Is this rigorous? :)

[LNC]

I think it is - and if we can pull it off with excellent sat scores and extracurriculars she will get into our top state university. It may not be exactly what WTM recommends for rhetoric - but for us it fits well with college expectations. I have a similar outline for my youngers son - but he is advanced in math so it looks a bit different.

 

9th:

Math – Chalkdust Geometry

Lang. Arts –

Online Lang. Arts class - Potter's School or elsewhere

w/ Great Books Lit corresponding to history

Vocabulary for the College Bound Student

Bible – The Most Important Thing You Will Ever Study book 3

Logic – Memoria Press Traditional 2

Spanish – Visual Link Spanish

Science – Dive Biology w/ BJU w/ CLEP/SAT2

Latin- Third Form

History – Early Modern: Truthquest Age of Revolution 1, part of Age of Revolution 2

AP US Gov’t - Penn Homeschoolers online

AP Human Geography - Penn Homeschoolers online

 

10th:

Math – – Chalkdust Algebra 2

Lang. Arts –

Joy of Vocabulary

SAT vocabulary review

AP Lang/Comp

Bible – The Most Important Thing You Will Ever Study book 4

Logic – Memoria Press Material Logic

Spanish – Visual Link Spanish Advanced

Science – Dive Chemistry w/BJU & CLEP/Sat2

AP Econ - Penn Homeschoolers online

Latin- Fourth Form

History – Modern: Truthquest part of Age of Revolution 2 and Age of Revolution 3

 

11th:

Math – Chalkdust Precalculus

AP Eng. Literature - Penn Homeschoolers online

AP European History - Penn Homeschoolers online

Rhetoric – Memoria Press Classical Rhetoric with Aristotle

Latin- Online class reading

Spanish – CC 1 & 2

Electives – CC

Science – AP Chemistry - Penn Homeschoolers online

 

12th:

Math – AP Calculus online

Great Books of Western World elective online or home

Spanish – CC 3&4

History –AP US History (Penn. Homeschoolers online course)

AP Latin

Science- AP Physics online and or Dive Physics w/ AP test

Electives – CC

Edited June 27, 2011 by LNC

[angela in ohio]

It is rigorous. The one thing I would say: I think your 9th grade year is a little bit unrealistic. Doing two languages throughout high school will eat up most of your electives, expecially when you add in logic or rhetoric each year, and I think adding an extra 1 1/2 humanities credits on top of that will be a lot for a 9th grader.

[LNC]

It is rigorous. The one thing I would say: I think your 9th grade year is a little bit unrealistic. Doing two languages throughout high school will eat up most of your electives, expecially when you add in logic or rhetoric each year, and I think adding an extra 1 1/2 humanities credits on top of that will be a lot for a 9th grader.

 

I know - I've heard AP Human Geography is easy so I thought I would try, but the other Ap is probably too much for a 9th grader.

[Gwen in VA]

Your plan i certainly rigorous! Do remember that even more important than doing AP classes is scoring well on the AP exams! Make sure your child has enough time to really master the material and do well. Four AP exams with 5's is much better than 8 AP exams with 3's!

 

And make sure that your child still has time to pursue his outside activities.

 

FYI, I aim for 5-6 core classes each year, with 1-2 half-unit electives.

 

As your child matures, he may have oodles of opinions on which classes he wants to study in-depth and which classes he wants to skip. For example, my dd did two AP social sciences her senior year but didn't do a science that year. (She is entering a Ph.D. program in engineering this fall -- go figure!) My son took two AP social sciences both his junior and senior years, but had only one elective either year.

 

Be sure to adjust your plan as your child matures and has more opinions about his passions and where he is headed!

 

9th grade --

 

You have your child doing history and AP US Govt and AP human geography. That is three history/social science classes, two of which may take up to 1.5 hours per day. I think doing potentially up to four hours of social science per day is a bit much!

