Question for TOG, MFW, and Sonlight users.

[LuvingLife]

If you have used any of the above program for history, lit, and bible, which one do you find rigorous, thorough, and easy to follow? I like them all, but I want to hear from those that have used one of these programs, or maybe all of them and how your son/daughter liked them. This is important because we are on a budget this year and if I can get a good deal on them, then I will buy it. I am actually going to be buying it with my own money because I am getting a job which will help pay for my curriculum (I cost more than my siblings lol).

 

So I really want to make the right purchase. Which one is great for more independent users? I like that the bible is used in TOG and MFW, and Sonlight kind of costs a lot unless I will be able to find it used. A description on any of these would be most helpful for me.

[Mom0012]

Disclaimer: I haven't used all of these and I haven't used any of them at the high school level.

 

From what I understand about TOG, it can be very overwhelming to get started and you would need someone to have discussions with you about the material. Actually, with any of these programs, you probably should have someone to discuss the material with, but the discussion questions during the high school years are supposed to be one of the biggest benefits of TOG.

 

Sonlight is the program I have used for years with my kids. I think this could work for you for high school if you like to do a ton of reading and if you are a strong writer. You should be aware that there is a lot of controversy over whether SL 100 is a high school level core. I may use some of the SL cores (I really like the look of the books in Core 400) with my daughter when she is in high school.

 

MFW is the program I am considering for my son once he hits high school. It sounds like it is a strong program, but manageable, and it can be done fairly independently.

 

Lisa

[Julie in MN]

If you have used any of the above program for history, lit, and bible, which one do you find rigorous, thorough, and easy to follow? I like them all, but I want to hear from those that have used one of these programs, or maybe all of them and how your son/daughter liked them.

 

Well, I'm a MFW fan and would say it fits your criteria of rigor, thoroughness, and easy-to-follow. MFW can kind of sneak up on you and you realize you've learned everything you thought you might be missing. And it teaches in a variety of ways, not just reading hard texts & writing essays. I tweaked AHL somewhat for me.

 

I used just one year of Sonlight and found it was rigorous in some ways, thorough in some ways, and easy-to-follow in a few ways. I tweaked the Sonlight year a LOT.

 

I haven't used TOG.

 

How my child liked them? Well, I never homeschooled my oldest, and my younger 2 never really wanted to be in school :tongue_smilie: But I think my youngest, who is using MFW, liked that the first year of high school had a gentle intro to textbooks & essays rather than being buried in them, had some easier days, had some apologetics looking at questions he was starting to ask, had some real-life application to read about, and that mom adapted some things so he could be moving around while he was learning (audiobooks, read-alouds, subbed a few video lectures) :) Most of all, though, he loves reading the Bible and enjoyed having a lot of that -- not reading someone else's workbooks about the Bible, but reading the real Bible, line by line.

 

Julie

[RobinF]

I haven't used any of these in the upper grades but I would think that MFW is the best fit for what you are looking for.

[NavyWifeandMommy]

after almost completing MFW ECC my children do remember most of the countries and flags and world geography. It was easy for my oldest so that is why I am switing to Sonlight this fall. Another reason for Sonlight is because of the books. I am living overseas with a rather small American library (base library) and have been unable to get the books recommened. It's a pain to find books to go with what we were learning too.

I haven't used TOG but a friend of mine has and has enjoyed it. She has three children and has used all the cycles and is graduating one this year. She loves it but also there is a good library where she is at to get the books for it.

[Brindee]

The MFW AHL is a significant step up from ECC from what I've heard. AHL is high school level, and is a fairly rigorous program. My dd did a very large percentage of it independently and loved it! It weaves the different subjects together wonderfully, which helps it make more sense to the student. She learned a LOT, and really got into the Bible readings as well. As the mom/Teacher, I am thrilled with MFW and the independence it allowed my daughter with a large amount of deep learning!

[Julie in MN]

after almost completing MFW ECC my children do remember most of the countries and flags and world geography. It was easy for my oldest so that is why I am switing to Sonlight this fall. Another reason for Sonlight is because of the books. I am living overseas with a rather small American library (base library) and have been unable to get the books recommened. It's a pain to find books to go with what we were learning too.

