Two specific ADD/ADHD questions

[LittleIzumi]

Hi!

 

So. I know a bit about ADD now but I have two questions.

 

1) Has anyone had an ADHD kid who did not improve with caffeine? The Sponge had the caffeine test (half a Red Bull) & showed a remarkable difference, and I am fairly sure she is ADD like her daddy. However, The Drama displays many ADHD behaviors, and I am terrified of what she would be like on caffeine for any amount of time if it's just her personality and not ADHD, lol. Very, very terrified. That is the main reason I haven't tried it yet with her. Eeeek. Does it always work on ADHD kids? (She's my avatar, even though it's a year old. Look into her eyes & see her mentally telling you she can destroy your entire house before you can turn around, LOL.)

 

2) I want to cut out gluten & dairy to see if it helps the ADD/ADHD factor floating around our entire house. However, replacing cow milk with almond milk destroys the food routine, and The Drama FLIPS. OUT. She was sobbing for at least half an hour last night because I dared to put almond milk in her Kix. She continued to freak out after I added cow milk--basically the entire bowl was now tainted from the almond milk & she would rather sob & starve than eat it. :glare: Any tips? I can't see how eliminating dairy will help if she flips out at the routine change (she is a dairy addict). I can do the gluten change if I get rice pasta, but dairy....

Edited July 10, 2011 by LittleIzumi

[wapiti]

So with you on the dairy. I wanted to try going without dairy (for reasons other than adhd) but it's a major source of protein around here, for several of my picky eaters. And almond milk is out due to the nut issue.

 

If protein quantity is not an issue, try coconut milk (the So Delicious brand - even our Supertarget has it now). I like it a lot in cereal - in fact I prefer it to regular milk. If you could somehow trick her into trying it (e.g., in a glass), she might like it.

[elise1mds]

Could you wash out a traditional milk carton and replace it with the almond or coconut milk? Obviously if she can pick the flavor difference, that wouldn't work, but I thought I'd ask. I've only ever cooked with those milks, so I don't know how they taste when drunk plain.

 

I do have to say my ADHD son responds favorably to caffeine, so I'm no help there. He has opposite reactions to other things, too, like Benadryl. It makes him hyper instead of sleepy.

[5knights3maidens]

Just a thought. My dd is adhd/pdd. She has a dairy allergy. Before we knew this she was spinning, ripping wallpaper off the walls, and just plain all over the place, literally. We took her off dairy for 3 weeks and then put her back on. Within less than 1 hour she was screaming, angry, kicking, etc.

So what I'm trying to say is, it may be worth your while in trying the dairy elimination diet with her. Let her sob for the dairy, it will stop (you're the boss). It may be good for her sanity and yours.

;)

[saja1029]

Caffeine does NOT seem to do anything for my ds12 with ADHD. But, we've only tried soda, as he refuses to try coffee or tea:(

[LittleIzumi]

Could you wash out a traditional milk carton and replace it with the almond or coconut milk? Obviously if she can pick the flavor difference, that wouldn't work, but I thought I'd ask. I've only ever cooked with those milks, so I don't know how they taste when drunk plain.

 

I do have to say my ADHD son responds favorably to caffeine, so I'm no help there. He has opposite reactions to other things, too, like Benadryl. It makes him hyper instead of sleepy.

 

BRILLIANT. She could smell the almond milk anyway but that might work if I get some coconut milk. Hooray!

[LittleIzumi]

Just a thought. My dd is adhd/pdd. She has a dairy allergy. Before we knew this she was spinning, ripping wallpaper off the walls, and just plain all over the place, literally. We took her off dairy for 3 weeks and then put her back on. Within less than 1 hour she was screaming, angry, kicking, etc.

So what I'm trying to say is, it may be worth your while in trying the dairy elimination diet with her. Let her sob for the dairy, it will stop (you're the boss). It may be good for her sanity and yours.

;)

 

Her flipout was after a cheese binge. :glare: And I was planning on being a hardnose to start the dairy-free time but dh was here & he was in a softy mood.