 

You also have a total of seven "core" classes -- three social sciences (2 AP), two languages, science and math. That is a pretty intense course load, and when you add Bible and logic, the courseload gets very intense.

 

Questions --

 

1) Is your child really so interested in languages that he shouold pursue two during high school?

2) Is your child so gung-ho about the social sciences that you want him doing 2-3 each year?

 

I estimate the time a child will spend doing school by assigning one hour to most core subject, 1.5 hours to AP classes, and 1/2 hour to electives like logic. For us that number is usually within an hour or so (either way) of the approximate time per day. Anytime we add something extra like studying for SAT2's, that adds hours.

 

If you include your child's extracurricular activities, is the number of hours per day manageable? (Don't forget to include eating and family/relaxation time in the estimate!)

[Janice in NJ]

Hi LNC,

 

Have you taken the time to draw up a schedule to see how your child's day/week might look?

 

Just an honest, rough scan:

 

Too many credits: Your 9th grade list looks nearly impossible. Three history classes, two of them AP, for a 9th grader? I'm counting 11 credits. :confused:

 

Wrong classes at the wrong time: PA Home schoolers doesn't offer AP Econ for 10th graders; the class is for 11th and 12 graders.

 

An unrealistic plan for a 24-hour day: For 11th grade, the AP chem class recommends 10-12 hours per week; The AP lit class is 8-12 hours; AP Euro is the same 10-12 hours per week. Add in math, CC courses - with drive time - Latin and Rhetoric, etc. Whoa!

 

I'm not trying to be discouraging, but unless your child is extremely driven and is already handling high school level work with extreme ease, this list looks completely undoable. And you don't need this kind of high school course load in order to gain entrance into even a top state school.

 

I would recommend that you relax, take a step back, and rethink this. :001_smile: I really think you are headed to a very discouraging place.

 

I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, but this list doesn't look rigorous to me. This list looks impossible to me - for all but an extremely unique kid. Extremely unique.

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

[obsidian]

9th:

Math – Chalkdust Geometry (1 credit)

Lang. Arts – (1 credit)

Online Lang. Arts class - Potter's School or elsewhere

w/ Great Books Lit corresponding to history

Vocabulary for the College Bound Student

Bible – The Most Important Thing You Will Ever Study book 3 (1 credit)

Logic – Memoria Press Traditional 2 (1 credit)

Spanish – Visual Link Spanish (1 credit)

Science – Dive Biology w/ BJU w/ CLEP/SAT2 (1 credit)

Latin- Third Form (1 credit)

History – Early Modern: Truthquest Age of Revolution 1, part of Age of Revolution 2 (1 credit)

AP US Gov’t - Penn Homeschoolers online (1 credit)

AP Human Geography - Penn Homeschoolers online (1 credit)

 

I think 9th grade is way too much. That's 10 credits and almost all of them look like very academic and time consuming credits. That would mean something around a 12 hour school day at least! Also, do you realize that CLEP is basically the same as AP?

 

10th:

Math – – Chalkdust Algebra 2 (1 credit)

Lang. Arts –(1 credit)

Joy of Vocabulary

SAT vocabulary review Do you need both vocabulary? Could you just review for SAT vocabulary?

AP Lang/Comp

Bible – The Most Important Thing You Will Ever Study book 4 (1 credit)

Logic – Memoria Press Material Logic (1 credit)

Spanish – Visual Link Spanish Advanced (1 credit)

Science – Dive Chemistry w/BJU & CLEP/Sat2 (1 credit)

AP Econ - Penn Homeschoolers online (1 credit)

Latin- Fourth Form (1 credit)

History – Modern: Truthquest part of Age of Revolution 2 and Age of Revolution 3 (1 credit)

That's nine credits of very heavy classes. Still a lot, IMO.

