Hi, I am in desperate need of advice in regards to arguing.

[BarbinTN]

I have 4d; 11yog, 7yob, 6yob, 3yog. The girls are not as big of problem as the boys although the 11yog tends to argue some.

 

My boys 6 & 7 argue about everything with me. Especially the 6yob as he argues when he is wrong and knows he is wrong. I could say the sky is blue and he would argue about that! He also doesn't like me to touch, hug or kiss him. His love language is words of affirmation followed by quality time. Since we are not doing school I have tried to spend more individual time with each of them playing board games. Which led me hear as he was arguing the rules of checkers with me. I finally calmly picked up the game and put it up. I told him his punishment for arguing with me was not to play the game.

 

This is an ongoing problem and I notice that my dh and myself EXPLAIN everything to them so as to defend our decisions I guess and I am at a loss as how to fix it. I did have him pick up sticks and/or a giant pile of garden stones (put into wagon and unload again etc) but that got ineffective as 6yob LOVES to be outside. I used hot sauce in years gone by but I am trying to make the punishment fit the crime these days:O) I have spanked all these children and have overused that punishment. I do not have a problem with spanking but again it has become ineffective with the boys as they have gotten older.

 

I also confess to being an angry mother in years gone by. In the last year I have had transformation in this department and do not fly off like a mad woman very often:o( I said that to say that the 6yob reacts angry to me and the 7yob is more compliant. Both I feel are effects from my "angry/yelling" parenting in the past.

 

Any advice for me,

 

Humbled Barb

[Susan in TX]

This is an ongoing problem and I notice that my dh and myself EXPLAIN everything to them so as to defend our decisions I guess and I am at a loss as how to fix it.

 

Stop explaining. Don't be drawn in to the argument. Simply repeat yourself calmly until they stop arguing, or if that is ineffective, say what you need to say, and if they argue, send them to their room and let them come out when they are ready to obey/listen.

 

If what they are arguing with you about is not an obedience issue, just let it go. Your son can believe the sky isn't blue if he wants to:-) He will figure out the truth of the matter soon enough.

 

Susan in TX

[Parrothead]

I'm a bit confused. Are you trying to get your 6-year old to quit arguing with you? Just remember that a one sided argument is basically talking to yourself. That applies to a child too. If you don't comment on his comments then there is no argument.

I finally calmly picked up the game and put it up. I told him his punishment for arguing with me was not to play the game.

That was your best stratedgy. (Sorry that doesn't look spelled correctly any way I type it.) Keep it up. If you don't loose your cool there won't be an argument. As this child gets older you can tell him to research his argument and present it to you in a clam manner. You may have a lawyer in the making.

[WTMindy]

I have 4d; 11yog, 7yob, 6yob, 3yog. The girls are not as big of problem as the boys although the 11yog tends to argue some.

 

My boys 6 & 7 argue about everything with me. Especially the 6yob as he argues when he is wrong and knows he is wrong. I could say the sky is blue and he would argue about that! He also doesn't like me to touch, hug or kiss him. His love language is words of affirmation followed by quality time. Since we are not doing school I have tried to spend more individual time with each of them playing board games. Which led me hear as he was arguing the rules of checkers with me. I finally calmly picked up the game and put it up. I told him his punishment for arguing with me was not to play the game.

 

This is an ongoing problem and I notice that my dh and myself EXPLAIN everything to them so as to defend our decisions I guess and I am at a loss as how to fix it. I did have him pick up sticks and/or a giant pile of garden stones (put into wagon and unload again etc) but that got ineffective as 6yob LOVES to be outside. I used hot sauce in years gone by but I am trying to make the punishment fit the crime these days:O) I have spanked all these children and have overused that punishment. I do not have a problem with spanking but again it has become ineffective with the boys as they have gotten older.

