forty-two Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 (I'm not looking to debate their validity ;) - I just want to get a clear understanding of what they *are*.) So, I'm Lutheran, and Reformed beliefs about baptism are both close and yet very different from ours, and for the life of me I can't make sense of it - everything I read seems to contradict each other. On the one hand, my understanding is that Reformed theology does not believe in baptismal regeneration. Yet Calvin certainly seems to say that baptism is doing *something*, something which to my Lutheran ears sounds a lot like forgiving sins and creating faith, but apparently isn't . From what I've got so far, in Reformed theology, infant baptism: *Makes the child part of the covenant *Is a sacrament, a means of grace *Is NOT a means by which God forgives sins and creates faith (i.e. no baptismal regeneration) Do I have that right? My questions: *What does it mean to be part of the covenant through baptism if it *doesn't* mean that God works through baptism to create saving faith? *What is God doing (if anything) through baptism? And, again, please, *please* don't turn this into a debate on the rightness/wrongness of Reformed beliefs - spin off another thread if you simply must go there ;). I'm only trying to figure out what they *are*, so I'd really appreciate it if we could keep discussion more or less on that :). Pretty please? :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 No input on the Reformed beliefs- but you sharked my school name! Hey! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttichen Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I am reformed, so I will try to answer you. We believe that baptism is a "sign and seal" of the covenant. Like circumcision in the Old Testament, it shows that the child belongs to the people of God. We do not believe in baptismal regeneration. Only God knows when regeneration occurs. We baptize our children in faith, trusting that God will work in them. The Heidelberg Catechism says God uses baptism "to teach us that the blood and Spirit of Christ wash away our sins just as the water washes away dirt from our bodies. But more important, he wants to assure us, by this divine pledge and sign, that the washing away of our sins spiritually is as real as the physical washing of water." Calling baptism "means of grace" means that we see the sacraments, along with the Word and prayer, as the means God uses to teach us about redemption. I hope that helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy in C-ville Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Some paedobaptists DO believe that baptism is regenerative. I've heard many of my Presbyterian friends say that they have their babies baptized, but do not believe in the things that they say during the baptismal ceremony. That's sad to me. I am reformed but not a paedobaptist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 (edited) So if the reformed baptize babies do they assume those babies are among the elect of God, or do they believe that it is an open question (but do it anyway)? Bill Edited September 19, 2011 by Spy Car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 So if the reformed baptize babies to they assume those babies are among the elect of God, or do they believe that it is an open question (but do it anyway)? Bill Goooood question. Thanks, Bill. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tntgoodwin Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I am a Calvinist, but am not a paedobaptist and do not believe baptism is regenerative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachaheart Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 So if the reformed baptize babies do they assume those babies are among the elect of God, or do they believe that it is an open question (but do it anyway)? Bill That's a really good question, Bill. Since I know that there are differences in belief among the Reformed, I'll try to answer from the perspective of my own denomination--the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, which is a rather conservative Reformed denomination. In the OPC, the basic teaching is that baptism, whether infant or adult, is a sign and seal of the covenant of grace. While it does not cause regeneration, it assures us of the promise of regeneration to all those whom God calls. We do not believe that the efficacy of baptism is limited to the time of the administration of this sacrament but that God regenerates the elect on his own timeline. Also, we believe that baptism is a means of grace, therefore a sacrament that ought not be neglected, but we do not think that regeneration cannot happen without it. As for infants, we baptize them because they are born into households of faith. Baptism marks their entrance into the visible church, and as part of the ceremony the parents and all the members of the congregation promise to raise each child in such a way that he will know God and what he does in salvation. We promise to pray for the child to come to a saving knowledge of Christ and make a credible profession of faith. What we can never do is presume election upon anyone, infant or adult. We believe God is faithful to his covenant, and our trust in his mercy and goodness give us hope that our children are among the elect, but we know that only God knows who are truly his. In our particular congregation, most parents do seem to operate on the assumption that their children are among the elect and raise them as Christians who will eventually take full ownership of their faith. To my knowledge, none of those who have grown up in this congregation and have entered into adulthood have walked away from the faith. I'm not sure if I have explained things well, and I imagine some of these points will raise more questions, but I hope this is somewhat helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tntgoodwin Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I have heard it explained as the equivalent of circumcision among the Jews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhomemaker25 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 We go to a Reformed church that does not believe in infant baptism. If your interested my Pastor recently had a friendly debate with a Presbyterian pastor friend of his on this very subject. I could send you the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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