 

11th:

Math – Chalkdust Precalculus (1 credit)

AP Eng. Literature - Penn Homeschoolers online (1 credit)

AP European History - Penn Homeschoolers online (1 credit)

Rhetoric – Memoria Press Classical Rhetoric with Aristotle (1 credit)

Latin- Online class reading (1 credit)

Spanish – CC 1 & 2 (2 credits)

Electives – CC (1 credit)

Science – AP Chemistry - Penn Homeschoolers online (1 credit)

Nine credits. It is a hard schedule.

 

12th:

Math – AP Calculus online (1 credit)

Great Books of Western World elective online or home (1 credit)

Spanish – CC 3&4 (2 credits)

History –AP US History (Penn. Homeschoolers online course) (1 credit)

AP Latin (1 credit)

Science- AP Physics online and or Dive Physics w/ AP test (1 credit)

Electives – CC (1 credit)

Eight credits. All but one of these are AP or CC. That's a lot!

 

Overall, it is a heavy schedule. 10 AP's + 6 CC classes is a lot. Will your dd be happy with eight to nine classes every year? What about hobbies and extracurriculars? What about electives following her interests? Is that what the CC elective slots are for? To me, this looks more like an Ivy prep education, than a top state school.

Edited June 27, 2011 by STEM

[DebbS]

Is everything you listed for 9th and 10th grade going to be a 1 credit course? If so, that would amount to 9 to 10 hours of school 5 days/wk? Plus, generally, AP courses take more time than that - even the easy ones. Colleges often give 1.5 credits for AP because they expect them to take more than 1 hour/day.

 

If so, your plans are more than rigorous. Though it may not be true of your children, both of mine would experience extreme burn-out with a schedule such as what you're proposing. Usually 6 to 7 courses are enough and that allows for them to pursue their subjects of interest at a greater depth and have some time for non-academic activities too.

 

I'm not trying to be contrary here, as your children may be quite different than mine. I'm just suggesting a reality check. And it may turn out that your plans are actually realistic for your children.

[Brigid in NC]

I know - I've heard AP Human Geography is easy . . .

That was what I thought too, from what I had read. My ds tackled AP Human Geo in 9th through PA Homescholers and he did not find it to be easy. The text that was used was excellent, but the reading level was -- appropriately -- college level. It may have been just that particular text -- but my ds and I both found the reading to be quite challenging, so the course took more time than we had anticipated. :)

[Janice in NJ]

Oh. Another note.

 

Potter's School English 3 (the standard TPS college-prep 9th grade course) isn't likely to provide the prep you need to move directly to AP English Language. There isn't enough writing in the English 3 course. TPS recommends additional classes after English 3 before the student takes an AP-level course. Rather than provide a ramp, there will be a writing leap from the last month of TPS Eng 3 to AP English Language. A large leap.

 

The TPS Advanced Composition class requires much more writing, but won't include prep for the reading required in AP English. For example - TPS assignments generally require the student to respond to a prompt, not a writing sample. In order to respond to a writing sample, you need strong reading skills and writing skills. AP English requires an advanced level of both reading and writing; a solid ramp will provide both.

 

Has your student taken outside courses during this 8th grade year? In what subjects and at what level? How did it go? Does your student work quickly and can he grasp concepts quickly? Does your student have a strong work-ethic with attention to detail? Can he easily handle/schedule/work-toward multiple deadlines?

 

If you provide a little more information/background about your 8th grade year and your student's/family's strengths/interests/backgrounds, I'm sure the gals on this board will be able to offer you concrete ramps to a strong college prep 9th grade year that might fit your situation.

 

Peace,

Janice

[DebbS]

I know - I've heard AP Human Geography is easy so I thought I would try, but the other Ap is probably too much for a 9th grader.

 

AP Human Geography is one of the easier subjects in that it doesn't require many prerequisites to learn the material. It still takes more time than a non-AP class. It's a hands-on subject, so if your child learns by doing, this will be a relief from the more text-bookish course work. My son's AP course required 7 to 8 hours per week of reading(textbooks, books, current articles), video viewing, written assignments, labs and projects. He did not attend an online class of any kind, so it did not include those hours that Penn high school will probably include. You can probably find out an estimate of the number of hours the course is expected to take from Penn.

