WWYD-Would you force a reluctant 7th grader to HS?

[Blessedchaos]

We just got news last night that the planned middle and high school local charter school hybrid program into which we were planning to enroll DS 12 is being put on hold for 6 months to a year. He is currently at the local middle school where he will be in 7th grade this fall. We still want him to attend this hybrid school (combination of home & a day a week in the school) when it opens, however, we will now be subjected to a lottery if and when it does open, so there is no guarantee we will ever get in. DS does not want to attend this school, but we feel it is a much better fit for him than his current school.

 

DS spent most of the past year hating school and begging to be homeschooled. He is gifted and he was bored. Suddenly a few months ago, this changed and a now he wants to stay at his school. I'm quite sure it's because he doesn't want to leave his friends and so he no longer is interested in either full or part time homeschooling.

 

While it isn't awful, I do not care for his school. It is large and there are all the social issues that come with large middle schools. Academics are mediocre at best (I was the one who started the thread about our school district no longer teaching the classics). The one good thing I can say about it is that they have accomodated his giftedness (is that a word?) in math by putting him into an advanced, independent study class where he is now studying high school statistics.

 

Part time homeschooling is an option, but that eliminates any enrichment options thru the day. We are within walking distance of the school which would make this easier but since we have long, cold winters I would still often have to drive him.

 

I also have 2 younger children who are coming home. My DD 7 doesn't really want to HS, so if I let DS stay in school I feel like that is not sending her a consistent message.

 

My biggest problem, though, is that I have HS this child in the past and it was REALLY hard. He is gifted and has a VERY intense personality. He has few interests and is hard to motivate. He wants to rush through everything to get done and play video games or watch TV. I have failed miserably afterschooling him because I got tired of all the arguing, though he had plenty of time to do extra work as he never had any homework. Also, he doesn't get along well with the other 2 children and tends to cause trouble when he gets bored, and he is very easily bored. He is a great kid, don't get me wrong, and he has plenty of positives too, but these are the issues I know would be really hard for the rest of us.

 

On the other hand, he is very easily influenced by peers and it has really escalated this first year of middle school. Most of our arguments this year center around not being able to play M rated video games or watch R rated movies like his friends can. We have had minor problems with lying and not following rules. I just worry that my staying in school not only will he be receiving a crummy education, but that the social stuff will get way worse also.

 

I know if I bring him home, my job will be a much harder and my energy will be taken away from the other kids. Yet, how do I tell my DD that big brother gets to stay in school but she can't? And how would I make peace with knowing I'm settling for what I feel is a lesser education for DS?

 

Help! What would you do??

[lovelaughs_times_three]

:grouphug: I don't have good answers for you. I am wondering what to do for my rising 4th grader who wants to go to ps now. I'm posting to give you my sympathies and a hug, and to bump this post up. I'm all :bigear: to the wisdom of the hive for you! :001_smile:

 

*********

The above being true, I wanted to add this. I am hoping you will hear a lot of wisdom from all the people here who have gone before us. But the real wisdom will come from a quiet place inside of you. God loves your children even more than you do. He has amazing plans for their lives that we can only imagine. He knows which path of life and what challenges they need to overcome in order to become the man/woman that will make them the happiest and reach their best dreams. He has chosen YOU to be their parent. He knows how you will respond to things and what your personality and values will lead you to do. He LOVES how you parent! Sometimes there is so much noise in other people's opinions, our fears and worries, and all the options that we get distracted and stressed. Sometimes the best thing to do to make the complicated choices we have to make as parents, is to get somewhere quiet. Take a deep breath. Pray for wisdom. Listen to the quiet peace that is somewhere deep inside of us. And trust. Trust that wisdom. Trust that peace. Trust ourselves as parents. Trust God to be bigger than our limited view.

I know that whatever you choose, it will be the exact thing that both of your children need. It will help each of them face the challenge in life that they need right now to be strong in a new area.

 

Cheering you on!!! :001_smile:

[Love_to_Read]

If you decide to bring him home, one thought is to set school hours for a child who rushes. Acceptable free time options are extra reading for fun or for content areas, or working on long-term projects such as writing assignments or science fair displays, or hands on projects like building curcuits while studying electricity...but nonetheless SCHOOL during school hours no matter how early he finishes today's official lessons. TV or xbox start at 3pm or whatever. You could strike a deal that is earlier than public school but longer than his racing through...a lot of states suggest a minimum of 5hrs/day. I'm sure he'll protest at first, which is why I'd try to make it sound like a fair way to meet requirements still less than ps, but it might eliminate the frequent protests by being consistent, and might get him to not race through as badly.

