Catholics using CLE

[AimeeM]

Before I place an order for CLE math, language arts, and reading - is there anything I need to be aware of in the content that would be adverse to Church teachings? Is it non existent, minimal, or will my attempts to steer away from it/explain it be a constant battle in the program?

[wapiti]

I think this has come up before, though perhaps I'm remembering wrong - try these threads

 

Do you think CLE Math can be used secularly? opinions please?

 

Note for Catholics who are considering/using CLE

[ElizaG]

Just wanted to add: A few months ago, I read on a Catholic homeschool board that someone has contacted CLE about the concerns regarding the 2nd grade social studies. They've said that they plan to rewrite some of this material for the upcoming edition. That's good to hear. :) I wish I could have contacted them myself before posting here, but I was pretty much overwhelmed with morning sickness and general spring burnout at the time.

 

Maybe someone who's active on the CLE Yahoo group (Tracy?) can provide some inside information.

 

ETA: For the subjects the OP mentioned, AFAIK math and language arts are fine, but some people have come across issues with the reading selections. From what I've seen with the first few readers, it's just a matter of a few areas where we differ in our beliefs and practices, or how we'd explain things -- not what I'd consider "anti-Catholicism" as in the SS. But I'm not familiar with the older grades.

 

(And just to clarify, I wasn't expecting the social studies to be free of issues. But there was a Protestant lady on the Yahoo group who kept saying that it was great for Catholics, and that she'd used it to teach her friend's Catholic children. I guess her definition of "great for Catholics" is different from mine. :001_huh: )

Edited September 18, 2011 by Eleanor

[AimeeM]

Unfortunately I have yet to find a Catholic publisher that produces equally rigorous language arts and math products, in the learning style that works best for my daughter - CLE seems to fit that bill.

I do, however, think that (after reading the threads you listed), I will skip their reading program.

Leaves me in a bit of a lurch, as the CLE light unit reading program looked far more thorough than anything I have found from a Catholic publisher. So far, the only thing I can find for Catholics is the Catholic National Reader that comes with a workbook... but it really can't be compared to the depth of CLE.

 

I think this has come up before, though perhaps I'm remembering wrong - try these threads

 

Do you think CLE Math can be used secularly? opinions please?

 

Note for Catholics who are considering/using CLE

[ElizaG]

Aimee, would you mind sharing your children's ages and what you're looking for in a reading program?

 

There are some smaller publishers and out-of-print books out there; maybe there's something that would fill your needs. Or maybe one of us can write one. ;)

[wapiti]

We are Catholic, but use secular materials, with the exceptions of Henle Latin and a Catholic history text. There are dozens of secular reading workbooks. What are you looking for in reading program - is this for your dyslexic dd?

[AimeeM]

Eleanor and Wapiti -

Autumn is dyslexic and 10; however, her reading and comprehension is great. It is her writing and spelling that suffer.

I am looking for a program that teaches inferences, how to summarize, pick topic sentences, identify main characters etc.

We own American Cardinal Reader 5 - but unfortunately it doesn't come with questions, a workbook, or anything of the sort.

[AimeeM]

We tend to use secular materials as well. CHOW for history, Mr. Q for science, etc. However, while Autumn reads great, she isn't fond of reading - so it would be great to incorporate religion into her reading so that it isn't a separate subject. Kill two birds with one stone :o)

We are Catholic, but use secular materials, with the exceptions of Henle Latin and a Catholic history text. There are dozens of secular reading workbooks. What are you looking for in reading program - is this for your dyslexic dd?

[wapiti]

Eleanor and Wapiti -

Autumn is dyslexic and 10; however, her reading and comprehension is great. It is her writing and spelling that suffer.

I am looking for a program that teaches inferences, how to summarize, pick topic sentences, identify main characters etc.

We own American Cardinal Reader 5 - but unfortunately it doesn't come with questions, a workbook, or anything of the sort.