 

Edit: In agreement with Brigid in NC, the reading is college level. My son had to report on several books that are written at the adult/college level that also required some understanding of the state of the world economically, politically and geographically. It's a great course but it is inter-disciplinary and the child needs to be able to integrate information from alot of different kinds of sources.

Edited June 27, 2011 by DebbS

[angela in ohio]

It's good to have a game plan, and it's good to have it be full of high expectation, because it's easier to back off of your plans than to ramp them up, imho. Scrambling to do research and add something after the year has started is much harder than just dropping something.

 

Remember that only you know what your dc are capable of. :001_smile: You will be in a better position next year to know what is reasonable for 9th grade, and then the next year what is reasonable for 10th, etc. You can always drop things (although that entails a financial penalty with the online AP courses.)

[elegantlion]

One note, as I won't repeat what others have said. We are considering AP Human Geography, but at the 12th grade level. My current plan is to do three years of history and the Human Geography along with World Lit and maybe Earth Science as a senior. That way even if the concepts are a little less strenuous (if not time consuming) he'll be able to be able to apply the harder thinking to all the details of college applications, testings, visiting, etc.

 

I'm planning high school now (all plans are in pencil) and my general rule is five core classes each year and two electives. Our core include Latin, math, science, English, & history/social studies.

[LNC]

Yes - I know it is A LOT. I'm not sure we can do it. Thanks for the input. It is what I want to aim for though - except the 9th grade for my daughter needs revamping. My son's 9th grade looks very different bc of where he will be in his chronological history and Latin studies etc.

 

Btw, I do want to have them take AP Gov and AP Econ instead of 1 semester Govt. and Econ with me- mostly bc of who teaches them at Penn Homeschoolers and the course descriptions. I will have to look more closely at the best years to take those - she would have to double up on "social studies/history" which ever year we worked them in though.

 

I do have a desire for potential scholarships and even ivies applications. But, really just want to clinch the top state school for both children. I don't know of a single homeschooler to get in there. I've read college confidential and the homeschoolers who get in have quite the transcripts!

 

My twin and I had a very spotty public education - we moved a lot. We had NM scholarships, 5 APs (all our high school offered) with dual enrollment at Emory University our senior year. It was enough to double major and add a minor in 4 years. I could have graduated in 3 years with 1 major. I like the idea of verifying "mommy grades" and getting college credit while in high school - it just makes sense for homeschoolers imo. I was married the summer after graduation and we started our family. My twin went on to graduate degrees at ivies. I would love my children to go to a particular ivy bc I fell in love with it on my trips to visit my sister. I don't want to limit them in ANY way. So, I'm not at all sure we can do it - but this is what I want to try to accomplish. They haven't taken any outside courses yet, but I have hints of what they are capable of through their Iowa scores...

 

Thanks again!

Edited June 29, 2011 by LNC

[Melanie]

I won't quibble about your choice to study two languages; my 9th grader is finishing up Henle Second Year Latin and Athenaze Greek. :D Also, he has already done Traditional Logic 2 and Material Logic; they weren't especially difficult or time consuming, and I'd count them as 1/2 credit each. (He's working through Classical Rhetoric With Aristotle now, and that is worth a full credit.) But about the AP classes in 9th grade - I'm sure your child can handle them (otherwise, you wouldn't even be considering them at this point), but at what expense? Would she have to give up other, more engaging activities? If so, I would drop the AP classes - I think they're expensive, time consuming, and at this point, unnecessary. Unless, of course, she'd like nothing better than to study AP government and geography. (I know there must be kids who fit that description; I just haven't met any. :tongue_smilie: )

[mjbucks1]

I do have a desire for potential scholarships and even ivies applications.