I haven't used TOG but a friend of mine has and has enjoyed it. She has three children and has used all the cycles and is graduating one this year. She loves it but also there is a good library where she is at to get the books for it.

 

Yes, NavyWife, like Brindee I think you are mixing up the programs. It's a pity you didn't call over to the MFW office and get some help.

 

I'm not sure how old your oldest is, but a 7-8th grader, or even an advanced 6th grader, would use the ECC 7-8th grade package, which comes with advanced biographies and materials for writing reports. If you have a high schooler, then ECC is not recommended, but instead the high school program, which doesn't really require much use of the library (actually ECC 3rd grade was the main year we really used the library, and we've used MFW from 3rd thru 9th grades).

 

Thanks for your family's service on our behalf.

Julie

[abc123mom]

My dd is finishing up AHL --we had a very good year and learned much. Both my dd and I liked the independent aspects of MFW. It was very well laid out and covered much-good instructions for writing essays and while some of the reading wasnt exactly to her liking-not a big Illiad fan-she did learn from it

Rigorous enough for us~

 

I had done SL Core 1 & 3 years ago before finding MFW-I like the layout and ease of use of MFW

[Melissa in CA]

Which one is great for more independent users? I like that the bible is used in TOG and MFW, and Sonlight kind of costs a lot unless I will be able to find it used. A description on any of these would be most helpful for me.

 

I have used SL and TOG, and will be using MFW this fall. MFW is most definitely, without doubt, the more independent of the three. The schedule is written TO the student, with nice little daily notes right there with each week....and not in a HUGE binder like SL's where you have to locate your notes, weed through them, and then find that they really were not helpful at all. :lol:

 

TOG, in my opinion, is not good for independence. It could be, and I found it more so than SL, but it would take a lot of work over the summer getting all of your books decided on, printing out pages from the Loom, etc, to get it to that weekly/daily independent place. You would still need to have a day to discuss with a parent, so your parent would need to read the Teacher's Notes....which are extensive....to prepare for the discussion. So, in reality, TOG can be independent once everything is planned out, but the parents involvement is pretty crucial as well.

 

To me SL is not independent. I know people hand it to their high school student and walk away, but SL was not created for that type of independent schooling. SL is meant to be discussed with the parent and the parent is to be fully involved in the learning process...daily.

 

I have not actually used MFW yet. I have it. It's all ready to go for the fall. But, it's honestly the most independent and easiest to follow of the three. I LOVE their schedule/lesson plans. It's so nicely compact and easy to follow. Love it.

 

They are all three excellent schooling choices and I don't think you can go wrong in regards to rigour with any of them. I have not regreted using them with my boys...well except SL Core 400 which we found gawd awful. I couldn't sell that Core fast enough. :lol:

 

I hope you find what works for YOU!

[Mom0012]

I have used SL and TOG, and will be using MFW this fall. MFW is most definitely, without doubt, the more independent of the three. The schedule is written TO the student, with nice little daily notes right there with each week....and not in a HUGE binder like SL's where you have to locate your notes, weed through them, and then find that they really were not helpful at all. :lol:

 

TOG, in my opinion, is not good for independence. It could be, and I found it more so than SL, but it would take a lot of work over the summer getting all of your books decided on, printing out pages from the Loom, etc, to get it to that weekly/daily independent place. You would still need to have a day to discuss with a parent, so your parent would need to read the Teacher's Notes....which are extensive....to prepare for the discussion. So, in reality, TOG can be independent once everything is planned out, but the parents involvement is pretty crucial as well.

 

To me SL is not independent. I know people hand it to their high school student and walk away, but SL was not created for that type of independent schooling. SL is meant to be discussed with the parent and the parent is to be fully involved in the learning process...daily.

 

I have not actually used MFW yet. I have it. It's all ready to go for the fall. But, it's honestly the most independent and easiest to follow of the three. I LOVE their schedule/lesson plans. It's so nicely compact and easy to follow. Love it.

 

They are all three excellent schooling choices and I don't think you can go wrong in regards to rigour with any of them. I have not regreted using them with my boys...well except SL Core 400 which we found gawd awful. I couldn't sell that Core fast enough. :lol:

 

I hope you find what works for YOU!

