beccad777 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 This is our first year doing MFW, so we are doing ECC. I read how great it was and how rich and how much kids learned. We are almost finished with week 5 and I have to say, I am bored to death! :bored: I feel like there is no depth to the study of the countries or the science. It is also taking us all day with LA and math added in. I don't have time for extra experiments or lots of read alouds. Most of it seems to go over my second grader's head or is very uninteresting to her. I am thinking of enrolling her (2nd grader) in K12 so she has something interesting and engaging. I feel so disorganized and like something is lacking. I need something open and go with little prep and I thought MFW was that. Then I read on the MFW boards that you were supposed to add stuff in to the countries and science. :confused: I guess I am just discouraged and needed to vent. I expected to love it and I really just don't. I like the Bible, but the rest is kind of disappointing. I don't really know where to go from here. I can't spend a ton of money on new stuff, but I don't want them to be bored all year either. I am having many curriculum woes this year! :001_huh: Thanks for listening if you got this far! :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3peasinapod Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 :grouphug: I really am sympathetic. I did that and had to tweak so much the original curriculum was not the same anymore. We didn't have funds to purchase a whole new curriculum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C&R Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 (edited) Thank you for sharing your woes. I know it doesn't help you, that your post may have helped me, when you are needing curriculum and that they don't have a return policy; but thank you for possibly helping me. I Love MFW Bible too, but... well... I have a very very gifted/advanced kid. It makes all curriculums difficult to be honest. He loves SL books. He figures out most math long before his Singapore curriculum gets to it. He is reading grades & grades & grades ahead. This all aside though I can relate to what you are saying. I Love MFW Bible, I love their Bible integration... but I have been struggling through ADV now for 8 1/2 months, with 2 months off for summer, and well.. it bores me. Yet, I love the Bible. I completely understand. My son has learned a lot, but we also had all the reading done in the first 1 - 2 months with extra books put in. I do find MFW boring; great Bible & phonics though. I have been trying to decide if I was going to use ECC or Core D after ADV. Thank you for your post. I think the way to pull the most out of ECC, from my understanding, is to really do the book basket. Get the books in the appendix from the library on the different countries. I haven't done ECC, but that is my understanding. I have read many mixed reviews on ECC science, including on the MFW board. I have read the missionary stories myself; perhaps read those for inspiration. Although I must admit I wouldn't want to read all of them to a 2nd grader. Good Luck figuring it all out. Edited September 21, 2011 by C&R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 :grouphug: I remember when we did it, most of their learning came from the book basket selections from the library. Extra projects from the craft books and the internet were a nice addition, too. The TM schedule was a good way to keep on track and focused, but not very engaging by itself. I had to use the curriculum as a launching pad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mama25angels Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I am so sorry you're not enjoying ECC, look up posts by Crystal on the MFW board and hopefully, you'll get some ideas on making it through the curriculum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samiam Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 (edited) I feel like there is no depth to the study of the countries or the science. It is also taking us all day with LA and math added in. I don't have time for extra experiments or lots of read alouds. Then I read on the MFW boards that you were supposed to add stuff in to the countries and science. :confused: Hmmm, not to discount your feelings. But, I don't understand what you mean by "adding stuff it for countries and science". You aren't supposed to ADD stuff, there's already PLENTY of stuff scheduled. We are in Week 6, so I am just a bit ahead of you. There is plenty to do for Mexico, so much as a matter of fact, we are going doing Mexico for a 3rd, unscheduled week, because we ran out of time to do some of the fun things I wanted to do, ie make a pinata, and a few other things art projects and movies. Lots of read alouds? There's only one schedule read-aloud per week. Yes, there's Bible which you would read aloud. But if you are referring to the Book Basket,*if your children are reading on their own, then they should be reading those books themselves. Which is a great way to bring it down to your 2nd grader's level. Honestly some days the actual Geography part of ECC, takes us only 10 minutes. It's like "read two pages from Illustrated Atlas". Done. Today, we learned about and colored the Mexico flag. Took us about 20-30 minutes. Yes, Math, Language