Can we talk about discipline?

[mo2]

We're in the process of evaluations for my almost 4yo. So far diagnosed with SPD (sensory seeking, tactile defensiveness) but we have more evaluations yet to come. In the meantime, does anyone have book recs or anything to help with discipline? The normal stuff doesn't seem to work. Time out has no effect. Taking things away just makes his rage even more intense. I don't want to go into a whole lot of detail and share our life story here, but just wondered if anyone had any tips that helped them with discipline?

[PeterPan]

You're starting OT? They will have some things for you to do when he's like that. My dd nursed for a long time, so that gave me another way to calm her. Also I used a product called Calm Child, an herbal tincture from the health food store. Sounds terrible, but it bought us peace. Our SLP says the kids always get worse in the winter, that the fresh air, sunshine, and time outside are vital. In other words, I'd use changes in his environment and physical state to improve compliance.

 

If it's any consolation, after a pretty challenging first child, I now have a relatively easy, calm, opposite 2nd child. You just never know.

 

As far as actual books on discipline, we're christians, so we hold to something more in the Tedd Tripp, Shepherding a Child's Heart line of thinking. Sears is non-spanking but also good, showing you more how to talk to them and live peaceably together. Problem is, none of the books I've read like that understand the physical side or the intensity, and it CAN get to be overmuch. As I mature, I find myself requiring less and redirecting a lot more. Unfortunately, that doesn't teach self-discipline. Equally unfortunately, some kids aren't going to have the wherewithall to exhibit a lot of self-discipline, since these physical things are beyond their control. In other words, you grow into it. I don't have a good answer. Even G*d's kids went astray, so at this point I've given up hope of having my attempts turn out perfectly, lol.

[rafiki]

.

[mo2]

Thanks for your response.

 

You're starting OT? They will have some things for you to do when he's like that.

 

We're actually done with OT. Four visits, that's it. The OT started us on a brushing protocol, a toileting schedule, encouraged the use of a visual schedule and timer, lots of time for transitions, things like that. It has been helpful in some respects but I'm still looking for more help with discipline.

 

Our SLP says the kids always get worse in the winter, that the fresh air, sunshine, and time outside are vital. In other words, I'd use changes in his environment and physical state to improve compliance.

 

I believe this. We try to get outside every day.

 

If it's any consolation, after a pretty challenging first child, I now have a relatively easy, calm, opposite 2nd child. You just never know.

 

My first one was the easy child. ;)

 

QUOTE]

[PeterPan]

You need a new OT. There's way more they could have done for you. They diagnosed SPD? Does he have other problems? No continuing therapy to work on vestibular or ANYTHING???

 

Have you read The Out of Sync Child, The Out of Sync Child has Fun, etc.? I guess what I'm saying is that for us discipline involves getting through the physical problems to get to the layer where we can deal with volition.

 

BTW, I'm not trying to cut you off on the discipline thing. The Tedd Tripp book and the books by Sears are it for me. I'm just not into the other stuff. I read those for the two sides of the coin and then I try to look at my kid.

Edited March 8, 2011 by OhElizabeth

[Reya]

When I have an answer for every situation, I'll let you know. ;)

 

You have to find something the kid actually wants to avoid and then the kid has to have the self-control to modify his behavior. If you only have one wing, you're not flying anywhere!

 

Natural consequences are well and good for 99% of kids. But for 1%, you sometimes have to get inventive. If they don't mind what happens when they're inappropriate, they don't have the motivation to slow down long enough to get moral lessons to sink in.

 

That goes for EVERY kid.

 

I think just about every parenting style will be a failure for SOME kid, though.

[Reya]

Specifically for your case, wrapping her tightly in a blanket or applying deep pressure with one side of your body on a bed might help if she cannot control herself and the source is serious SPD. This isn't to restrict breathing or anytihng insane--it isn't even that much to restrict movement directly but to give enough sensory feedback that self-regulating measures can have some ability to kick on.

 

Don't have SPD going on here, but I do have an extreme sensory-seeking kid, and sometimes, a leg over her body is the only way to get her calm enough to sleep. It's kinda like swaddling a baby! Same brain chemicals get kicked off.

 

(She's actually easy to discipline. She's just hard to keep ALIVE!!!! Did you know that a strong 2-year-old laughs a childproof medicine bottles? Did you know that some climb really, really well? I had to buy a combination safe online!)

[Renee in NC]

I don't discipline for the rage at all, here, but neither do I allow it. I will tell him to knock it off if I think he is playing it up or restrain him if he is a danger to himself or others. He has permission to hide under a blanket in my room if he needs to, but he can't abuse it. He cannot hold the rest of us "hostage" with his rage.

