History ala WTM in the logic stage

[brownie]

Help me out. I've re-read WTM many times but it's still not making sense to me how the work should be organized for history in the logic stage.

 

1) There is "facts writing", narration and outlining. What resource do you use for each of these? and why might help bc it's just not making logical sense to me.

 

2) ds would sure like to continue with SOTW, although I also bought the Usborne Internet Linked Encyc and the Natl Geographic book she recommends. Does anyone incorporate SOTW and what do you do with it then?

Brownie

[redsquirrel]

In my edition, the latest one, on page 278 in TWTM it has a section entitled 'How to do it." It gives 6 steps of history that should happen every week. You will need at least one 'spine' such as an encyclopedia and then access to other topical books, either at home or at the library.

 

Step 1: reading assignment in encyclopedia make a list of 6 facts. These are facts that are of interest to the student. They should be in complete sentences and in the students own words.

 

Step 2:Mark important dates on the timeline.

 

Step 3: Look it up on the map

 

Step 4 and 5: (put together in the book, on page 280) extra reading on one of the topics the student outlined (that is step 4) and write a narration of the reading (that is step 5)

 

Step 6: A one point outline. Chose one page of text (approx 250 words, 5 or 6 paragraphs) and make a one point outline.

 

We personally do steps 1-3 on Monday, 4 and 5 on Thursday and 6 on Fridays.

 

SWB does not reccomend using SOTW for outlining because it is too narrative. One should also not outline fiction. It should be a nonfiction book on one of the topics.

 

Some people use another general history book instead of SOTW, written more to the age of middle school students, for their narration and outlining. I have used Human Odysses and some of the Oxford History of the Ancient World books as well as various biographies.

 

If you do a search in this forum on history you will find quite a few discussions about different sources used. But, you don't need to spend a lot of money. You could go to the library every week and chose a couple books to read. It is very simple and works for us very well.

[Capt_Uhura]

Here's my understanding. You use something like Kingfisher Encyclopedia for your "just the facts." These are put on your timeline. If there is a famous battle, or person or invention, you write a summary sentence or two and put in the relevant section of your history notebook. Then DC finds something interesting from the pages in Kingfisher to research. For example, you use World in Ancient Times book on China to further research textiles. DC would outline a few pages on textiles. You begin to rewrite from that outline and write a summary of what he learned.

 

My 2nd grader is using SOTW so my 5th grader is listening to it again with us. He doesn't do anything else with it.

 

Some folks get their feet wet w/ the History Odyssey level 2. You can download the try it before you buy it which gets you about 8 weeks of material. It's not as open as WTM method ie DC doesn't choose what to research it tells you to write a summary paragraph about Hammurabi, for example. It also has you outlining Kingfisher but I find Kingfisher difficult to outline since it's already distilled down to the important facts.

[redsquirrel]

I wanted to add, that I do use SOTW as my guide for assignments. I have two kids, one doing logic stage work the other grammar. They like to be doing about the same thing at the same time. So, every week, I just check in the SOTW activity guide and look at the assigned pages in Kingfisher or Usborne or whatever, I have them all at this point, and I have my older son read those pages for his '6 facts' assignment. It makes things work very well.

 

I have had no problem finding reading that match up to the weekly encyclopedia assignments. It has worked out very well.

[Mommyfaithe]

I wanted to add, that I do use SOTW as my guide for assignments. I have two kids, one doing logic stage work the other grammar. They like to be doing about the same thing at the same time. So, every week, I just check in the SOTW activity guide and look at the assigned pages in Kingfisher or Usborne or whatever, I have them all at this point, and I have my older son read those pages for his '6 facts' assignment. It makes things work very well.

 

I have had no problem finding reading that match up to the weekly encyclopedia assignments. It has worked out very well.

 

We do this as well. We do SOTW all together...then dd uses kingfisher for her outlining. We do the geography, coloring and narrations plus read alouds and extra readers from the AG. It has kept us busy and learning for several years now.