[RanchGirl]

Bored, easily influenced by peers middle school boy spells major trouble to me. I would try to homeschool if you can make some changes as far as motivation, causing trouble, etc. E.g. Complaining/rushing/causing trouble equals loss of privileges, while positive behaviors (which are carefully spelled out) equals reward of some kind... Can you get him interested in something positive, something he can form a passion for and that will keep him busy and using his brain? Sports, Legos, robots, computer programming, a foreign language, cooking, drawing, complex puzzles, competitive math? Do you have a local gifted homeschooling support group where he can find peers and interesting activities, and you can share ideas?

[Haiku]

Help! What would you do??

 

I would homeschool. Going to school to socialize is not, to me, a good reason to go to school and, honestly, I am often surprised by the weight people give to this reason for sending kids to school. There are plenty of opportunities for kids to see their friends outside of school/homeschool hours. Wasting their education so they can socialize between 8 and 3:30 (or whatever) doesn't make sense to me.

 

It sounds like your son needs more responsibilities at home and probably to do some volunteer work/play a sport/take a hobby class so he has more to do and less time to be bored.

 

As for the tv/video game thing, that's easily solved by saying, "We watch tv/play video games after 4 pm, so even if you rush your schoolwork, tv/video games are not waiting for you."

 

When my dd was 13 I put her in charge of making dinner several times a week. She had to plan the meals, make a grocery list, and accompany me shopping. It was a real responsibility, not just busy work. I would encourage you to find something similar for your son.

 

Tara

[PeterPan]

Ok, a really divergent thought to throw out to you. If he's so hard, intense, and has narrow interests, have you had him evaluated to see if there's anything *more* than just giftedness going on?

 

You might need to read up on some of Janice's "This is supposed to be hard and it being hard doesn't mean you're doing it wrong" posts...

[Kate CA]

I would homeschool. Going to school to socialize is not, to me, a good reason to go to school and, honestly, I am often surprised by the weight people give to this reason for sending kids to school. There are plenty of opportunities for kids to see their friends outside of school/homeschool hours. Wasting their education so they can socialize between 8 and 3:30 (or whatever) doesn't make sense to me.

 

It sounds like your son needs more responsibilities at home and probably to do some volunteer work/play a sport/take a hobby class so he has more to do and less time to be bored.

 

As for the tv/video game thing, that's easily solved by saying, "We watch tv/play video games after 4 pm, so even if you rush your schoolwork, tv/video games are not waiting for you."

 

When my dd was 13 I put her in charge of making dinner several times a week. She had to plan the meals, make a grocery list, and accompany me shopping. It was a real responsibility, not just busy work. I would encourage you to find something similar for your son.

 

Tara

 

:iagree: Great post. I want to add that you are the parent and your job is to make the best choices for your children. It sounds like homeschooling is that choice. Sometimes we do things our children don't initially like, but that comes with the territory. I don't think 7th grade is old enough to know what is best for his educational future.

[Blessedchaos]

OMG, I just typed up this long reply and then lost it all. Ugh. Trying again...

 

Thanks so much for all the replies so far. I just wanted to clarify that he has been in PS for four years, so it isn't like we are pulling him, putting him back in, etc.

 

Also, his access to all media is extremely limited, which is one of his complaints. Our children are only allowed to play video games on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday for a max of 2 hours a day. TV is only in the livingroom and the little that we watch is usually as a family. He loves online comics like Manga so we sometimes allow that as well.

 

I have tried to suggest activities for him and every suggestion is met with an emphatic, "NO!" Same with going practically anywhere. He loves soccer and all my kids play, so we do that every evening in the Spring through July. He is also a talented pianist, and he takes lessons once a week, though lately he says he is getting burnt out on that. He used to take swimming lessons, but he passed all the levels. We are members at the Y, but trying to get him to go is like pulling teeth. I have suggested clubs and sports at school, but there has been no interest. He was in Scouts for a few years, but quit. There has been no interest in 4H, though I've tried. I've suggested community activities, which are abundant to no avail. When we volunteer, camp, or pretty much go anywhere as a family, the complaints are endless. He also has chores at home, though I have been contemplating adding more. It's just so hard to deal with all the arguing.