 

I also confess to being an angry mother in years gone by. In the last year I have had transformation in this department and do not fly off like a mad woman very often:o( I said that to say that the 6yob reacts angry to me and the 7yob is more compliant. Both I feel are effects from my "angry/yelling" parenting in the past.

 

Any advice for me,

 

Humbled Barb

 

Refuse to be drawn into the argument with him. Talk to him when it is not the heat of the moment and tell him that he is not allowed to argue (teach him how to respectfully ask a question) and if he argues say, "You may not argue with me. If you continue to argue now there will be a consequence." Then follow through. My ds pushes the limits on this with me too. And, at times, I let him do it, and then I remember that I don't have to. :001_smile: And I start following through and he gets better. I find he pushes as far as I let him.

[BarbinTN]

Thank you! I did repeat myself during the checker game until I had to put it up or BLOW UP!

[BarbinTN]

Are you trying to get your 6-year old to quit arguing with you? Just remember that a one sided argument is basically talking to yourself. That applies to a child too. If you don't comment on his comments then there is no argument.

 

 

You may have a lawyer in the making

 

*This is not a stradegy I have thought of. I could just walk away and leaving him talking to himself. That would definately throw him for a loop.

Aaah, a lawyer, now that is insight!!!

 

Thanks for taking the time to share!!!!

[BarbinTN]

Any ideas for a consequence? Even since I wrote this we had another issue. He was digging around in my church bag which is beside my purse and I told him it was rude to rummage through other people's things. He responded with, "No it's not!"

[melissel]

Any ideas for a consequence? Even since I wrote this we had another issue. He was digging around in my church bag which is beside my purse and I told him it was rude to rummage through other people's things. He responded with, "No it's not!"

 

LOL! I know it's not funny, really, but you have to at least laugh at the persistence!

 

In this case, I would respond, "OK, let me rephrase that. You MAY NOT rummage through other people's things," and put the bag away.

 

ITA about stating your case (instruction, reason, explanation, whatever) and then ignoring whatever else comes after (which is easier said than done, I know). Be aware that he will follow you around and keep talking, at least for awhile. If you hold your ground and keep ignoring the arguing, he'll eventually get the picture.

 

I think part of it is the age, too, and I feel for you. I have an almost-6-year-old negotiator on my hands these days. I finally explained to her that some things are simply not negotiable, and that not EVERYTHING needs an explanation. Sometimes I simply need her to do as I asked without a whole story behind it. Funny, when she was a little, the explanations served to elicit compliance. As long as she had an explanation for why something needed to happen or be done, she was happy to go right along, and I was happy to explain why the household and world worked the way they do. Now the explanations seem to be an invitation to debate!

[Susan in TX]

Any ideas for a consequence? Even since I wrote this we had another issue. He was digging around in my church bag which is beside my purse and I told him it was rude to rummage through other people's things. He responded with, "No it's not!"

 

Hmmm....this sounds like back-talking to me and would result in being sent to one's room until one could be respectful.

 

Susan in TX

[Philothea]

With my children, I try different things to see what works- in other words what really gets under their skin.

 

One of my children likes to be alone, so going to the room is not punishment. She usually sits in the most boring corner, in the same room as everyone else.

 

My son hates to be alone, so sending him to his room is a punishment and he loathes it.

 

I think rephrasing your statements to make them unarguable is a great idea. "People who go through other's things will lose dessert for a week." instead of "It's not nice to go through my stuff."

[BarbinTN]

I finish most of my sentences with, YES MAAM?! Implying that they should say yes maam. I still get arguing.

 

Hmmm....this sounds like back-talking to me and would result in being sent to one's room until one could be respectful.

 

Susan in TX

[WTMindy]

I finish most of my sentences with, YES MAAM?! Implying that they should say yes maam. I still get arguing.

 

At that age, in my house, that would have received a spanking. (Don't mean to start a debate on the merits of spanking, just answering as to how we discipline.) To me the example that you used is more than arguing, it is disrespect. That is a fairly serious offense in our house. Arguing is persistently trying to change my mind. At this point, I would let him know that since he was rude to me, he can make it up by doing something nice for me like cleaning all the baseboards in the house (or something un-fun like that).

