can be trusted not to goad his brother. And what does one do if he is in my sight, but still begins teasing his brother, goading him, etc.? What then?

Edited September 25, 2011 by Halcyon

[texasmama]

In your situation, I would use tomato staking as a consequence in and of itself, while framing it to the oldest as a teaching tool (which it is:001_smile:). I wouldn't use removal of sports privileges for the behaviors you describe. I would have a sit down, serious talk with him about my expectations for his behavior toward his brother, tell him what you will be doing and then every time he does it, quickly say, "That is what I want you to change" or "That is the behavior I am talking about". It should be aversive enough for him to be tomato staked and to have his behavior addressed. I wouldn't think that other consequences are necessary. I also don't think it should take very long to make a change. If you are doing this for more than a few days to a week, then I think you need to look at another method. Your oldest should understand that when he earns your trust in the way he manages his tongue where his brother is concerned, he will earn back his freedom.

 

That said, it would need to be pretty bad for me to intervene between my two boys. They are fairly "well matched", though, so I can typically give them ownership of handling their own conflicts. Your guys are a bit further apart in age, and I suspect that the 6 year old is getting the raw end of the deal quite a bit for you to be considering this.

[tntgoodwin]

What is tomato staking?

[Caitilin]

Check out raisinggodlytomatoes.com. :)

[Halcyon]

In your situation, I would use tomato staking as a consequence in and of itself, while framing it to the oldest as a teaching tool (which it is:001_smile:). I wouldn't use removal of sports privileges for the behaviors you describe. I would have a sit down, serious talk with him about my expectations for his behavior toward his brother, tell him what you will be doing and then every time he does it, quickly say, "That is what I want you to change" or "That is the behavior I am talking about". It should be aversive enough for him to be tomato staked and to have his behavior addressed. I wouldn't think that other consequences are necessary. I also don't think it should take very long to make a change. If you are doing this for more than a few days to a week, then I think you need to look at another method. Your oldest should understand that when he earns your trust in the way he manages his tongue where his brother is concerned, he will earn back his freedom.

 

That said, it would need to be pretty bad for me to intervene between my two boys. They are fairly "well matched", though, so I can typically give them ownership of handling their own conflicts. Your guys are a bit further apart in age, and I suspect that the 6 year old is getting the raw end of the deal quite a bit for you to be considering this.

 

Thank you for your input. My boys are not particularly "well-matched". Older loves sports, games, interactive stuff, rough-housing. Younger likes drawing, creating, building, sharing stories, cuddling, dolls, pretend play, playing spies. There is some overlap in their interests but not a lot. My younger needs to feel protected by us and we have made our wishes known explicitly to our older as to what he needs to do (or not do) to gain our trust. He DOES feel badly and recognizes he's making poor choices, but then he just goes back and does it again. I think he needs a serious reality check so he can truly see how his behavior impacts his brother, and I am debating the right way to approach this.

[texasmama]

Thank you for your input. My boys are not particularly "well-matched". Older loves sports, games, interactive stuff, rough-housing. Younger likes drawing, creating, building, sharing stories, cuddling, dolls, pretend play, playing spies. There is some overlap in their interests but not a lot. My younger needs to feel protected by us and we have made our wishes known explicitly to our older as to what he needs to do (or not do) to gain our trust. He DOES feel badly and recognizes he's making poor choices, but then he just goes back and does it again. I think he needs a serious reality check so he can truly see how his behavior impacts his brother, and I am debating the right way to approach this.

 

Sounds like there is hope if the oldest feels badly. That is a start!:D By "well matched", I meant that my boys are more like twins intellectually, emotionally, etc. They are operating on a similar playing field, with the younger one being the more stubborn and less sensitive of the two, which evens out the age difference. I think that makes for an easier time for me as a parent because no one is a "victim". They can both dish it, so they can both learn to take it.;) I understand your desire to change the dynamic between your boys through intervention.

 

I wish you well in your venture and hope you will give an update. :001_smile:

[Halcyon]

THanks Carol for sharing your insight. I will let you know how it goes. Can I ask-he does after school two days a week when he is away from me and I work--would he need to skip this? There is an extra room off my office where he can sit and read. We'd still pay for the after school, unfortunately. He rarely if ever has problems with other kids, so i don't' worry about leaving him there at all. But wondering as far as continuity for the "staking' part if he should stay near me.