Arts, those things tend to take us longer. But those are our are "Core" subjects, and I expect them to be a big part of our day, with my younger children. I mean, first you say there is "no depth" but in that same paragraph you say you don't have time for experiments or "extra read-alouds". So which is it? Do you want depth, or do you want quick and easy? MFW can be either, really. If you do it by the book, it's normally quick and easy. If you use the book basket for additional information, it adds depth. There's even more depth for the Advanced portions, if you have older elementary children, up to 8th grade. It's okay if MFW ECC is not for you. But I wonder if you know what you want, if you don't have time for "extras", want it all laid out (which MFW is) but yet don't want/can't follow those plans, want depth, and sounds like you want shorter days. ps. I do want to qualify that we are not using the POE science, nor the LA recommendations for MFW, so I can't advise on the science issues. Edited September 21, 2011 by Samiam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriedClams Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I didn't love ECC either. After the birds of Adventures I just felt like it was the same thing over, and over, and over. My friends loved it....I hated it. We made it about 12-14 weeks before I dropped it. After that I did SOTW1 and then a year of MOH. I am now back with MFW - explorers to 1850. I LOVE it again, and I deeply regret what we missed in the last two cycles. Yes, we covered the ages with other resources, but we missed the bible tie-in, which I have heard is awesome. I am glad that we will be able to redo those cycles with the kids, they'll just be a little older. If you do change, please consider doing MFW next year when you get into the history cycles. It really is very different. I think it would be more of what you were looking for this year (or sell ECC and start in with Egypt, which is what I wish we had done). Also, isn't ECC for older kids? I think that could be why it's going over their head. I'd add some books on the countries that are more age appropriate for the second grader. If I remember the time that we did ECC my kids enjoyed the book basket, the map work, and the food suggestions. But again, don't give up on MFW from ECC. The other cycles really are very different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beccad777 Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share Posted September 22, 2011 I get that there is only one read aloud scheduled per week, but people are saying that the book basket is where the depth comes in. If my second grader is not reading well yet, then those books become read alouds out of necessity. My fourth grader reads well, but says he gets little out of the book basket books, and I get most of the recommended books from the library so there are plenty from which to choose. Maybe I need to try to set some time to read and discuss a few books from the book basket with them. I do want quick and easy, but I want it so that they understand it and find it interesting as well. I guess I find the multi level teaching difficult. Maybe it is just a big learning curve and I am having a hard time adjusting. I don't have a problem with experiments, and we have done the ones scheduled. I read that people are adding lots of other projects and experiments that they got from other sources that were not scheduled and that was where they found the depth in the program. Thanks to all those who responded and have tried to help or encourage! :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairyMom Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 :grouphug: I felt the same about Adventures and MFW K. FWIW, MFW resells well. Hope you find something you enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbollin Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I saw my name mentioned over here.... eek! can I run and hide? If it is past the return date for them... you can sell it. It will resell. They do allow returns and if it is past the 30 days, call anyway and ask. the worst they'll say is no, and then you can sell it online somewhere. I have some ideas that hopefully you can use to make the year a bit better. Use what works from my ideas or whatever. or toss it all aside and get something else. But if you want ideas to make it work, I've done ECC twice. first when oldest was 2nd grade (before ADV was written), and then 5 years after that with a 7th and 4th grader, and my youngest in Kindy. so clearly, I like it and did well with it. Your oldest is just 9. It doesn't have to be "in depth" at this point. ;) You can have the 4th grader do some of the research pages. Now are those the most exciting things? well no, but it adds an element of learning to cross reference material. You are just getting to the week with the geography game and they will begin to learn the names and locations of a lot of countries over the course of the year. Don't skip that. Your 2nd grader who is just learning to read.... book basket can be picture books, or just enjoying the pictures and captions. You don't have to read everything from book basket to have a good year with this student. Do more crafts, make the flags.... pray from Window on the World. Sing another song from Wee Sing cd. Use book basket as part