[Laura K (NC)]

My kids have an easy life. They have so many liberties, but they don't have the liberty to raise their voice against their parents or question our authority. They can question our decisions respectfully, but not our authority. Enforcing this doesn't require anger at all, just a simple removal of some of their many liberties. If they show disrespect, I will follow them around and hound them like a tyrant. I do make mistakes sometimes, and I don't always do the best job in parenting, but whatever I say must hold, and my kids have to trust my authority or the whole parental system breaks down. My boys can question each other and their friends, but they will show respect to my husband and me and to other adults who care for them.

 

If my boys fight with each other then we give physical punishment like sit-ups, push-ups, jumping jacks, and so on. The punishment for arguing with my husband or me is different. It's swift, lasting, and designed to nip any attitude directly in the bud. I must say four things with this:

1. My kids do trust me and my husband. We have good lines of communication and we have good discussions about family rules and values, etc. This discussion, which does sometimes involve a difference of opinion, works better as kids get older. For example, my oldest son (almost 15) doesn't agree with my husband and me on our dating rules, but he voices his arguments rationally, not emotionally. His ability to show himself an adult in this will go a long way towards our trust in him in future things, and life will go more easily for him as he gets older.

2. My husband backs me up, and I back him up.

3. We are not capricious with our punishment -- the kids really do know what to expect from us, and we work very hard to be consistent.

4. My kids are some of the most respectful kids I know, and they are (usually!) a source of pride to my husband and me.

[BarbinTN]

Well, I actually I did spank him b/c I didn't know what else to do. I have 2 different spank rods. One is a wooden spoon and the more severe is a pvc pipe. He cried but not with tears of repentence. I told him next time would be more severe. I really, really, really need to find what works. Spanking has never worked for the boys but I have done it to keep from killing them. It makes me feel better knowing I have done what the Bible says (when I don't do it in anger) however again I have used it in excess thus it is ineffective. Actually, they hardly ever get spankings anymore but when I did give them I felt they were ineffective.

Rambling!

Barb

[Laura K (NC)]

At that age, in my house, that would have received a spanking.

That's what we used to do when my boys were younger. My youngest son is now 11 and weighs about 125 pounds, so spanking isn't the best option anymore. This particular son was the least respectful when he was younger and so he got the most spankings. His disrespect included deception as well as backtalk.

 

Persistence! As they get older they eventually get the right idea about how to treat parents and other adults!

[BarbinTN]

You know the 7yob got the MOST spankings when they were little/little and he is the most obedient now. However, he has his moments with arguing as well but the bulk of issues is with the 6yob. I have said often that perhaps I didn't spank him enough when was little:o)

[Chris in VA]

I really feel for you, Barb. As a parent whose child lost all respect for her authority, I can say you have an uphill climb ahead of you--but keep going, because your child needs you to be his authority.

I also had anger issues at one time--dd has a different mommy than ds' did when they were little. We all grow.

I think the Biblical admonition really means if you spare the discipline, your child will turn out rotten! But it doesn't have to be spanking (not debating here)--after all, what are you going to do when they get bigger than you?

I applaud you for seeking out other strategies. You've gotten good advice--I, too, would refuse to engage, start learning to rephrase, and maybe give that dear little boy more to do to work off some of his grouchy energy.

[WTMindy]

You know the 7yob got the MOST spankings when they were little/little and he is the most obedient now. However, he has his moments with arguing as well but the bulk of issues is with the 6yob. I have said often that perhaps I didn't spank him enough when was little:o)

 

I no longer spank my 9yo because I find other things work better with him now. I do think it is the consistency without anger (very very hard) that makes the difference in the long run. Does he respond the same to your dh or is it just to you? Maybe you might try turning the discipline of this over to dh for a while. Sometimes it help to have a father train a boy how to speak respectfully to a woman.