 

Faithe

[Jane Elliot]

I wanted to add, that I do use SOTW as my guide for assignments. I have two kids, one doing logic stage work the other grammar. They like to be doing about the same thing at the same time. So, every week, I just check in the SOTW activity guide and look at the assigned pages in Kingfisher or Usborne or whatever, I have them all at this point, and I have my older son read those pages for his '6 facts' assignment. It makes things work very well.

 

I have had no problem finding reading that match up to the weekly encyclopedia assignments. It has worked out very well.

 

So when you are using Human Odyssey, are you using it for reading to match up to the encyclopedia assignments? Do you use just selections from Human Odyssey, or do you have your dc read straight through HO? I'm trying to figure out how to schedule next year with a few using SOTW and a few using Human Odyssey. Thanks.

[redsquirrel]

So when you are using Human Odyssey, are you using it for reading to match up to the encyclopedia assignments? Do you use just selections from Human Odyssey, or do you have your dc read straight through HO? I'm trying to figure out how to schedule next year with a few using SOTW and a few using Human Odyssey. Thanks.

 

I have the reading from Human Odyssey match up to the encyclopedia readings. That means that I bop around in the book. I know others do it differently. I don't know that it matters. Some people are huge fans of the book and feel very strongly that it's 'flow' should be preserved. I honestly didn't notice any problems. But, YMMV.

 

I usually found a chapter that closely corresponded to the encyclopedia section very well. Then I would have my son read the entire chapter and do a narration on a specific subchapter. Sometimes, I would pick the section for narration, sometimes he would ask to do a particular section.

 

On outline day, I have him read reread a subchapter from that same chapter he has already read. However, it is NOT the same subchapter he narrated. He does a one level outline. For months, I had him do it orally to me before he wrote it down. He would read the single paragraph and then we would talk about the main point and then he would write it down. Now, he does it mostly on his own. I still sometimes do it with him.

 

When we move to a two level outline, I expect to do it with him orally for months.

 

For year 1 in the cycle, I used The Kingfisher Book of the Ancient World as my spine encyclopedia. I did have to dip into the 'regular' kingfisher or a Useborne internet linked on occasion but 90% of the time it has been the Book of the Ancient World.

 

Next year we move to medieval history. I can't find a specific encyclopedia for just that time period. So, we are going to be giving Pandia Press a try. I am going to start with the "try before you buy' option and really get a feel for it. If it doesn't work for us, I will continue on with how we did it this year.

 

The Oxford "The World in Ancient Times" series of books are also great. I used Prehistory, Egypt, Greece and Rome this year. Many public libraries own them. I could have used only them all this past year as well. There is no way you could go through all of them in a year though. There is something like 7 books and there are 25 chapters per book.

[Aubrey]

We're going to use the Oxford series & fill in w/ SOTW as needed. I've divided ea book in the Oxford series into weekly lessons, so we're reading them simultaneously, chronologically.

 

We're not specifically using Kingfisher, but we usually go back & look for extra info there when the topic is particularly interesting.

[Capt_Uhura]

We're using K12 Human Odyssey. We will be outlining from that as well as the World in Ancient Times. I'm playing it by ear as far as the order. Sadly, I'm still in the Try It Before You Buy it stage w/ History Odyssey. IT doesn't match up perfectly but good enough. We're mostly reading Human ODyssey as written but will need to re-read sections at time to correlate w/ History Odyssey.

[brownie]

OK - so I'm starting to get the why/how of the 6 facts because I don't like how choppy Usborne is, but I guess it will work for facts. DS wanted Usborne, not me :)

 

It sounds like you are all narrating and outlining the same source then later in the week? I thought the narration should be on the topic as a whole, as we've always done with SOTW. I may still do that.

 

I don't see how it's possible to let the child research a topic of interest and get to the library in time to have him work on it by Tuesday. So I think I will be choosing topics the previous week to have the books ready in time. Or since I have the Natl Geog resource, which is written essay style, we can use that in the absence of other resources.