 

Awww, what was so horrible about SL 400? That's one of the few high school cores I'm actually interested in because it's full of books that had a huge impact on me as a young adult -- The Chosen, The Grapes of Wrath, A Tree Grows in Brooklyn, The Scarlet Letter, The Jungle and Up from Slavery. I have read most of those books multiple times and was thinking this would be the one core I would definitely have my daughter use.

 

Lisa

[Melissa in CA]

Awww, what was so horrible about SL 400? That's one of the few high school cores I'm actually interested in because it's full of books that had a huge impact on me as a young adult -- The Chosen, The Grapes of Wrath, A Tree Grows in Brooklyn, The Scarlet Letter, The Jungle and Up from Slavery. I have read most of those books multiple times and was thinking this would be the one core I would definitely have my daughter use.

 

Lisa

 

No, the Lit books were great!! It was the Bible and Government that was horrid....or so we thought. I honestly do not think my boys learned any actual USEFUL Government that year. It was just so....gosh, I don't even have a word for it! :lol: We had used several SL Cores prior to 400, and we all just really, really disliked that Core in regards to the history and bible.

 

But, the Lit was great! No worries there. I was VERY disappointed that SL didn't offer any type of analysis for the Lit though. No real notes either, except to say something like, "This books has some questionable content on pages...". One of the reasons I chose Core 400 was for the American Lit, thinking that SL would help me. Ha! Not so. If a parent is not familiar with a book, there is no way to discuss it with the student unless the parent reads said book...or buys a separate guide of some kind like Cliff Notes. I don't know if that has changed, but I really felt that SL shortchanged us parents by not offering something to help us teach/discuss with our children the American Lit. SL doesn't believe in analyzing Lit though, which I can completely understand in the younger grades....but high school American Lit?? :confused:

[Mom0012]

No, the Lit books were great!! It was the Bible and Government that was horrid....or so we thought. I honestly do not think my boys learned any actual USEFUL Government that year. It was just so....gosh, I don't even have a word for it! :lol: We had used several SL Cores prior to 400, and we all just really, really disliked that Core in regards to the history and bible.

 

But, the Lit was great! No worries there. I was VERY disappointed that SL didn't offer any type of analysis for the Lit though. No real notes either, except to say something like, "This books has some questionable content on pages...". One of the reasons I chose Core 400 was for the American Lit, thinking that SL would help me. Ha! Not so. If a parent is not familiar with a book, there is no way to discuss it with the student unless the parent reads said book...or buys a separate guide of some kind like Cliff Notes. I don't know if that has changed, but I really felt that SL shortchanged us parents by not offering something to help us teach/discuss with our children the American Lit. SL doesn't believe in analyzing Lit though, which I can completely understand in the younger grades....but high school American Lit?? :confused:

 

Melissa -

 

Thanks for sharing that. Maybe we will just use the lit with some guides and skip the bible and the history when we get to that point (I'm noting all this in my catalog so I don't forget).

 

Lisa

[LuvingLife]

Well, I'm a MFW fan and would say it fits your criteria of rigor, thoroughness, and easy-to-follow. MFW can kind of sneak up on you and you realize you've learned everything you thought you might be missing. And it teaches in a variety of ways, not just reading hard texts & writing essays. I tweaked AHL somewhat for me.

 

I used just one year of Sonlight and found it was rigorous in some ways, thorough in some ways, and easy-to-follow in a few ways. I tweaked the Sonlight year a LOT.

 

I haven't used TOG.

 

How my child liked them? Well, I never homeschooled my oldest, and my younger 2 never really wanted to be in school :tongue_smilie: But I think my youngest, who is using MFW, liked that the first year of high school had a gentle intro to textbooks & essays rather than being buried in them, had some easier days, had some apologetics looking at questions he was starting to ask, had some real-life application to read about, and that mom adapted some things so he could be moving around while he was learning (audiobooks, read-alouds, subbed a few video lectures) :) Most of all, though, he loves reading the Bible and enjoyed having a lot of that -- not reading someone else's workbooks about the Bible, but reading the real Bible, line by line.

 

Julie

 

I have heard that Sonlight was not for independent use which does stink because I do like a lot fo their reading selections, but I am glad that MFW is for independent use and is much cheaper! MFW sounds like what I am looking for and I hope all works out.