[Misty]

My kids like Pacific Brand rice milk. I also use So Delicious coconut milk for some things. But honestly, I would skip milk substitutes until she has gotten over the "addiction". Nothing will taste good to her until she has lost her taste memory for the milk. My 8yr old daughter was completely addicted to both dairy and gluten before we went free of those. She was a raging, screaming, destructive child who was literally all over the place. She was diagnosed with ADHD-combined type and Asperger's. Now, after being gluten and dairy free for nearly two years, she just has attention issues.. The hyperactivity is nearly gone. But if she gets gluten, dear Lord, watch out.. she becomes a raging, screaming, destructive nightmare again.

 

Be firm and don't give in. My kids thought they were going to die in the beginning. They thought they couldn't possibly survive without milk and gluten. Now, they don't think anything of it. It's our new normal. They don't miss the old foods at all (well, maybe a little, but I don't hear about it daily anymore).

[WishboneDawn]

Hi!

 

So. I know a bit about ADD now but I have two questions.

 

1) Has anyone had an ADHD kid who did not improve with caffeine? The Sponge had the caffeine test (half a Red Bull) & showed a remarkable difference, and I am fairly sure she is ADD like her daddy. However, The Drama displays many ADHD behaviors, and I am terrified of what she would be like on caffeine for any amount of time if it's just her personality and not ADHD, lol. Very, very terrified. That is the main reason I haven't tried it yet with her. Eeeek. Does it always work on ADHD kids? (She's my avatar, even though it's a year old. Look into her eyes & see her mentally telling you she can destroy your entire house before you can turn around, LOL.)

 

I've got ADD and can't do coffee. More then a couple of cups sends my heart racing and a cup tends to give me a very modest boost and then I'm off for a nap. I do much better with my low dose of ritalin. It doesn't have the side effects and the dose is the same every time.

 

So no, it doesn't always work.

[LittleIzumi]

My kids like Pacific Brand rice milk. I also use So Delicious coconut milk for some things. But honestly, I would skip milk substitutes until she has gotten over the "addiction". Nothing will taste good to her until she has lost her taste memory for the milk. My 8yr old daughter was completely addicted to both dairy and gluten before we went free of those. She was a raging, screaming, destructive child who was literally all over the place. She was diagnosed with ADHD-combined type and Asperger's. Now, after being gluten and dairy free for nearly two years, she just has attention issues.. The hyperactivity is nearly gone. But if she gets gluten, dear Lord, watch out.. she becomes a raging, screaming, destructive nightmare again.

 

Be firm and don't give in. My kids thought they were going to die in the beginning. They thought they couldn't possibly survive without milk and gluten. Now, they don't think anything of it. It's our new normal. They don't miss the old foods at all (well, maybe a little, but I don't hear about it daily anymore).

 

Yep. :glare: My oldest can't have dairy anyway so she's fine. But The Drama.... If I'm not back here in a couple of days, she's killed me for taking away her dairy :lol:. I am definitely going to have to fill the milk gallon with coconut or rice milk, as she's been sneaking cow milk from the jug today. :glare:

[Misty]

I am definitely going to have to fill the milk gallon with coconut or rice milk, as she's been sneaking cow milk from the jug today. :glare:

 

And this will continue if you don't remove dairy from the house completely. Another option is to put a bicycle lock on the fridge if you have a side-by-side. But I would remove it completely to eliminate temptations and tantrums (and sneaking).

 

In my opinion, most cow milk is not fit for human consumption in this day and age anyway. Here's a little video for further explanation..

[WeeBeaks]

1. Our psychiatrist at least says no, not everyone responds, but most do to some form of a stimulant. The trick is finding the right one where the positive effects are good enough to tolerate any negative effects. Our son absolutely did not respond much at all to caffeine in sodas. But he absolutely responds well to a stimulant medication.

 

2. I personally did not have much in the way of improvement on elimination diet when we tried it. However, I have heard some mention that the thing you crave the most may in fact be the culprit in issues going on (behavioral especially). So the intense craving for dairy may be a clear indicator dairy is a problem in her behavior.

 

Best of luck there. Despite our not having much in the way of results on dairy free, we still really really limit dairy here as I feel too much of anything is probably not great. Coconut milk we found the closest in consistency to regular milk, with soy and rice being runnier. One of my kids also likes hemp milk, which is watery still but has omega-3s in higher quantities than the rice milk we usually use. I personally like the coconut best for taste plain and cooking.