 

Brownie

[Surfside Academy]

SWB does not reccomend using SOTW for outlining because it is too narrative. One should also not outline fiction. It should be a nonfiction book on one of the topics.

 

 

So, would The World in Ancient Times be a good source to outline? I was planning on using these along with SOTW & the Kingfisher Encyclopedia.

[Carol in Cal.]

So, would The World in Ancient Times be a good source to outline? I was planning on using these along with SOTW & the Kingfisher Encyclopedia.

 

I think that the best place to start with outlining is with the old white Kingfisher. This is the one copyrighted in 1993. It's more fleshed out than the newer editions, so it doesn't sound like an outline already as they do. It's wonderful for this, really unparalleled. Once they have learned outlining, I don't see any reason not to outline SOTW. But I wouldn't start with that--it would be too difficult.

[Stacy in NJ]

Monday: Read and outline two pages from Kingfisher or Usborne. We coordinate our encyclopedia with SOTW using the AG.

 

Wednesday: Read one or two sections from SOTW, answer comprehension questions from SOTW AG, write a 4-6 sentence narration/summary of reading.

 

Friday: Repeat Monday's assignment with the next section(s) from SOTW. Compete timeline or mapwork. We complete one chapter per week.

 

Additionally, he'll be reading concurrently either a related literature or non-fiction selection. We alternate relevant fiction selections. We're in Middle Ages this year, so he's read Beowulf, King Arthur, Robin Hood, and more (obviously). I alternate this selection with non-fiction books like the Genevieve Foster books.

 

For example, this week, this is his assignment:

 

Monday: Read pages 302-303 in Usborne, outline (two level). Read pages 50-57 from The World of Columbus and Sons (this is our non-fiction selection).

 

Wednesday: Read pages 349-352 from SOTW (chapter 36, The Spread of the Reformation). Answer questions (with mom) from the AG. Write a narration of reading. Read pages 57-64 in The World of Columbus and Sons and discuss with mom.

 

Friday: Read pages 352-354 from SOTW (The Council of Trent), answer comprehension questions from AG, complete mapwork (from AG) and timeline. Read pages 65-71 in The World of Columbus and Sons and discuss with mom.

 

We haven't consistently gotten out timeline done. I've had a hard time finding one I like to use.

 

Next year we'll add in writing a summary report from the outlines he writes and get our act together with a good timeline. I may add in an additional day of history to accomplish this. I prefer a lighter work load over more days rather than more work over fewer days.

 

ETA: All of his reading is done independently. I don't read SOTW aloud with him; we did that in grammar stage.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Stacy in NJ

[Surfside Academy]

I think that the best place to start with outlining is with the old white Kingfisher. This is the one copyrighted in 1993. It's more fleshed out than the newer editions, so it doesn't sound like an outline already as they do. It's wonderful for this, really unparalleled. Once they have learned outlining, I don't see any reason not to outline SOTW. But I wouldn't start with that--it would be too difficult.

 

I have the old Kingfisher sitting on my shelf! I had completely forgot about that one. I was worried that my son might get overwhelmed having to read & outline TWIAT so this is probably a much better fit.

[redsquirrel]

We did outline the world in ancient times.

 

I don't have him narrate the Human Odyssey chapter as a whole because the chapter is just too darn long. A subchapter in Human Odyssey can be as long as a chapter in SOTW.

 

If we narrated a chapter in The World in Ancient Times, I might have him narrate the whole chapter.

[Susie in CA]

Here is a history sample from us. This represents two weeks worth of work. We follow this basic routine, but things do change depending on books and activities available as well as time.