 

Thank you!

[LuvingLife]

Well, I'm a MFW fan and would say it fits your criteria of rigor, thoroughness, and easy-to-follow. MFW can kind of sneak up on you and you realize you've learned everything you thought you might be missing. And it teaches in a variety of ways, not just reading hard texts & writing essays. I tweaked AHL somewhat for me.

 

I used just one year of Sonlight and found it was rigorous in some ways, thorough in some ways, and easy-to-follow in a few ways. I tweaked the Sonlight year a LOT.

 

I haven't used TOG.

 

How my child liked them? Well, I never homeschooled my oldest, and my younger 2 never really wanted to be in school :tongue_smilie: But I think my youngest, who is using MFW, liked that the first year of high school had a gentle intro to textbooks & essays rather than being buried in them, had some easier days, had some apologetics looking at questions he was starting to ask, had some real-life application to read about, and that mom adapted some things so he could be moving around while he was learning (audiobooks, read-alouds, subbed a few video lectures) :) Most of all, though, he loves reading the Bible and enjoyed having a lot of that -- not reading someone else's workbooks about the Bible, but reading the real Bible, line by line.

 

Julie

 

I have used SL and TOG, and will be using MFW this fall. MFW is most definitely, without doubt, the more independent of the three. The schedule is written TO the student, with nice little daily notes right there with each week....and not in a HUGE binder like SL's where you have to locate your notes, weed through them, and then find that they really were not helpful at all. :lol:

 

TOG, in my opinion, is not good for independence. It could be, and I found it more so than SL, but it would take a lot of work over the summer getting all of your books decided on, printing out pages from the Loom, etc, to get it to that weekly/daily independent place. You would still need to have a day to discuss with a parent, so your parent would need to read the Teacher's Notes....which are extensive....to prepare for the discussion. So, in reality, TOG can be independent once everything is planned out, but the parents involvement is pretty crucial as well.

 

To me SL is not independent. I know people hand it to their high school student and walk away, but SL was not created for that type of independent schooling. SL is meant to be discussed with the parent and the parent is to be fully involved in the learning process...daily.

 

I have not actually used MFW yet. I have it. It's all ready to go for the fall. But, it's honestly the most independent and easiest to follow of the three. I LOVE their schedule/lesson plans. It's so nicely compact and easy to follow. Love it.

 

They are all three excellent schooling choices and I don't think you can go wrong in regards to rigour with any of them. I have not regreted using them with my boys...well except SL Core 400 which we found gawd awful. I couldn't sell that Core fast enough. :lol:

 

I hope you find what works for YOU!

 

I think MFW is the winner! Lol, after hearing a lot from your reviews I think MFW might just be the one. But I am a little confused about the layout of it I am doing their World history program and lit program for 11th grade, but what would I use for 12th if I were to continue with it? Just a little confused about this if anyone could clear this up for me.

 

Thank you everyone for all of your reviews, they have really helped me make a decision.

[Donna A.]

I think MFW is the winner! Lol, after hearing a lot from your reviews I think MFW might just be the one. But I am a little confused about the layout of it I am doing their World history program and lit program for 11th grade, but what would I use for 12th if I were to continue with it? Just a little confused about this if anyone could clear this up for me.

 

Thank you everyone for all of your reviews, they have really helped me make a decision.

 

Have you called the office to ask them? The answer to this question really depends on so many things.

[Julie in MN]

Have you called the office to ask them? The answer to this question really depends on so many things.

 

:iagree:

 

It would depend on what you've had, and what you want to accomplish that last year. In 11th, you'll get 1/2 credit in American history and 1/2 in government. If you do MFW for 12th, you'll get another 1/2 of US/modern history, and a 1/2 of econ. You might be able to split up that year, if you only want one or the other, but easiest and cheapest would be to do those together.

 

(Plus you'd get Bible and English both years.)

 

Before you call, give some thought to what you've covered and what you want to finish up.

 

Julie

[profmom]

Does MFW give notes for the parents for the weekly discussion? After using TOG (even though I struggled to keep up with all the parent/teacher notes/reading), I'm sold on the need for kids to discuss their literature, history, and worldview. How are the high school discussion notes (including literature) for the parent?