 

For how to summarize and pick topic sentences, have you considered WWE/WWS? There are a number of reading workbooks that involve summarizing - later I'll take a look. For inferences, we use a workbook. Identifying main characters - I don't know about that one; that sounds more along the lines of literary analysis, but discussion about any book she happens to be reading ought to help.

[AimeeM]

We do have WWE4 (or, rather, I ordered it and will have it). I believe that WWS includes Literary Analysis - so perhaps I just shouldn't worry about reading as a "subject" right now :o) Lol

For how to summarize and pick topic sentences, have you considered WWE/WWS? There are a number of reading workbooks that involve summarizing - later I'll take a look. For inferences, we use a workbook. Identifying main characters - I don't know about that one; that sounds more along the lines of literary analysis, but discussion about any book she happens to be reading ought to help.

[TracyR]

Hi all, we are Catholic and use CLE :>)

So far I have used many levels of CLE for reading, math and La and have NOT found anything contrary to the faith yet. As many here I have yet to find a Catholic curriculum that matches CLE's style, and this is what works for my children. So I'm not switching unless someone comes out with a Catholic curriuclum like CLE.

I also haven't seen a reading program better than CLE's from Catholic publishers either. This year my oldest is doing the Stories of the Saints from Catholic Heritage. Granted, the book itself is good, and the stories are wonderfully written. It does include some activities, vocab and comprehension questions about the stories. But that's pretty much were it ends. Its what I call reading 'lite'. I'd much rather her be using CLE for reading right now but she wanted to try something different.

So far I've used for reading with CLE : Learn to Read 100 , 200,and 500 and have not found anything objectionable with the stories yet. They've been good stories that teach very good moral lessons.

 

Now as far as the science we use Apologia as we believe in a young earth ( our preference), and history, no.

What we do need to realize is that Christian Light IS from a Mennonite company and they are going to put their religious belief in their history. Just as other Protestant curriculums like Abeka and Bob Jones would.

Was the Catholic church perfect all of the time? No. We need to know that and understand that. There were definitely times in history when the Catholic church was less than stellar. As well as the Protestant faith too. But we don't use CLE's history because we are not Mennonite. I'm actually in the process of looking for a good Catholic history book at the moment.

 

I hope that answers your question about the curriculum. Yes, you can be Catholic and use CLE. Reading, Math , LA are what I consider (safe) subjects. You aren't going to get the teachings of the Catholic church in CLE though like if you used Seton or Catholic Heritage.

 

I say give it a try , see for yourself because we all here have our own opinion as to what we feel is acceptable and what is not. Everyone has their own opinion of the curriculum and really its best to form your own. But I feel it is very acceptable to use for a Catholic family. Its MUCH, MUCH more than what they would get if they were in a Catholic school. I know the one we have here uses all non Christian materials. The only class they hear about God is in religious ed.

 

But as for Reading, LA and Math there is nothing wrong with these subjects. They can definitely be used by someone of the Catholic faith and they do not ( so far to my knowledge) teach anything contrary to the Catholic faith.

[AimeeM]

I'm not afraid of Autumn learning about dark times. Lol - we are in the medieval period of history right now, and I'm certain that she will learn some dark times of The Church; however, it does need to be balanced. If all she hears are the bad times, and none of the good, I take issue with that.

As for history... if you are looking for Catholic history programs... have you looked into the Catholic Textbook Project? Their texts are supposed to be wonderful. We take a secular approach to history and we are old earth (theistic evolution) in science - but I have heard good things about CTP from the Catholic co-op I belong to.

If WWE4 does indeed teach summarizing, and WWS (I know) teaches literary analysis, then I may just not need CLE reading (or any reading program).

Thanks for your input. I am going to order thier LA and math. I have yet to find ANYTHING that compares.