of your language arts time. but for that just learning to read child..... you don't have to read much each day to them. pick 10 minutes together and make it part of the time of day where that student can read a little out loud to you. If they don't hear every possible book, it is going to be ok. Also, over the whole year, you will be surprised at how much your children will learn. You'll get an idea of how places and people are similar. You get some ideas how they are different. taste the foods. yum. go buy something from grocery store if needed. Yes, as adults, we can get bored fast. With the set up in something like a year long study in geography and cultures you will find that a lot of a program is about teaching children how people are similar and different around the world. Are you just reading from the package books, or using them to discover together? I wish I could explain the difference a bit. I know when I did ECC the first time with my oldest who was in 2nd grade, at first I just read the stuff. dull, snooze.. whatever. But then around week 5 or 6 or something, I began to sit on the couch with her and open the Illustrated Atlas and began to give the information as a tour guide.... and we'd pretend to be on a guided tour. So I had fun with it. We got out monopoly and barbie cash register money and did currency exchange and bought our breakfasts. I'd play background music from children's songs in the country (library music or these days online if you want). We'd decorate the school room each day with just a little something. Adding to the science? Are you using 2nd edition with Properties of Ecosystems? I seldom hear people saying that is too light. Are you doing the nature walks? and journals? Are you getting out there and digging in your backyard as scheduled? Are you taking the time to make the crafts and do the cooking together? Those were fun for us. Not overwhelming... one cooking project every other week. How about if for this week in Mexico and next week -- you have a Mexican breakfast? does your grocery store carry any chocolate mix in the Mexican food section? You said you're spending a lot of time on language arts and math. Can you do your ECC stuff first, then get language arts and math done after? What about setting a time frame for language arts and math each day and after a set amount of time -- move on for the day. I think some people call that "loop scheduling?" maybe? how about this? did you read the God Speaks Numangang book? What if you guys decided to raise funds for Bible translation or for any missionary from your church? Maybe if you have a few "real people" that you know, it can make learning some other countries a little bit more exciting and personal? does any of that spark any ideas or just make you realize that it's the program that isn't going to work for you at all? -crystal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DianeW88 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Yeah, I hated it, too. Much preferred WP's "Children Around the World". Not all curriculums work for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamolina Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Crystal- I don't know if that will help the OP or not but I found it very helpful and encouraging as I plan to start ECC in March. I want to make it a fun time for us, and I think it will be a great time to learn these topics as we will also be moving to another country. I especially like the tip to teach it like a tour guide instead of just reading out loud. Thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chloe Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I do want quick and easy, but I want it so that they understand it and find it interesting as well. I guess I find the multi level teaching difficult. :001_smile: I understand this completely. I've always found it much harder to keep everyone together for history and science. So now I don't worry about it. My oldest two are only a year apart, so they do the same thing, but independently (basically a modified Sonlight Core H). I try to discuss what they are learning with them on a weekly basis. I do history with my dyslexic 3rd grader, as he's not reading on his own yet. I'm doing a middle ages study with him because that's what he's interested in right now. My almost 5yo listens in as she wants to. I only do reading instruction and picture book read-alouds with her right now. I tried MFW ECC last year when my dc were 7th, 6th and 2nd graders. It was a huge flop because a lot of the material was over the head of my 2nd grader, and some of the material was too young for my older two. I think it's harder to meet everyone's academic needs while trying to study the same thing. I hope you find what works for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C&R Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I understand this completely. I've always found it much harder to keep everyone together for history and science. So now I don't worry about it. :iagree: I find it too hard to meet completely different needs and levels with one program too. They are close in age, but in much to different places academically to keep all of them challenged & in the same place. I think the best curriculum is one that mom can do and allows the children to learn & maintain the natural joy & curiosity