[Julie in MN]

Does MFW give notes for the parents for the weekly discussion? After using TOG (even though I struggled to keep up with all the parent/teacher notes/reading), I'm sold on the need for kids to discuss their literature, history, and worldview. How are the high school discussion notes (including literature) for the parent?

 

MFW high school doesn't have a parent manual. I know what you are saying, but here are my thoughts on that:

 

- in the elementary years, MFW is written for parents to do quite a bit of learning together with their children, so we have a firm foundation for discussion at our house

 

- MFW doesn't analyze everything in detail, which makes my ds very happy :)

 

- MFW does revisit topics from different angles, though, so I think some of that (reinforcement, review, & looking from different perspectives) does happen but sneaks up on you (after using textbook, Usborne, timeline, map, support book or literature, maybe Bible)

 

- I found it pretty easy to discuss what my ds has learned by just flipping open the history encyclopedia and asking what he learned about X, looking thru the AHL manual for Marie Hazell's short topics/questions for the Iliad chapters, checking out the thinking questions in the 3 actual literature studies, reading the Bible together, etc.)

 

- my main experience with extensive teaching notes was the year we did Sonlight and the history notes were interesting but way more than I could keep up on on a daily basis -- might as well have just done the work with my ds and chatted about it, if I were going to spend that kind of time; the literature questions were recall of annoyingly unimportant details at our house

 

- another experience I had with some programs I had or tried (MOH, for example) was being told what to think about something or how to interpret something, and TOG samples I've looked at felt a teeny bit like they might be going in that direction; that's not really for me

 

- TOG notes from what I've heard are largely based on the encyclopedia, which seemed strange to me as far as copyright or whatever, but I'm sure they've worked that out... anyways, we already have an encyclopedia at my house, and we have the internet and lots of other things if I want to read up on something, which we sometimes do together -- very good practice in learning

 

- the first time thru something, I'm not sure how deep to go with a high schooler, as I don't think we need to do a college dissertation on each work, so I do appreciate MFW minimizing some of that (3 works studied in great detail in 9th, others studied more lightly)

 

- I'm not totally picturing how I'd actually use the TOG notes with my child, and whether it would end up much different than the weekly parent meeting already scheduled in MFW, or whether it would be many hours longer than that and cause my child to run away :)

 

 

Just some of my own personal rambling thoughts on that topic... I did use TTC lectures and Sparknotes for the Iliad, and otherwise tweaked MFW for my particular child. I'm sure I'd enjoy TOG notes & questions, too. Maybe I'd even love them!! But MFW might end up being what I'd actually do after I pared down and planned out TOG for our family :)

 

Julie

[cbollin]

Does MFW give notes for the parents for the weekly discussion? After using TOG (even though I struggled to keep up with all the parent/teacher notes/reading), I'm sold on the need for kids to discuss their literature, history, and worldview. How are the high school discussion notes (including literature) for the parent?

 

Do you mean is there an answer key for the parents?

 

in MFW the students get the questions and discussion notes. Parents can read them too.

 

I remember in week 1, there was a check list of things to do in the weekly discussion and starter questions.

 

The notes/questions are in the materials themselves. Sometimes the students will have additional critical thinking questions/thought points in the daily lesson plans.

 

But, there isn't a "fixed" answer key for some of it. The students have to think for themselves and not be fixated on a specific answer that the mfw author might want them to get out of it. That's usually with Bible parts it's like that.

 

on the Literature and Composition Supplement - there are answer keys on the questions. I was able to use that very easily for discussion prompts.

 

I wasn't keeping up with her reading, yet the materials provided kept me on top of what to ask.

 

-crystal

[profmom]

Thanks, Julie & Crystal! My oldest is going into 9th in the fall, so I'm not exactly sure what I'm asking, except that I'm wanting more than just reading through classic books. This year, for example, my dd read Animal Farm with her TPS English 2 class. She, herself, says she would have missed so much about that book if she had just read through it without the class discussion of themes, etc. I'm in a classic book club, and I always appreciate the books more after having our monthly discussion.