Hi all, we are Catholic and use CLE :>)

So far I have used many levels of CLE for reading, math and La and have NOT found anything contrary to the faith yet. As many here I have yet to find a Catholic curriculum that matches CLE's style, and this is what works for my children. So I'm not switching unless someone comes out with a Catholic curriuclum like CLE.

I also haven't seen a reading program better than CLE's from Catholic publishers either. This year my oldest is doing the Stories of the Saints from Catholic Heritage. Granted, the book itself is good, and the stories are wonderfully written. It does include some activities, vocab and comprehension questions about the stories. But that's pretty much were it ends. Its what I call reading 'lite'. I'd much rather her be using CLE for reading right now but she wanted to try something different.

So far I've used for reading with CLE : Learn to Read 100 , 200,and 500 and have not found anything objectionable with the stories yet. They've been good stories that teach very good moral lessons.

 

Now as far as the science we use Apologia as we believe in a young earth ( our preference), and history, no.

What we do need to realize is that Christian Light IS from a Mennonite company and they are going to put their religious belief in their history. Just as other Protestant curriculums like Abeka and Bob Jones would.

Was the Catholic church perfect all of the time? No. We need to know that and understand that. There were definitely times in history when the Catholic church was less than stellar. As well as the Protestant faith too. But we don't use CLE's history because we are not Mennonite. I'm actually in the process of looking for a good Catholic history book at the moment.

 

I hope that answers your question about the curriculum. Yes, you can be Catholic and use CLE. Reading, Math , LA are what I consider (safe) subjects. You aren't going to get the teachings of the Catholic church in CLE though like if you used Seton or Catholic Heritage.

 

I say give it a try , see for yourself because we all here have our own opinion as to what we feel is acceptable and what is not. Everyone has their own opinion of the curriculum and really its best to form your own. But I feel it is very acceptable to use for a Catholic family. Its MUCH, MUCH more than what they would get if they were in a Catholic school. I know the one we have here uses all non Christian materials. The only class they hear about God is in religious ed.

 

But as for Reading, LA and Math there is nothing wrong with these subjects. They can definitely be used by someone of the Catholic faith and they do not ( so far to my knowledge) teach anything contrary to the Catholic faith.

[ElizaG]

However, while Autumn reads great, she isn't fond of reading - so it would be great to incorporate religion into her reading so that it isn't a separate subject. Kill two birds with one stone :o)

You might look at Seton's reading workbooks, e.g.:

Seton 4 Reading: Comprehension

Seton 4 Reading: Thinking Skills

 

Unlike the Faith & Freedom readers, which have a mix of Catholic and secular content, these are pretty much 100% religious stories. They could be used as a supplement to any non-Catholic reading program.

 

(FWIW, I would personally be inclined to use these to supplement CLE Reading, if we were using it. Many of the CLE stories are more "values based" than explicitly Christian, and of course there aren't any that relate to the Eucharist, the Blessed Mother, saints, Church history, etc. But it really depends on how much religious instruction is integrated into your other subjects, such as history.)

[AimeeM]

So far the only religious instruction is from Credo: I Believe (Faith and Life series), Father Brown Mystery Reader, Catholic Stories for Boys and Girls (also good moral lessons). I'm wondering if actually that would be enough...

With that said, have you used Seton's reading materials? Most complain that Seton is "dry" - and with a reluctant reader, "dry" is no-go. Lol. I have used Seton's art and spelling. Not much a fan.

 

You might look at Seton's reading workbooks, e.g.:

Seton 4 Reading: Comprehension

Seton 4 Reading: Thinking Skills

 

Unlike the Faith & Freedom readers, which have a mix of Catholic and secular content, these are pretty much 100% religious stories. They could be used as a supplement to any non-Catholic reading program.

 

(FWIW, I would personally be inclined to use these to supplement CLE Reading, if we were using it. Many of the CLE stories are more "values based" than explicitly Christian, and of course there aren't any that relate to the Eucharist, the Blessed Mother, saints, Church history, etc. But it really depends on how much religious instruction is integrated into your other subjects, such as history.)