 

I. Read the Story of US chapter 17: “The Next Voyageâ€

II. Read Oh California, chapter 2 Lesson 3: Life at Inland Villages

A. Describe how California Indians prepared Acorns

B. Do activity “Reviewing Skills†on page 53

III. Read “Conquerers of North Africa†in Usborne Book, page 260

A. List facts.

B. Record dates on Timeline

C. Record Sultan Baibars in “Men and Women†section

D. Color in Geography Coloring Book

IV. Read “Cities of East Africa†in Usborne Book page 261

A. List facts.

B. Record dates on Timeline

C. Record King Lalibela in “Men and Women†Section

D. Read “The Story behind Goldâ€

E. Project: Kikuyu Initiation Shied

F. Color in Geography Coloring Book

V. Play Settera-Africa

 

 

I. Read the Story of Us chapter 18: “Stowaways: Worms and Dogsâ€

A. Map – Columbus

II. Read “Kingdoms of West Africa†in Usborne Book pages 262-263

A. List facts.

B. Record dates on timeline.

C. Record Mansa Musa in the “Men and Women†Section.

III. Read SOTW chapter 29: African Kingdoms

A. Outline a couple of pages

B. Complete SOTW Map

C. Read “The Story of Saltâ€

D. Projects: Make Salt Blocks, Make Gold Nuggets, Play the Fast Tax Game

[helena]

I think that the best place to start with outlining is with the old white Kingfisher. This is the one copyrighted in 1993. It's more fleshed out than the newer editions, so it doesn't sound like an outline already as they do. It's wonderful for this, really unparalleled. Once they have learned outlining, I don't see any reason not to outline SOTW. But I wouldn't start with that--it would be too difficult.

 

Carol, Is this the right book?

http://www.amazon.com/Kingfisher-Illustrated-History-World-Present/dp/1856978621/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1305047347&sr=1-1

[Jane Elliot]

I have the reading from Human Odyssey match up to the encyclopedia readings. That means that I bop around in the book. I know others do it differently. I don't know that it matters. Some people are huge fans of the book and feel very strongly that it's 'flow' should be preserved. I honestly didn't notice any problems. But, YMMV.

 

I usually found a chapter that closely corresponded to the encyclopedia section very well. Then I would have my son read the entire chapter and do a narration on a specific subchapter. Sometimes, I would pick the section for narration, sometimes he would ask to do a particular section.

 

On outline day, I have him read reread a subchapter from that same chapter he has already read. However, it is NOT the same subchapter he narrated. He does a one level outline. For months, I had him do it orally to me before he wrote it down. He would read the single paragraph and then we would talk about the main point and then he would write it down. Now, he does it mostly on his own. I still sometimes do it with him.

 

When we move to a two level outline, I expect to do it with him orally for months.

 

For year 1 in the cycle, I used The Kingfisher Book of the Ancient World as my spine encyclopedia. I did have to dip into the 'regular' kingfisher or a Useborne internet linked on occasion but 90% of the time it has been the Book of the Ancient World.

 

Next year we move to medieval history. I can't find a specific encyclopedia for just that time period. So, we are going to be giving Pandia Press a try. I am going to start with the "try before you buy' option and really get a feel for it. If it doesn't work for us, I will continue on with how we did it this year.

 

The Oxford "The World in Ancient Times" series of books are also great. I used Prehistory, Egypt, Greece and Rome this year. Many public libraries own them. I could have used only them all this past year as well. There is no way you could go through all of them in a year though. There is something like 7 books and there are 25 chapters per book.

 

Wow. Thank you so much for this very detailed and very helpful answer. I appreciate it a lot!

[redsquirrel]

So, would The World in Ancient Times be a good source to outline? I was planning on using these along with SOTW & the Kingfisher Encyclopedia.

 

I haven't looked at that book as a possibility. I am under the impression it is written for an older audience. I am planning to use it as a high school resource.

[Carol in Cal.]

Carol, Is this the right book?

http://www.amazon.com/Kingfisher-Illustrated-History-World-Present/dp/1856978621/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1305047347&sr=1-1

 

Yes, that's it.