 

Maybe give me some specific behaviors that you are trying to modify and I might be able to help. My ds is pretty "normal" most days since he has been medicated, but we spent 9 years with a hyposensitive kid with many other issues that *wasn't* medicated!

[mo2]

You need a new OT. There's way more they could have done for you. They diagnosed SPD? Does he have other problems? No continuing therapy to work on vestibular or ANYTHING???

 

Here's the deal: Small town. Only 1 OT that works with kids. And after we started seeing her, we discovered that she generally only works through the school district with the ps kids but she has recently gotten a contract to do sensory evaluations and therapy at the hospital. So they have no equipment for kids, just one small room with some toys and a bin of rice, beans, etc. I would LIKE to get more OT for him but I don't know where to go and if my insurance will cover it since he's already been seen and discharged from OT, you know?

 

She is a very sweet lady and has helped us a lot but you can really tell she is in the ps mindset. Things she says often start with, "I have my teachers do this..." Which is great, but I'm NOT a teacher, I'm a parent. I'm not trying to get through a 7-hour day, I'm trying to get through a lifetime.

 

Have you read The Out of Sync Child, The Out of Sync Child has Fun, etc.? I guess what I'm saying is that for us discipline involves getting through the physical problems to get to the layer where we can deal with volition.

 

I have read The Out of Sync Child and Sensational Kids. The Out of Sync Child Has Fun is on my list so I can obtain some more ideas of what to actually DO, whereas the other books focus mainly on understand the disorder.

 

 

 

When I have an answer for every situation, I'll let you know. ;)

.

 

Please do! :001_smile:

 

I don't discipline for the rage at all, here, but neither do I allow it. I will tell him to knock it off if I think he is playing it up or restrain him if he is a danger to himself or others. He has permission to hide under a blanket in my room if he needs to, but he can't abuse it. He cannot hold the rest of us "hostage" with his rage.

 

Maybe give me some specific behaviors that you are trying to modify and I might be able to help. My ds is pretty "normal" most days since he has been medicated, but we spent 9 years with a hyposensitive kid with many other issues that *wasn't* medicated!

 

Renee, I'm coming back to this because I'm short on time. Thanks!

[PeterPan]

Pick a therapy like Interactive Metronome or Listening Therapy that is commonly done by OTs who deal with a lot of SPD and do searches on their websites. Is there a children's hospital within a 2 hour drive? I found a good book at the library a while back on homeschooling the SN child, and one of the things they tossed out was to look for practitioners who are open to a homework model. So many are money-driven, used to parents who don't want to or don't have time to do anything, just let the professionals do it, etc. You're in a position to go to someone farther away but just go once or twice a month. Then have them give you tons of homework, an hour a day, things you can do at home to help him. You can rig up at home things to replicate what they do at therapy. At therapy my dd did vestibular input on a single line swing while wearing a weighted collar. I made a weighted collar with beans ($3) and dh set up a single line swing out in the yard. The therapist had her doing weights, activities for proprioception, etc., I bought the weights. On and on. Honestly, for us there is something amazing that happens when dd does her list of activities. She does hers at night before bed, because they wear her out. The next day she wakes up better and is more focused. The OT said it moves their stim level. My dd is low stim, and it visibly perks her up the next day.

 

So yes, be willing to drive farther to get better help. You don't have to do this every week, despite what they say. It would be nice, but you can make do with less frequency and more homework.

[mo2]

Pick a therapy like Interactive Metronome or Listening Therapy that is commonly done by OTs who deal with a lot of SPD and do searches on their websites. Is there a children's hospital within a 2 hour drive? I found a good book at the library a while back on homeschooling the SN child, and one of the things they tossed out was to look for practitioners who are open to a homework model. So many are money-driven, used to parents who don't want to or don't have time to do anything, just let the professionals do it, etc. You're in a position to go to someone farther away but just go once or twice a month. Then have them give you tons of homework, an hour a day, things you can do at home to help him. You can rig up at home things to replicate what they do at therapy. At therapy my dd did vestibular input on a single line swing while wearing a weighted collar. I made a weighted collar with beans ($3) and dh set up a single line swing out in the yard. The therapist had her doing weights, activities for proprioception, etc., I bought the weights. On and on. Honestly, for us there is something amazing that happens when dd does her list of activities. She does hers at night before bed, because they wear her out. The next day she wakes up better and is more focused. The OT said it moves their stim level. My dd is low stim, and it visibly perks her up the next day.

 

So yes, be willing to drive farther to get better help. You don't have to do this every week, despite what they say. It would be nice, but you can make do with less frequency and more homework.

 

 

Thanks. We have an appointment for autism screening at a children's hospital that is maybe 2-1/2 or 3 hrs away. I am going to see what they come up with at their evaluation before I do anything else. I'm sure they have a good OT dept there that maybe they will refer us to.