[Halcyon]

Also, do you think it would be helpful, or harmful, for younger to write older a letter outlining why the teasing hurts him so much, and reminding him of all the fun things they can do together that don't involve teasing. Overkill?

[LibraryLover]

Whatever you decide, don't assume the younger child is not somewhat out of line as well. Some littles do provoke and many understand quite well how to press the buttons of older sibs. :) Sometimes even a 'big' sib can only take so much as they are also still young. Often big brothers or sisters are held to a much higher standard than younger siblings. Something to keep in mind. :) Not that you haven't. Simply putting it 'out there'.

[Terabith]

Yes, youngers can be pretty good at provoking the older in an under the radar sort of way. And they can be sneaky about it. Not saying this is the case, but in my (limited) experience, it is often more of an equal opportunity provocation match than it looks like at first.

 

I don't think having the younger write a letter is a good idea. I think it gives the younger too much power, to be honest. It can imagine it leading to a sort of smugness in the younger.

 

I think tomato staking at home is a good idea, in that it helps teach how to interact with the sibling. But, after school and sports are not areas where there are problemsome interactions. At that point it becomes a punishment rather than true discipline. I don't see the point.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Terabith

[Cassy]

Yes, youngers can be pretty good at provoking the older in an under the radar sort of way. And they can be sneaky about it. Not saying this is the case, but in my (limited) experience, it is often more of an equal opportunity provocation match than it looks like at first.

 

I don't think having the younger write a letter is a good idea. I think it gives the younger too much power, to be honest. It can imagine it leading to a sort of smugness in the younger.

 

I think tomato staking at home is a good idea, in that it helps teach how to interact with the sibling. But, after school and sports are not areas where there are problemsome interactions. At that point it becomes a punishment rather than true discipline. I don't see the point.

 

:iagree: With my boys there are almost always two sides to the tale. I think a mother's instinct is always to protect the younger child, regardless of what's actually been going on. In my experience getting too intense about sibling bickering and squabbling just leads to resentment, which does nothing to enhance the possibility of a healthy, happy relationship in the future.

 

Cassy

[FriedClams]

IMHO, tomato staking is nothing more than keeping your kids really close so you so you can mentor and guide behavior. Sometimes it means discipline, but if you are with them you can catch it early and guide them, which means there shouldn't be discipline needed. So I think your idea to keep him close and guide his behavior is a great idea. When he starts teasing, you can help him see what's silly fun and what's mean. You can show him the signs that younger is showing that indicate he's unhappy. Its not a painful, harsh method - it's close, focused guiding. I think you're going to do great.

 

As for your questions - I'd only skip other activities (sports, after care, etc) if it were a really serious relationship situation and one where the kids were ugly at home and treated everyone else well. In that case, in my house we'd need to learn how to behave at home with the most important people before exporting our behavior. It sounds like you are fine tuning, so I would focus really hard at home, in the car, etc. but not skip anything yet.

 

For the youngest - no, I'd skip a letter. With the personality you described, they may need to lesrn to assert themselves more and be a victim less. I'd stake him too and train him on not overreacting, not tattling, and defending what they need. My reactor kid has learned, slowly, the not reacting means the attacks slowly stop. It takes a while, but it's worth it.

 

HTH!! I think it's going to work out really well for you and your guys!!

[Halcyon]

Whatever you decide, don't assume the younger child is not somewhat out of line as well. Some littles do provoke and many understand quite well how to press the buttons of older sibs. :) Sometimes even a 'big' sib can only take so much as they are also still young. Often big brothers or sisters are held to a much higher standard than younger siblings. Something to keep in mind. :) Not that you haven't. Simply putting it 'out there'.

 

 

Thanks. I am aware that younger is over-reactive, meaning small things that should be easily shrugged off cause him to scream, which in turn gets his brother in trouble (and he knows it). He also has consequences for screaming, when the better choice would have been to come to me. We're also trying desperately to teach him to ignore his brother but that's very hard. Also, there have been times when older plays younger's choice of game, and in return younger is supposed to play older's choice of game but balks. We've told him that this is not acceptable, and that a deal is a deal.