[wapiti]

if you are looking for Catholic history programs... have you looked into the Catholic Textbook Project? Their texts are supposed to be wonderful.

:iagree: We are using the American history book this year (From Sea to Shining Sea) and it's very nicely done. We also use the TM and workbook. My only gripe is that it doesn't go as far as I'd like chronologically, though we will finish it well before the end of the year and add something else.

[TracyR]

Yes, I've been looking into the Catholic Textbook Project books. Catholic Heritage sells them. I'll have to give it a try and see how it goes. It is pricey though.

[wapiti]

. 

 

Edited April 20, 2015 by wapiti

[ElizaG]

So far the only religious instruction is from Credo: I Believe (Faith and Life series), Father Brown Mystery Reader, Catholic Stories for Boys and Girls (also good moral lessons). I'm wondering if actually that would be enough...

The Church is pretty clear that educators should incorporate our faith throughout the curriculum, especially in literature, history, and cultural geography. It's possible to do this yourself as you go along, but my feeling is that parents who haven't received a very solid and thorough Catholic education themselves (i.e., nearly all of us) would do well to use at least some explicitly Catholic materials, especially in the areas where our own knowledge and understanding are weakest. When I preview books I'm considering using with our children -- whether old parochial school textbooks, or newer ones like the CSTP -- I realize how much I have to learn myself.

 

If your children are reading Father Brown and Catholic Stories for Boys and Girls, then you're already doing this for literature. Is it enough? Again, I think this would depend on what you're doing in other subject areas. This is a benefit of teaching reading with something like CNR or Faith & Freedom. They have many stories relating to Catholic history and culture around the world, so the children are going to get that perspective, albeit not in any particular sequence. (Speaking of which, one of my "when-I-get-around-to-it" project ideas is to make an index of history and geography topics in stories from these readers. It seems as if most families have some of them on hand. We might as well make good use of them, rather than letting them sit on the shelf while we search for suitable picture books for each time or place.)

 

With that said, have you used Seton's reading materials? Most complain that Seton is "dry" - and with a reluctant reader, "dry" is no-go. Lol. I have used Seton's art and spelling. Not much a fan.

Our children like the stories in the reading workbooks, but they're not reluctant readers. Why not look at the sample pages and see how you like them? I'm not sure if they'll print or not, but you could always read them off the screen.

 

I've found that people say all kinds of things about Seton that aren't always justified. All my friends who use it have moments of wanting to throw it across the room. ;) Most of us have quit and come back to it at some point. If you do use their materials, you have to make them your own: adjust the workload, combine children for certain subjects, make up games for review, etc. Seton's philosophy is that homeschooling success is more about teaching a given curriculum in a way that suits the child's needs, than about finding the "perfect" materials that can be used in their entirety straight out of the box. I think they're right, and there have been several recent threads here from veteran homeschoolers saying the same thing. (But that doesn't stop me from fantasizing. :D)

[AimeeM]

Eh. I may disagree with you a bit on that one. Autumn has previously been in very traditional Catholic schools - and while they learned about Saints and church history; the science and history TEXTS were very secular, as were many literature assignments. The same when my husband was in Catholic school many years ago in Philadelphia.

The Church is pretty clear that educators should incorporate our faith throughout the curriculum, especially in literature, history, and cultural geography. It's possible to do this yourself as you go along, but my feeling is that parents who haven't received a very solid and thorough Catholic education themselves (i.e., nearly all of us) would do well to use at least some explicitly Catholic materials, especially in the areas where our own knowledge and understanding are weakest. When I preview books I'm considering using with our children -- whether old parochial school textbooks, or newer ones like the CSTP -- I realize how much I have to learn myself.