[Orthodox6]

Wow. My eyes are bugging out at the suggestions to serve caffeine. I have ADHD/ADD-Supremo strength, among several other medical conditions, including a 38-year run of the inability to sleep naturally. Caffeine is baaaaaaad news for me and for my two ADHD/ADD children.

 

As for other dietary components, our experience has been that there is no diet which inherently (the operative word) affects ADHD/ADD conditions one way or the other. Such efforts are very "individual body-specific" reactions, just as are reactions to medications and/or "natural" substances. Which applies to my previous paragraph, too ! All that one can do is try different options and see if one helps. I cannot justifiably extrapolate for other people based on whether something works for me, or whether it does not work for me.

Edited July 11, 2011 by Orthodox6

[littleWMN]

I've got one with ADD (technically there is n such diagnosis anymore, it is now ADHD -inattentive type) and one with raging ADHD (combined type).

 

My dd with ADD does not seem to respond much to caffeine either way. We tried stimulants and couldn't take the side effects. She's 10 and homeschooled so we just deal with it. We've not tried any dietary changes with her, though when she was younger and more hyper, we definitely tried to avoid red dye.

 

DD5 is the one that is highly ADHD. She's on Concerta, which helps a lot. We've not tried soda, as sugar makes her bounce off the walls. We eliminated gluten a month ago and that has helped as well (in addition to ADHD, she's mildly MR).

 

We also did amino acid/neurotransmitter testing for both of them. DD5 has started supplements already and it's made a huge, huge difference for us. DD10 will start supplements soon so we have yet to see if it will help her.

[Misty]

I have heard some mention that the thing you crave the most may in fact be the culprit in issues going on (behavioral especially). So the intense craving for dairy may be a clear indicator dairy is a problem in her behavior.

 

:iagree:

[Sushi's Mom]

You could try dark chocolate.My daughter's psychologist told me to give her 70% or higher dark chocolate, several times a day. It needs to be given consistently and can take up to a week to see a difference, but after it builds up in the body, can make a difference in some people.

 

Dark chocolate, Ritalin, and Adderall all have something called*phenylethylamine (PEA).

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/43208/chocolate_a_cure_for_adhd.html

 

I tried this on myself, as I was also recently diagnosed with ADHD and I do notice a difference. I mainly notice when it is wearing off; I start to feel my mind racing again and like I want to run around, and I talk faster. For me it wears off at about the 2 hour mark. The doctor said it usually lasts about 2-3 hours, depending on the person.

 

I read about some kind of cookie that is being developed to give to kids with ADHD.

 

I also read, somewhere, that European chocolate has more of the 'good-for-you stuff' than American chocolate. I have been buying chocolate at Aldi, the Moser Roth brand. They have 70% and 85%. It is not too expensive and comes from Europe. I also like that it is individually wrapped servings that I can keep in my purse.

[rafiki]

.

[LittleIzumi]

Wee tiny update: I did the caffeine test on both girls, and the older did a lot of schoolwork (like last time) and The Drama was still just The Drama, lol. Definitely no improvement in focus or attention. Sigh. She is now amenable to Rice Dream though, and asks for that in her GF cereal and in a cup with a straw :tongue_smilie:. She kept swiping cow milk though so I dumped out the jug. It would help if dh could eat dairy-free and gluten-free too, but you should see his face when I mention it :lol: so there is still stuff for him in the house. I think he would run away if I totally pitched them. Or cry. (Stressful week at school anyway, for him.)

[homeschooler2003]

Hi I just joined the group and thought I would give a tiny suggestion for the milk thing.

 

After my parents got married, My dad refused to give up whole milk, would have a fit since the skim did not taste the same!

 

My mom liked the skim better and did not want to have to buy 2 different milks.

 

So, she diluted the whole milk. Just a little at a time until eventually it was ALL skim in the whole milk bottle. After a period of time she came clean and told him he had been drinking skim milk for ___ months now and did not complain.

 

Now my dad does the grocery shopping and buys skim milk!