 

 

This struck me. Is this what your child wants, or what you want? Believe me, I am all for rigorous and encouraging children to achieve their best, but for your child to even attempt this schedule there must be a great deal of self-motivation (and even then I am just not sure). I am also concerned that there would be no time with this schedule for outside activities (music lessons, sporting activities, or volunteering). While academics are VERY important, so is a well rounded child. I am really just concerned about burn out :tongue_smilie:. However, it is good that you are looking at a possible schedule now!!

 

Blessings,

Michelle

[LNC]

This struck me. Is this what your child wants, or what you want? Believe me, I am all for rigorous and encouraging children to achieve their best, but for your child to even attempt this schedule there must be a great deal of self-motivation (and even then I am just not sure). I am also concerned that there would be no time with this schedule for outside activities (music lessons, sporting activities, or volunteering). While academics are VERY important, so is a well rounded child. I am really just concerned about burn out :tongue_smilie:. However, it is good that you are looking at a possible schedule now!!

 

Blessings,

Michelle

 

My children are youngish - and they don't talk about a desire for scholarships. I desire them for the financial benefit to the family :). I benefitted greatly from a merit scholarship and did not have to have college loans. So now I see all the more how a scholarship could benefit my children too. I thought about the wording when I said "I" and was sure it would be noticed. My children also don't know the "prestige" of an ivy league school, but they see family pics and hear stories. So they desire certain colleges because of that - not the "prestige". Hopefully that makes sense.

Edited June 27, 2011 by LNC

[Teachin'Mine]

What does your student think of the 9th grade schedule?

 

It looks ... ummm ... beyond rigorous. JMO

[LNC]

What does your student think of the 9th grade schedule?

 

It looks ... ummm ... beyond rigorous. JMO

 

I'm thinking too many "social studies" for 9th grade! :001_smile:

 

I'll have to think about whento fit in AP Gov't, maybe 9th still. It does look like Ap Econ is only offered in 11th and 12th - I'll have to switch that around from 10th. She may not have a chance for AP Human Geography.

 

Otherwise, I think the four year plan looks ok except I'm concerned about both Spanish and Latin... I want to try...

[mjbucks1]

I completely understand wanting scholarship money :D! I have talked to my older children, especially ds, a great deal about this. One thing you might consider is bumping up their middle school studies, so you have more room to attempt higher level classes in high school. DS took biology this year (his 8th grade year) and has already started chemistry (he will complete both Apologia chemistry books by the end of his 9th grade year). He works year round in math and science (as that is his interest). He is finishing Saxon Alg II and will move on to Advanced Math for 9th grade. This will allow plenty of room for AP classes in 10-12th grade. I will say that we sat down with ds last year (end of 7th grade) and talked about which AP classes he might like to attempt and the overall plan.

 

Blessings,

Michelle

[Teachin'Mine]

I'm thinking too many "social studies" for 9th grade! :001_smile:

 

I'll have to think about whento fit in AP Gov't, maybe 9th still. It does look like Ap Econ is only offered in 11th and 12th - I'll have to switch that around from 10th. She may not have a chance for AP Human Geography.

 

Otherwise, I think the four year plan looks ok except I'm concerned about both Spanish and Latin... I want to try...

 

I didn't realize the grades your children are in when I asked the question. I'm sure when the time comes, they'll have an opinion. :)

[choirfarm]

I .

 

9th:

Math – Chalkdust Geometry

Lang. Arts –

Online Lang. Arts class - Potter's School or elsewhere

w/ Great Books Lit corresponding to history

Vocabulary for the College Bound Student

Bible – The Most Important Thing You Will Ever Study book 3

Logic – Memoria Press Traditional 2

Spanish – Visual Link Spanish

Science – Dive Biology w/ BJU w/ CLEP/SAT2

Latin- Third Form

History – Early Modern: Truthquest Age of Revolution 1, part of Age of Revolution 2

AP US Gov’t - Penn Homeschoolers online

AP Human Geography - Penn Homeschoolers online

 