 

I agree that bored plus strongly influenced by peers can cause trouble, which is why I'm worried. I also agree that social reasons are not good enough to keep children in a mediocre school, which is why I'm HS the others this fall and that 12 is too young to be able to make sound decisions for one's future and he and I have discussed this. We don't have neighborhood kids and we are strict about who and where he spends time and that has been a blessing with him. But I'm also really concerned about the stress that HS this child may have on me and my family. It was a major factor for why my kids went to PS in the first place. I haven't had him evaluated for anything else, though I have thought about it. He is gifted and his personality traits reflect much of what I've read on the subjet.

 

I really just don't know which way is best. PS would definitely be easier for me, but I feel like I'm cheating him academically. I really feel torn...

Edited June 14, 2011 by Blessedchaos

[twoforjoy]

I'm increasingly of the mindset that it's fine, if the parents feel it is the best option, to "force" a kid to homeschool. I mean, plenty of parents force their kids to attend public school or private school, and do so with no guilt at all. I'd probably seriously consider my child's point of view and use that as part of the decision-making, but if DH and I ultimately decided it was best to homeschool, and our child still wanted to be in school, I'd have no problem with forcing the child to live with our decision.

[Haiku]

I have tried to suggest activities for him and every suggestion is met with an emphatic, "NO!"

 

Were it me, I would say, "Son, you have two weeks to pick an activity to pursue. If you choose not to choose, I'll be happy to choose for you."

 

When we volunteer, camp, or pretty much go anywhere as a family, the complaints are endless. He also has chores at home, though I have been contemplating adding more. It's just so hard to deal with all the arguing.

 

"Son, your arguing and complaining makes these family activities unpleasant. If you choose to make things unpleasant, you are choosing both more chores and to give up your tv/video game/computer time."

 

I'm very matter-of-fact with my kids about these things. My dd17 regularly chooses to give me her phone by choosing to be unkind to my ds8. I'm always careful to remind her that I recognize that this is her choice. ;)

 

Tara

[LibraryLover]

You have to do what you think is right for your particular child. Knowing his intensity, you will have to consider how you will handle that and make sure he gets various outlets for his needs. We have to tweak for needs all the time. It's how it is.

Edited June 14, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Blessedchaos]

Were it me, I would say, "Son, you have two weeks to pick an activity to pursue. If you choose not to choose, I'll be happy to choose for you."

 

 

 

"Son, your arguing and complaining makes these family activities unpleasant. If you choose to make things unpleasant, you are choosing both more chores and to give up your tv/video game/computer time."

 

I'm very matter-of-fact with my kids about these things. My dd17 regularly chooses to give me her phone by choosing to be unkind to my ds8. I'm always careful to remind her that I recognize that this is her choice. ;)

 

Tara

 

I love your suggestions:001_smile:! It's funny because DS and I just had a talk about why he argues so much and he admitted it's habit. I explained that to break this habit, he needs to simply change his mindset and open it to new possibilities. He admitted that a lot of times he does have a good time at these things. I think your suggestion would be a perfect followup to a failure to stop and try to retrain his mindset.

 

We have had several days of lots of fighting (which is normal when a school break starts; then after a week or so they are fine) so I told the kids that fighting equals boredom and they will be choosing to receive extra chores or academic enrichment activities to fill their time. We'll see how it goes:tongue_smilie:.

 

Luckily I have several months to see how things go and make this decision.

[FriedClams]

Were it me, I would say, "Son, you have two weeks to pick an activity to pursue. If you choose not to choose, I'll be happy to choose for you."

 

 

 

"Son, your arguing and complaining makes these family activities unpleasant. If you choose to make things unpleasant, you are choosing both more chores and to give up your tv/video game/computer time."

 

I'm very matter-of-fact with my kids about these things. My dd17 regularly chooses to give me her phone by choosing to be unkind to my ds8. I'm always careful to remind her that I recognize that this is her choice. ;)

 

Tara

 

:iagree:

 

If I felt homeschooling were best for a child, I'd do it, regardless of their opinion. Generally speaking 13 year old boys are not known for having a great handle on 'the big picture'.

[LibraryLover]

:) Love this.