 

You might try 90/10 then 80/20 then 70/30 (this should take a while, DRAMA will notice a small difference at 70/30 so do this step slowly) and so on...

[Misty]

She is now amenable to Rice Dream though, and asks for that in her GF cereal and in a cup with a straw :tongue_smilie:.

 

Some moms who are very experienced with this GFCF stuff will tell you that Rice Dream has gluten in it.. Even though it says gluten free.. This is because they use barley when they make it, but then remove the barely so it is not in the final packaged product.. so they can claim GF because their levels don't go over the legal limit for a product to claim GF. But they do have trace amounts. We have never tried Rice Dream so I cannot speak from experience..And I have never researched this myself. This is just what they say (quite adamantly) on some GFCF on-line forums. Just thought I'd let you know so you can do the research for yourself and decide. It could be a good transitional milk for her if nothing else.

 

And it could take some time to get your husband on board, but he really needs to try to go GFCF (at least in the house) while your girls are making this transition. Having those foods in the house is much too tempting and difficult for the girls to see every day and know they can't have them. Going GFCF won't kill him. He wouldn't smoke in the house if you were trying to quit smoking, would he? It's the same thing.. It's difficult for these kids to give up these foods. They need support and if he is keeping foods in the house, that is not very supportive.

[Woodsia]

Just a thought - artificial food colourings and flavourings make my youngest daughter craaaaaaazy. I haven't read the ingredient list for Redbull, but I assume it would have quite a bit of each.

 

There was an article from the Lancet posted here a while back that showed many kids with ADHD-type issues respond well when additives are removed from their diet. If that's the case for your girl, then the colours and whatnot in RedBull might negate any potentially positive effects from the caffeine. I like the dark chocolate idea, or maybe try a bit of green tea with some honey? There's just so much stuff in RedBull besides caffeine that it would be really hard to tell which ingredients are affecting her.

[LittleIzumi]

Just a thought - artificial food colourings and flavourings make my youngest daughter craaaaaaazy. I haven't read the ingredient list for Redbull, but I assume it would have quite a bit of each.

 

There was an article from the Lancet posted here a while back that showed many kids with ADHD-type issues respond well when additives are removed from their diet. If that's the case for your girl, then the colours and whatnot in RedBull might negate any potentially positive effects from the caffeine. I like the dark chocolate idea, or maybe try a bit of green tea with some honey? There's just so much stuff in RedBull besides caffeine that it would be really hard to tell which ingredients are affecting her.

 

The Drama is already red 40 free, as that does make her crazy. I did the new caffeine test with a 1/4 of a caffeine pill to eliminate the sugar/additive influence. I do want to take her off the other dyes. I wish they weren't in everything. :glare: The Lancet study also discussed food intolerances/allergies being a factor in ADHD, so we'll see if this pans out....

[Woodsia]

Oh, I hear you there. I have no problem avoiding things like Kool-Aid or Cheetos, but when you have to watch out for things like toothpaste and vitamins it gets a little irritating.

 

We're thinking of looking into a food allergy elimination diet too, but it just seemed easier to take out the additives before things like wheat or dairy. Sorry if I was posting the obvious to you - it's just made such a huge difference in dd's life lately that I'm on a bit of a crusade, lol.

[Finnella]

And it could take some time to get your husband on board, but he really needs to try to go GFCF (at least in the house) while your girls are making this transition. Having those foods in the house is much too tempting and difficult for the girls to see every day and know they can't have them. Going GFCF won't kill him. He wouldn't smoke in the house if you were trying to quit smoking, would he? It's the same thing.. It's difficult for these kids to give up these foods. They need support and if he is keeping foods in the house, that is not very supportive.

 

:iagree:

I talked and talked until my husband agreed to the entire house being sugar free. It helped us a great deal.

[Dobela]

There is a significant flavor difference in white cow milk to white soy/almod/rice/goat/whatever milk. And then between brands of each of those types of milk there is a difference in flavor. Vanilla Silk Soy Milk tastes very different than Vanilla soy milk made by 8th continent, store brands, and so on. Vanilla is IMO great for cereal but plain or unsweetened is best for cooking. The easiest transition to other milks have seen is to begin with the flavored such as chocolate. Find a brand or type you like best in chocolate and just use chocolate for awhile. Once that is acceptable, and a long break from the flavor of cow milk has happened, then begin reintroducing the 'white'.