 

So yes, younger is not perfect :tongue_smilie:

[Halcyon]

IMHO, tomato staking is nothing more than keeping your kids really close so you so you can mentor and guide behavior. Sometimes it means discipline, but if you are with them you can catch it early and guide them, which means there shouldn't be discipline needed. So I think your idea to keep him close and guide his behavior is a great idea. When he starts teasing, you can help him see what's silly fun and what's mean. You can show him the signs that younger is showing that indicate he's unhappy. Its not a painful, harsh method - it's close, focused guiding. I think you're going to do great.

 

As for your questions - I'd only skip other activities (sports, after care, etc) if it were a really serious relationship situation and one where the kids were ugly at home and treated everyone else well. In that case, in my house we'd need to learn how to behave at home with the most important people before exporting our behavior. It sounds like you are fine tuning, so I would focus really hard at home, in the car, etc. but not skip anything yet.

 

For the youngest - no, I'd skip a letter. With the personality you described, they may need to lesrn to assert themselves more and be a victim less. I'd stake him too and train him on not overreacting, not tattling, and defending what they need. My reactor kid has learned, slowly, the not reacting means the attacks slowly stop. It takes a while, but it's worth it.

 

HTH!! I think it's going to work out really well for you and your guys!!

 

 

Thank you. Yes, overreacting on the part of the younger is a huge issue, and the situation escalates from there. Often, older is behaving in a way that would elicit a laugh from a friend, but makes younger cry. So he needs to learn to recalibrate his behavior, be more attuned to his younger brother's perspective. Younger needs to learn how to "let it go".

 

So when you say I should stake both of them....how does that work? My plan was to actually keep them a bit separate from each other during the staking.

 

(Actually, as a homeschooler, they're both "staked" pretty much all day LOL. We have a small home! :001_smile:)

[Halcyon]

Hey Wendy-yes, bonkers would be the right word :tongue_smilie: They DO play nicely together, which unfortunately lulls me into a false sense of security...:lol: then BAM...a fight ensues. So exhausting. It's gotten worse lately, so I am taking drastic measures. Tomato staking starts tomorrow! I will let you all know what happens.

[Snickerdoodle]

So when you say I should stake both of them....how does that work? My plan was to actually keep them a bit separate from each other during the staking.

 

(Actually, as a homeschooler, they're both "staked" pretty much all day LOL. We have a small home! )

 

Yes! Small home here too. I often keep one of mine with me in the kitchen to do his schoolwork and the other does his elsewhere.

 

Bickering also means that you have too much free time in my house. Believe me, as small as our home is and as much time as we spend in it, I can always find extra chores for them to do.

[texasmama]

THanks Carol for sharing your insight. I will let you know how it goes. Can I ask-he does after school two days a week when he is away from me and I work--would he need to skip this? There is an extra room off my office where he can sit and read. We'd still pay for the after school, unfortunately. He rarely if ever has problems with other kids, so i don't' worry about leaving him there at all. But wondering as far as continuity for the "staking' part if he should stay near me.

 

If he is not with the little brother, I would send him. (I think I'd send him even if he was with the little brother...) That is a limited time away from you, and I don't think it will invalidate the rest of your plan.

[texasmama]

I'd skip the letter writing from the younger, as other posters advised.

 

IMO, your goal should be a quick and intense intervention (which in and of itself should feel a bit aversive to the kids) with the end goal of the boys managing their own conflicts in a *mostly* age appropriate way.

 

My boys fight and argue quite a bit. I ignore most of it, separate them when they cannot work it out (or when it makes me crazy:tongue_smilie:) and give them talks about the value of a brother over a lifetime. Because they are more "equals", I will send them to their room together to work out a solution to their problems and return to me to present the solution. They are not able to do anything fun until the solution is reached. This causes them to police themselves and saves my sanity. Also, if someone has hurt feelings to the point of crying (and it could be either one), I step in and do some teaching/relationship repair. My boys share a room and are together literally almost 24/7 so this leads to interesting times at my house.:glare:

 

Sibling relationships are really a fascinating study. Through observation of adult sibling groups, it is clear that some of the dynamics and roles last a lifetime and become ingrained and difficult to change, so I think it is wise to make a run at helping them to have a more positive dynamic now.

[Halcyon]

If he is not with the little brother, I would send him. (I think I'd send him even if he was with the little brother...) That is a limited time away from you, and I don't think it will invalidate the rest of your plan.

 

 

Thanks. Okay, so Project Tomato Stake begins tomorrow!