 

I love your suggestions:001_smile:! It's funny because DS and I just had a talk about why he argues so much and he admitted it's habit. I explained that to break this habit, he needs to simply change his mindset and open it to new possibilities. He admitted that a lot of times he does have a good time at these things. I think your suggestion would be a perfect followup to a failure to stop and try to retrain his mindset.

 

We have had several days of lots of fighting (which is normal when a school break starts; then after a week or so they are fine) so I told the kids that fighting equals boredom and they will be choosing to receive extra chores or academic enrichment activities to fill their time. We'll see how it goes:tongue_smilie:.

 

Luckily I have several months to see how things go and make this decision.

[KidsHappen]

I am asking myself the same question. I have a rising 7th grader whose schooling situation for next year is currently undecided. I told all of my children that they could choose to go to HS if they wanted. My 15 year old had difficulties that required years of preperation to get her ready to go to school at all and in concert with her counslor we decided to place her in middle school so that she would have time to build a social base for high school. This has went extraordianrily well and she will be in 9th grade next year.

 

However, this left her younger sister home alone and lonely. Since we knew that she would go to HS as well and hre sister's first year had went so well, we decided to put her in school the following year. It did not go as well. I pulled her out of 6th grade mid-year and would really like to keep her home next year and then put her back in school for 8th so that she will have friends going into 9th. My hubby agrees with me. She want to go back next year and her sisters agree with her (and they are homeschool grads in college) saying she simply needs more time to adjust and learn to function in a school setting which she will not get at home. Right now we are working with her (she has ADD which is the majority of her problem) and in concert with her counselor (who is pro homeschool) to try and decide if she will be ready to go back next year. I probably need to make a decision in a month to six weeks but am currently undecided.

[titianmom]

I have a stubborn kid of 14, so I feel your pain. A girl who can be sneaky, too...which isn't good, believe me. She's been caught telling whoppers and we ground on occasion. THis all started at about 13ish. She's very bright and ahead on most things, which she resents because she thinks I make her work too hard in school and around the house. (Any work at all is considered too hard...she does the dishes and has to keep her room up which in her mind is too much, so you get the picture.)

 

Honestly, I make her do what she's capable of and she always sails through everything with "A's" so obviously it isn't a struggle. If anything I let up because she could prob handle more than she does. She complains because her friends call her "brainiac". I like all the kids, honestly, and I work with them, but I hate to say it but she can sail around most of them and I know it bothers her a bit. I say that God makes us all different and they have their talents just as she does. She needs to do what God has in plan for her and she shouldn't worry about what everyone else is or isn't doing. It's hard for kids. They want to be like everyone else, whether it is right or not, unfortunately. Getting them to be their own person is tough.

 

And she's been homeschooled since Kindergarten. She learned to read short stories and 3-5th grade novels by the time she was 4 1/2. So again, I can identify.

 

I don't regret homeschooling at all. It's been a good fit for her because I can see exactly what she's doing and can pace things at her pace.

 

Question: Where's hubby in all of this? Do you have joint counselling sessions? That helps with mine. If mine sees that it isn't just mom that's expecting her to do her work, she resigns herself to her "fate" and does it.

 

I don't know if you're Christian or not, but we pray with her, also. A spiritual life helps.

 

It sounds like his interest is centered on video and movies, which isn't good IMHO. And he prob picked it all up at school. Mine watches her movies and any games she plays has to meet our approval as well. She doesn't complain much on it and sees the wisdom in it, because she's Christian. There have been too many studies showing the bad side of video games and too much TV so I don't need to go into that, do I? :0)

 

And unfortunately, guys have much more of a problem than gals with this. They become pretty obsessed with it and get so introverted they can't function in the real world (in extreme cases, of course). I have a friend who has a son who is addicted and he won't even leave the house. But she can't handle him so she just lets him do what he wants. The kid became violent and was thrown out of school. He spends 24-7 playing videos, now. Very sad.

 

I see you're being careful, which is good IMO. I'd hold the line at all costs, and let Dad weight in if necessary. For his sake.

 

I think it's possible that with some time at home, his attitude may change for the better. Time will tell. And if all else fails you can put him back in brick and mortar school.