 

Not sure what Interactive Metronome is but I'm going to google. :)

[PeterPan]

Perfect, now you're in the right vein. Hopefully that eval will open up a ton for you. I was going to ask if he was getting eval'ed by a psychologist, neuropsych, or anyone to find out what is really going on. Sounds like you are. I hope it helps you sort through things. How far away is that appointment? I know it's hard to wait.

[deacongirl]

The Nurtured Heart Approach/Transforming the Difficult Child

http://difficultchild.com/

Really fantastic and could make a big difference.

[mo2]

The Nurtured Heart Approach/Transforming the Difficult Child

http://difficultchild.com/

Really fantastic and could make a big difference.

 

 

Is this a Christian book? I checked the website but couldn't find an answer.

[PeterPan]

The Nurtured Heart Approach/Transforming the Difficult Child

http://difficultchild.com/

Really fantastic and could make a big difference.

 

Interesting! I found it available through ILL, so we'll see how it turns out. There are very few discipline books I read, but I think books where people give you ways to talk to your dc and understand your child, are good. In that sense good parenting is good parenting. Sometimes people who believe differently than me can still have good insights into why kids do what they do and how to help them. I also find it balances the harder line that can backfire with some kids. I already know what kids *need* to do lol. I just appreciate help with getting them to do what they need to do when it's hard (unusually, abnormally hard) for them to do it. In that sense, I don't think Christians have cornered the market. :)

[mo2]

In that sense, I don't think Christians have cornered the market. :)

 

 

I'm actually not Christian, which is why I asked. I wouldn't completely disregard a book just because it was written by a Christian, but if it was laden with Scripture on every page, I probably wouldn't go for it. :001_smile:

 

I'm going to have to purchase the book if I want to read it. It gets really great reviews on Amazon so it might be worth buying. Maybe you can pop back in and give us a quick review after you've read it?

[PeterPan]

It usually takes several weeks to get ILL books. If you buy it on amazon, you'll have it read before I do. lol

[Mama Pickles]

I found Growing an In-Sync Child: Simple, Fun Activities to Help Every Child Develop, Learn and Grow by Carol Kranowitz and Joye Newman full of lots of activities that parents can do at home to help sensory issues.

[mo2]

I found Growing an In-Sync Child: Simple, Fun Activities to Help Every Child Develop, Learn and Grow by Carol Kranowitz and Joye Newman full of lots of activities that parents can do at home to help sensory issues.

 

You know, I almost bought that at Borders the other day. The store is closing and it was 40% off. Maybe I should have, but instead I bought the 3rd edition of WTM. :D

[Mama Pickles]

Ohh....I think I would have bought that instead too. I liked the book because it gave specific activities to help you with particular parts of your day. Like before bedtime, try these things. Before you go to the grocery store try this. I thought it also explained sensory issues in an easy to understand way. I used to be a special ed teacher so I understood why DS was doing the things he did. DH, not so much. But after reading a few parts over, he got it better.

[LittleIzumi]

You can get more sensory activities set up in the daily "sensory diet" like having an indoor swing & having swing time, a mini tramp & having jump time, your own sensory bin & water table, etc. Brushing was one of dd's faves but you already learned about that! She also nursed for a long time & used the NUK gum brushes & adored those. For dd's rages, she would go into timeout but not as a punishment. No time limit. She would have to finish her rage in her room & when she was calm, then she could come out. She could spend an hour in there screeeeeeeaming at the door before she calmed down, but I think being by herself helped. Energy work/energy necklace are also popular (dd has a necklace with stones that are supposed to calm/balance and it made a huge, visible difference. I was floored). You could try a weighted vest to wear during the day.

[Ember58]

Beyond Consequences by Heather Forbes is fab. She's an adoptive mom and a clinical psychologist so is covering extreme parenting from both angles!

[Guest joye and carol]

We're so glad that you've found our book "Growing an In-Sync Child," helpful in the ways we wanted it to be. Movement is so often overlooked as a simple, easy tool for helping kids to organize themselves, to pay attention, and to cooperate. In an ideal world, we would all have opportunities to move throughout our day. Sometimes we forget that there are ways to move that are not disruptive, but are actually quite beneficial. Most children find pushing, pulling, lifting, or carrying a heavy load to be great fun, and a terrific way to feel helpful and strong.

 

Every time you let your child push the stroller, pull the wagon, lift the laundry basket, or carry groceries, you are growing an in-sync child.

[kathkath]

The Nurtured Heart Approach/Transforming the Difficult Child

http://difficultchild.com/

Really fantastic and could make a big difference.

 

ditto!

 

There is a christian speaking at the Cincinnati convention who has written a Christian book about it. I forget what it is called or who she is but you can look at the midwest convention speaker info.