they have as children. Since we are all individual moms I also think what we can do is different for every family & person, and sometimes different for different siblings. I hope it comes together for you soon... with ECC... or with whatever you can do as a mom successfully with your particular children. Oh, yes for me too.;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelissaMinNC Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Why don't you try completely forgetting about any worksheets for a few weeks? JUST do the geography game, cooking, art projects and science experiments? Everytime I start to get bored and/or feel like I can't fit everything in, I realize that I am putting too much emphasis (for the ages of my children, and I think yours are similar) on the worksheets and not enough on the activities. The reality is, my kids learn as much - probably more - from the book basket books and the "fun" stuff as they do from the textbooks and worksheets. So, I'd try that, just because I hate to give up on stuff after only a few weeks. Entirely your call, of course, but I think I'd change HOW I do it before deciding not to do it at all. (Just curious - are the kids not enjoying it? Or are you the only one who's bored? I've found my kids have much more of a tolerance for the repetitive rhythm than I do - sometimes I'm like, really? Another flag sheet? But my kids are like, "Yay! Another flag sheet!" LOL) Peace, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffeefreak Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I think it's the age. We're doing ECC for the first time with a 3rd grader and a 6th grader. They're both really enjoying it, but I skip a lot of the study sheets and activities with my 3rd grader. I guess I would recommend shelving it and doing Galloping the Globe with your 2nd grader. I did it with my oldest in 1st/2nd grade and she loved it. It's cheap enough that you won't go broke buying another curriculum :) Since you own MFW, you could continue doing the Bible portion, but I wouldn't continue on if you're in week 5 and not enjoying it. As for the science, my youngest is enjoying the science, but I've already homeschooled my oldest through this age so I add things without even thinking about it. Case in point, we read about the water cycle yesterday and I remembered a worksheet in a book we still own that has the water cycle to color and fill out. I jumped up, printed it out and had youngest fill it out. I also remembered we own a copy of The Magic Schoolbus Wet All Over. I pulled it off the bookshelf and had my youngest read it. Galloping the Globe includes Science by using Considering God's Creation which is a wonderful science study for this age. I would highly recommend purchasing that too. Once again, inexpensive and we've used pages and units from it to enhance several science curriculum over the years. Well worth your money. Blessings! Dorinda PS FWIW, we did not start MFW until two years ago, and we didn't start with ECC. MFW just didn't fit my oldest's learning or school cycles when she was younger. We started with EX-1850 in 4th grade and it's been a great fit for us. It might be that you need to wait a couple of years and try it again.-Blessings! Dorinda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffeefreak Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I get that there is only one read aloud scheduled per week, but people are saying that the book basket is where the depth comes in. If my second grader is not reading well yet, then those books become read alouds out of necessity. My fourth grader reads well, but says he gets little out of the book basket books, and I get most of the recommended books from the library so there are plenty from which to choose. Maybe I need to try to set some time to read and discuss a few books from the book basket with them. I do want quick and easy, but I want it so that they understand it and find it interesting as well. I guess I find the multi level teaching difficult. Maybe it is just a big learning curve and I am having a hard time adjusting. I don't have a problem with experiments, and we have done the ones scheduled. I read that people are adding lots of other projects and experiments that they got from other sources that were not scheduled and that was where they found the depth in the program. Thanks to all those who responded and have tried to help or encourage! :001_smile: Sorry! I didn't realize your oldest was a 4th grader. However, I still would try something different if it's not really clicking with your 2nd grader. If you want to keep with multi-level teaching, GTG and CGC is still a cheap, great way to go. If your oldest is doing fine with ECC, and it's just your younger, you could either: 1. Split the two and do ECC with the oldest, something else with the 2nd grader. 