CC

 

Grin.. The best laid plans of mice and men. I'm going to plug in what you have here on a sample schedule. I don't know about how some of these classes go:

8-9am Chalkdust Geometry ( most kids would need more here, but if your kid is like my oldest this will be sufficient)

9-9:30 Go online for AP Government and post and get assignments

9:30-10:30 actually do the AP Government reading and assignments for the day

10:30-11:15 Latin ( don't have a clue how long this takes your child)

11:15-12 Lunch

12-1:30 Biology- I'm assuming watching a video a day, readin for at least 20-30 minutes and filling out on your own or study questions, listening to Lyrical Life science or just memorizing work however you do it, practice CLEP questions, etc.

1:30 -2:00 Go online to do AP Geography work, post, get assignments ,etc

2-3:00 Actually doing the work

3-4 Potters School ( don't have a clue how long this takes your child)

 

Now, your child is already brain dead by this time. I haven't plugged in Bible, great books, logic, Spanish, American history... I have some really smart kids who are VERY quick readers and there is no way. I have a history lover, but if I tried to do AP Government, Geography and American history, he would hate it by the end of the year. Here is what I consider a rigorous schedule for my middle child who will be a 9th grader:

 

Apologia Biology- using the honors schedule that joanna gilbert had with living books and extra projects

 

PA Homeschoolers AP Government

 

TT Geometry ( Oldest did Chalkdust like your child and did great, this one can't handle it)

 

AP Literature- with me, I'm designing my own class

 

Total Health- easy fluff class

 

Spanish I and II at CC

 

Racquetball at CC

 

I'm not sure what his other course will be at the CC in the spring, probably another PE. So by the end of this year he will have 6 hours of college credit for Spanish, and a possible 3 hours in Government and 3 hours in English. We might try to do a CLEP with Biology as I have the REA guide and we can just play that by ear. He also does piano which requires an hour or so of practicing every day. You didn't mention if you do any extra-curriculars.. Those take time as well.

 

 

The PA Homeschoolers AP classes take a lot of work. My oldest works really fast and has always finished his work easily. He normally watches a Chalkdust lesson and does all the odds in an hour to an hour and a half. He likes to do it all in one day. Most of those books he finished in Feb or March. His online AP class required a good hour and a half to two hours nearly every day. I just don't see how you can have them learn Geography, Government and American history in a year...

 

Christine

Edited June 28, 2011 by choirfarm

[Tina D]

Apologia Biology- using the honors schedule that joanna gilbert had with living books and extra projects

Christine

 

 

Where do you find that schedule? Thanks

[choirfarm]

http://www.hslaunch.com/mypage/profile/8288

 

Here it is. Look at the link on the left hand side that has honors biology living books + movies. It has the schedule in it along with great instructions to her sons.

 

Christine

[LNC]

Most replies are referring to my original post and commenting on the 9th grade list. I posted down the thread that I have realized, thanks to several comments, that I need to revamp her 9th grade list. I've posted that I will delay AP Hum Geo bc of too many "social studies" that year.

 

I like the idea of AP US Gov with modern TQ. I could also combine with AP US later and keep AP Hum Geo in 9th. Not sure. The schedule isn't set in stone, my desire for a challenging course of study w/ several AP courses is.

 

They have/will continue to have a lot of extra curriculars and volunteer work. I believe homeschooling/tutorial education is so much more streamlined than what I did. I went to an institution for 8 hours, straight to work for 4 more hrs., studied until midnight/1am every day. Yes, their days will be very challenging. But, it seems to me that they will waste soooo much less time than I did because of homeschooling and not having to earn money during the school year.

 

Btw, Potter's school is just one idea of how to outsource 9th grade prep for AP Comp in 10th. I'm not sure it is necessary. I was an English major, and we have several college and law professors in the family who can read and evaluate her writing. That may streamline 9th grade further.

 

Thanks everyone!

Edited June 29, 2011 by LNC