[LaurainKs]

You've gotten some good responses here! I would also chime in with trying hard to catch when he is arguing instead of obeying, as that is non-negotiable in my book, and I'm sure yours as well! He's smart, so when it's not an issue of obeying, could you challenge him to prove what he's talking about? Like with the checkers, get out the rules and read them. Perhaps before playing a game agree that playing a game means following the rules, and if he doesn't want to follow the rules, then put the game up (as you did), but no arguing allowed. And, he may be too young for this, but perhaps there will be opportunities to teach the difference between a fact and an opinion? Facts are not up for arguing, and opinions are to be shared, not forced on everyone else.

Just some thoughts!

Laura

p.s. I would like to add that in our house, respect is of the utmost importance. It is required that we get a respectful answer first, be that "yes mom", or whatever, and then they may ask a question or express an opinion ("may I finish this first?") Truly, if you aren't getting obedience from him, then that is where you must start, and I would suggest you let him know things are going to be different, and then hang on as he will no doubt try you for a time to see if you are serious.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I haven't read any other suggestions and I'm going to try to keep this short. These are the stages we used in our home and I've suggested to other families online and IRL.

 

1) young children need simply to say your family's equivalent of "yes ma'am" as they move to comply. IF they don't, simply say, "the answer is yes ma'am" as you lead them towards what they need to do.

 

2) after they have that part down, they can start "arguing" their point AFTER they comply such as, "mom, next time can I finish the chapter first?" That is your reminder to be respectful as well as a way for you to put a condition on it such as "as soon as you finish that chapter, please take out the garbage."

 

3) come up with a cue so if the above happens, kid has a way out in the moment while you teach kid how to broach these types of things (and others) appropriately.

 

By this time, kid is usually AT LEAST 6, if not closer to 8, depending on kiddo. It takes time. But it's worth encouraging first time compliance AND teaching them to "argue" appropriately.

 

BTW, if there is an issue, it's often helpful to go back to step one temporarily and work back up.

 

HTHs a little,

[Pamela H in Texas]

I think the Biblical admonition really means if you spare the discipline, your child will turn out rotten!

 

Yep. That isn't to say, for sure, they won't anyway. They have free choice. However, kids that are well DISCIPLINED (not just punished or ignored or allowed to carry on or confused by inconsistency) have a LOT better chance.

 

But I really don't think every parent whose had issues with a kiddo can blame themselves. At some point, kiddo is big enough to make choices for themselves. My mom really struggled with this and it saddened me. I mean, seriously, by the time my brother was 23, he could have dealt with the legal issues, gotten back in touch with family, etc, right? He didn't HAVE to run in the first place even. My parents weren't perfect. In fact, far from it. But at some point, WE took over.

[BarbinTN]

Wow guys, you have been so generous to me to give of your time today. I don't feel that I can respond individually to all you but I do want to thank you for giving me some great ideas. And to the gal who mentioned my dh-ds does NOT act like that with him!

Blessings,

Barb

[OhM]

I also confess to being an angry mother in years gone by. In the last year I have had transformation in this department and do not fly off like a mad woman very often

 

Barb,

Thanks for sharing this. I struggle with this, too, but it's getting worse as 13yo exhibits (typical 13yo!) defiance. Thanks for showing that I can transform! I'd love to learn what helped you to overcome these issues, if you wouldn't mind pm'ing me.

[Mad Jenny Flint]

We have had many issues with my 9 yodd in this area over the years. While it has improved immensely, she is still one to argue and debate, plead, etc. So, when I see this happening- meaning, after the first questioning response, if she continues, she is sent to time out for 9 minutes. This has been super-effective because my nerves do not get worn to tiny nubs, and she comes back (usually) with a much nicer, more respectful attitude.

 

You have gotten a lot of good advice. I know how frustrating it can be. Just remember you hold the power. Don't give it away.