 

If your children are reading Father Brown and Catholic Stories for Boys and Girls, then you're already doing this for literature. Is it enough? Again, I think this would depend on what you're doing in other subject areas. This is a benefit of teaching reading with something like CNR or Faith & Freedom. They have many stories relating to Catholic history and culture around the world, so the children are going to get that perspective, albeit not in any particular sequence. (Speaking of which, one of my "when-I-get-around-to-it" project ideas is to make an index of history and geography topics in stories from these readers. It seems as if most families have some of them on hand. We might as well make good use of them, rather than letting them sit on the shelf while we search for suitable picture books for each time or place.)

 

Our children like the stories in the reading workbooks, but they're not reluctant readers. Why not look at the sample pages and see how you like them? I'm not sure if they'll print or not, but you could always read them off the screen.

 

I've found that people say all kinds of things about Seton that aren't always justified. All my friends who use it have moments of wanting to throw it across the room. ;) Most of us have quit and come back to it at some point. If you do use their materials, you have to make them your own: adjust the workload, combine children for certain subjects, make up games for review, etc. Seton's philosophy is that homeschooling success is more about teaching a given curriculum in a way that suits the child's needs, than about finding the "perfect" materials that can be used in their entirety straight out of the box. I think they're right, and there have been several recent threads here from veteran homeschoolers saying the same thing. (But that doesn't stop me from fantasizing. :D)

[TracyR]

Yeah, the only Catholic text my daughters use at their Catholic school is religious ed. That's it. The reading, LA, Math, Science and History are all secular materials. Not any of the materials incorporate faith in them, and really compared to some of the other homeschool materials for religious education are better than what my daughters had for religious ed at the school.

 

So I believe anything Christian or Catholic in nature is about 1,000 times more than what your child would get in a Catholic school today.

[ElizaG]

Eh. I may disagree with you a bit on that one. Autumn has previously been in very traditional Catholic schools - and while they learned about Saints and church history; the science and history TEXTS were very secular, as were many literature assignments. The same when my husband was in Catholic school many years ago in Philadelphia.

I don't doubt that the texts were secular. There aren't any up-to-date Catholic school textbooks available in most subject areas. (Hence the need for the Catholic Schools Textbook Project, or CSTP. They're unusual in that their books aren't primarily intended to meet the needs of homeschoolers.) And as far as I can tell, that's been the case throughout most of history, at least in countries where Catholics were and are the minority. The history and geography series that were published in the US between the 1940's and 1960's were considered to be a major achievement.

 

But textbooks aren't the whole of an education. No matter what the limitations of the printed materials, Catholic teachers are supposed to discuss our faith and relate it to the curriculum. Whether or not they do that is the question. Around here, some teachers certainly do, especially at the more "traditional" schools. It sounds as if the ones in Tracy's area don't, which is a shame.

[Ellie]

They're unusual in that their books aren't primarily intended to meet the needs of homeschoolers.

But most school textbook publishers (ABeka, BJUP, CLE, R&S, ACE, et al) don't intend to meet the needs of homeschoolers (although ABeka and the others have figured out that homeschoolers are a good source of income and so they accomodate us by writing manuals for homeschoolers or making their materials easier to acquire).

[ElizaG]

But most school textbook publishers (ABeka, BJUP, CLE, R&S, ACE, et al) don't intend to meet the needs of homeschoolers (although ABeka and the others have figured out that homeschoolers are a good source of income and so they accomodate us by writing manuals for homeschoolers or making their materials easier to acquire).

Sorry for not being clear. I meant to say that that makes the CSTP unusual among publishers of Catholic curriculum. The Protestant situation is quite different.

 

There are some Catholic publishers such as Sadlier and Loyola that sell primarily to schools (and secondarily to homeschoolers), but they've "secularized" their textbook departments in recent decades. Our local parochial schools still tend to buy materials from them, though. Same goes for MCP, which started out Catholic, with religious readers to go along with Plaid Phonics, but is now a secular imprint of Pearson. I'm guessing the schools have stuck with them partly out of loyalty, and partly because their materials are still quite solid and reasonably priced.