2. Keep ECC and check out library books age appropriate for your 2nd grader about each country you're studying. Don't have your 2nd grader do the student sheets (some of them my 3rd grader isn't even able to do). Instead, find a workbook, or join an education website like edhelper.com, and print off activity sheets about the country you're studying. My opinion is this, in 2nd grade you're introducing them to these things and it's not worth it if the curriculum is a headache to you. Last year, we did MFW 1850-Mod with oldest and I bought the 2nd/3rd grade add-ons. All we really did was read the books recommended (and we didn't get through them all), and did the recommended worksheets. We really focused on proficiency in reading and math facts. Blessings! Dorinda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelissaMinNC Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 but people are saying that the book basket is where the depth comes in. Sorry, should have read through everything before I posted. I personally don't feel that all the depth comes from book basket. I think there is plenty of depth in what's in the grid - especially for a 2nd grader! Even for my 9yo I feel like book basket is more "gravy" than "main course" kwim? Imo, 2nd grade is still mostly about the 3 R's. Then, they can soak up plenty of content from you giving a summary of what's in PoE while they do a science experiment. Or they can color a map, do an art project, whatever, while you're reading to them from the encyclopedia, or giving them a summary of the info that you've read. Just trying to think out loud with you, and do a little brainstorming on what might make this more enjoyable or workable for you. In our house book basket is purely for "fun, no pressure" reading - my 1st grader looks at the pictures. (Usually, the way this happens here is if I need to change a diaper or throw in a load of laundry or whatever, I'l tell the 9 & 6 yo to take 10 minutes for book basket - they grab a book of their choosing and enjoy.) IF I have time, and if he's really interested in a particular book, I'll do it as a read-aloud. My dh does the missionary bios out loud with my 9yo dd at bedtime, so that saves a bit of time during the day. I'm trying to think of anything else that may be helpful, but I don't know. My personal feeling is that 1st and 2nd graders don't need tons of depth in these content areas. They just need to know that (for instance), there is this place called Brazil, and here it is on the map, and here it is compared to where we are. And in this place called Brazil, there are kids your own age, and they're learning the same kinds of things that you're learning. And our God who loves us, also loves them. And maybe they don't know about Jesus, and maybe we can pray about that. And if they also happen to learn that Brazil is on a continent called South America, and that there is a river called the Amazon - then, yay! And if they don't - it's OKAY, because they are little and they will know those things, eventually, but right now they just don't need to become Brazil (or insert name of country here) experts. I feel like I can never really convey what I mean on the internet, so just ignore me if everything I say sounds crazy. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewe Mama Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 ECC was not my favorite year of MFW either. I finished it with our eldest last year (by gritting my teeth) and decided that when it's time to do it with the boys we will only do portions of ECC as written. The majority of it will come from Galloping the Globe (which uses several ECC books) and Expedition Earth downloaded from www.confessionsofahomeschooler.com . After all of the excitement from reading the MFW boards and anticipating ECC to be the best year ever, I was disappointed. It got to be so...blech... towards the end. I figure by the time I do it with our youngest, I will have it all figured out! I will be using MFW for DD8 next year and picking up with CtC, but we are taking a year off (from MFW) for her. I still love MFW 1st grade for my boys, though :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beccad777 Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share Posted September 22, 2011 So, I'd try that, just because I hate to give up on stuff after only a few weeks. Entirely your call, of course, but I think I'd change HOW I do it before deciding not to do it at all. (Just curious - are the kids not enjoying it? Or are you the only one who's bored? I've found my kids have much more of a tolerance for the repetitive rhythm than I do - sometimes I'm like, really? Another flag sheet? But my kids are like, "Yay! Another flag sheet!" LOL) Peace, I am still deciding what to do, but maybe next week in Mexico will be better since it will be something other than the US. The kids are not liking it either. I am not the only one bored here. :tongue_smilie: I don't like to curriculum hop, but their eyes are glazing over when I read the science and geography for the most part. When there is an experiment they are more engaged. I really tried to like it. I wanted to love it so badly, but it is stressing me out more than I feel like it is teaching them. I am very torn right now. I really appreciate everyone's help and advice! :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beccad777 Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share Posted September 22, 2011 I guess I would recommend shelving it and doing Galloping the Globe with your 2nd grader. I did it with my oldest in 1st/2nd grade and she loved it. Dorinda My 4th grader did Galloping the Globe in coop last year and enjoyed it. She might like it as well. Thanks for the suggestion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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