 

Also, find out any other interests that he has. Make it a part of school. Let him weight in on what he studies if at all possible. THis is important with middlers and high schoolers: Start talking about the future and where they want to be in 5-10 years. It helps. Mine decided she wants to be a pilot. Great! We took her flying and she flew a plane and helped to land it. The instructor wasn't kidding when he said she's a natural. So she's excited about private lessons next year and now we have a focus. She may change her mind, but now she has a reason to go to school and work on more math and science skills. We plan to visit colleges next year. Keeps 'em motivated! (And no, we arent weathy. It'll be interesting to see how all of this works out, but we'll manage somehow. We're determined...)

 

Hope it helps,

Kim

 

Thanks so much for all the replies so far. I just wanted to clarify that he has been in PS for four years, so it isn't like we are pulling him, putting him back in, etc.

 

Also, his access to all media is extremely limited, which is one of his complaints. Our children are only allowed to play video games on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday for a max of 2 hours a day. TV is only in the livingroom and the little that we watch is usually as a family. He loves online comics like Manga so we sometimes allow that as well.

 

I have tried to suggest activities for him and every suggestion is met with an emphatic, "NO!" I really feel torn...

[Blessedchaos]

Question: Where's hubby in all of this? Do you have joint counselling sessions? That helps with mine. If mine sees that it isn't just mom that's expecting her to do her work, she resigns herself to her "fate" and does it.

 

I don't know if you're Christian or not, but we pray with her, also. A spiritual life helps.

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing your story, Kim! It was comforting to me to hear from someone who has a child like mine.

 

My dh is great. He is always supportive of what I choose to do, but he isn't super involved in any homeschooling or afterschooling things we've done. We do have the same expectations when it comes to academics. We don't do any counseling sessions, so that isn't a factor. We also aren't religious (DH comes from a Buddhist background and I come from an athiest home). I am spiritual, but haven't found any organized religion that fits me. I did go to church with the kids for a number of years, but I never felt like I fit in so we stopped going. The kids, especially ds, do not want to go back when I've talked about finding a new church. I do feel like it can be good for kids to have a spiritual component in their lives, but it's hard when church is teaching things that neither dh or I necessarily fully believe.

 

Dh does feel that Ds should return to school in the fall, more because if he gets into the hybrid program then it would be fewer adjustments but also because I think he worries that homeschooling ds would be too much for me. I get that, but at the same time, the hybrid program is not guaranteed and I'm not sure I want to be stuck in another year having to make this decision all over again with a now 13 year old.

[PeterPan]

Couple more ideas. One, I'm not big on severe screen time limitation. (I enjoy my tv, make no bones about it, and it's not the stuff my family likes either.) Maybe you could compromise on that, add a bit more, and make him a bit happier. It could be that it's a reward for a no-complaint day. Sounds like you could add in an hour a day as a reward and still not be overboard. Or reward with 1/2 hour for 1/2 day of no-complaints. A little more and the chance to chose ISN'T going to ruin his reading life. Oh, that was chose within the family limits. Rated R wouldn't quite make that, mercy. Sounds like you have some family discussions to have there.

 

Homeschooling does not isolate them from peer influences. They're still going to hear what their friends are doing (even homeschooled friends where things are different) and gripe. I'm in the middle of that. I think it's just the age. I think we also shy away from thorough discipline a little too early. The more intense the dc, the more intense the needs.

 

That brings up my next point, which is does he have anything to be intense about? I mean seriously, some people need to hyperfocus or do something intensely.

 

Final thought. Does he have anything PHYSICAL he's doing? A manly outlet for work? Sounds like some shoveling and sweating would be good for him. I can't do that with my dd quite as much as I'd like, simply because it wears her out (she's low tone). But for a normal boy, absolutely I'd find him a summer job, some man to hook up with, and get him SWEATING. Our kids are the same age, but everyone keeps telling me that's the key to chilling out some of this.

 

I always tell my dd she's like a poodle: too little stimulation, too little mental exercise, and she gets into trouble. Ironically, the symptom lists for giftedness and ADD are quite similar. People use those charts to say your gifted kid isn't ADD, just understimulated, but I think it could work the other way too, that people have both high potential AND a body getting in the way, either with hormones or attention/sensory or whatever.

 

 

BTW, even if you didn't have the other kids to contend with, he'd still be hard. It's the age, it's him, it's how he's reacting to the age. Everybody seems to think 14 is good. I keep alternating more strict discipline and enforcement with more mommy time. Does he get time with you or is it always while the littles are tagging around? Does he get to watch anything 12 yo's like, or is it always disney flicks for the 7 yo, kwim? We have to keep re-bonding with them and try to get through it.