 

From the article CSTP posted on the front page of their site, it looks as if there's a significant demand for their books in Catholic schools. This is a good thing for all of us. I hope they'll be able to keep producing the series all the way down to the elementary grades.

[Ambrosia]

Hi all, we are Catholic and use CLE :>)

So far I have used many levels of CLE for reading, math and La and have NOT found anything contrary to the faith yet. As many here I have yet to find a Catholic curriculum that matches CLE's style, and this is what works for my children. So I'm not switching unless someone comes out with a Catholic curriuclum like CLE.

I also haven't seen a reading program better than CLE's from Catholic publishers either. This year my oldest is doing the Stories of the Saints from Catholic Heritage. Granted, the book itself is good, and the stories are wonderfully written. It does include some activities, vocab and comprehension questions about the stories. But that's pretty much were it ends. Its what I call reading 'lite'. I'd much rather her be using CLE for reading right now but she wanted to try something different.

So far I've used for reading with CLE : Learn to Read 100 , 200,and 500 and have not found anything objectionable with the stories yet. They've been good stories that teach very good moral lessons.

 

Now as far as the science we use Apologia as we believe in a young earth ( our preference), and history, no.

What we do need to realize is that Christian Light IS from a Mennonite company and they are going to put their religious belief in their history. Just as other Protestant curriculums like Abeka and Bob Jones would.

Was the Catholic church perfect all of the time? No. We need to know that and understand that. There were definitely times in history when the Catholic church was less than stellar. As well as the Protestant faith too. But we don't use CLE's history because we are not Mennonite. I'm actually in the process of looking for a good Catholic history book at the moment.

 

I hope that answers your question about the curriculum. Yes, you can be Catholic and use CLE. Reading, Math , LA are what I consider (safe) subjects. You aren't going to get the teachings of the Catholic church in CLE though like if you used Seton or Catholic Heritage.

 

I say give it a try , see for yourself because we all here have our own opinion as to what we feel is acceptable and what is not. Everyone has their own opinion of the curriculum and really its best to form your own. But I feel it is very acceptable to use for a Catholic family. Its MUCH, MUCH more than what they would get if they were in a Catholic school. I know the one we have here uses all non Christian materials. The only class they hear about God is in religious ed.

 

But as for Reading, LA and Math there is nothing wrong with these subjects. They can definitely be used by someone of the Catholic faith and they do not ( so far to my knowledge) teach anything contrary to the Catholic faith.

[Ambrosia]

Hello TracyR, do you still use CLE LA? Or Seton english?

[Mama2two]

This is an old thread and the links in the second posts are not working.  I was wondering if someone could clue me in on any anti-Catholic material?  We have been using Seton English, but the CLE Language arts seems like it covers more and in more detail.  But don't want to buy if anything anti-Catholic

[Syllieann]

I think this link should work for the "note for catholics..."

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/254581-note-for-catholics-who-are-usingconsidering-cle/

[AimeeM]

This is an old thread and the links in the second posts are not working.  I was wondering if someone could clue me in on any anti-Catholic material?  We have been using Seton English, but the CLE Language arts seems like it covers more and in more detail.  But don't want to buy if anything anti-Catholic

I started the thread, and I just wanted to update and say that I use the CLE math and the LA... but the LA really does NOT cover more than VIE (which is what Seton's English is based on); the main difference, and why we prefer CLE LA - at least for a few years - is that I do feel it *does* diagramming better, and I feel like the spiral/review aspect is second to none.

I haven't yet found anything contrary to church teaching in the language arts or the math.

We decided "better safe than sorry" regarding the reading program - we decided not to use it.

 

I do NOT feel like CLE does writing well, and I don't care for their spelling - we only use the grammar content in their LA.

[Mama2two]

Thank you!

[HomeschoolingHearts&Minds]

This is the thread that the other thread linked above links to:  http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/249644-alternative-to-cle-reading/  It gives some examples.