[LuvingLife]

:iagree:

 

It would depend on what you've had, and what you want to accomplish that last year. In 11th, you'll get 1/2 credit in American history and 1/2 in government. If you do MFW for 12th, you'll get another 1/2 of US/modern history, and a 1/2 of econ. You might be able to split up that year, if you only want one or the other, but easiest and cheapest would be to do those together.

 

(Plus you'd get Bible and English both years.)

 

Before you call, give some thought to what you've covered and what you want to finish up.

 

Julie

 

Ok thank you very much and I will give them a call just to make sure I am on the right track.

 

Thank you all for your help!:)

[Julie in MN]

Ok thank you very much and I will give them a call just to make sure I am on the right track.

 

Thank you all for your help!:)

 

Let us know how it works out!

[LuvingLife]

I sure will!!!:lol:

[grace4me]

My dd is doing AHL for 10th, WHL for 11th and a combo of the MFW US in 12th. At least that's the plan! I called MFW when we were in the deciding stage - AHL or WHL for 10th - and that is what they recommended for us. I know there will be plenty of support from MFW and the boards when we get there. You are not alone! Good Luck!

[LuvingLife]

My dd is doing AHL for 10th, WHL for 11th and a combo of the MFW US in 12th. At least that's the plan! I called MFW when we were in the deciding stage - AHL or WHL for 10th - and that is what they recommended for us. I know there will be plenty of support from MFW and the boards when we get there. You are not alone! Good Luck!

 

Thank you so much! May I ask what AHL and WHL stand for? I am a little confused.:001_huh:

[Denise in PA]

I am not familiar with the other two history curricula, but am with TOG. We love it! For my teens - one avid book worm and the other an avid math geek - learned strong independent study skills. For most, TOG teaches and encourages children and teen students to think, to organize time, to orally discuss, to write and read many classics, and to discover God's incredible HIStory (not to mention outstanding literature selections and geography). The world view studies for the high school population alone is fantastic. Time doesn't permit us to utilize all the curriculum available, but have stayed the course with the weekly geography, history, world view, some art, and literature assignments. The revised TOG recommends outstanding history core readings that I purchased used online. Students often read from the core books for several weeks (+5 or more). I didn't utilize the local public library much which saved me time. I do assign the questions and readings every Monday - sometimes I tweak them to accommodate our family's busy schedule. Then, every Friday morning we sit in the family room or at the kitchen table and discuss. TOG provides wonderful teacher notes for me to lead enriching discussions. If you stay the course your children learn history and literature analysis tools very effectively. My one teen passed a early civilization CLEP exam last June quite easily having studied TOG year 2 (reviewed some of year 1).

Well, this is just one more take for you.

Wishing you much success!

[Donna A.]

Thank you so much! May I ask what AHL and WHL stand for? I am a little confused.:001_huh:

 

MFW Ancients History & Lit (AHL)

 

and

 

MFW World History & Lit (WHL)

[LuvingLife]

I am not familiar with the other two history curricula, but am with TOG. We love it! For my teens - one avid book worm and the other an avid math geek - learned strong independent study skills. For most, TOG teaches and encourages children and teen students to think, to organize time, to orally discuss, to write and read many classics, and to discover God's incredible HIStory (not to mention outstanding literature selections and geography). The world view studies for the high school population alone is fantastic. Time doesn't permit us to utilize all the curriculum available, but have stayed the course with the weekly geography, history, world view, some art, and literature assignments. The revised TOG recommends outstanding history core readings that I purchased used online. Students often read from the core books for several weeks (+5 or more). I didn't utilize the local public library much which saved me time. I do assign the questions and readings every Monday - sometimes I tweak them to accommodate our family's busy schedule. Then, every Friday morning we sit in the family room or at the kitchen table and discuss. TOG provides wonderful teacher notes for me to lead enriching discussions. If you stay the course your children learn history and literature analysis tools very effectively. My one teen passed a early civilization CLEP exam last June quite easily having studied TOG year 2 (reviewed some of year 1).

Well, this is just one more take for you.

Wishing you much success!

 

TOG does sound like a good curriculum too, but I think MFW might be for me this year, who knows for next year right?;) I do appreciate the review though, it helps me out!:)

[LuvingLife]

MFW Ancients History & Lit (AHL)

 

and

 

MFW World History & Lit (WHL)

 

Ohh, I understand now, thank you for clearing this up!:D