[HSMother]

Caffeine does make a difference for my adhd son. We tried eliminating dairy when he was much younger and didn't see difference at all. But now that you mention it, lately I've been thinking he's showing signs of lactose intolerance. Maybe we should try again....

 

Michelle

[Misty]

Caffeine does make a difference for my adhd son. We tried eliminating dairy when he was much younger and didn't see difference at all. But now that you mention it, lately I've been thinking he's showing signs of lactose intolerance. Maybe we should try again....

 

You might try eliminating gluten instead (or also).. gluten intolerance actually causes lactose intolerance.. So it could be that gluten is his main culprit.

[HSMother]

You might try eliminating gluten instead (or also).. gluten intolerance actually causes lactose intolerance.. So it could be that gluten is his main culprit.

 

Ah, the gluten/lactose connection is news to me. I will look into that - thanks! The trouble is this kids LIVES on all things gluten. And I suppose that makes the possibility that it affects him poorly even more likely...

 

Michelle

[Misty]

The trouble is this kids LIVES on all things gluten. And I suppose that makes the possibility that it affects him poorly even more likely...

 

Yup! That's a big red flag. Good luck and let us know what happens if you do decide to do a gluten-free trial.

 

Here's my usual gluten-is-bad info link.. http://drhyman.com/gluten-what-you-dont-know-might-kill-you-11/

[HSMother]

Good luck and let us know what happens if you do decide to do a gluten-free trial.

 

I would like to make the whole household gluten free if I thought I could do it without increasing the grocery budget. (There are 8 of us so we're spending a huge amount on groceries as it is.) Is that possible?

 

Michelle

[Misty]

I would like to make the whole household gluten free if I thought I could do it without increasing the grocery budget. (There are 8 of us so we're spending a huge amount on groceries as it is.) Is that possible?

 

I won't lie.. Your grocery bill will go up. But you might find that your medical bills go down. I used to suffer with migraines, chronic fatigue, muscle and joint pain, skin rashes.. I was on meds for severe anxiety and panic disorder so I had to go in every so often to have that prescription renewed. Since going gluten free, I haven't been to the doctor AT ALL. I am no longer on medication, no longer suffer from migraines, no longer have neck/shoulder pain, muscle and joint pain. No longer have anxiety AT ALL. My kids don't go to the doctor either.. One of them had headaches all the time, she ended up with a kidney stone (caused by celiac), we were going to therapy for OCD, ADHD, Asperger's, learning disabilities, auditory processing, etc.. We are currently therapy-free for the first time in 3 years and my kids haven't been to their regular pediatrician in at least 2 years.. They never get sick anymore! Celiac disease is an autoimmune disorder.. The antibodies attack YOU and it ties up your immune system to the point where it can't appropriately fight other invaders. It causes widespread inflammation throughout your entire body.. Every body system is affected.. gut, brain, skin, muscles, bones, etc. So it's important to rule this out because if you have celiac (or even non-celiac gluten intolerance) and you are eating gluten, the long-term consequences are serious.. other autoimmune diseases will develop (diabetes, arthritis, etc.), more food allergies will develop, gut health is compromised, mental health is compromised, degenerative diseases develop (osteoporosis, degenerative disk disease, and eventually alzheimer's too).. there are risks such as multiple sclerososis, cancer (non-hodgkin's lymphoma is a common one as well as colon cancer). Many adults are diagnosed with fibromyalgia, irritable bowel disease, chronic fatigue, migraines, diabetes, arthritis, depression, etc. but these things improve or go away when gluten is removed.

 

My mother has suffered with celiac disease for just about her entire life.. Undiagnosed.. she was diagnosed with everything under the sun instead.. As a child she was diagnosed as learning disabled and hyperactive (she was probably ASD as she had many sensory and social issues as well). She had multiple ear infections and had to have tubes put in her ears.. She became 75% deaf in one ear. As she moved into adulthood, by her 30's she was diagnosed with fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, irritable bowel syndrome, panic disorder, anxiety, depression, migraines.. Then in her 40's she was diagnosed with degenerative disk disease, she had muscle spasms that required injections, she required major surgery to fix some collapsed disks in her neck.... She was on several medications to control her pain, her headaches, her anxiety, etc. etc. It was ridiculous! After I discovered the gluten intolerance with my children (and me) I convinced my mother (after months of nagging her) to finally give up gluten. After a couple of months of GF, she was amazed that just about everything wrong with her just disappeared.. She still has the resulting degenerative issues.. her knees are bad her disks are still too close together. But her muscle pain is almost non-existent.. She has ZERO headaches now.. She has tons of energy.. Her irritable bowel is GONE.. Her anxiety has improved.. She says she has never felt better. She won't touch gluten now if someone paid her! But it makes me sick to think of all those years she suffered and all those medical bills she had to pay and all those meds she had to buy. Gluten pretty much ruined her life as she is now nearing 60 and just now being diagnosed and treated properly.

 

So I would at least do a trial run on your child who is suspected the most of being gluten intolerant and try to figure this out before committing the entire family to it. Just be very careful of cross-contamination.. He can't use the same toaster or have his food prepared in the same area as the gluten foods. Otherwise the trial run is inaccurate.

 

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

[LittleIzumi]

UPDATE:

Going completely gluten-free is no longer possible here. Ds was diagnosed with severe food allergies & whole grains is one of the few areas left to us. However, my dd did not ever display gluten craving or addiction. She actually prefers rice or potatoes. We are trying to stay low-gluten though.

 

I did cut out dairy completely (which she seemed very addicted to). She has had the best couple of weeks, behavior-wise. Very much calmer. VERY much. As dairy is also one of ds's newly diagnosed allergies, we are going pretty much dairy-free permanently in the house. On a related note, Daiya pepperjack "cheese" (vegan) is awesome. :D

[HSMother]

So I would at least do a trial run on your child who is suspected the most of being gluten intolerant and try to figure this out before committing the entire family to it. Just be very careful of cross-contamination.. He can't use the same toaster or have his food prepared in the same area as the gluten foods. Otherwise the trial run is inaccurate.

 

 

 

Thanks for the info! I'm going to have to talk this over with my husband...

 

Michelle

[HSMother]

Thanks for the info! I'm going to have to talk this over with my husband...

 

My husband is on board so we will give it a go. How long does the trial need to be to determine whether it's going to help or not?

 

And, if we go gluten free but keep dairy in, is that a bad idea?

 

Michelle

[Misty]

My husband is on board so we will give it a go. How long does the trial need to be to determine whether it's going to help or not?

 

And, if we go gluten free but keep dairy in, is that a bad idea?

 

Most suggest at least 2-3 months. It takes up to 6 months to clear gluten out of the system completely. And several months longer for the intestinal lining to heal from gluten damage. But you should see improvements in behavior and other symptoms within 2-3 months. Some see improvement in the first week. Ours was more gradual. We saw a more immediate change in behavior when we first took dairy out.. My daughter settled down within 3 days. A month later, we removed gluten and stayed gluten free. There was definitely an improvement, but I can't put my finger on which week we saw the most noticeable difference. It wasn't until 18 months later when someone gave my daughter two donuts that I realized how much gluten really affects her. She instantly regressed and we were suddenly back in time to the way she used to be.. Actually worse than she used to be.. Very hyperactive, stimming, aggressive, rage, tantrums (we're talking about an almost 8yr old here), breaking things, running off, screaming over everything, hurting people, motor and vocal tics, AND her severe OCD came back.. She was like that for six weeks and it was such a nightmare. I couldn't take her anywhere, my house became a disaster area, I became depressed.. It was horrible.. I guard her mouth with my life now! I will NEVER go through that again!

 

As far as dairy, I don't think it's necessary to cut it out during this trial with gluten since you have already done a dairy-free trial.. But if you decide to go gluten free for good, it might be a good idea to go dairy free for the first six months to a year until the gut is healed. Especially if you think he might be lactose intolerant.

 

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

Edited August 4, 2011 by Misty